Sat 13-Feb-10 03:11 PM | edited Sat 13-Feb-10 03:32 PM by Donald Kahn
After owning my D700 for approximately 9 months, I have not found a reason to set these up. I have “scoped” this topic and found two threads, one from May of 09 and another from December. I have also looked at the spread sheet pinned to the top of this forum and have also looked at the suggested settings published by Out There Images, Inc., which is linked in the pinned thread. Of the over 100 possible settings for each combination, AA, BB, etc., I have counted only 14 that changed between their four different examples, and most of these fourteen were shared by at least two of the other combinations. Four changes dealt with image size, quality and bit depth; one with “Tripod” for Live View; another with “Beep” volume; and still another with “Auto DX Crop.” If you are using a D700, a D3 or a D300, I would be interested to know, (1) why those of you who have not set up your banks haven’t done so, (2) if you have set up your banks, do you find that you use them, and if so, is it because you have set them up for a very different or specific type of shooting, and (3) if you have set them up, do you believe that they save time, or do you find that you have to double check just to make sure that you really have the right settings?
Of the four that dealt with quality, I would think that many of us would always want the same quality whether we’re shooting landscapes, sports, wildlife or whatever. If we do want to change quality, how hard is it, and if we forget to change from RAW to JPEG, what have we really lost other than the time that it takes to convert those images to JPEGS. The only setting that I thought was worthwhile was Active D and that, as well nine other settings, can be added to My Menu.
Sat 13-Feb-10 02:18 PM | edited Sat 13-Feb-10 02:25 PM by Alx
I rarely use the banks ... the main problem with them is that they are not durable. Any change you happen to make to the camera while in a given bank is then casually written over the bank settings, and the originally set-up bank settings are then lost. If the banks' settings could be locked, then they would be alot more useful. I don't mean the camera could not be changed while in a given bank, but the bank settings themselves would be durable, and the user could return to the original bank settings at once, or the camera could be reverted to the bank settings as they were set-up by the user. This is only a firmware issue, and could easily be taken care of in the menu, if Nikon put it in the next firmware upgrade. The banks' settings might then only be changed while in a specific bank setting menu, and be restored by simply re-visiting that menu.
> This is only a firmware issue, and could easily be taken care of in the menu, if Nikon put it in the next firmware upgrade. >The banks' settings might then only be changed while in a specific bank setting menu, and be restored by simply >re-visiting that menu.
We can't know if is just a "firmware issue". You are assuming there is enough memory for Nikon to store 8 "saved" bank settings someplace separate from where they store the 8 active bank settings now.
Do you know for fact that there is enough memory free for that?
Sun 14-Feb-10 02:40 AM | edited Sun 14-Feb-10 02:42 AM by Alx
You are nitpicking the concept. Lets suppose Nikon provided only enough memory to have four banks of settings. Even if you only had two banks, A and B, which were durable, they would be more useful than four that go unused because of this problem. The memory question is not a big deal, you could choose to have four non-durable banks or two durable ones, or one durable one and two non ... and these limits are predicated on the idea that Nikon has only provided only just enough memory for four banks. Another guess, but likely, is that there isn't even available a memory chip that small. The point remains that firmware changes alone could remedy this issue.
>You are nitpicking the concept. Lets suppose Nikon provided >only enough memory to have four banks of settings. Even if >you only had two banks, A and B, which were durable, they >would be more useful than four that go unused because of this >problem. The memory question is not a big deal, you could >choose to have four non-durable banks or two durable ones, or >one durable one and two non ... >and these limits are predicated on the idea that Nikon has >only provided only just enough memory for four banks. Another >guess, but likely, is that there isn't even available a memory >chip that small. >The point remains that firmware changes alone could remedy >this issue.
I am not nit-picking the concept. I am pointing out that you have no reliable information on which to base your guess. You have absolutely no basis from which to say that "The point remains that firmware changes alone could remedy this issue."
You have no idea how much memory is available.
Is it possible that a firmware change is all that is needed? Yes, it is possible. Is it likely? We don't have enough information to say that. Is there enough available memory? Completely unknown to you and me.
It's possible that the D700 hardware is incapable of supporting the changes required to do what you say is a simple firmware change.
Sun 14-Feb-10 03:56 AM | edited Sun 14-Feb-10 04:18 AM by Alx
The memory capacity question was already addressed - it is not necessarily dependant on capacity. The hardware is not a question either. Of course that's an opinion, and it is based on common sense. Since Jan 5 you have averaged six posts a day; is this just a way to keep that up ?
>The memory capacity question was already addressed. It is not necessarily dependant on capacity. The hardware is not a >question either. If you have doubts, you can hang onto your own opinions as long as you like, as can I. Our opinions have >already been stated enough, so if you want the last say, have at it again.
You mean you speculated on the memory capacity question, again. You didn't resolve anything.
I am not expressing an opinion. I am stating a clear fact. That fact is that you do not know enough about the hardware or the programming in the firmware to make a reasonable assumption regarding what can or cannot be done in firmware to solve the issue at hand.
You are making wild guesses and passing them off as facts.
I find the same problem with banks. If I try to set them up with too many sets ahead of time, I run into the problem with the lack of durability...probably a function of my brain's limited capacity for keeping track of things.
However, I do use two different banks: Bank A is set up to make use of the "AF-ON" method of autofocusing as recommended by the Image Doctors. This is what I use 99% of the time. Bank B is set for autofocus by pressing the shutter button. I only use this when I hand my camera to another person not familiar with the AF-ON technique. I have on occasion, used Bank B myself but I can't remember why. I find these two banks very useful for myself. All other settings I make manually in Bank A and then return (if I remember) to "my default."
Sun 14-Feb-10 12:34 PM | edited Sun 14-Feb-10 12:39 PM by JohnA_BatonRouge
> I do use two different banks: Bank A is set up to >make use of the "AF-ON" method of autofocusing as >recommended by the Image Doctors. This is what I use 99% of >the time. Bank B is set for autofocus by pressing the shutter >button. I only use this when I hand my camera to another >person not familiar with the AF-ON technique.> >Bill > Hi, Bill...I also use the AF-ON method of autofocusing; however I my D700 set to "both" - which allows using either the AF-ON or the shutter release. It works perfectly because whichever of the two you engage first (get green light indicator) cannot be overridden by the other as long as your finger remains depressed. No need to switch banks. Regards, John A.
I used these Bank Settings on my D300 and transfered them to my D700.
Banks A and B are the most used and "My Menu" is configured to quickly change between Banks A and B in the Shooting Menu and the Custom Settings. Like asgard I use the current CF card in use to save the settings and load at the beginning of a new days shooting (just in case I altered something and forgot about it overnight etc).
So far, it doesn't appear as if very many people actually use the banks to their fullest extent. I like your idea of using a bank for braketing and Wes' use for flash and commander mode. I thought that there might be some folks who expanded on the bracketing mode for HDR. I'm not sure from these responses whether or not anyone is using AA, BB, etc., or just a Custom Shooting Bank.
I bought the D700 in order to be able to set different shooting & menu banks an shoot RAW on a large (24x36) not too crowded, sensor. When, for different reasons, I do not care about these possibilities, I'm better off with, and get better immediate JPEGs, out of my D90 in Auto setting, without a brick in my hands.
Tue 16-Feb-10 12:41 PM | edited Wed 17-Feb-10 12:09 AM by Alx
For me, the banks are a PITA, having to restore them with memory cards, or re-check them constantly. I re-format my cards after each download, so I would have to keep a separate dedicated card for that, and juggle it around, etc. If you can remember what settings your banks are supposed to contain, and have to spend time to go thru them to check them, you don't need them anyway. More useful than the fluid banks is having the MY MENU feature set-up. Change the Most Recent settings TAB to MY MENU, and the menu items will persist, and can be ordered as you wish.
With Most Recent Settings, they change all the time, whenever you make any setting change, pretty much like the banks do.
But when changed to MY MENU, up to three pages of menu items can be set up and put together in the order you want. If you dedicate one of the buttons on the front, Fn or Preview, to go to the TOP ITEM ON MY MENU, it will immediately open there, and you have instant access to a shortened menu of just those things you selected. Shooting Menu, Custom Settings, Set-up, and Review items can all be mixed and combined in the same MY MENU.
The following is an example of how it can be set-up. It is from my D300S, but the same general idea can be used for the D700, D90, and D300. The first eight items all appear on the same page, and the next page has the next eight, and the last page has the remaining, plus the controls for making changes to the MY MENU.
Set Picture Control ISO sensitivity settings Image Size Image Quality White balance Active D-Lighting e3 Flash cntrl for built-in flash a9 Buikt-in AF-assist illuminator
Virtual horizon Battery info d2 Battery order Shooting menu bank Custom setting bank Primary slot selection Secondary slot selection Live view mode
Display mode Copy image(s)
Your needs will vary, but these are the most important controls to me while I am shooting, and having a shortened and more direct menu to get to them is very useful. Some of the items would otherwise be three layers deep into the full menu.
When accessed thru one of the cusomized front buttons on the camera, the MY MENU opens inside the top item, but one left-rocker tap away is the main MY MENU list showing the first eight items.
Having this feature is way more important than the banks, because this menu persists, won't get written over, and stays the same all the time, unless you specifically re-order it or change items. It will even survive the green-button reset.
It is a different mind-set than relying on banks to have canned settings, you just think about what you want the camera to do, like photographers have done for years, and all the main settings are listed in an order, and faster to access. No, the specific settings you set in each menu item will not persist if you make changes, but they will do the same in the banks as well, while with the MY MENU set-up, the general framework of the menu will stay the same, and keeping track of specific settings is faster and more direct.
NOTE you can use the rear screen display to quickly check thru and change items as well.
Al I agree the My Menu is a great feature. When I moved from D200 to D700 I first just moved the same banks over, but I have tweaked them over time and now have A Point and Shoot (just to hand off camera), B Portrait, C Landscape/Macro,D Action. This allows me to set up different uses of the function buttons,etc based upon the type of shooting I am doing. Most often I am in the C&D banks. But like you I have also set up My Menu for my most used functions. The nice thing about the D700 is that you can customize it to any set up that works for you.
Your post replies and research on ADL were great and definitely appreciated. You're probably exhaused after that thread, but if you have the time, I'm sure that there are a lot of us that would appreciate it if you could expand on your thoughts on the shooting and menu banks. Your replies on the ADL issue made it easy for even the most dense of us to understand. I know that that is true, because I understand ADL perfectly after those posts.
I am exhausted. I think Al is providing good input. When I get a chance I will jot down my thoughts and how I use the banks for anyone who is interested. I ahve come to believe that while it may be OK to start out with the canned spread sheets on settings, ultimately how you use or don't use the banks is really dependent on what you shoot and your style. What works for me may be totally useless to you. But the banks can give you access to settings that you sue often with a few presses of a button. Between the Info button and My Menu on the D700, there is probably less need for the banks than in previous models. I sometimes forget what I have set in each bank, except for some key settings, and since I may change the use of the Function button and DOF button in the various banks it can get confusing, I do agree with Al that the fact that you can't lock down the settings in the banks makes them less useful, but the use of the info button and my menu helps a bit there. Perhaps in future cameras or if possible in future firmware upgrades they will address this, but with all the stuff they cram into these cameras now, I am not sure. Does anyone long for the shutter speed dial,ASA dial and aperture ring as the only controls in the old MF Nikons?
>Does anyone long for the shutter speed dial,ASA dial and aperture> >ring as the only controls in the old MF Nikons?>
Funny you should mention that, Bob, because I muse about that from time to time as well. However, when all is said and done, I like where I am with this outstanding camera - and besides it gives a 70+ guy like me more reason to exercise my surviving neurons!
Incidentally, after a quite a bit of experimenting, I decided that the "bank" thing can be very useful, indeed, for different photographers who use the same camera; but for my purposes, I just can't abide the potential attendant complications - some of which you so aptly cited above. However, I'll qualify my view by acknowledging that I really like the way Wes Montgomery uses the bank concept. I, also, feel very comfortable changing settings only from My Menu, and from the Info button. Does everything I need to do. Life is good! John A.
When Bob mentioned the info button, he reminded me of something that i frequently forget. If you press the info button a second time, you are put into a sort of quick edit mode that lets you quickly modify some of the settings without going into the menus. I forget about it because I switch back and forth between my D700 and D300. The D300 doesn't have this feature on the info button, but the D300s does.
I don't know if that is what Bob was referring to when he mentioned the info button in his last post.
Yes I was. It is really the one stop shopping place where you can set multiple setting and more importantly see what the heck you have already set, like what function did I assign to that function button? It is actually the best new feature and is better than My Menu and Banks as far as I am concerned.
Does >anyone long for the shutter speed dial,ASA dial and aperture >ring as the only controls in the old MF Nikons?
You can still do things that way. For Nikon FM2n mode on your DSLR, when you load your camera card and format it, pretend it is a roll of film, set the ISO appropriately and don't change it for the next 38 pictures. Camera on Manual exposure, Centerweighted meter pattern, Manual Focus. Picture Control on Neutral. The shutter speed wheel is not too far from being a shutter speed dial, but you'll have to imagine the other wheel-dial is an aperture ring on the lens. Have the rear screen turned off, no histograms. No chimping at the pictures, no review until you get the prints from your card at your drugstore. (If you had darkroom access, well ok, you can use your computer to download and P'shop the files. Also consider you might want to run some water from your faucet for about three hours, and throw some cash in the trash for the developer and fixer chems that are going to get wasted. Thank you, digital !