Less-than-useful thread. Question answered. Mods feel free to delete.
(Edited subject out because this doesn't appear to be a useful thread for the general community. What's useful for the community should stay at the top, not posts with intriguing topics that never seem to die.)
Bought a D200 body from the local Wolf Camera the other day. Didn't really bother shopping because I knew the D200 was too new to sell for anything less than $1,700. What I didn't even think of was tax Pushed the price up $150. I hopped online today, found one in stock and ordered it. Now, I've already taken 300 shots with the Wolf Camera body. My thought was that I'd return the unopened online order and keep the one I'm using. I feel like this is fair since the local shop gets a brand new camera to sell, not one that's already been used (read a post on the D70 forums about someone who bought one of these and returned it because it was, indeed, already used. Don't want the shop to have this hassle.)
My thought is that the shop isn't going to look close (the receipt doesn't even show the serial number). The online order form, however, will likely have the serial number (at least, Adorama's does). Is the warranty tied to the serial number listed on the invoice or is it tied to the actual serial number on the card and body? I think I called Nikon once and asked and they said the latter, but I want to be sure.
Any ideas? In a way, I feel like I'm doing something wrong, but when I think about it, it feels like this is actually the right thing to do. Does that make sense or is my moral compass just totally out of whack?
#1. "RE: Here's an interesting warranty question" | In response to Reply # 0jwenting Nikonian since 06th May 2002Sat 13-May-06 04:07 PM
You're planning to commit fraud.
Tough luck, you're now stuck with 2 cameras unless you have a law letting you return unopened mailorder items (in which case you must return the actual item you got from them or it's still fraud).
Warranty is linked to the card and camera, as well as the sales receipt.
You're trying to steal from the local shop, what you're trying to do is no better than shoplifting and I hope you get caught and arrested if you try it.
You're no better than the people taking up hours of time from a store near them, then order online because it's a bit cheaper that way.
any size is fullframe for a given definition of frame
#2. "RE: Here's an interesting warranty question" | In response to Reply # 1Sat 13-May-06 04:21 PM
No, I have 10 days to return the shop camera (well, 8 now) so I'm not committing fraud. If they want the used body back, no sweat. Just wanted to try and give them a new, unused one. It won't adversely affect me if they have to figure out how to resell the camera I bought from them. I kind of thought I was helping them out, but you've convinced me I'm not. Bummer. Thanks for setting my moral compass straight.
#4. "RE: Here's an interesting warranty question" | In response to Reply # 2hwdx347 Basic MemberSat 13-May-06 04:47 PM
If you have 8 days to return the camera, why don't you talk to the local store manager and give him the option. If he refuses the unopened new one he still has no option but to take the used one back. I agree with the other post, just trying to 'sneak' it passed them wouldn't be right.
Originally from Merthyr Tydfil, Wales -- now in Arkansas
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#5. "RE: Here's an interesting warranty question" | In response to Reply # 4Sat 13-May-06 04:50 PM
Excellent point. I'll do exactly that. Thanks for the advice. I just get the "look over" when I try to return things. In the past, they've make me feel like I've done something wrong by taking advantage of the prominently displayed "Your satisfaction is our #1 concern" return policy sign. Think it's time to find a *true* local shop.
If they DID take me up on this, do you think it would affect my Nikon warranty if the online receipt has a different serial? Gonna call Nikon on Monday to be sure, but I thought I'd check around to see if anyone knows in the meantime.
#7. "RE: Here's an interesting warranty question" | In response to Reply # 5
#3. "RE: Here's an interesting warranty question" | In response to Reply # 1
>You're no better than the people taking up hours of time from a store near them, then order online because it's a bit cheaper that way.
Now that I'm thinking over this, I'm a little hot about this statement. Judge as you will, but you have no clue about me or my intentions. But since you're so high on the local body shop, let's consider what I experienced at the Wolf Camera I dropped by.
"I see you'd like a D200. Do you want the extended warranty with that?"
"Why not? It's an expensive camera. You know we cover it against anything. Even accidental breakage."
"Yes, and thanks, but I'm not interested. This is stretching my budget already."
"Are you sure? I mean, that's a lot of money to put out there. I just bought a D50 and I got it. Well worth the piece of mind."
"I take good care of my equipment and the D200 is a rugged camera to begin with. never had an accident or unusual issue arise in 10 years. So no thanks."
"Well, that's your choice. but if you change your mind, just bring it back and we'll sell it to you. Only <some exorbitant fee>."
"Thank you, I'll keep that in mind."
"Would you like to join our Foto Club? You get all the red (inflated) prices you see above plus some cash-back. In fact
I finally said yes just so he'd shut up, stop looking at me like an alien because I didn't purchase the 95% profit extended warranty plan, and I could leave the store to start playing with the camera. Before that, I waited 15 minutes at the counter so Granny could ask questions about the PowerShot she didn't buy while the manager stood there and looked at the printing machine with a confused look on his face. When the lady at the checkout finally finished with granny and came over to me, she was in the *middle* of handing me a D200 to look over, when he interrupted her mid-sentence, told her to come over there and fix whatever it was. She put the camera back on the shelf with an apologetic look, went over there, they chatted for a bit, then he came over and helped and proceeded to upsell like crazy.
Now, let's see. I can save $150+ on tax by ordering from NY. I'd like to return a new camera to them so they don't have the hassle of reselling a "used" camera, eventhough I'll be w/in 100% of my rights to do so. I've even refrained from taking much out of the box, trying instead to use my D70 equipment, so as much as possible is in the original packaging. And in exchange for this, I spent 30 minutes in the store either waiting, being treated poorly, or badgered to buy something I didn't want.
So, call me a shoplifter. Say I'm stealing. Hope I get arrested. Say I'm no better than whomever you wish. Whatever. I'll just consider the source in this case...
#6. "RE: Here's an interesting warranty question" | In response to Reply # 3Trekman Registered since 27th Sep 2004Sat 13-May-06 07:25 PM
Return the original camera if you have the 8-day grace period. Anything else is illegal. Your tactics are pretty lame in my opinion and I don't care what you think about me.
You bought it, you own it. To return it just because you found another one for a lower overall cost is pretty sad. But people do what they do and I don't control that. Situations like this are prime examples of why things cost what they do.
You are wrong...I do know you. I think you just told everyone what type of a person you are.
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#8. "RE: Here's an interesting warranty question" | In response to Reply # 6equus Registered since 02nd Nov 2005Sat 13-May-06 08:42 PM
I just stumbled across this thread and all I can say is, "Wow, all of this for $150?" Now I'm not rich but let's put it into perspective. $150 is $12.50/month or $0.41/day. Personally, I would have bit the bullet with my bad decision to not be well informed and shop around before making the commitment to spend $1,700. $0.41/day!
#10. "RE: Here's an interesting warranty question" | In response to Reply # 8Sat 13-May-06 09:01 PM
That's a fair point. If my experience in the store had been a positive one, I might be inclined to do that. I've done it before. Seeing as how I left the store on a bad experience, I'm not really feeling like I "owe" them anything. Just thought I was maybe doing better than the "average joe" by trying to return a new camera since I bought a new camera.
And to put it in another perspective, $150 = 2 years extended warranty. I see your point about $0.41/day, but the world doesn't work that way (at least, not when you're not putting everything on a credit card).
#11. "RE: Here's an interesting warranty question" | In response to Reply # 6Sat 13-May-06 09:03 PM
You're gonna believe what you're gonna believe. Not really terribly worried about changing someone's opinion who's on the other side of a computer monitor. Good to know you've never changed your mind once you found a better option. Hope that keeps working for ya.
> Situations like this are prime examples of why things cost what they do
Sorry, but no. The only reason things cost what they do is that people buy them at these prices. Called Capitalism. As much as I like Nikon, they're not staying awake at night trying to figure out how to offset the fact that I returned a camera to store 1 because I found it cheaper at store 2. They're trying to figure out what NOT to put into the D200 so they can still reasonably sell the D2x for $4k. Your belief that my actions in this situation have any effect on the price of your camera speaks volumes about your misunderstanding of the world in which live. The camera store will re-sell the camera I return for full price. I have seen them do it before with other people's returns with no compunction (nor was there even a warning that it had been handled). Nikon will get their margins, the store will get theirs. The profits will continue to flow, the CEO's will only continue to increase the distance between their salaries and those of the "Average Joe". I merely wished to return a new camera for new. Your sentiments were offended. As much as I'd like to say I'm sorry, I'm not. I am trying to do what I think is fair. Paying more than I need to for a camera so "CEO X" can use $100's to light his fire instead of $50's is not one of them.
Now, I feel like I've had some productive answers from the thread and have decided on what I think is a reasonable course of action. If the serial number is not an issue from the shipper, I will ask the store if they would like the new camera. If they say no, I will return the "used" one in accordance with their stated policy. The membership I'll keep and let gather dust (I figure that's a free $15 for them and sufficient penance on my part). Feel free to comment all you want on your perception of my moral fiber. I promise I am more than happy to put it up against anyone else's any day. That having been said, I'm moving on and letting this thread do so as well.
#12. "RE: Here's an interesting warranty question" | In response to Reply # 0
Your moral compass is out of whack. What about the State here? The fact that you've purchased a camera from a vendor on the Internet who is not required to withhold State sales tax, does not mean that sales tax is not imposed on the purchase of your second camera. If your State is like other states, YOU as the purchaser are required to report your purchase to the State and then pay the Governor his due, i.e., the same $150. Let's face it, however, that the states do not have the resources to collect sales tax on out-of-state purchases, so most Internet purchasers go untaxed if not collected at the point of sale.
I would not recommend that you bring this up (i.e., propose to return the unopened D200) with the Wolf Camera store, as your real intent here is to evade payment of State sales tax. Simply return the camera that you purchased from Wolf and then be happy with your tax-free D200. Keep in mind that you may be costing others money with the return, i.e., the D200 cannot be sold as new merchandise, Wolf may have to return it to Nikon to be sold as refurbished, and Wolf has potentially lost profit on the camera you will be returning.
Finally, to all Nikonians, if your local camera shop has competitive prices, then please be willing to pay the sales tax, and purchase your equipment locally. Your local camera shop should not be penalized because it is required by state law to collect the sales tax that you, as the purchaser, owe.
in Mariemont, OH
John, in Cincinnati, OH
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#15. "RE: Here's an interesting warranty question" | In response to Reply # 12LMMiller9 Nikonian since 18th Dec 2005Sat 13-May-06 10:32 PM
I think the condescending tone of some of these replies is very unfortunate.
The original message was posted as a sincere QUESTION. If he was intent on engaging in immoral behavior, stealing or cheating, he would never have asked the question.
I think those who post questions should be treated with more dignity and fairmindedness and less condescending judgment.
Larry Miller, Potomac, MD
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#17. "John- I would suggest reading the....." | In response to Reply # 12skiracer Registered since 18th Jun 2004Sun 14-May-06 01:24 AM
Constitution of the United States of America. It VERY clearly states in Article 1, Section 9, that "No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State." This is stated very clearly, in the main text of the constitution (not an add-on or afterthought, but a core principle of the founding fathers). The states that are attempting to collect sales taxes on purchaes shipped across state borders are doing so out of pure greed, and clearly in violation of the Constitution. I think that if the States would look at the additional sales and income taxes generated by all of the additional shipping from internet sales, they would realize just how greedy they are becoming. In my opinion, it would take a constitutional amendment to allow the collection of sales tax by one state for a sale that was completed in another. There is a reason that mail order purchases were tax free for forever- and still are. The internet is no different.
#14. "RE: Here's an interesting warranty question" | In response to Reply # 0
Let's please stick to advice that is of general photographic interest here in the public forum.
Much of this other stuff is best said in private messages, e-mail, or not at all.
You know who you are.
If you disagree ignore me or send PM or e-mail.
If you agree then it would be classy to edit your posts.
Visit me at Photons To Photos