Sure it all looks good on paper. But what about the point that really counts. The sensor. Will it compete in terms of dynamic range and natural looking skin tones like the Fuji S3?
If it doesn't, it would be like using ordinary film in an F5. You have one of the best film cameras ever made without the best film to do it justice.
So before you shoot me down in flames, I am only asking the question, I am not being negative towards the D200. If it has a great sensor I would be the first to buy it, because the rest of the specs look great.
We are all interested in the answer. We will get the answer once the production cameras are shipped. Can you wait? Or, would you rather at this time speculate that the D200 image would not be as good as the S3?
>Indeed! If we could harness all this hot air, there wouldn't >be an energy crisis.
The d200 forum has been here for a while. The camera isn't shipping yet. So, most everything here is hot air. Why does that bother you?
It's not really a lot different than any other forum, where topics are seldom, if ever, new or uplifting. But, at least we can try to enjoy talking about the things that interest us. You say it's hot air. I say it's a better way to indulge in our common interest than a lot of other endeavors.
A great deal of chatter reduces the value of the search engine. Any nuggets of useful information are hidden by the clutter.
Before the D200 announcement, I couldn't care less about what's said. After the announcement, we have hard data to work with. Let's quickly assess the camera's functionality and make a decision about ordering.
What is the point at this time of a facetious discussion about the hypothetical merits of the d200 vs. S3? Once we read the reviews of the production camera, we can assess the image quality based on real examples.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't indulge yourself in casual conversations. But, there is a time for everything. There is a timeliness in raising controversial issues at a critical junction. After that moment, controversy merely becomes annoying.
There is a time for chit-chat when things are slow. It becomes counterproductive when clear insights are needed.
>There is a time for chit-chat when things are slow. It >becomes counterproductive when clear insights are needed.
wow. That was quite a read.
Well, as I said, the camera isn't shipping yet. We have all the real, significant data we're likely to have, for at least another month or two.
So, either one has sufficient data to make a purchase decision now, or not. Clear insights into a camera that isn't in anyone's hands, are going to be few and far between.
The moderators here have things well in hand, AFAICT. So, unless we only talk about the press release, which most anyone can read, I'd guess we have little to say, other than speculation and such, like we've been doing.
"So, unless we only talk about the press release, which most anyone can read, I'd guess we have little to say, other than speculation and such, like we've been doing."
So... if you have so little to say ... why say anything?
Actually, there are a few important insights. For example, Rob Galbraith made an important point about the flash sync. Phil Askey's preview mentioned that the d200 only uses a new battery. Similarly, the d200 uses the D2 power adapter. Bjorn Rorslett has posted his hands-on experience with the d200 VF. A number of non-digital users have made points of clarification. Etc etc.
It would be a good thing if you can pay attention to what others are doing, while you are chatting.
Like I said Jim, I am only asking a question. There was no speculation in my question at all. If I was speculating I would have wrote. "I don't think the sensor of the D200 will be as good as the Fuji S3". But I didn't.
My question was aimed at people who may know what type of sensor it uses and who have a bit of knowledge of the performance of this particular sensor. That is why I asked the question, because I don't have the knowledge regarding the D200 sensor. Just because you don't know the answer doesn't mean someone else out there doesn't.
You could have asked in a neutral way about the technical differences between the D200 and S3 sensor and image strategies.
This is a users forum, not populated by insiders or technical people. I don't think that the pundits know anything about the new sensor. Many people will be happy to regale you with details of what is already well known. Will any of that be useful to you?
Right now, we are weighing the d200's functionality based on the published info. We can gauge the quality based on our Nikon experiences with MLU, fps, battery life, lens compatibility etc.
Nikon's image strategy has changed with each new generation, and with each camera. Nikon is currently using three sensor technologies. Is there any the point in speculating about the d200's image quality. We will know with certainty next month (?).
At this point we don't know much about the sensor performance. I don't expect the D200 will match the dynamic range of the S3.
I don't care if the D200 has the dynamic range of the S3. Your question suggests that DR is all that really counts. Some of don't hold DR as dear when weighing the merits. As it sits you'd have to put a great value on DR since the S3 is a comparatively underpowered and dated camera selling for about the same price as the D200.
I don't buy the "natural skin tones" Fuji myth. Fuji does indeed have a particular spin on how it like colors to appear, but getting the Fuji look isn't very reliable in non-standard lighting due to poor white balance accuracy. There's nothing about the Fuji color "look" that is due to the sensor. You can process RGB files from any DSLR to get the same look. You just won't get it straight from the camera since each maker has its own ideas about color.
Nikon has a Nikon look. What you get out of a Nikon camera compared to a Fuji will be more accurate color. Fuji goes for pleasing color (to some eyes). As an S2 and D70 owner, I have to say I prefer working with more accurate Nikon colors. But that's just a personal preference. The problem with the Fuji sensor is you have to get it in an N80 body with underpowered image handling for the big Fuji files.
I think the answer may be in looking at the new Sony digicam. It uses the same sensor as the D200. The preliminary tests show its better than the 20D slightly...so I would guess the Nikon to be as good or better.
I don't use S3 pro and we still don't know how the result from D200 will be. But I think you are very much impressed by the DR and the colour of Fuji. I also love Fuji films and its' colour. But in digital as you know you can get whatever colour you like. S3 is a great camera and it was once in my wish list. Theoritically, the DR of most of the same size sensors are not much difference. The difference is how the processing engine work and handel the data. By the way do you know which camera has greater DR, S3 or 5D?
By chance I was researching the S3 in the last week. The large and small photosites do appear to make for greater DR, but the way the camera used this information was unfriendly to say the least. IIRC you could either have a JPG that combined both, or a RAW that didn't, or something like that. I remember thinking it would be a pig to use fully.
Now, I'm on the limit of my knowledge here but DR is connected to bit depth, and the D200 and the D70 are both 12-bit. Does that mean the D200 has exactly the same DR as the D70 (ie not much) or have they done something clever we don't know about? A D70 RAW file is 6MB; one from the D200 is 15.8Mb - which is bigger than the extra pixels alone would account for...
DR is very important to me: I'm sick of dialling in -EV to expose for the highlights, then watching the noise appear in the shadows when I try to brighten them in Levels.
I think the D200 is a great camera with excellent features. I looks like the kind of camera that could convert the guys who are still using analogue dslr's out there.
But for me - and the kind of photographs I make - good dynamic range is crucial. It's one of the areas where analogue is still outperforming digital. Cramming 10 megapixels on the same physically sized sensor isn't a challenge. Digicams have been doing it for years. I expect Nikon to investigate other fields (as dynamic range) as well as I don't want to invest in a new digital body every year or even every three years.
Also it's not because there are no test results out there, that nothing can be said about the sensor. Sensors and sensors manufactors don't come falling out of the sky. Instead, sensors are built on previous experiences and implementations. So if somebody out here is in the loop about the technical details of these sensors he might give us some insight.
But i'm eagerly awaiting the test results. I don't expect de D200 to beat the S3 on dynamic range as the S3 sensor is specifically build around improving DR but I hope there is improvement compared to previous Nikon models. This is a crucial factor for me in deciding to buy the D200.