Fri 17-Feb-12 05:49 PM | edited Fri 17-Feb-12 05:49 PM by Gator Bob
This tech guide alone is worth the price of admission to Nikonians. Thank you! I have an 800E on order and this tech guide tells me more about moire and the D800E than I have seen anywhere else. Gator Bob in Gainesville FL D700 & SB800 * D800E on order Nikkors: *14-24 * 28-300 * PC-E 85mm *50mm 1.8 Tamron 90mm Macro
Below are some of the lenses you can use for enhanced sharpness: AF-S NIKKOR 14–24 mm f/2.8G ED AF-S NIKKOR 24–70 mm f/2.8G ED AF-S NIKKOR 70–200 mm f/2.8G ED VR II AF-S NIKKOR 16–35 mm f/4G ED VR AF-S NIKKOR 24–120 mm f/4G ED VR AF-S NIKKOR 200–400 mm f/4G ED VR II AF-S NIKKOR 24 mm f/1.4G ED AF-S NIKKOR 35 mm f/1.4G AF-S NIKKOR 85 mm f/1.4G AF-S NIKKOR 200 mm f/2G ED VR II AF-S NIKKOR 300 mm f/2.8G ED VR II AF-S NIKKOR 400 mm f/2.8G ED VR AF-S NIKKOR 500 mm f/4G ED VR AF-S NIKKOR 600 mm f/4G ED VR AF-S Micro NIKKOR 60 mm f/2.8G ED AF-S VR Micro-Nikkor 105 mm f/2.8G IF-ED ••••••••••••••••
All G lenses, none of the primes with iris ring for video takes. Plus glaring absence of the 50mm, 1.4 is that prone to diffraction too much? Just curious?
Also, the apertures on any (CPU?) lens can be "de clicked" digitally using I believe 1/4 step increments in camera, which may be too cumbersome for cinema folks, but good enough for bi-format stills/video jobs.
Interesting technical guide. A lot of it applies to photography using any advanced DSLR. Good to read.
This statement I don't understand:
The effects of diffraction are partly influenced by the size of the pixels in the camera image sensor...
I suspect this is nothing more than an observation that 100% viewing of a 36 MP image (fixed FX area therefore smaller pixels) is a higher magnification than with lower MP cameras and therefore blur from any source, diffraction or other, will be more noticeable.
It is good that it says the effects of diffraction because certainly diffraction is a function of the lens configuration and not other components in the camera (sensor, film, or other included).
Sat 18-Feb-12 10:16 AM | edited Sat 18-Feb-12 10:48 AM by mbryan777
I pre-ordered a D800 and I have to say that the technical manual has made me a bit nervous about this camera. I have never seen so much emphasis on blur. Fortunately there was a little discussion about using the camera hand held, because I shoot about 70% of my shots hand held. The manual gives the impression that you will get a blurred shot if you don't use a tripod and focus using magnified live view at F8 with just the right lens. It was good to see references to high ISO and low noise in the technical manual, because it looks like we will need to be shooting at higher shutter speeds with this camera. I've been using a D300 since 2007 and rarely gotten a shot that looked blurred. I hope this camera is not limited to the studio or a tripod for landscapes.
I am rather curious about that list of lenses. They are all newer lenses, some with VR and some without (the very fast ones). The paragraph introducing the list talks about "sharpness", rather than "blur" although they are obviously related. Sharpness, however, may be independent of motion. I think the bottom line is that this camera takes everything to a next level at which lenses, computers, technique, knowledge of how your camera works, etc., all need to be at a matching level to get the best out of the camera.
I still think this entire "technical manual" (which it really isn't) is all about "please don't send your camera back to us because you are getting lousy results."
"With cameras like the D800E, which are suited to visually complex subjects, it is important to get as much sharpness from the lens as possible. Contrast at the periphery of the image can generally be increased by choosing an aperture two or three stops from the maximum, although results will vary from lens to lens. Below are some of the lenses you can use for enhanced sharpness:"
AF-S NIKKOR 14–24 mm f/2.8G ED AF-S NIKKOR 24–70 mm f/2.8G ED AF-S NIKKOR 70–200 mm f/2.8G ED VR II AF-S NIKKOR 16–35 mm f/4G ED VR AF-S NIKKOR 24–120 mm f/4G ED VR AF-S NIKKOR 200–400 mm f/4G ED VR II AF-S NIKKOR 24 mm f/1.4G ED AF-S NIKKOR 35 mm f/1.4G AF-S NIKKOR 85 mm f/1.4G AF-S NIKKOR 200 mm f/2G ED VR II AF-S NIKKOR 300 mm f/2.8G ED VR II AF-S NIKKOR 400 mm f/2.8G ED VR AF-S NIKKOR 500 mm f/4G ED VR AF-S NIKKOR 600 mm f/4G ED VR AF-S Micro NIKKOR 60 mm f/2.8G ED AF-S VR Micro-Nikkor 105 mm f/2.8G IF-E
>The lens list is making me nervous... I ordered the D800E >for landscape just to find out that my 17-35 AND my 45 PC-E >are both not on the list...
Well I only own 1 lens on the list. With that being said I have some very good lens that work great on my D7K. I think Nikon is trying to get ahead of the curve after all of the stuff they went through with the D7000.
OK I have edited my posting. At least I am sure about AF-S 17-35/2.8D, Tessar MAY have telecentricity problem with smaller photosites. But I am afraid the main purpose of the list is to sell more latest and greatest to us (as if we were not saving every penny for NAS). Where are extremely sharp 105/2 DC and 135/2 DС?
>OK I have edited my posting. At least I am sure about AF-S >17-35/2.8D, Tessar MAY have telecentricity problem with >smaller photosites. But I am afraid the main purpose of the >list is to sell more latest and greatest to us (as if we were >not saving every penny for NAS). Where are extremely sharp >105/2 DC and 135/2 DС? **********************************************************************
I agree with you there! Just where are these DC lens? I own both, and there cannot be a sharper lens than either of these two. Perry
I think this will be an issue if you view or print close to 100%. I don't think it will be noticeable for smaller prints or if only minor cropping is needed. I could be wrong but I don't think the issue would be different in a 16 MP crop sensor.
Sat 18-Feb-12 04:07 PM | edited Sat 18-Feb-12 04:37 PM by Benkoop
Indeed, I didn't pay notice to that statement - but it is strange. Could it be related to the concern many gave words to the last days that moire is very hard to handle in video? Is Nikon saying: moire is not a problem in video? Could it be that the software in the camera takes care for that?
A photographer who is using good technique today, and know the strengths and weaknesses of his lenses and uses them accordingly (no matter what those lenses are) will be just fine with the D800. Yes it will require top notch technique to make full use of 36MP and to see a noticeable improvement over 12MP (and why else would anybody upgrade to 36MP if not to improve his results).
Nikon published this guide as a precaution against casual users who will shoot this new camera with something like the 24-120/3.5-5.6 lens wide open and hand-held at 1/20s and then look at the image corner at 100% crop at his monitor, and then complain, post threads, return the camera or send it to Nikon service for adjustment.
As for the lens list, these are just examples of lenses that will work well with the D800. And I also detect a bit of marketing here - why not encourage a D800 buyer to also buy some new Nikon lenses? Once the camera is out, this list will be very easy to disprove by shooting some $50 lens (like the Nikon 50mm f/1.8 AI) which at f/8 will without any doubt provide stunning resolution even for 36MP. Or if you want to "splurge" invest in the Nikon 50mm f/1.8G which at $220 will out-resolve this and future even higher MP bodies.
Jumping in on this chat, am somewhat concerned. Have a D800 on order, upgrading from D300 (want to transition to FX), with principal lens the 24-120/F4. Most pictures taken are hand held. Do I need to employ live view to get non-blurry images, or can a technique using auto ISO, using a "good" aperture setting result, and good hand hold technique result in good/sharp images? Or am I just overanalyzing this? Thanks
OK, here is my take on this. I also have the 24-120 F4 and I'm also concerned that I may not get as sharp images from the D800 as I do on my D700. But I think it's how you determine what sharp is and what media you are outputting to. Most of my shots end up on the internet and a few get burnt to a disc at hi-res for future printing. I'm not too worried about the internet shots, I'm sure I'll get nice crisp looking images from the D800 after downsizing. As for the hi-res printable images, I'll have to be more careful when taking these. On my D700 I can get away with shooting hand held images at 1/100 second at 100mm without the VR on, but I doubt I'll get away with it on the D800. I think with good hand holding technique and a higher shutter speed than I'd normally use will be the ticket with the D800. I shoot a lot of models with off camera speedlights at focal lengths between 24mm and 150mm (my 24-120 F4 is my go to lens for this) and I don't think I'll have to change much here. I normally shoot at 1/200 second for indoor/studio work and rarely go below 1/100 second for outdoor shoots, depending on ambient light. I have no intentions of using a tripod for the model shoots, they are moving just as much as I am (shake wise) and the flash "should" help freeze any minor movement. I will start off shooting the D800 like a DX camera, where shutter speed should be at least 1.5 x the focal length or higher. I very rarely use a tripod and I'd like to keep it that way! But when I do use the tripod, I normally use a shutter release cable and exposure delay mode and I'm sure this will work just as well on the D800.
The way I see it is, I have the D800 on pre-order and I do intend taking delivery of it. So I will learn how to use it properly and how to get the best out of it.