Welcome to Nikonians Cagger We know about a green shift? I have a D800 and know many people with them and none report a problem with green cast. Do you have it on yours, how many have you seen with this problem?
I think you will be better served by not taking anything written by KR too seriously. He admits to posting comments that are not true and finds his income increase every time he makes a controversial statement since others link to his blog.
A couple of weeks ago I was talking to a professional photographer who shoots all our company functions. He has a D800. He spoke about the green cast on the camera display on the back, and displayed a picture that he had just shot indoors under fluorescent lighting. The picture had a slightly greenish hue.
I cannot speak to whether he had his white balance set properly - I didn't quizz him on that. But there was a definite slight greenish cast to the picture.
>Let's talk about green-shift. You haven't expereinced it. Have others?
IIRC there was a demonstrated green shift on the rear display. Nikon's answer was that the color rendering on the rear display was different but more accurate on D4 & D800.
Regardless of whether this color cast exists, whether or not it's an actual problem is an entirely different issue. Fact is, this has no effect whatsoever on recorded images (except those taken of the back of the camera, I guess.) This "issue" therefore gets more traction with those who are looking to drum up controversy (wink, wink) and Canon fanboys who want to bash anything Nikon. I doubt you find much hand-wringing about this from people who use their camera for actual picture taking.
If it's a concern of yours, then it's certainly a legitimate question to ask here. But given what I said, I hope you can see how raising this issue, along with a link to KR, would be met with a negative reaction.
>I was hoping that this wouldn't degenerate into an anti-Rockwell thread.
It would have been a good idea then, is start with a more reputable source for your info.
Let's talk about green-shift. You haven't expereinced it. > Have others? > >IIRC there was a demonstrated green shift on the rear display. >Nikon's answer was that the color rendering on the rear >display was different but more accurate on D4 & D800. > >Regardless of whether this color cast exists, whether or not >it's an actual problem is an entirely different issue. Fact >is, this has no effect whatsoever on recorded images (except >those taken of the back of the camera, I guess.) This >"issue" therefore gets more traction with those who >are looking to drum up controversy (wink, wink) and Canon >fanboys who want to bash anything Nikon. I doubt you find much >hand-wringing about this from people who use their camera for >actual picture taking. > >If it's a concern of yours, then it's certainly a legitimate >question to ask here. But given what I said, I hope you can >see how raising this issue, along with a link to KR, would be >met with a negative reaction. > >>I was hoping that this wouldn't degenerate into an >anti-Rockwell thread. > >It would have been a good idea then, is start with a more >reputable source for your info. ******************************************************
On that basis that KR now seems to have a D600, it seems to be that if he sees a greenshift on the screen and his images then that means at least one D600 we know of has a problem.
If your own example of a D600 doesn't have that problem then that is interesting because it suggests that KR's camera may merely be defective and that it is not a general problem in design which will need to be fixed by a firmware or hardware adjustment.
We'll see what others say I suppose.
I'm not to sure why you want to express wink winks and fanboys etc.
I've shot Nikon for more than 20 years but I don't slag off Canon, or Canon photogs.
I'm trying to decide whether this is the moment to go back to FF at a price that I can afford. Seems fair enough to me.
Good advice! KR sure did ever fall in love with his new D600 though . . . .
"The Nikon D600 packs unrivalled technical image quality into the smallest full-frame digital camera ever from Nikon.
"D600 images can be astounding, while the D600 is also inexpensive, small and light. The Nikon D600 is very quiet and refined. The D600 is a little quieter than the D800, and much quieter than the D4. All have "Quiet" modes, but none work very well for general use.
"The Nikon D600 is Nikon's best FX (full-frame) camera regardless of price because its image quality is as good or better then the D800, D800E and D4, and it has superior ergonomics to any of them. Seeing how the D600 is also Nikon's lightest and least expensive FX camera, the choice is obvious."
In other words, for today, KR thinks the D600 is the greatest thing since sliced bread, except that 'green' thing.
P.S. For the record, KR used the word "astounding" twice to describe image quality. For him, that's an 11 on a scale of 10, no? For today, of course . . .
As I sais on the KR thread, given cameras of similar output and build quality, he always gushes about the camera that is smaller and lighter. To be honest, I can't fault him for that. When I am lugging around my big cameras, and big glass, I OFTEN wish there was a smaller and lighter solution.
That said, he does seem to be rater slight of build, and likely has very small hands. That should temper any comments of his about ergonomics.
>Good advice! >KR sure did ever fall in love with his new D600 though . . . .
Fri 28-Sep-12 11:19 PM | edited Sat 29-Sep-12 07:01 AM by briantilley
I don't think that I have missed your meaning at all - and believe me, I haven't been tricked by bloggers.
I'm sorry that you allow yourself to be derailed by your dislike/distrust of a particular individual. Tell us about your D600 anyway. You haven't found a greenshift. How do you find the camera generally?
> >I don't think that I have missed your meaning at all - and >believe me, I haven't been tricked by bloggers. > >I'm sorry that you allow yourself to be derailed by your >dislike/distrust of a particular individual. >Tell us about your D600 anyway. You haven't found a >greenshift. How do you find the camera generally?
Give it some time, and you've eventually get my full meaning.
I'm shooting a D800 here. I looked at D600 and decided it didn't fit my needs. I have seen no issue with a green cast with my D800. Image quality is mind-blowing.
Just remember that these cameras are very complex instruments, and often we will find things just because we're looking for them, without a good understanding of cause and effect.
> > >> >>Can you actually link to a post of mine where I talk >>authoritatively about the D600? Quote some text maybe? >> > >No I can't find anywhere where you talk authoritatively about >the D600
I'd be happy to discuss why I think KR's "green shift" comment is irrelevant and misleading, but I came into this tread wanting to clarify a comment (that seems to have been edited away) that this issue also existed on D800. I did so (I believe) with complete civility, and frankly feel my comment was met with nothing but snarky arguments. If the goal here is to simply argue about camera equipment, then I'll let you have at it. If there's some interest in discussing photography issues, then possibly I can help.
I can promise you one thing, that because Mr. Rockwell said the camera has a green shift, we'll be dealing for months or years here with inexperienced users who crank up their saturation settings at his recommendation, take a picture of a field of grass, then come complain here that it's too green. Or they'll follow his AWB+M1 setting and complain here that all their pictures are purple, not realizing that's what M1+massive saturation does. I've been helping solve these kind of problems here for over 6 years, since the D70 and D50 days. You may feel there's an unreasonable backlash against stuff said on that site, but trust me, it's a build-up of years and years of experience dealing with beginners who take his stuff as gospel, without realizing that a lot of it is there simply to create controversy.
I have a D600 (and D800) and I don't see any green shift. There is a slight difference in the LCD image - but it does not appear green to me.
The comments from Larry and others are accurate - you would not use the LCD for critical color, it can be adjusted, the image may not reflect the LCD, and adjusting the image color to fix your LCD to personal taste is heading down a really wrong path.
Color from the D600 is better than earlier cameras. The new generation of cameras and processors seems to get more out of the image sensor - not just low light performance but better dynamic range and color at low ISO levels. DxOMark is the bet source of sensor information I've seen. They don't get into anything about the LCD display since it is not relevant to the final image.
I don't have a D600 but was/am thinking about getting one as a second body later... May end up getting another D800 though when the time comes. Anyways, my D800E seems to need the slight M1-2 shift as KR has suggested to get better colors for me. I don't see it as an issue, just something to be aware of is all. Now if the D600 shows the same thing, then make the adjustment and see if it produces better colors to your taste... I think this green cast "issue" would need to be tested in a studio with a color checker and verified if there is a slight color shift in images... If not then it just comes down to personal preferences..... If the D600 checks all or most of your wants, then don't hesitate to get one. Should be a great camera for all those that have and will buy one.....
Does it really matter whether you agree with Ken Rockwell or not? If he's full of hot air, then your D600 will be fine. If he is right, then dial in his compensation recommendation and... you'll be fine. Either way, you'll be fine.
My first Nikon DSLR (a 2005 D50 that I still use for snapshots) slightly overexposed to my taste in flash mode. So, I always leave flash compensation at -1/3 stop, and everything is fine. That is why compensation controls exist, because we all have a different eye, and are trying to achieve different things.
I actually like and enjoy reading Rockwell's site. But, remember that while he's not the devil, he evaluates EVERYTHING he reviews only based on his own personal tastes and opinions. You either agree with him,...or you're wrong. I am quite certain that his D600 has a green tint right out of the box - compared to what he thinks a right out of the box image should look like. To any of us, the image on his camera might appear exactly as we think it should.
I would hazard a guess that the only green shift most will experience with this camera is the same one we always experience: the shift of dollars from buyer to seller. From the rocking of the cradle to the rolling of the hearse, the going up was worth the coming down
Sun 30-Sep-12 11:15 AM | edited Sun 30-Sep-12 11:22 AM by ericbowles
There were some early complaints about the D800 LCD that it had a greenish tint. Nikon indicated the color was true, but I believe it was tweaked in the firmware update. There was no impact on the actual image.
While there may be a slight color tint to the D600 - I have not seen it. The LCD looks fine to me.
The color in the LCD is not intended to be exact or the best the camera can produce. Keep in mind the image viewed in the LCD is a small JPEG using whatever camera settings are set in the camera. If the photographer is like many and ignores white balance in favor of a post processing WB, that error is reflected in the LCD image. My guess is you are seeing poor WB from someone who is shooting RAW and applying a WB in post.
A slight green tint to an image helps to keep faces and skin from looking too red - a common error. The D600 and D800 provide the ability to choose a warm or normal/cool Auto WB as well as other options.
All in all I don't see Rockwell's review as being too bad. He has his own preferences and picks out some minor drawbacks. Rockwell does a lot of snapshots and appropriately uses auto settings and and do it all lenses for those shots. Most photographers shoot a lot more snapshots than commercial or art images. But he likes the camera a lot and recommends it. Sounds like a winner to me.
Still deep in play mode with my D600, but, as Eric points out, there is a setting under Auto WB for preserving warm feel from indoor lighting, which I have been experimenting with this weekend, along with playing with ISO in all variations of lighting and lack of lighting - I'm not used to being able to shoot in such low light and to get such good results. I haven't seen the green shift, but my color perceptions are a bit skewed sometimes.
I don't think KR's review is bad either - I was just poking fun in another thread. While still too early to tell, his declared love for the D600 as being the right combination of technologies for those considering the move to FX, seems to be a sound observation.
But, so much more experimenting and playing to do to really see what this D600 can do . . . .
One of the biggest practical ergonomic improvements for me when I moved from my old D50 to the D90 and then the D7000, was the increased size and accuracy of the LCD. The little LCD on my old D50 is too small, and always looks underexposed. It was worse than useless, because it made my photos look terrible compared to how they looked on my computer. The LCDs on my newer Nikons are big enough to see if a photo is sharp, and give me some idea if my exposure is right. That's pretty much all I need.
That said, when I look at the LCD in the field, I zoom a couple clicks, and am basically just checking focus/sharpness. I also am sometimes trying to see significant differences in white balance, especially indoors in bad lighting. But to be honest, I wouldn't trust the LCD to evaluate color accuracy, it's just too small, and my eyes aren't that good. If my LCD had a "slight" yellow shift, I'm not sure I could tell.
Reading KR and the above, two things strike me. Green shift is very hard to spot, or care about, under all that +6 Orange — except by comparison. More importantly, I believe I have only seen it reported as applying to AWB. Personally, I frequently prefer to shoot at K5200 (for landscapes, unless pushing pre-dawn to 6850 etc.), for I enjoy the variations from 'standard' daylight, just as I *might* not choose to filter Velvia. (RAW leaves room anyhow for experimentation later.) Under tungsten lighting, both accurate and warmed AWB are of course a boon. So Q2: does anyone notice Green shift (downloaded, not on the rear panel) at K5200 in comparison with colours on the D3/700, which is fairly proven? Or is it an ongoing fault only with AWB, one that we have all put up with, especially under tungsten and fluorescent, until even this year's Firmware upgrades?