Set up for Photoshop 6 & monitor
I feel so sad and disappointed, since I couldn't get nice print out for both my Nikon 990 images and scanned images. The worst colors are black and dark color like brown. The images' colors look so nice on screen, but so bad on print. I almost cry now because I spent a month on setting up Adobe Gamma, Epson 1200 driver software, Photoshop 6, but I failed, failed and failed.
If anyone has nice prints, please share with me your specific set up so I can use it.
Thanks a lot.
#1. "RE: Set up for Photoshop 6 & monitor" | In response to Reply # 0Sat 24-Mar-01 04:02 PM
I've gone through this kind of thing myself.
You don't say what type of computer and what operating system you're using, and that makes some differences to how you set things up, but you might like to try the following assuming the options I'm referring to are there:
In Windows 98 / 2000 go to the Control Panel, open Printers, right-click your printer and select Properties. On the Colour Management tab check the profile is set to Automatic and there is an appropriate colour profile in the list below.
In the Epson printer driver, set the mode to custom, click the Advanced button and choose ICM colour management.
In the Photoshop print dialog (I'm assuming version 6) choose Printer Colour Management for the Print Space / Profile.
This should give you the closest match between what you see on the screen and what comes out on the printer, although you may need to adjust the image somewhat with curves to lighten the mid-tones: my experience is that prints tend to look a bit dark otherwise.
If your OS doesn't have built-in colour management (e.g. Windows NT4) so you don't get the ICM option on the advanced dialog then try using PhotoEnhance with the Tone set to Normal, Effect set to None and Digital Camera Correction off. This won't be as colour accurate, and in particular will tend to 'flatten' a very contrasty photo, but can still produce worthwhile results.
Hope that's all some help,
#2. "RE: Set up for Photoshop 6 & monitor" | In response to Reply # 1Sat 24-Mar-01 05:50 PM
LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-01 AT 10:04 PM (GMT)
LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-01 AT 10:00 PM (GMT)
I use Windows 98. I also edit my photos with levels and curves.I totally like the photos on screen. Yet, I have trouble with people's hair colors and dark shade if I take the photos indoor at night time. At one time, I could adjust the hair color to the level that I like its print, but the skintone looked redish. Now I forget the setting.
Could you tell me how you set up Photoshop 6 so it can work well with the Epson 1200 printer?
Do I need to increase or decrease color (those cyan, magenta, yellow...) in the Epson printer driver to red rid of noise in the shadows?
May it be the Epson photo glossy paper that causes the problem? Could you suggest any matt paper brandname that I can use with my Epson printer? (I tried HP matt and Kodak matt, but the ink seemed not to dry)
Please tell me anything that could help!
#3. "RE: Set up for Photoshop 6 & monitor" | In response to Reply # 2shorbo Basic MemberSat 24-Mar-01 11:05 PM
Take a look at the Epson Premium Luster Photo Paper - I've become a big fan of this, even though I use it with my Canon BJC-8200 printer, not an Epson...
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#4. "RE: Set up for Photoshop 6 & monitor" | In response to Reply # 2Sun 25-Mar-01 12:04 PM
It's difficult for me to give you specific advice here since I don't have the same camera / printer combination you do - I use a D1 and an Epson 2000P - and, of course, I can't get to see your photos and prints to understand just what's going wrong.
The method of using printer colour management with an ICM profile is the best starting point since this should give you the best match between what you see on the screen and what comes out on the printer.
If you have a flat-bed type scanner it's possible to go one stage further and generate custom ICM profiles for your printer using software such as Monaco EZColor (http://www.monacosystems.com) or Praxisoft wiziWYG (http://www.praxisoft.com) but these aren't especially cheap to buy.
Regarding noise in the shadows: be careful not to push darker tones too much when using levels and/or curves. All digital cameras produce a certain amount of noise and it's quite easy to make this visible if you adjust the levels too far.
I wouldn't have thought that your choice of paper was causing any real problems: generally it's best to stick with the inks and papers designed for your printer.
There are some detailed notes on setting up Photoshop and the Epson 1200 at: http://www.ian.lyons.btinternet.co.uk/photo_1200/using_the_photo_1200.htm which might be of some help to you.
Sorry I can't give you a definitive answer. If it's any comfort to you I had a terrible time getting my 2000P to produce consistently good colour when I first started using it, and I've never found any 'magic' process that will correct any photo: I still frequently need to adjust things by hand to get the best possible prints.
#5. "RE: Set up for Photoshop 6 & monitor" | In response to Reply # 2Mon 26-Mar-01 02:09 PM
I second Alan's suggestion that you go to Ian Lyon's site and follow his directions closely. It sounds like you've got calibration problems with your setup and you may be working in the wrong colorspace as well. Ian's site can at least get you to a good basic setup.
Once you have a good baseline setup, then you can look into color profiling software like Monaco's. However, this can be a confusing process on its own and I'd only recommend it if you need to create profiles for scanners. Adobe gamma works just as well for monitor calibration, and your printer driver comes with profiles for Epson paper.
One other thing- do not experiment at this stage with anything but Epson paper (and inks) and be sure you choose the right paper type when you're printing via the Epson driver. Non Epson paper can sometimes work very poorly with your printer and you need to eliminate this variable until you know you have a reliable setup.
#14. "RE: Set up for Photoshop 6 & monitor" | In response to Reply # 1laboy Registered since 05th Jul 2002Sun 21-Jul-02 04:01 PM
Hi Alan, I've been reading the threads on printing, Looking for a solution to my printing problems with my setup, I'm running Windows XP pro Which I believe according to Microsoft is based on the NT4 system with Photoshop 7.0 and Epson 870 and only use Epson paper and inks. After reading your threads on setting up the printer driver and Photoshop color management, I've been getting amazing results from my prints, The detail is perfect except for a color cast on the prints. The only way I could explain it is lack of pink or to much green on the prints, Weird affect almost as if the picture was taken in a room with florescent lights but the pictures are all done with natural light. When I display the pictures on my CP995 and on my monitor side by side, they look equaly the same without the color cast I get on the prints. Alan what else could I be doing wrong or is their some correction to this problem. Hope you could help.
#6. "I get better results now!" | In response to Reply # 0
Alan, Shorbo, BJ and Mike...
Thank you for your help. This forum is so helpful to me. I followed all of your suggestions and also Ian Lyons' and my prints look better now. Plus, I find out that the setting of the camera for each specific pose is also important.
It is just the beginning for me. I am so excited.
Thank you again and I wish you the best.
#8. "RE: I get better results now!" | In response to Reply # 6Wed 28-Mar-01 04:19 PM
Glad we could help.
Since you mention camera settings, and that you'd had some noise problems, here's a suggestion that might help out a bit more: after you've taken a photo try looking at the image histogram in playback mode.
Obviously what you see will depend on your subject, but as a general rule I've found that if the data is all concentrated in a narrow band or if it's heavily skewed towards the dark or bright ends of the scale then you'll either get a dull looking print (since you don't have the full dynamic range available) or if you use Photoshop to correct things it'll tend to exaggerate any noise.
So if you do see something like that - and you've got the chance - try re-shooting with some appropriate exposure compensation. It's always best to fix that sort of thing when you take the photo... rather than doing it in Photoshop!
#9. "Preview & Paper type" | In response to Reply # 8Thu 29-Mar-01 11:02 PM
You are right. I did not pay attention at all after the photo is taken (but I did look at the LCD carefully before hitting the shutter). I did not see "histogram" in the menu under play back mode (my 990 probably does not have "histogram"). But thanks for the tip, I should look at the photo after taking it, so I would have a chance to retake it! Great! That is an advantage to the digital camera as compared with the film one.
Now, I am confused with the paper types that I can use. I wonder if my Epson 1200 can use "Premium Luster photo paper", "semi-glossy photo paper", as well as premium glossy/matte paper". I went to store and look at the paper packages; none of them say they can be used with my Epson 1200. How can I use those types of paper, I like them because they look like real photo paper?
When I first bought "Matte heavy weight paper", I did not know for sure that I could use it with my printer because the package just stated "for use with inkjet printer"; but inside, there is a guide for choosing media type in my printer driver. That is how I know I can use matte heavy weight paper. I want to use Luster, semi-glossy and premium types of paper, but do not want to sell my epson cheap nor buy a new model of Epson (Student's budget does not allow me to do that!). Please help me!
#10. "RE: Preview & Paper type" | In response to Reply # 9Fri 30-Mar-01 02:33 AM
There is a histogram display in the 990 that you can access via the menu button in the playback mode.
You should have no problem using the new and reformulated Epson papers with your 1200. Be aware that the inks for the 1200 are light sensitive and will fade quickly under UV exposure. For the glossy and luster papers, you can select the "photo paper" or "gloss paper" option in the driver and you should get good results.
If you are interested, there are ink cartridges available for the 1200 that will provide archival quality print life. The dealers of these ink sets also sell various high quality paper stock and they usually offer profiles that you can use for calibration. Here are some links to sources of these supplies (they also have good information that you may find helpful):
#11. "RE: Preview & Paper type" | In response to Reply # 10Sat 31-Mar-01 02:44 AM
BJ and Alan,
I found the histogram! I also tried Premium Luster paper, the photos look pretty OK. So I don't have to upgrade my printer driver for now. The archival ink and paper are so interesting. I will use them once I pass the beginning level.
Questions: why a 16MB card can hold only ten 1MB images? We don't need too much space for formatting the card, do we? If I want to print high quality 8X10 photos, can I set the resolution of the image to FULL SIZE 2048 X 1536 and then in Photoshop I change print size to 8X10 which automatically reduces resolution from 300 to 200 dpi?
Again, thank you!
#13. "RE: Preview & Paper type" | In response to Reply # 11Sat 31-Mar-01 04:44 PM
When you're shooting JPEGs the file size isn't constant - it can vary widely depending on how much detail there is in your subject. I'd guess what's been happening is that you've been getting larger than average files from subjects that contain a lot of fine detail. To give you some idea of how much range there can be, my D1 files vary from about 1.2Mb to 3.2Mb.
When printing in Photoshop try using the Image Size option with Resample Image turned off and set the width or height (the proportions are constrained so you can't distort the image) to an appropriate size to match your paper. You'll get a warning when you try to print if the dimensions you set are too large to fit the page, in which case simply reduce the size a bit and try again: since there's no resampling going on you're not affecting the actual image data.
#12. "RE: Set up for Photoshop 6 & monitor" | In response to Reply # 0
Yes - this looks like a callibration problem. One solution that worked for me that I can strongly recommend is RHDesign's DISC1 (Digital Imaging System Calibration) for about £35 (UK pounds). It's on http://www.rhdesigns.co.uk/
This shows that it is not a simple process to fix BUT, then gives a step-by-step instruction on how to fix it. Photoshop 6 is assumed, but much of it can e adapted to use with other image editors too.