My first impression of the results was that the photos weren't all that sharp. And since there is no sharpness setting in the D80 menu, it got me thinking that maybe the D80 doesn't do any in camera sharpening. I put a little effort into unsharp mask on PSE4 and was much more pleased with result.
Do the D200 users out there have any comments about the sharpness of my results compared to their D200?
Yes, I picked mine up on Thursday from one of our local stores
I also thought that it was a bit hard to find the sharpness setting screen. Luckily I had read the D80 preview on dpreview.com before so I had a vague idea where it was suppose to be when I was searching through the menu and reading the manual.
Like the VR feature of the 18-200 so really glad I got this lens instead of the kit lens. The salesman also told me that the other 2 sets he sold in the afternoon were also D80 body with customers choosing the 18-200VR lens Now I just need an SB800
Very happy with the camera & lens. Unfortunately the dude behind the camera still has much to learn so image quality will improve in time |P
>And since there is no sharpness setting in the D80 menu, it got me thinking that maybe the D80 doesn't do any in camera sharpening.
I know you are a new member, but it would help when you say things like the above to check your manual. As someone pointed out later in this thread, the camera has a user selectable sharpening function, as do all Nikon DSLRs.
Auto ISO is also a pretty standard feature in Nikon DSLR's, though I suggest you learn to use the camera more thoroughly before opting out for automation. It takes very little time to change ISO on the D80 and it is in 1/3 stop increments to give you only the amount of ISO boost that you need, (which means lower noise for any given photo, all things being equal). One of the advantages of your D80 over your D50 is the much higher granularity of control over things like ISO.
You'll provide us more interesting commentary if you really have drilled into the manual and the camera's functionality!
Yup, I missed it in the manual I got yesterday AND I didn't see where it was buried in the menus. My mistake.
BTW, Auto ISO is not standard on the D50, and I obviously learned to manually alter my ISO on the D50. Therefore I feel completely justified to take advantage of the power of Auto ISO on my D80.
I fail to see Auto ISO as "opting out". And haven't I more thoroughly learned manual ISO on my D50? Sure the D80 has 1/3 steps, but doesn't the Auto ISO boost in 1/3 increments? I think the problem here is that your advice is for the type of shooting that you do which, I understand from your profile, is "fine art". For my type of shooting (Street and Travel Photography, as I previously pointed out in this thread), Auto ISO is the smart way to shoot.
How about this. I'll try to provide "more interesting commentary" next time, if you read my posts more carefully and don't assume that I don't shoot the same type of photography as you. Then everyone wins.
>How about this. I'll try to provide "more interesting commentary" next time, if you read my posts more carefully and don't assume that I don't shoot the same type of photography as you. Then everyone wins.
My apologies if my post rubbed you the wrong way.
I don't believe I misread your post and your "style" of photography is not the issue at all. Learning to properly use a camera like your D80 or even your D50, is an effort for beginners and even intermediate photographers. I learn things every day in these forums and I have been shooting SLRs, film and digital, for 30 years.
Best of luck with that new D80. It, and Nikonians, can teach you a great deal, (you really get to rub shoulders with some real pros and learn from them). Have you visited the photo forums yet? You can post your pics under the "A Picture I took" forum just for general interest.
No offense taken and thanks for welcoming me to Nikonians.
Do you use autofocus? How about auto exposure? I used to be of the opinion that these were both "opting out for automation" that cause one to miss out on the finer control one gets with completely manual operation. My opinion was heavily influenced by my interest in landscape photography. Now my interest is in street and travel photography, which calls for a completely different approach. I find that Auto ISO (with it's min shutter speed and max ISO settings) allows me to get shots that would be gone if I spent the time to adjust the ISO manually. I feel the same way about auto exposure and auto focus. But if I were shooting fine art photography, I would feel very differently.
Can you see the difference? If not, I will chalk this up as an apples and organges discussion between an Ansel Adams fan and a Henri-Cartier Bresson fan.
This is my 28 year old film rig that I still shoot, (image courtesy of my D70s!). I never upgraded in film cameras. Many years ago, critics of automation in cameras thought the A-1 would likely be troublesome due to the "automatic modes" of shutter priority and aperture priority. It's real weakness turned out to be the mirror mechanism, which just needs occassional lubrication. I shoot it aperture priority, and manual.
With my D70s, I shoot aperture priority with exposure compensation so I can get the histogram where I want it. I always select ISO, because I know my D70s well enough to have a good idea of what the noise will look like at any given ISO, and in my B&W work, I know it will yield a rather film-like grain noise. It is one of the reasons I selected Nikon over Canon when I bought a DSLR.
Under certain circumstances, I turn autofocus off, (low light where it just won't work), though I use it for 99% of my shooting. Frankly, autofocus is a great thing, one less thing to think about when you have to work quickly. No one needs my opinion on that, BTW!
Keep us posted on your progress with that great new D80!
It's just that your first response to Mike was kinda smug...... I have a feeling you won't see it that way... I was surprised he responded so kindly.... he's a classy guy.... as no doubt you are too... just kinda smug in that reply...
>It's just that your first response to Mike was kinda >smug...... I have a feeling you won't see it that way... >I was surprised he responded so kindly.... he's a classy >guy.... ........................ >
I'll bet not many of us would have maintained our cool as well as Mike did. There are few things that sting as much as a self professed old timer giving someone a slap in the face by implying that the poster is a new guy; therefore, his post has reduced value.
We all make mistakes, including those who "............have been shooting SLRs, film and digital, for 30 years." I should know, I've been shooting SLRs for over 40 years and I make mistakes all the time, the latest of which is being sucked into replying to this thread.
Speaking for myself, longevity is not the same thing as expertise and it doesn't necessarily produce good judgement either. LOL
I did not realize Mike did not have access to an english version of the manual. I checked the Nikon USA website and they've not yet posted the PDF version. Sounds like from what you said, though, he's found a copy anyway.
First a little background to put my comments in context. I bought a D50 in April, and this is my first upgrade. I have never used any other DSLR.
The D80 is so similar to the D50 in size, shape and weight that I can barely tell the difference. The only thing that I noticed when I was out today, was that the D80 is indented where I grip with the fingers of my right hand. It seems as though this was done so that the camera would be more form fitted to the hand. Since my hands are medium-large, I prefer the beefier grip of the D50. But it's not a big deal.
I mostly do street and travel photography. I love to take pictures in low light without flash, so I am a big fan of the D50 noise characteristics at ISO 1600. However I have always struggled with remembering to switch ISO as I switch between day/night/indoor photography. I have always desired the ability to have user-defined program modes to help with this. The D80 does not appear to have user defined program modes, but I just discovered the Auto ISO feature and I find that to be a much better solution. Today I set the Auto ISO for a minimum of 1/125 sec and a maximum of ISO 1600. I will leave it there for 99% of my handheld shooting. The D80 does not continuously show the ISO in the viewfinder, but you can check the ISO while looking throught the viewfinder by pressing the Func button, unless you have the Func button programmed to something else.
Another nice feature of the D80 is the focus selector lock. I generally like to keep my focus selection in the center and half-depress the shutter release to hold the focus while I recompose. On my D50 I kept inadvertantly moving the focus selection. No more concerns on the D80.
I haven't had much chance to use the other additional features of the D80, but I am excited by the more advanced bracket settings, flash commander mode, long exposure noise reduction and more buttons on the body so I will have to spend less time running through the menus to make changes.
I'm looking forward to spending more time with the camera tomorrow, after which I'll post more pictures and more thoughts.
It's still to early for me to tell. I ran the battery down to 4 bars (out of 6 bars) after taking 70 or 80 pictures today, but I'm sure I had a lot of extra battery drain from all the time I spent looking throught the menus to get more confortable with the camera capabilities.
>Sorry to disappoint but the D50's auto iso is available in >P,S,A,M. I should know since i shoot manual exclusively with >auto iso.
Auto-ISO can be a very good tool. In my opinion, there is a serious flaw in the D50 implementation of Auto-ISO. In P or A mode, auto-ISO works exactly like you would expect, although it would be nice to be able to select more values for the maximum exposure time that it will allow before increasing ISO. However, the flaw is that Auto-ISO also affects M mode by not allowing any resultant exposure level except 0 EV until the camera runs out of ISO range. In P or A mode, you can get whatever exposure compensation you want to use with the exposure compensation setting, but exposure compensation does not apply to M mode (which, or course makes sense). So in M mode, when you want to dial down (or up) the exposure level, you change the aperture or exposure time until the indicator shows the + or - level that you desire; that is the strength of M mode, of course. But, if Auto-ISO is enabled, the camera will stubbornly increase ISO, e.g., if you try to expose at a -.7 EV level, back to 0 EV level!
I think that the Nikon engineers thought this was a "feature" rather than a "bug." I believe that they were expecting people to use what I call "semi-Manual" mode, i.e., dial in the aperture for the desired DoF; dial in the exposure time for the desired blur or stop-motion level; and the camera sets the ISO to satisfy those values. This could be a very useful feature. Unfortunately, even this method doesn't work effectively since the D50 almost always overexposes by default. Most people have to use negative exposure compensation between -.3 EV to -1 EV for almost every shot (I usually start with -.7 and adjust by looking at the display afterward depending on the situation). This make the "semi-Manual" mode useless since almost all the pictures are overexposed and have blown highlights.
Please don't take this as a knock against Auto-ISO; I strongly support automation of ISO adjustment along with the other basic image capture parameters (aperture and exposure time). Auto-ISO is certainly no more "cheating" than A or P mode are! This is especially true for today's Nikon cameras which have such excellent performance up to ISO 1600 and beyond. I just think the D50 missed the mark with their Auto-ISO feature. If it were disabled in M mode (or at least could be disabled by a menu item), I would likely leave it on all the time for A and P mode. As it is, going to the menu to disable Auto-ISO every time I switch to M mode is unacceptable, so I never use Auto-ISO anymore.
I didn't get the 18-135 kit lens, because I wanted the extra range of the 18-200 (and I liked the idea of VR), and I already have an 18-55 lens (from my D50 kit) if I want something light for general use.
The Sigma box you saw in the photo is the 10-20. I just got it and can't wait to try it out.
If you check my Smugmug gallery (link below), you will find that I added some comparison pictures from my D50 for the building/intersection shot, the flower shot and a new shot of pavement/bitumen. Sorry I haven't put these up sooner.
These are unscientific at best, but I think they are similar enough to give some early indications of comparison between image quality. If you are expecting more, then please wait for dpreview to issue their in-depth review of the D80.
No, I haven't looked into this. Perhaps you could get an idea by asking in the D200 forum since the D80 sensor is so similar to the D200 sensor.
BTW, I'm trying to figure out how to post to my Nikonians gallery. When I do, I'll post one of my raw files that go with the photos on my Smugmug account. In the meantime, if you send me an email, I'll send you any of the raw files that you request.
Thanks a lot for sharing your experience with D80.
Since you also own and have used a D50, would you please list down a few major points which you find better/enhanced/useful in D80 compared to D50 (or, if at all, lacking). I mean, i understand the improvements from specs point of view but would be great to know from practical point of view based on ur usage so far. Do you notice any improvement in IQ, what do u feel about high iso images in comparision. Please do post ur opinion on this.
>Hello Mike, > >Thanks a lot for sharing your experience with D80. > >Since you also own and have used a D50, would you please >list down a few major points which you find >better/enhanced/useful in D80 compared to D50 (or, if at >all, lacking). I mean, i understand the improvements from >specs point of view but would be great to know from >practical point of view based on ur usage so far. >Do you notice any improvement in IQ, what do u feel about >high iso images in comparision. >Please do post ur opinion on this. > >Thanks in advance.
I know this question wasn't directed to me but aside from the higher resolution and internal upgrades, I like the bigger screen (great detail!) and the DOF preview button. And this might sound trivial, but the light on the top LCD is really helpful. Leaving that off the D50 was just dumb. Something even more trivial but I like in the D80 is the LCD cover.