I’ve spent 8 months trying to print a reasonable good picture from an Epson Stylus Photo R1800 printer and I’m so frustrated that I think I’m near a brain melt down. I’ve had 3mos downtime from back surgery and could not set for more than 30mins every 2hrs. So the surgery a break from the frustration of color management 101
My original problems were color management (summer 2011) with learning settings for software control vs. printer color. I think that I now have good/ok understanding of the process. But still my colors were all over the chart. Prints are ####, so I’ve moved my process from my laptop to my Desktop, because laptop screens are a weak link in the color management process.
Please know that my quality standards today are currently a “c-“grade level.
I’ve update my monitor to a dell 24” U2410 and purchased the X-Rite i1 Display Pro. I’m getting a load of process errors
1). i1 Profiling calibration process stopped with this error msg “Failed to apply video LUT’S”
2). i1 profiling calibration process stopped, error msg “ADC is not supported”
I have run the i1 Profiler process to completion a few times with no error msgs, BUT now my prints are very orange and I’m getting the subject error msgs. I have re-installed the software and update all drivers dell monitor, MS VISTA, and Epson R1800.
Can the wrong ICC profile make the print/printer significantly orange/redish-yellow? (i.e. ultra vs premium glossy?)
The 1st of March I’m taking one on one training with a local lab. I’m also reading and surfing the web to more knowledge, but I’m at a wall.
Can’t buy success……Any ideas?
As always !!!! Thank you for your time
Don in Michigan
#1. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 0Fri 17-Feb-12 04:12 PM | edited Fri 17-Feb-12 04:14 PM by mklass
If you have your software controlling the printing and Color Management turned off in the printer driver, you're off to a good start.
The errors in your callibration software should be the area of most concern. You don't say what video card you have, but a defective card or driver for the card would certainly cause a problem. I'd focus on getting that to work properly.
Using the wrong paper-printer profile will certainly affect the print, but I don't think using "Ultra Premuim Glossy" vs "Premium Glossy" for Epson papers would result in a significant difference. If it were a glossy profile vs a matte profile, or an Epson profile on a non-Epson Paper, that would be different.
Aside from selecting the proper ICC profile in your photo software are you selecting the recommended paper setting in the printer settings?
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#2. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 1quenton8 Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Fri 17-Feb-12 07:13 PM
From your description, the colour of the prints is not just a tiny bit off but quite a bit off?? Looks REALLY orange? or is just a very slight Orange cast??
If its REALLY off, I would do a quick check to eliminate your monitor.
Take a shot with your camera that results in a nice look on the camera. Copy it to your PC and print it. If its colour is way off, then this is a print/printer-only problem and not related to your monitor.
On the other hand, if what happens is you use post-processing to "fix" the colour, then it may well be your monitor.
#4. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 2Sat 18-Feb-12 03:02 AM
mt prints are way off. so orange it recks the whole print,
so, I'mgoing to looking for some local epson / dell repair person, I would be happy to pay someone to confirm or fix the cord problem
Don from Michigan
#3. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 1Sat 18-Feb-12 02:55 AM | edited Sat 18-Feb-12 03:06 AM by Bug
I have tried to do a few "controled" printing studies. My laptop is wireless to the printer (via the desktop??) The prints from the laptop seem to lighter and blue vs prints via the desktop darker and just very bad color shift.
So, like my posting... I have heard that laptop screens were very poor for color control management so... I moved to my desk top computer New July 2008) Display adapter is ATI Radeon HD 2400 pro and purchased NOV 2011 a new Dell U2410 monitor and i1 display pro for calibration. I'm getting error msg as outlined in this posting plus usb issues from time to time (no puck found)
I do get somewhat better print useing elements9 color control. the monitor is new and seens great out of the box
so can you buy time from epson or dell ?
Don in Michigan
#5. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 3
#7. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 5Sat 18-Feb-12 07:09 PM
I want to thank everyone for helping me with my learning curve.
Called Dell Computers about my new monitor problems, call was free, but I ended up appending over$700 on new video card, hardware warranty, and MS windows ultra 7, however the help was priceless.
#1 The ADC error msg was coming from an outdated video card. The X-Rite profiler was trying to adjust the (ADC, Automatic display control) my video card did not have that feature, so upgraded the video card.
#2. Still don’t understand the video LUTS error msg, but that is stopping me from saving the new profile to file. Hope that the new video card will also solve this problem.
Called Epson, told them my story and was immediately send to level 2 tech support, level 2 tech told my story and he ask for serial number, the recommended local authorize repair locations. Call local repair dealer, told story …$80 to check for problems. I will do this as it sounds like they all heard my gross color issue before.
Epson did offer me $250 off the R3000 model, but sounds like all the photo printers, (K3, 3880, 4000+) all have major black ink waste issues, therefore I think that I’ll stay with my Epson R1800.
I hope that my (ID-bug) experience helps someone, It sure has been a long hard learn curve from learning editing software to printing.
PS. Here is a sample of my problem
Don in Michigan
Attachment#1 (jpg file)
#14. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 5Tue 06-Mar-12 05:35 PM
You were correct !! it was not the monitor, nor video card, nor X-rite software.
I contacted X-rite as you suggested and got outstanding tech support. All my calibration problems was Windows Vista settings.X-rite walked me thru Vista problems and corrections. Tomorrow I'm buying Windows 7 upgrade.
I've learned to manage my color spacing sRGB from camara to edit software and printer color management, with your help, so again thank you
With all this behind me, it is now just me and my Epson R1800.
#6. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 0
Its an easy assumption to make that your monitor or its profile can affect the printed output. However this is incorrect. The monitor profile gives you a consistent standard by which through your editing software you can manually correct image attributes, i.e. colour.
However.... IF you have not made any changes to the image... then the printer will print the same image regardless of what monitor or profile is in use.
I suggest that you make certain the your printer can print its own test page or any test photo image without problem with the colour management set to printer in your software and the correct setting for the Epson paper.
After doing this you can then set the Epson print manager to "Photoshop manages colour" and ensure that you have chosen the correct Epson paper profile.
If only Mozart had had a camera
#8. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 0
I think we need to step back a little and start from scratch so that we can properly diagnose the problem. You are throwing in a lot of variables which makes it a little hard to determine what is really going on here.
For starters you'll need to give us specifics about your print workflow, in you posts I do not see this. Let's also focus on how you print from your desktop using your Dell monitor. I don't recommend that you perform image edits on your laptop since it is very difficult to get consistent color and contrast from a laptop display, even if it is calibrated. I know X-Rite makes there products compatible with laptop calibration but I suspect they do that more out of customer demand than because they consider it sound practice.
Please list for us your operating system and version, the image editing program you routinely print from, and the papers you are using. Try to give us in detail the print workflow settings you are using in your editing program, particularly how you select the ICC paper profile prior to sending the print job and the settings you use in the Epson printer driver.
From the examples you provided I am seeing evidence of clogged nozzles. For one, the extreme red/orange color cast is not something you will see due to a simple profile mismatch or misapplication of color management. Secondly I see some rather pronounced banding. And since it runs across the entire print that is also an indication of print head clogging or damage. Please run a nozzle check and make sure you count each color hatch pattern to make sure all the colors are firing. If you see any breaks in the patterns run cleaning cycles until they all fire and print the patterns completely. After this has been completed I would run a print head alignment just to make sure the print heads are running true. Please refer to the manual on how to do this. It is a relatively simple process and wastes very little ink and paper. If after you have cleared the heads and re-aligned them you are still getting really bad color casts then you should discuss this with Epson and insist on a replacement printer if yours is still under warranty. If however, your prints improve and you think you are still not applying color management properly please report back to the forum and we will be glad to help.
esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography
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#9. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 8Sun 19-Feb-12 05:54 PM
You are totally correct !!! I need to step back and start from scratch. I tend to keep screwing with the all the variables and just hammer at printing process then get frustrated and give up for a few months. I’ve taken a few files to the local photo lab for printing and even purchased a few large prints 16x20, very happy with everything i.e. colors, focus, etc.
So, yes sir, I will re-think and completely document my printing process as well as my editing process.
As far as my Epson R1800 printer, it has been a problem since the day I open the box. I purchased this printer before I had really mastered any good editing software (i.e. CNX2 and Elements9) and after I had taken three Nikonian classes (D200, Flash lighting systems and Capture NX1) I think that my R1800 printer was not turned on for nearly a year after my first back surgery. So after a few years of hit and miss prints, I was ready to trash the printer and take my losses.
However, In my recent research on Epson printers and printer problems, I was taken back with the current design/ink issues on the new family of K3 printers, so for me, it would be better to work with the devil I know (Epson R1800), then buy a new printer that seems to have major ink issues. I hope to haul my R1800 printer to the local Epson repair service guy for a $80 checkup and peace of mind as to who needs fixing (me or the printer) i.e. capability or not.
In the automotive world, the public would never accept cars and trucks engines that used 10 gals of gas to start the engine. If I’m correct it sounds like Epson K3 design group ran out of room to place another ink jet and cartridge needed for glossy vs matt papers. It sounds like people are burning through a lot of black inks.
You and the forum have been very good to help me, please know I how much appreciate both your knowledge and time!!!!
Don in Michigan
#10. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 9Sun 19-Feb-12 06:49 PM
I don't know why you think the newer Epson printers have ink issues, but I think that is bad information.
I had a R1800, which I replaced with a R1900. The 1800 was prone to clogging and wasted lots of ink with all too frequent cleaning cycles. The R-1900 very rarely clogs, even with weeks between uses.
Last fall I added a 3880 to my system. The ink used in switching from gloss to matte has not been an issue at all, although I suppose it would be if you alternated between each print. At this stage, I have yet to replace a cartridge after printing about 100 prints. Right now the Matte and photo black cartridges are about even with the others in terms of remaining ink.
If I were in your shoes, I think I'd take the money I was going to spend on repairing the R1800 and put it toward a R2000.
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#11. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 10Tue 06-Mar-12 03:18 PM
I'm Back from a little vacation in Florida and back to working on my calibration and printer issues.
Regarding Epson printers…. Thank you for your views!!! I do respect your suggestion and will study the Epson R2000.
I have had so many problems with printing that I’m giving up with trying to print a “good” 8x10 of something. As Ernesto suggested, I need to document my process and workflow THEN return to printing when I have a stable process.
I soooo appreciate members like you, Please know that your suggestion on this and other issue keep me from losing all my hair !
Don in Michigan
#13. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 8
Hey Hey Ernesto !!!!
I did It !!!! You have always talked well of X-rite products, so since calibration was one of my 10 open issues regarding color mgt and printing, I purchased the i1 Display Pro and that also added ADC and LUT issues.
to make a long story short I called X-rite support, two menues later I talking to a tech guy and he walked me through the procss for calibration.
My problems was NOT my monitor nor video card !!! the problem was with windows vista settings (i.e. windows defender and changing a color mgt setting in the windows control panel)
X-rite tech support was #1 first class support. I log 5 hrs in two weeks with Dell and got no where... Shame on Dell
God Bless you and now back to my printer issue and Ian from GB.
ADC = auto device control
LUT = look up table
#12. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 0
In reading your post I was moved by your printing pain. As already advised you need to step back, even further, to get some comfort.
Every printer has its own built-in print profile and this is the first thing to try when analysing a problem.
Forget using any photo editing program like photoshop and open a test jpg image that uses the sRGB colour profile in your browser like:
Run a nozzle check on your printer and do not proceed further until one or more nozzle checks produce a perfect check result.
Now print the test image with your printer set to:
(A) printer manages color.
(B) Printer set to best quality
(C) printer set to the type of paper that you are using (preferably when using the same brand of ink as your Printer)
(D) printer set with the type and brand of paper as your printer make.
Your selected monitor colour profile will not affect the resulting print regardless of whether you have used your X-rite.
After doing this do you see a good print? If not then the problem lies with your printer or its ink.
Hope this helps and keep us informed.
If only Mozart had had a camera
#15. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 12Tue 06-Mar-12 05:45 PM
Thank you for your outline and printer checklist!!! I'm unable to pass the nozzle cleaning test after 10-12 cycles.
So tomorrow the R1800 printer and I are going for a little ride to an authorized epson repair dealer for a $60USD check up. I've spent over $60 in the last 6 months on paper and ink.
I will add your posting to my work flow process and let you know how this plays out.
Don in Michigan
#16. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 15dgberg Registered since 25th Aug 2007Wed 07-Mar-12 04:09 PM | edited Thu 08-Mar-12 06:55 PM by dgberg
Just to clarify. You did a nozzle check then ran a clean?
Just wanted to make sure you did not run 10 or 12 straight nozzle checks with no cleans?
#17. "RE: color management and Printing 101" | In response to Reply # 15Wed 07-Mar-12 04:42 PM
Perhaps I'm too late to catch you before you spend money on the printer "check-up".
I suggest you try the following:
Google online for SSC Service utility. Download and install it. You will then see in your taskbar an icon with a little printer. Alternate mouse click on it and select "Head cleaning" then "initial charge". The printer will stop purging after many consecutive cycles.
Switch the printer off overnight then in the morning run a "print nozzle check pattern.
Let us know.
If only Mozart had had a camera