I have been reading the "CP5700 Images better than D100" thread below very intently. I am a Nikon user (N90S) and am in the near future going to purchace either a D60 or D100. I browse Fred Miranda's site daily(www.fredmiranda.com) which is mainly made up of Canon users with a few D100 users. From what I have seen over the past six months, I feel the D60 and D30 produce better images than the D100. I hate to admit that because I do have Nikkor lenses and would prefer to stick with Nikon for this reason, but the cold hard truth is, I believe, the D60 is a better camera.
I would like to read everyones thoughts on this.
#1. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 0Mike777 Registered since 16th Sep 2002Mon 27-Jan-03 06:24 PM
I had a go with a D60 and must say it was a good camera. So is the S2 and so is my D100. I don't know the answer and personally, I got fed up trying to work it out. I just a bought a D100 and got on with it. For me, it is one of the best purchases I have ever made. My photography has improved so much that people even doubt that I have taken some of the pictures (I know, only family could be so supportive).
I don't think you will ever decide on which camera to get based on image quality because whichever camera you get, you will learn it and understand how to work the tool to create the best results. I know where my D100 is strong and I know where it is weak and I can compensate accordingly. I can judge, after approx 2k pics, what the white balance needs to be in order to get what I want and if I'm wrong - delete > adjust > reshoot.
If you have Nikon equipment, then stick with it, at least you know what you are getting. Or switch to Cannon, but don't sweat it, just go for it.
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#4. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 1nick p Registered since 28th Jun 2002Mon 27-Jan-03 06:57 PM
i had a chance to use a d-60 last fall. a client (i,m a fishing guide) let me shoot all day with his while he fished. i must say that the autofocus was very quick, but did seem to hunt in low light as well with a f 3.5 lens. the overall controls were remarkably different as if the two companies try to be contrary. they were'nt any easier to work and had me confused for quite a while (lifelong nikon user). i also had my d100 and while it mostly stayed in the pelican case i took several shots a lunch and of a fish that was caught right after so i had a chance to review the shots of that fish from both cameras. also of the scenery from the same positions. imho the d-60 seems to lack the color,contrast and depth of the nikon. it was a canon lens 28-80 and i used a nikkor 28-105. the client had my photos with the nikon made into large prints that he had to get the files from me after i e-mailed some samples to him. that tells me the most, i don't think he would have if the d-60 shots were as good. i was not impressed with the images and apparently neither was he. the camera itself worked flawlessly all day and i took over 100 photos with it. i was trying not to be bias, and i think i acomplished that until i reviewed the images. i burned his files to a disk for him since he was from out of town and was running low on memory, so i compared them on the same monitor. they were loaded with nikon software so i'm not sure if that has any effect. i hope that is clear enough, i was fortunate to have the experience and i hope that helps. it's a big investment and i would even suggest renting each if you are teetering on the fence. good luck.
" the fox fears not the man who boasts by night, but the man who rises early and goes forth"
#2. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 0
Well, if you're going to be at Fred's site, no wonder you'll think that the D60 is better. Here, you'll think the D100 is better. It's a self-fullfulling prophecy that most of the people would not want to get themselves in a position where they have to admit they spent $2000 on the wrong thing.
And what is "best"? The only answer is how it fits your needs.
To me, having an investment in Nikon lenses, and all my local gurus are Nikonians, it was the D100.
My **guess** is that whatever you end up buying, you'll be very happy, and the difference between the two cameras will be measurable in a few percentage points. But you'll also look at the other camera and whish yours had THAT feature.
Welcome to opportunity cost
#6. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 3Mon 27-Jan-03 07:10 PM
>D60 is dead and Vive the D100 !!
Uh, the D60 is "dead" because Canon is replacing it with a newer model.
Ideally, this should be irrelevant to D100 users, since they should be out taking pictures not worrying about which manufacturer is doing what. But sometimes it's hard when a newer whiz-bang toy comes out...
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#5. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 0
> I feel the D60 and D30 produce better images than the D100.
What are your criteria? Straight out of camera? After processing? Noise at high ISO? The difference between the images out of the current crop of DSLRs (D60,D100,S2) is fairly small. I would argue that any one you choose can make great images. The person behind the camera is much more important.
That being said, the cameras do differ somewhat in features and out-of-camera results. If you're looking for nice out-of-camera results and a Nikon mount consider the Fuji S2 (or the Kodak 14n if/when it's released).
>but the cold hard truth is, I believe, the D60 is a better camera.
In some respects this is true. In others the D100 and S2 are superior. Depending on what/how you shoot, the D60 may be clearly superior for you. Without knowing what features are important to you, it's hard to make useful comments. Since you already have Nikon glass, it would certainly be easier to stay with a Nikon mount camera. In what ways do you see the D60 as superior?
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#9. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 7Mon 27-Jan-03 07:53 PM
>It looks to me that the D60 produces a sharper, crisper image.
Uh, not big on verbosity, are you?
Seriously though, a bit more information on your shooting style/subject would be helpful if you want more useful comments. If you're already convinced that the D60 is the camera for you, then good for you. It's a great camera.
Image sharpness depends on a lot of things: lens, camera shake, subject motion, compression/sharpening algorithm, etc. The D100 has a somewhat soft JPEG engine. So JPEGs out-of-camera are not as sharp as they should be. This can be worked-around by shooting in RAW mode and/or doing sharpening in post-processing. Alternately, the Fuji S2's engine does not suffer from a soft JPEG compression algorithm, and produces very sharp JPEGs. Also, the S2 uses Fuji's rotated photosite grid, which squeezes a bit more horz and vert resolution out of the imager.
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#8. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 0
Hey, whattya think of that new Ford Focus that was just released. And I hear that Jeep has a new model named Rubicon. GE just released a new refrigerator, and it makes bigger ice cubes. I hear that the space shuttle is gonna get bigger engines soon. Did you know that Pearl Vision has a rebate running on flexible frame glasses. Wal-Mart has the lowest prices in town. If you want a computer, I hear that DELL is a good place to go. Tampax is making a new super-absorbant Tampon, but you gotta be careful about toxic shock syndrome.
Do you get my point! I don't care if Canon makes a better or worse camera, or copier, or printer. I am a NIKONIAN. I chose Nikon. My Nikkor lenses are my friends. If you want to buy a Canon, buy it. This isn't the place to talk about it. We want to talk about Nikons. We want to read about Nikons. This is not canononians.com. This is the D100 forum, not the D60 forum. This is:
I think I'll go over to the nearest Canon site and tell them how nice the new D100 is. I'm sure I'll get a really "warm" reception. There's no such thing as a "best" camera. I took perfectly wonderful images in 1963 with my plastic Diana F. The photographer is what is best, and his community. This is a NIKON community. There are plenty of places to read about Canons, and as Billy Bob would say, "this jes' ain't one of 'em."
If you don't mind, can we drop this subject really FAST before a FLAME WAR starts!
#11. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 10Mon 27-Jan-03 08:17 PM
You're kidding, right?
Which is best...a Jeep or a Ford?
Which is best...an orange or an apple?
Which is best...a house or a teepee?
Which is best...a airplane or a helicopter?
Which is best...a lizard or a cupcake?
Which is best...Godzilla or King Kong?
Which is best...A Nikon or a Canon?
Why in the name of all the gods is someone asking any of the questions above in a NIKON community?
#12. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 8
Decaf. It will help.
The original poster is a Nikonian (shoots a N90s) and is looking to get a DSLR. He asking everyone's opinion on how the D60 compares to the D100. The thread is on topic for this forum. There have been countless D100 vs S2 vs D60 vs SD9 etc threads on the forum before. If you feel otherwise, then contact the forum moderator and see if he will remove the thread.
>If you want to buy
>a Canon, buy it. This isn't the place to talk about it,
>IMHO. I want to talk about Nikons. I want to read about
>Nikons. This is not canononians.com.
It's not like he's asking about how to set the AF modes on his new D60. All he wants is to know how it compares to the D100.
>I think I'll go over to the nearest Canon site and tell them
>how nice the new D100 is. I'm sure I'll get a really "warm"
>reception. If you don't mind, can we drop this subject
>really FAST before a FLAME WAR starts!
No one is trying to start a flame war. None of the above posts are flames. There is no reason to drop the thread. Again, if you feel that the thread is inappropriate for this forum, then contact the forum moderator.
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#13. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 12Mon 27-Jan-03 08:26 PM
It just so happens that I am one of the forum moderators (along with AlanC). But, as you suggested, I contacted myself...got aggravated, and locked this thread for a few minutes. Then, I thought better of it and unlocked it. If this thing explodes, it'll be locked again.
Emotions can run high quickly in matters of religion, politics, and Canon vs. Nikon questions. Threads of this type often disintegrate into arguments. A few of the answers above were already heading that way.
I do not want to be unreasonable, but this is NOT the place for this discussion! A good place would Photo.net, Photosig.com, or FredWhatsHisName.com, all general photography sites. This is a Nikon site. This D100/D1 forum needs to remain pure. Most of us do not care to come here and read about garage sale notices, Dell computers, McAfee virus scanners, or Canon cameras. We want to read about Nikons, and specifically issues concerning the use of D1 and D100 cameras.
#20. "Are we allowed to talk about the S2?" | In response to Reply # 8
Just read through this thread. Seems that a lot of Nikonians consider the S2 a nikon camera. I'll be buying either a D100 or an S2 soon. I'm leaning toward the S2 and would hate to offend with questions regarding it. While this is the "D1 D100" forum, it seems to be the place to ask questions about the S2. Please advise.
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#21. "RE: Are we allowed to talk about the S2?" | In response to Reply # 20lstavast Registered since 01st Jan 2003Tue 28-Jan-03 12:50 AM
Forum for specific discussion of S2 and it's genre':
It's fine to make comparisons etc. on the Nikon flavored things here as well - but the focus in this forum is the D1/D100. Post accordingly given those scopes.
#14. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 0
First, Godzilla could kick the stuffing out of King Kong.
Second, here's a potentially interesting bit of data on digicam autofocus: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=004PM5
Looks like the Nikon D100 and Fuji S2 may have some advantages over the D60. Of course, this is just test data describing very specific performance criteria.
If you don't use the same lens on both cameras, how can you compare image "sharpness" and attribute differences to the choice of camera body?
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#15. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 14Mon 27-Jan-03 09:25 PM
True...but King Kong was much better looking with his big round monkey eyes. And, he won in the end, even though he suffered 3rd degree burns in a couple of places.
I looked at other Digital cameras (notice I didn't use the "C" word), before I bought my D100. Here is why I use Nikons and think we should talk about Nikons here:
1. I've been a Nikon user for many years. My cameras last forever and will shoot in a 10 degree football game, and immediatley thereafter in an 80 degree very moist locker room, and keep on working.
2. My Nikkor lenses are world renowned for their great glass and longevity.
3. My F5 is the BEST blasted 35mm camera ever invented by mankind...bar none.
4. The D100 is part of a tradition. The Nikonian tradition. We are Nikonians. Other camera brands are not Nikons. (Isn't that weird?)
5. I am part of a community of very intelligent users who own Nikons. All these extra intelligent sensitive people could have chosen other camera brands and web communities, but they didn't. They chose Nikon and Nikonians. I choose Nikon. I don't want to talk about big "C" in this place. It is insulting to me.
6. Galen Rowell used Nikons for some strange reason.
7. Moose Peterson has a choice, guess what he chose? D1h and D1x. Now he bought a D100 too.
8. Nikonian.org is vastly superior to ANY other user community. We are not censors. But, if a person wants to read about the other camera brands, and get advice about them, they ought to go to the general photography websites and ask those sorts of questions.
And, finally, Nikons are better protection that Canons. (Ack, I said it! The foul "C" word) Read this:
#16. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 0
Foodle is right, I use Nikon equipment. I was just trying to get opinions and I was just stating my opinion based on what I have seen. I am NOT trying to start any arguments, I was just looking for opinions.
#17. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 16lstavast Registered since 01st Jan 2003Mon 27-Jan-03 10:25 PM
I'd suggest you find a place to rent one for a couple days, do your best at getting good shots with it and then do the same on a Nikon peer. It's a chunk of change to drop - make sure you're satisfied with your choice.
There's a lot of info pro/com on the D100/S2 posted here - browse around and get a good feel for specific areas of concern, and then trial it against those questionable areas. Do the same for the Canon after building a hit list similarly.
#22. "RE: Nikon D100 -vs- Canon D60" | In response to Reply # 16
It is indeed reassuring that you are a Nikonian, Richard. Due to my abiding respect and surpassing loyalty to the Nikon brand and this community, I get really really sensitive when Canon rears its ugly head here. There, I am getting over my fear of the "C" word. Let me say it again, Canon, Canoon, Caaaanooooon. Whew, that is hard for me. I'll practice it some more later.
If, indeed, you, as a real Nikonian are honestly seeking a true opinion, then you deserve to have one. From looking at the Canon myself there were several very specific things I saw.
1. The Canon, being a 100 ISO minimum has a very slightly lesser level of noise in the lowest ISO setting. (Since the D100 is a 200 ISO). But the Nikon wins in maximum ISO range, with its incredible 3200 and 6400 ISO settings. You can shoot in the dark with the Nikon. You have to have at least a candle to use the Canon.
2. Everything I have read tells me that the D100 blows the Canon away in low-light autofocus. Plus, it seems that the normal autofocus is faster and more capable.
3. The D100 has RAW, TIFF, and JPEG. The Canon only has RAW and JPEG. The Canon has no compressed RAW mode. The Nikon has both compressed and uncompressed RAW modes.
4. The Canon's EV range is 0.5 to 18. The D100's EV range is 0 to 21.
5. The Canon has 3 autofocus sensors. The D100 has 5 autofocus sensors.
6. The Canon has an ISO range of 100 to 1000. The Nikon has an ISO range of 200 to 6500.
7. The Canon has NO white balance bracketing. The Nikon does. (IMPORTANT)
8. Canon has NO real spot meter. Instead it has: "Partial metering at center (approx. 9.5% of viewfinder)." Nikon has a real 4.5 degree spot meter.
9. The D60 weighs 855 grams. The D100 weighs 700 grams.
10. The Canon has a 114,000 pixels LCD. The Nikon has a 118,000 pixel LCD.
11. The Canon costs $2,200.00 USD. The Nikon costs $1,995.00 USD.
12. The Canon does NOT have LCD GRID lines in the display. The Nikon has the really really cool LCD GRID LINES.
13. I cannot find any reference to an "Adobe RGB (1998)" mode in the Canon literature. The Nikon has that mode. The Adobe RGB mode is such an important feature to those that are going to make a print from their images! It has a much wider gamut of colors than the normal sRGB mode. Also the Nikon has what I call Velvia mode (sRGB mode III - Super green and blue saturation). Canon has sRGB and I can't find any reference to any other modes. So, Nikon has three color modes, Mode I sRGB, Mode II Adobe RGB, Mode III sRGB Deep Color. The Canon seems to have only sRGB. I am not 100% sure of this, but it would seem to be a BIG advertising point, if they had it.
14. AND FINALLY ---- (drum roll) --- The D100 has a NIKON F MOUNT! YAY! YAY! YAY! (fireworks exploding!) You can mount your NIKKOR lenses on your camera. WHAT AN IDEA!!!!! Try THAT on the D60!
Listen guys, if you are not convinced about Nikon, then I suggest you go buy a Canon. Come back here when you are convinced! If you are convinced about Nikon..we love you here! We are, as always:
This discussion is over for now. I am locking this thread. Call me a meanie if you will, but I am a Nikonian, and I do not want to have the Canon name bantered about in our D1/D100 forum. I am convinced that Nikon is SPECIAL, and that they are worthy of our loyalty. I have found Nikon cameras to be far superior in look, feel, and reliability. Canon cameras are nice.
BUT THEY ARE NOT NIKONS!
#19. "If you already own an N90 and some Nikkor lenses..." | In response to Reply # 0
...then it seems positively silly to buy Canon to gain DSLR capability, as you'll then be investing in all new lenses. All the current 6 Mpixel DSLR releases make excellent images, and they all cost about the same. The current technology is to the point that the limiting factor is not the equipment, but the nut behind the wheel.
What you might want to look closely at, however, is ergonomics and design, especially if choosing between a D100 and a Fuji S2. In particular, think about how the cameras handle, how many batteries (and what types) you want to deal with, and whether or not you can live with the placement of the controls. In the long run, these factors will be far more important than whether or not Brand X takes images with 5% less noise, autofocuses 5% faster, or takes 0.3 more frames per second. And if you already have several Nikkor lenses, it makes sense to look first at cameras that have the Nikon F-mount.