First off AN AVIAITION FORUM!!! Brilliant! Now then how about a thread for piccies of Rarities or just plain (Plane?) Strange Aircraft. Lets get it off to a start! I'll go first! A clue to all American Nikonians, Yours is not the only one! He He He...
As an aside i seem to have cured my Picture posting woes!!! Wuhoo!
No Answer for you Jules, but I've invited our members via the News Blog to join in. I've also added another pair of interesting aircraft to the question -- but I'm sure this one will be answered VERY quickly by USA airshow fans.
My "guess" on yours by the way is a Grummann Hellcat. Edit to add-- I meant to say Grumman Avenger-- -- but then I did an image search for the Avenger and that's wrong too-- I'm clueless. ---Tom
"Shoot everything f/16 at a 100 and let the lab boys worry about it."
Fri 18-Apr-08 05:41 AM | edited Fri 18-Apr-08 05:49 AM by flashdeadline
Hi Armando -- (Thanks for asking on those two red biplanes on opposing flight paths)
I'll skip the hint and just tell ya. They are the Red Eagles (can be easily Googled).
By the Way -- In this rapidly growing free-for all-- can you folks do me a favor and refer back to the author's name on the aircraft you are trying to identify? -- it's getting me confused when I see one shot and the comments for the next three entries refer to an aircraft that was posted a day (or two) before.
Great stuff I'm seeing from everyone-- ---Tom
"Shoot everything f/16 at a 100 and let the lab boys worry about it."
Then it *might* be a an A-36 Invader/Apache - except for the fact that it doesn't have an additional intake on top of the nose. Even if it's advertised as an Invader/Apache, it's lines are more similar to the 51-Bravo...
It is a P-51B painted in the markings of the 487th Fighter Squadron, 352nd Fighter Group (the Bluenosed Bastards of Bodney). It is most likely Princess Elizabeth flown by Lt. William T. Whisner (note the W on the tail). However, the tail no. does not agree with the group's official history.
> >Cheers Jules. > You would have a hard time convincing me that it is not a P-51C. Notice the 4 bladed prop not the three bladed prop used on the Allison powered A-36/P-51A/B models, the exhaust are Merlin (fairing above the round stacks) not Allison (flattened into an oval), the cooling system exit door, 4 guns not 6, placement of the wing hard points, the Normandy invasion paint scheme, and finally ... 325147/HO-W is a P-51C.
I think I finally have the facts. The P-51 in the photo is a C model. Here is the registry info:
43-25147 to civil registry as N51PR. Reregistered G-PSIC Apr 16, 1998 on acquisition by The Fighter Collection, Duxford, England, currently painted as 42-106449.
This aircraft is painted to represent 42-106449 (352nd FG, 487th FS) lost Jun 6, 1944. The 352nd FG history lists this as a B-model named Princess Elizabeth and flown by Lt. Whisner. The plane at Imperial War Museum, Duxford, UK is actually 43-25147.
There are few major differences between B and C models. Both were equipped with the Merlin engine. Early B/C models had four .50 cal Brownings while later ones had six. And as you can tell by the date of loss of 42-106449, B-models served in the invasion and wore the stripes.
At the risk of showing off, it is a 'Gnat' - originally manufactured in the U.K. by Folland, and then by Hawker Siddley. It is in the all yellow colours of the 'Yellowjacks' RAF display team, which later expanded into the Red Arrows that we all know and love.
As you can see, I spent much of the sixties at air displays, trailing around after my Dad, and carrying a very heavy Zenith camera and lens combination. If I can ever get some decent scans together, I will start posting some intriguing items.
Nice one Rob. Yeah, those were taken many years ago at the New England Air Museum in CT with a Nikon N65 if memory serves. At the time, there were still recovering from a horrendous hurricane storm that pretty much smashed up and in some cases totaled a good portion of their outdoor static collection. Most of the outdoor aircraft were in terrible shape - peeling paint, massive corrosion and rust spots. That Gannet was in better shape than most things.
That is an astonishingly beautiful photograph Mike. The dark foreboding sky with the small dapples of light peaking through. The little orange tips of the prop and fuselage are so well lit. I love this shot sir!
I just couldn't look at this great shot with commenting.
I don't know the aircarft but I know it's a slow one
Paul - good eye. It took me quite a while flipping through my old recognition books and Squadron Signals collections before I found the right profile. The telling piece to me is the sloped rear bubble canopy cover for the gunner - very distinct and the length of the canopy itself.
Fri 18-Apr-08 12:54 AM | edited Fri 18-Apr-08 01:20 AM by James23p
I agree according to the USMC aviation history the Buffalo was a fighter famous for its defense(or lack of) of Midway Island, VMF 221 was the squadron. V for vertical, M for marine and F for fighter. They the flew F2A-3 Brewster Buffalos and 7 Gruman F4F's in VMF 221. I do believe Major Parks was the CO and is listed as MIA presumed KIA.
Just to add the letter after the number ie F2A the A stands for Brewster aircraft company. This was common in the 30's and 40's for US naval aircraft it is no longer used as the letter usually now means an updated version ie the F/A 18A, B, C and D models etc.
This was even used in the early jet age ie the A4D Skyhawk, but I think this was close to the end of the manufacturer's designations. I do believe it was changed in 1962 or sometime close to that as the DoD wanted a uniform numbering system for aircraft and the Navy's system was phased out thus the F4H phantom II just became the F-4.
It's been too long since I looked this stuff up, but I think Any F4U-xxx was a Vought-built Corsair. Any FG-xx was Goodyear and any F3A-x was a Brewster. Then Vought started building experimental variants which really tossed model numbers into the blender - i.e., F4U-4C, 4D, 4E, etc. The FG-4 is actually experimental - as far as I know, that would have been a Goodyear built version of Vought's F4U-4 series, but it was the inter-war years between the end of WWII and Korea, so Goodyear's factory capacity was probably viewed as excess.
Brian got it. Cierva Autogyro. Avro licensed the design and built copies in Great Britain in the '30s. This one's exact heritage is unknown, but it resides in at Kermit Week's Fantasy of Flight Museum in Polk City, Florida, near the theme parks.
Fri 18-Apr-08 10:50 AM | edited Fri 18-Apr-08 12:21 PM by jules
In the nicest possible way of course! Le Bourget Museum, if you ever get the chance go! It's full of fascinating stuff... First shot is full of guess whats? Second just gives an idea of whats to see! Cheers Jules.
I saw right off that it is a cabin class, high wing monoplane with a radial engine. Then I confirmed all that by finally noticing the picture of the aircraft stuck on the fuselage just forward of the port wing strut attach point Duh....
But still, big clue notwithstanding, I don't know what it is. Clearly, it is out of the 30's and intended for pax service.
Maybe if someone doesn't come up with someting in a reasonable amount of time you can give a country of origin clue.
As Mike says - you guys are good - it is a Stinson - 0-49 as a matter of fact - by the time of this post it should have been finished being re-built. I got a backstage tour then of Fantasy of Flight's restoration and machine shop - all sorts of wonderful birds back there being restored one panel at a time...
I can see that now. Your right, I should have looked closer.
Funny that it should be that particular C-121. I work at Fort Rucker, AL and that particular plane sat derelict at the Army Aviation Museum for many years. I remember the day they flew it out. Pretty exciting takeoff from a very short field.
>You obviously have a close knowledge of fifties prototype jets >- or maybe you're familiar with this museum..?
In fact, I've never been to the Coventry museum, but I was growing up in the fifties and sixties, and my father bought the aviation magazines light Flight. He took me to my first air display in about 1959 (at Gaydon, not far from Coventry, I think it was...)
>>You obviously have a close knowledge of fifties prototype >jets >>- or maybe you're familiar with this museum..? > >In fact, I've never been to the Coventry museum, but I was >growing up in the fifties and sixties, and my father bought >the aviation magazines light Flight. He took me to my first >air display in about 1959 (at Gaydon, not far from Coventry, I >think it was...)
The Curator for the Vulcan at Coventry used to look after this same plane as one of the ground crew in the RAF. He was telling me how they were once rehoused at Gaydon - although it was a temporary arrangement as they simply couldn't accommodate a plane of that size.
Coventry used to occasionally have an airshow with a very retro theme based heavily around the fifties/sixties - I guess you would have enjoyed this but, sadly, it appears to no longer be economical for them to run it.
The same curator was waxing lyrical about the collection at Cosford so the family are going to be hauled there pretty soon.
Came across this one today which definitely can be filed under 'unusual' - not that I imagine it will confuse any of you lot
Reminds me of the submarine/jet fighter hybrid from Gerry Anderson's UFO.
Incidentally, found shooting in this type of hangar museum very difficult. Clash of artifical light and bright windows, reflections galore, overlapping displays, busy backgrounds etc... not easy at all.
hehe, for an inherently elegant plane the Meteor was really the workhorse for fighter command in the early fifties, and had to put up with a number of variants.
Brian, the cold war exhibition is indeed well worth a visit. if I have a criticism it is that an indoor setting, however well done, makes it hard to really appreciate planes of the scale of the Vulcan and Victor. The whole thing is put together and themed very well though. Interesting building as well...
Your right on both planes. How did you acquire so much knowledge of so may planes?
The 1-16 Rata (nickname meaning "rat") was the world's first single-winged fighter plane with retractable landing gear.
As for the 23 on the U-2/PO-2 tail. The story, as I heard it. There were 23 Russian women pilots that flew the planes at night over the German lines. The became know as the "Night Witches". The female pilots' tactics involved flying into position close to the ground, cutting off their engines and then gliding through a bombing run. They inflicted little damage, but demoralized the Germans by keeping them awake night after night, and by the fact that they were women.
The top photo is of a Do 335 Pfiel. I am not sure if ever became operational but it is a really badass looking aircraft!!! The bottom aircraft is an Arado 234 and I believe it saw limited action during the later part of WW2.
I belive that you are referring to the fact that this aircraft probably had had the original radial engine replaced by an Allison V-12 in-line engine. But, there is no way to tell for sure from these pictures alone. Unless I am missing something, the exhaust stack, cowling configuration, etc., look nearly identical to any other 'D' version pictures I can find.
>I belive that you are referring to the fact that this aircraft >probably had had the original radial engine replaced by an >Allison V-12 in-line engine.
I've been holding off on this one (and I wasn't sure of the answer without a bit of research!), but I think that is correct.
Anyway, the aircraft pictured is one that has been re-engined with an Allison V-1710. One thing that gives it away is the deeper air scoop on the side of the cowling. I believe the guys doing this mod have or will be doing the same with 1 or 2 other similar airframes, so this may not be the only flyable "Dora" for very long.
By the way - the original Junkers Jumo 213 in the FW-190D was actually an inline engine, although the radiator and cowling arrangement made it look a bit like a radial. The earlier 190A models had a radial motor.
Your correct. Although, according to the Heritage Collection this is the only long-nosed Fw 190 D-13 to have survived the war. (If true would it have been "re-engined"?) Supposedly, it entered service in March of 1945 and served with the JG (Jagdgeschwader) 26 wing, with Major Franz Götz as the plane's pilot and the wing's commodore. In May, 1945, after the end of the war, Major Götz flew this D-13 to the RAF base in Flenfburg, Germany, and surrendered it.
As I understand it, the third picture, which shows an addition to the rear fuselage (green area just before tail) is one give away. This was added to compensate for the additional length of the nose.
Brian, do you think this is true? Also, anyone have a picture of a 190-A radial?
I believe this aircraft was re-engined with the Allison fairly recently, in orcer to make it flyable. It is the only D-13 sub-type left, but there are a couple of other D models still around somewhere.
The extra section in the fuselage just forward of the tail was a feature of all the D model (and subsequent) FW-190's. The inline engine of these models was longer than the radial of the A model, and needed a balancing section aft to keep the C of G in the right place. So it is an original fitting, and was not added when the engine was replaced.
Some details of the FW-190 can be found here and at Wikipedia here.
The exhaust stacks are low on the cowling like the Jumo which was an inverted V if memory serves. Where they able to bring the stacks down to preserve the original look? Can anyone tell me how to tell the difference between an FW190D and a TA152? http://www.airtoaircombat.com/detail.asp?id=300
The Ta-152 was a development of the FW-190D, intended for high-altitude duties. Its main distinguishing feature was an increase in wingspan, which is fairly obvious visually when comparing images of the two side-by-side.