I recently started uploading some photos to CVS and Walgreens for processing. Photos were taken with my Nikon D7000. I have run into something I am sure you can help me with. Unless the photo is of a small number of people (single and very small group portraits), when I submit them online the photos upload fine, BUT the several of the photos are cropped big time when trying to print through the online services but look fine on my computer screen. As I am still relatively new to photography, I am obviously missing something and I want to try to not make the same mistakes again when I go to shoot photography. So, what am I missing here?
Wed 22-Aug-12 10:00 AM | edited Wed 22-Aug-12 01:56 PM by MrDucky
Sorry I didn't mean to ignore you post. I didn't see it until just now. *My bad*
Yes, I now see the error of my ways with Walmart, CVS, and Walgreens. I am trying to reach out to other print shops trying to use their services. I 'thought' CVS and Walgreens would be fine for my needs.
For more important work I use either Bay Photo or White House Custom Color (WHCC). For quick turnaround at cheaper pricing, I use AdoramaPix or EZPrint. There are many other quality labs out there like BWC (which I've used in the past), Black River Imaging, Miller/Mpix, etc.
When I do sports image prints, it's usually 8x10 or 16x20. However, portrait work can get quite large. I just ordered a 20x30 from WHCC for an in-store display.
Thanks for that information I have signed up for WHCC today and need to make a couple of edits before I upload my 5 test photos.
I am also a member of a local camera club (it's a small one and there's only about 5 people who show up for the monthly meeting, and only 3 people who go on the field trips), and I will see what they are doing to print their photos as well.
Although unrelated to this post, I do need to work on getting a faster lens that what I have. There's a person who lives about 20mins from me who is into sports photography. He shoots with Canon, but told me I can tag along with him on some of sporting events at the local high schools. I definitely want faster glass for that.
More than likely it has to do with the aspect ratio and print options you selected for printing.
Let's say you have a photo with people across the entire photo and the aspect ratio (height to width) is 4x6. If you ask the printer for an 8x10 photo and don't select to keep the original height to width aspect ratio, the new photo will have a bit chopped off of each side in order to conform to the new aspect ratio. If you select to keep the original aspect ratio, there will be blank spaces above and below the photo, but the entire photo will be printed.
Hope that explains it.
"Red is gray and yellow white, but we decide which is right ....and which is an illusion"
Sun 19-Aug-12 11:37 AM | edited Sun 19-Aug-12 11:37 AM by aolander
As Larry pointed out, the ratio of width to height of your camera's sensor is 3:2. Any prints made to that same aspect ratio, such as 4 x 6, 6 x 9, 8 x 12, etc., will print full frame. If you want a 5 x 7, 8 x 10, etc., some cropping will occur on the long side. If you know ahead of time that you will be printing 8 x 10, leave yourself some room to allow for cropping later. To get exactly what you want in a print that is cropped, crop it yourself before sending it to the printer.
So my sensor has a 3:2 ratio. I didn't realize that but it makes a lot of sense. So to leave myself some room I probably should zoom out some and/or move myself away from my subject? I wish the camera had a internal display so I can see it when I go to take a photograph. But now I know I should take take the photo with some kind of clearance on either side to allow me to make those adjustments later and adjust before submitting.
Now my next question is, is there a Nikon camera internal's ratio which lends itself somewhat better to printing photos without having to do cropping beforehand?
Thanks again for everything as I am learning so much!
>> I wish the camera had a internal display so I can see it >when I go to take a photograph. > >Maybe I not reading this correctly, but what about the >viewfinder? > >Rocky
Sorry about that Rocky. What I meant to say was, now that I know about the ratio, I was hoping that within the internal eyepiece or back screen, that it could show the ratio lines internal so when you take the photo you could see closer to a 'print' size of 4x6, 5x7, 8x10, etc. I see now that it was worded badly... heh...
I believe some Nikon cameras, like the D3, etc., can be set to crop in-camera to 4:5. The viewfinder would then show the reduced image size. I don't know the specifics as I don't own anything like the D3.
>I believe some Nikon cameras, like the D3, etc., can be set >to crop in-camera to 4:5. The viewfinder would then show the >reduced image size. I don't know the specifics as I don't own >anything like the D3.
Ahhh... ok.... thanks for that info...
I will have to make the adjustments as I take the photos.... I will do some 'test' shots to get a better feel for what can happen when I go to print.
>will do some 'test' shots to get a better feel for what can >happen when I go to print. >
Actually when using a lab it's best to edit the pictures exactly as you want to remove as much variability from the equation.
So you should be cropping the image yourself to the proper aspect ratio before sending. Just remember to edit then do a save as renaming the image so that you leave the original as is and have a different saved copy for sending to the print lab. When doing that you should have no surprises with missing people.
> >>will do some 'test' shots to get a better feel for what >can >>happen when I go to print. >> > >Actually when using a lab it's best to edit the pictures >exactly as you want to remove as much variability from the >equation. > >So you should be cropping the image yourself to the proper >aspect ratio before sending. Just remember to edit then do a >save as renaming the image so that you leave the original as >is and have a different saved copy for sending to the print >lab. When doing that you should have no surprises with missing >people. > >Pete
Thanks Pete. I will certainly do just that in the future. It was my very first times doing this and although I have printed photos before using my own printer and home, I just told it to print from within Adobe Photoshop with a shrink to fit option or something like that.
I was trying to save some money by printing using higher quality printers that the labs might have.
I just thought it was going to be as simple as uploading the photo and that be it... man oh man was I so wrong..... heh...
You have to set the size of the photo to match the print size. If you have a Costco membership try theirs, they show you exactly how its going to crop and allows you to interact with it
heres an extreme case
say you want a panorama printed (long and thin) and you want it 30 inches long
at Costco a standard size is 30x20
You have to put the long and thin picture onto a 30 x 20 canvas so it prints right. You can't ask them to print the long and thin without it or it will auto resize to the height and you get one section of the pano printed = ####
>You have to set the size of the photo to match the print >size. If you have a Costco membership try theirs, they show >you exactly how its going to crop and allows you to interact >with it > >heres an extreme case > >say you want a panorama printed (long and thin) and you want >it 30 inches long > >at Costco a standard size is 30x20 > >You have to put the long and thin picture onto a 30 x 20 >canvas so it prints right. You can't ask them to print the >long and thin without it or it will auto resize to the height >and you get one section of the pano printed = ####
No Costco nearby me But I do get the jest of what you are saying though
The Katzeye does offer an option that does what you're asking for - show crop lines for 8x10. Before spending that money, I'd suggest a different approach: crop your photos to sizes that fit the subject matter, then choose a print size to match your crop. Cropping to match your print size puts the cart before the horse, and composing to that ratio will have you automatically discarding 17% of your camera's pixels.
You'll find the lower-end labs will offer "classic" print sizes which are 4x6 5x7 8x10 11x14 16x20. Of these, only 4x6 matches your camera, and that's very small. Better printers will offer you other options which match your camera's 2:3 native ratio: 4x6 6x9 8x12 10x15 12x18 16x24 20x30 etc. However, you may find that some subjects fit better to the more-square 4:5 ratios 8x10 11x14 16x20, and good printers will offer these too. Generally I find the 2:3 ratios work better for scenics and some group shots, and 4:5 ratios work well for portraits. Generally though, you'll know when your subject is well suited to 4:5 because there will be unused space on the long side already waiting to be cropped
So, my suggestion is crop and print to the size that best suits your subject, and find a printer who can print whatever size you want (www.whcc.com) and don't worry about crop lines in your viewfinder unless you plan to specialize in portraits or something.
You'll find the same challenge when you try to frame a print, that the mat openings at your local cheap frame outlet will follow those same classic sizes 4x6 5x7 8x10 11x14 16x20. In this case find a good frame outlet that supports more sizes (www.framedestination.com).
Thanks a lot for this information Larry. I have submitted a request to become a client at www.whcc.com. I will await their reply. Also, I am going to try the other sites as well that both you and other members have posted. This is an awesome community!
SmugMug (www.smugmug.com) has partnerships with several pro-quality labs. In addition, their website allows you to easily and accurately control the precise cropping based on the print size you selected.
To be honest though, I have not did much cropping. I had been trying to take the photos directly with the cam. It seems now though that I had better get used to doing some cropping as now I really want to get good prints, and like you say a crop can sometimes turn a photo into a masterpiece
I agree with (the other) Larry that cropping can sometimes save an otherwise so-so photo, and I've certainly done this, but I'll add that when I find myself having to do this, I consider it covering a mistake made in the field, and take it as a learning opportunity to compose more carefully "in the moment".
There are exceptions of course, where your subject just fits a different aspect ratio than 2:3, or things like wildlife where you can never get close enough or have a long enough lens. But in cases where I'm not focal-length challenged, I try my best to compose to all 4 corners of the viewfinder.
Yes for the reason you mentioned in your post, I have in the past refrained from cropping photos and try to get them right while doing the photo shoot.
Although I am still relatively new to this, I have been taught to not delete a photo from the camera while in the field, and to do that later if it is a photo that is not used. So, I have not.
To be honest, previously I was never going to consider cropping until now when this problem crept up. Had I not uploaded to the not-so professional sites (walmart, cvs, walgreen, etc), I never knew of this issue.
Like you say though, it is perfect in my situation to adjust from my 2:3 aspect ratio to something else.
I will use crop sparingly to not fall into possible bad habits. I will continue to focus on good composition