I should know this, although I need some clarification. I have a D3s.
I'm attending a photo workshop in late Sept. that only allows you to shoot JPEG, without any editing (you basically give the workshop instructors your memory card/images right out of the camera). I plan on shooting using the JPEG + RAW setting so that I have a NEF back up for future editing use (I can either place these two formats on the same card or use one slot for JPEG and one for NEF).
My question regards color space. While I typically shoot RGB, I plan on shooting in sRGB for this workshop - because the workshop instructors won't allow any editing - which would include converting to the sRGB space for online viewing (which is how our images will most likely be presented to the group).
My question has to do with the backup NEF images. These will be tagged as sRGB as well - although I always convert to ProPhoto RGB upon Capture NX2 import (but normally I do this from images originally saved in the RGB space).
My recollection tells me that changing a NEF from sRGB to RGB upon NX2 import won't cause any issues, because the camera is just setting sRGB as a preference (based on your in-camera setting), rather than it being a fixed value.
In other words, you can't go from a smaller color space to a larger one if sRGB is fixed, like it would be with a JPEG. But with Capture NX2 and NEFs, I assume you're really working with a larger color gamut to begin with, even if it's pulling over the smaller color space (sRGB) tagged setting that you had set in camera. And you are basically overriding this when you convert upon import. Is this logic correct? I just want to make sure my NEFs won't forever be limited to sRGB if that's what I set in camera - as I like to edit and print using the wider space.
Sat 01-Sep-12 03:45 PM | edited Sat 01-Sep-12 03:46 PM by walkerr
I suspect you mean Adobe RGB rather than RGB, but yes, how you tag your NEFs doesn't ultimately matter in NX2 or any other raw converter. It only matters for jpegs. This isn't unique to the D3s or even Nikon cameras - it's true for everything.
I have a D4 instead of the D3s though I imagine they have similar settings.
Why don't you use Adobe RGB instead of sRGB? Why limit yourself to the color space with the smallest working space?
To take advantage of shooting RAW, it's recommended that shoot with the highest bit depth. On the D4, it's 14bit.
When you use Adobe Camera RAW, you can open the NEF file as 16 or 8 bit with 16 bit being preferred if you want the most color information. Also, using Adobe Camera RAW you can open the image in the ProPhoto RGB space, though you need a good monitor to take advantage of ProPhoto RGB.
Since I've never used Nikon's software, I'm not sure how they compare.
The only thing the in-camera color space affects are jpegs. In a less well-controlled situation, jpegs created with an sRGB color space are easier to manage. With raw files, the color space can be changed later in all raw converters, so the in-camera color space setting falls in the category of "don't care" in general.
>The only thing the in-camera color space affects are jpegs. >In a less well-controlled situation, jpegs created with an >sRGB color space are easier to manage. With raw files, the >color space can be changed later in all raw converters, so the >in-camera color space setting falls in the category of >"don't care" in general.
How are sRGB files easier to manage as compared to Adobe RGB files?
The images will look "normal" even if software programs that aren't color managed are used. That doesn't mean I advocate using that color space when I'm able to control everything, but if you're handing off jpegs to someone else, keeping them in sRGB increases the likelihood of them looking correct on the receiving end.
Exactly. I'm handing off my jpegs right out of the camera - so using sRGB is the safest bet. I was just a little confused because I'm shooting NEF and jpeg at the same time and normally I have the camera set to Adobe RGB, so I wasn't sure how setting the camera to sRGB would impact the NEFs - but you just confirmed what I thought, but I had to be sure. It's been years since I shot jpeg, lol.
Sun 02-Sep-12 04:13 AM | edited Sun 02-Sep-12 04:37 AM by kj_fi
here are 3 screenshots of an image of my daughter captured from the Opera web browser. Obviously, it doesn't correctly recognize color spaces. Surprisingly, IE9 showed them all identical (or very close at least).
Pro foto RGB:
As you can see, if the program you are using does not recognize color spaces, your photo may look a bit odd on your client's screen. You minimize the chance of color space problems by using sRGB in your public (e.g., web) images.
In general, using the correct color space is only one issue; it is common that the intensity of average Joe's display has been set too high and therefore, the images could well look washed out.
Please note that while the gamut of the Adobe RGB color space is larger than the gamut in the sRGB color space, the number of bits to represent them in the common JPEG file is still the same: only 8 bits. Having just 256 different tones of pure red is not much. However, in practice, it works most of the time.
Thanks, Jack. I normally shoot 14 Bit RGB NEF and convert to ProPhoto RGB for editing (and back to sRGB for online posting), so I typically use the best the camera can produce.
The photojournalism workshop I'm attending requires jpeg only - and you can't edit. If I shoot in Adobe RGB and they post online for any group presentations or reviews, the color could be washed out (which can happen when you upload an RGB file online, unless the program you're using automatically converts it).
Of course, I'll have the NEFs for future editing (after the workshop is done) - so I'll use the wider color space at that point.
Obviously, I'm no color space expert but I have doubts about some of what was written.
If the monitors used to view the images aren't hardware calibrated, the images won't look "correct" on either end regardless of whether it's sRGB, Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB.
How will sRGB or any other standard display correctly on every different monitor on a variety of browsers? It won't. It's out of the photographer's control. If the viewer's monitor is set too high or lacks calibration, the image won't display correctly regardless of the color space.
If the images are being viewed in a workshop, will they be seen using image viewer software on a desktop computer, a laptop computer or will it be online using a web browser? If you're using anything but a web browser, it seems like it would be advantageous to use the higher gamut of Adobe RGB.
Monitors get better every year. Even though there is more variation in how it displays online, I use Adobe RGB. I've viewed my images on PCs and Macs, and I'm satisfied with how they display.
The wider gamut of Adobe RGB can't be seen on laptop displays or projectors, but images with that profile will have incorrect colors if the software used to view them isn't color managed. Uncalibrated monitors just make the problem even worse.
The OP mentioned that images would be displayed in a workshop. My question was how will the images be displayed? He mentioned online.
Web browsers IE 9, Google Chrome 18, Firefox 15 (with a plug-in) and Safari 5.1 are color managed. From my research, I found the following. This part is copied from elsewhere. If you send an image to a monitor without adapting the colors to the monitor's color space, you will get the wrong colors. "Color aware" applications are ones that do that adaptation: • they figure out the image color space. • they figure out the monitor color space. • they map RGB values from one to the other.
So color-aware applications will show the correct colors whatever the color space of the image and whatever the color space of the monitor (provided the monitor is calibrated/profiled).
If that statement is accurate, he can shoot Adobe RGB for the class and not encounter color accuracy problems if the class is using the latest browsers (or other color managed program) with a color calibrated monitor.
> >If that statement is accurate, he can shoot Adobe RGB for the >class and not encounter color accuracy problems if the class >is using the latest browsers (or other color managed program) >with a color calibrated monitor. >
You just answered your own question:
- You can't depend on an instructor using the latest browsers or operating systems
- You can't depend on them using a color-managed app to show your images
Adobe RGB does nothing positive for you in this environment, but it can cause problems.