This guy has tried the D200 a mere 5 minutes. I have translated a few sentences: http://www.akam.dk/artikkel/20660
"...så er søgeren ganske stor. Den var større end i både D2X og EOS 20D, men ikke revolutionerende meget større"
==> "... the viewfinder is quite big. Bigger than both D2X and EOS 20D but not significantly bigger."
"...Kameraet har en del specifikationer, som gør, at vi tror, det vil blive en hård konkurrent til D2X. Sidstnævnte har bedre autofokus-system, bedre hvidbalancemåling..."
==> "... we believe that the camera's functionality will make it a tough competitor to D2X. The latter has better AF and WB systems..."
and a new thing to me:
"Kameraet er udstyret med en funktion, som gør, at det ikke vil acceptere tredjepartsbatterier."
==> "The camera is equipped with a function which makes it impossible to use third party batteries" (AA apart obviously).
He also quotes Nikon of saying that the new batteries will work in D70 but the old ones will not work in the D200. It must be said that the reviewer had only very short time to use the camera and was not allowed to use his own CF Cards but he was very positively surprised.
#1. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 0simpo two Registered since 17th Aug 2004Fri 04-Nov-05 09:04 AM
Berger Bros advised me: 'The ENLE3 WILL work. The NEW ENEL3E is just more powerful.'
The D200 has a percentage charge feature on the display - seems a bit unnecessary I think as the usual battery indicator has four sections - and that's what the 'e' batteries support.
Maybe Nikon are tying it up to make sure they sell lots of batteries at £50 each?
#3. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 1eadams629 Registered since 03rd Nov 2005Fri 04-Nov-05 06:57 PM
I'm looking forward to trying the D200. But, I do have a question...I noticed in the features listed that it mentioned "Compressed RAW." What the heck? Why would you compress raw? Please don't laugh, just share enlightenment, if you would. I've never heard RAW format described as compressed. Thanks.
#4. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 3
#5. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 4jschone Registered since 20th Aug 2004Fri 04-Nov-05 08:29 PM
The D70 for example, only supports compressed NEF. Compressed NEF's are said to have a small loss in highlight detail. I don't think you will notice this directly and you will have 30% more photos on your card. Anyway, on the d200 (and d100, d2x and other pro d's) you have the choice, which is a good thing in my opinion.
#16. "RE: D200 hands on feeling-compressed RAW" | In response to Reply # 5DVDMike Registered since 25th Mar 2003Sun 06-Nov-05 09:30 AM
In shooting with a D2H and D2X, I only shoot compressed RAW. I have yet to find any evidence that the compression throws away anything that I can see. And I have never seen any comparison pictures of a D2 series camera where someone demonstrated that the uncompressed image did not look identical.
So the question for me is "Why shoot uncompressed when you can shoot compressed and save 50% CF and disk space?" The only Nikon camera where I shoot uncompressed NEF with is the D100. It takes a significantly long time to write a compressed image.
If anyone can show me images where NEF compression hurts a D200 image, I might consider shooting uncompressed. But until then, and after I get my hands on a D200, I will be shooting compressed NEFs.
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#8. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 3anyholt Registered since 21st Jul 2004Sat 05-Nov-05 02:56 AM
You use compressed NEFs to save space, but sacrifice shooting speed as processing time is increased.
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#23. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 8Tue 08-Nov-05 08:41 AM
>You use compressed NEFs to save space, but sacrifice
>shooting speed as processing time is increased.
I believe that is incorrect, except in the D100. Every other Nikon that can do both compressed and uncompressed raw takes about the same time to write each. If anything, it takes less time to write compressed raw. Only in the D100 is shooting time sacrificed when using compressed raw.
#6. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 1
The EN-EL3a and the new "e" version both have the same voltage and 1500 mAh capacity. The original EN-EL3 has 1400 mAh capacity, same voltage.
The EN-EL3e adds battery charge tracking electronics and a third contact to communicate the battery status to the D200.
I'd bet that the earlier cells would power the D200, but they wouldn't provide accurate charge status. If the new monitoring is like Sony's infolithium, it keeps track of power consumption by monitoring current and time. Using Sony video cameras, this system is much more accurate than simply tracking the voltage curve as previous Nikons and other brands do.
Value added - worth the upgrade cost if this works as well as the Sony system.
#10. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 6
#22. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 1
This is positively incorrect. I've not only examined the new batteries, but tried to put the older type into a D200, and they WILL NOT FIT unless you cut away a part of it. I'm going to test later on on a review camera if this modification allows an old battery on D200, but since I have yet to try, I cannot say anything more on that topic.
The new battery has three contacts, the older type only two. New batteries can be used in D100/D70/D50, but not vice-versa at least as the matter now stands.
#7. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 0
I would suspect that if the 3rd party batteries won't work, then the older EN-EL3 batteries won't either. It has been suggested that the camera has to read the chip on the battery (new contact) in order to even turn on.
... we'll find out soon enough.
#9. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 7Sat 05-Nov-05 03:18 AM
Looking back on when the D2H first hit the streets which was Nikons first camera to have the new, advanced battery consumption meter and how many people picked up the generic brand batteries that resulted in a not getting many shots off before dead.
I would predict a similar situation with the old EN-EL3 when used in the D200.
Supposedly the generic brand batteries were missing the parts to communicate with the camera (essentially the same difference between the EN-EL3e and the older EN-EL3) so the camera saw the battery as dead, or vary close to dead.
Since the camera is to smart, when it sees the battery being on the verge of totally being drained it will shut down.
It would make more sense that an EN-EL3e could be used in the older cameras that used the EN-EL3 then the other way around.
#12. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 11Signu53 Registered since 29th Oct 2005Sun 06-Nov-05 03:43 AM
This is mainly talk but I have to ask.....are you willing risk damaging your D200 to save on buying one battery.....
Someone mentioned there is a third contact on the E battery. By putting an old one in there you risk ruining the contact in the camera.
Also, knowing that the D200 will use this new contact for power information, it is unlikely that it will give you an battery indication at all from the old contacts.
I have also heard many say that the new will work in the old cameras so its really only a cost issue here and lets face it, the D200 has been price much lower than any of us had anticipated and in terms of the function of the camera, it has everything we have asked and then some that we didn't think would be available so even if you spring for an extra battery or if you are a nut and spring for 3 extra battery so you have a spare for your MB-200, I think you are still coming out ahead of the game since most of us expected this camera cost between the 2000-2500 dollar mark.
Thats just my way of looking at it but then again, I didn't spend hundred of dollars on batteries for a D70 since I don't own one. But do you want to risk ruining your D200 to find out? Cause I doubt this type of damage will be covered under warranty since Nikon has specifically said the old batteries will not work on the D200.
#13. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 12jrosseel Registered since 09th Apr 2002Sun 06-Nov-05 04:46 AM
>This is mainly talk but I have to ask.....are you willing
>risk damaging your D200 to save on buying one battery.....
>Someone mentioned there is a third contact on the E battery.
> By putting an old one in there you risk ruining the contact
>in the camera.
>Also, knowing that the D200 will use this new contact for
>power information, it is unlikely that it will give you an
>battery indication at all from the old contacts.
Gordon makes very valid points. But besides the risk of using 3rd party batteries, let's also consider if you really need them.
The D200 is rated at 1800 shots on a charge. The reason it can do that is exactly the extra contact and the so-called "power gauge" this is inside that battery. This allows for really good monitoring of the battery level, charge process and lifetime of the battery. SOmebody mentions tha thte 4-bar indication of the D70 is "good enough". It might be from a user level, but from a battery TCO (Total Cost of Ownership), the added power gauge is way better.
So, with 1800 shots on a single charge, who really *needs* a second battery? How many of us shoot 1000 shots a day?
The battery will likely also last a camera lifetime. The shutter is rated at 100K actuations. That means you only need to fully drain and recharge your batteyr 55 times to reach that. The battery can easily do that.
In other words: because of Nikon's improved battery design in the D200, most of us will not never need to buy a second one, so what's the fuzz?
#14. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 13afx Registered since 02nd Nov 2005Sun 06-Nov-05 07:14 AM
> The battery will likely also last a camera lifetime.
From my experience with laptop and mobile phone lithium batteries, the battery will degrade within a year (on my IBM T43p that I received in February, it will only go upto 88% capacity by now). It will be junk after two to three years.
The D200 is at least good enough until the industry finally gets into the dynamic rage of film, which will take much longer then the usable life span of lithium cells.
D70 and Bibble on all platforms
D200 and Bibble on all platforms
#24. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 14Tue 08-Nov-05 08:46 AM
>> The battery will likely also last a camera lifetime.
>From my experience with laptop and mobile phone lithium
>batteries, the battery will degrade within a year (on my IBM
>T43p that I received in February, it will only go upto 88%
>capacity by now). It will be junk after two to three years.
I've had a D100 for over three years (it's my girlfriend's now), and the battery is not "junk." Same for the D2H battery that is almost two years old. I agree with you with respect to laptop batteries; but I have found Nikon and Motorola LiIon batteries to surpass laptop batteries.
#25. "RE: D200 hands on feeling" | In response to Reply # 13Tue 08-Nov-05 08:49 AM
And even if you buy another battery, it doesn't make sense to risk your investment in the camera to use anything other than the recommended battery for the slight difference in cost.
#15. "3rd party batteries ..." | In response to Reply # 0
Now it becomes clear why that story surfaced a month or two ago about that exploding D70 with 3rd party batteries.
Nikon's spin on this will be that the D200 will not accept anything other than genuine Nikon batteries as a safety feature '... because we don't want our customers injured by poor quality 3rd party batteries'. In reality, it's to sell more high margin batteries as by and large, 3rd party batteries are identical to the factory product except for the ( genuine not faked ) Nikon badge.
Expect this dedicated battery 'feature' to filter down to replacements of all current models.
#17. "RE: 3rd party batteries ..." | In response to Reply # 15Sun 06-Nov-05 10:38 AM
As us D2 users have found out 3rd party batteries are NOT the same as genuine Nikon equivalents, .
If you spend $1700 for a camera what is a extra $50 (or what ever it is) for a proper battery?
If it is a lemon you will have no problem getting Nikon to deal with it just as you will have no problem having Nikon deal with it if it damaged your camera under proper use.
Try getting them to fix your camera under warranty because of a lemon 3rd party battery going bad causing your camera to short our.
#18. "RE: 3rd party batteries ..." | In response to Reply # 17Sun 06-Nov-05 11:57 AM
Well, I don't have a D2 series and GBP50 represents a much larger proportion of the camera cost for me.
I have a 3rd party EN-EL3a equivalent which outperforms the camera's own EN-EL3. Of course it is 1500mAH as opposed to the EN-EL3's 1400mAH so better performance is to be expected, but other than charge longevity, there is absolutely no discernable difference between it and the the genuine part.
The cells are almost certainly made in the same factory. Nikon don't make them themselves. They are just two fairly ordinary Li-Ion cells in a custom plastic package.
Now some do purport to be 'Nikon' and have faked badging. From an unscrupulous source I can see that corners could be cut to maximise their dodgy profits leaving the customer with perhaps a sub-standard cell. But where a reputable 3rd party manufacturer puts their own name on a cell you can be fairly sure that it is a comparable product.
As to Nikon warranty? Would you really send a camera back for repair with a 3rd party battery actually in it ? I wouldn't*. Also, the likelihood of a named brand 3rd party battery exploding as in those released pictures is statistically tiny. And if it did, and the brand name was reputable, you'd have some come back with them anyway.
Ultimately, if you buy wisely, you get an equivalent product from a named brand, with tiny risk for a fraction of the cost.
* Many years ago I returned an FE to Nikon for warranty work and it was returned to me sans battery. I learned from that. Whenever I return anything now it is without ancilliary equipment included.
#19. "RE: 3rd party batteries ..." | In response to Reply # 15
I'd expect name brand third party batteries to be just as good as Nikon. The exploding batteries would have been counterfeits or really low end no-name. I'm puzzled about how they could explode in the camera, though. I could see that being a risk on the charger if the battery is a knock-off.
I would not be surprised if the camera refused to work with a non-Nikon battery. That's a growing trend. One day my Sony laptop shut down with a message that it had detected a non-Sony battery. Tech support told me to re-seat my battery, which was the factory original, and it's been OK, but that function was a nasty discovery.
One printer maker included a chip in their toner cartridges so you could not use third party cartridges or refills. In the US they lost that one in court.
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#20. "RE: 3rd party batteries ..." | In response to Reply # 19Sun 06-Nov-05 12:42 PM
I know that some of the good, name brand batteries are vary good although it is more the issue with newer technology like with the new EN-EL3e where the battery & camera must communicate that issues have arised with 3rd party batteries in the past.
I am not sure if these issues are due to the camera being to smart for its own good and not knowing what to do when it is receiving power from a un-known source or if I is something along the lines as what Ken mentioned with his laptop.
As for my comment about potential warranty issues that FEtoD70 replied to.
Of course I would not send a camera in that needed something repaired with a battery in the camera regardless of the make unless the battery was apart of the problem and Nikon wanted it as well.
I also highly doubt a battery would explode in a camera although supposedly it has happened which means it could happen again.
#21. "RE: 3rd party batteries ..." | In response to Reply # 20Tue 08-Nov-05 06:22 AM
Looks like Nikon batteries aren't immune to overheating either !
My battery is on the list. At least I have a 3rd party battery to keep me going. . Just kidding!