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Anyone for FF or larger?

Anders_HK

Expatriate living overseas in, KR
254 posts

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Anders_HK Registered since 04th Oct 2002
Sun 25-Mar-07 07:20 AM

This is not another FF versus DX. Let us *NOT* discuss DX D3 here. Please give me thoughts on what I write below.

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Edit - CLARIFICATION:
This thread is strictly directed to people interested and wanting FF option for Nikon.
Please do not post replies if you prefer DX format or believe DX is better. There is already DX format available. This thread is for people interested in the D3 FF, not the D3 DX (both of which I personally believe should exist).
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I personally want FF or larger. Hopefully the Nikon D3 will be in two versions, a FF and DX version to cater to varying preferences for equipment, or if at compatible price in a FF with DX crop mode for extended reach and higher FPS in order for Nikon to compete with one camera towards both Canon 1D Mk III, Canon 1Ds Mk III and other brands. Personally I like the idea of an extended reach 1.5 crop mode for a FF regardless of FPS, simply it will lessen the lenses I need to carry.

Following seem to be going on outside the Nikon fence, in the rumor pipes and/or in the works / on market:

Canon DSLR –

1Ds Mk III with 21.6MP is rumored to be in stores end of this year (see http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/Canon_1DS_MkIII.html). The 1D Mk III that was presented at PMA can perhaps indicate some improvements over 1Ds Mk II. Following is from Canon UK PR of the 1D MkIII “Dual DIGIC III processors drive the camera’s high speed, high resolution performance, and bring 14-bit image processing to the EOS series for the first time.“ Further, the 1D Mk III is claimed to have remarkable low noise at high ISO.

Sony –

Mock-ups of what is Sony’s dream/plan for two future upper segment DSLRs were presented at PMA. Although not directly labeled, they have been interpreted as what seems direct competition to Nikon D3 and Canon 1D(s) MkII/7D series. Also lenses were in mock-up. It is reason to assume that Nikon will be effected by this Sony competition. What about the supply of quality sensors? With the size of Sony as a company, perhaps they will be able to build up to surpass both Nikon and Canon in DSLR sales in future? It also sounds like they are trying to build on the skills and legacies from Minolta and Carl Zeiss, perhaps also Sony film camera experience. See www.engadget.com/2007/03/08/sony-shows-off-alpha-dslr-flagship-and-high-amateurs-models/

Fuji –

S5 is a very interesting camera to me, except it is DX and D200 body. Reading in forums, it seems to produce remarkable colors, low noise at high ISO and incredible DR. In fact I near bought the S3 one year ago, but went for the D200 only because it will be easier to sell used. I honest do not like my D200 (too noisy, do not like the colors i.e. prefer better colors in RAW so I save time in PP). My personal wish is that Nikon/Fuji would put together a FF camera by increasing the size of the S5 sensor, perhaps built on the F6. The S5 sensor measures 23.0x15.5mm. If a FF 35x24mm sensor that translates to 2.356 the size of the S5 sensor, which could mean a 28.5MP camera (14.25+14.25MP, perhaps equal to around a 22MP normal bayer sensor, per what S5 people claim that the S5 seem to be around 8MP when comparing to D200?). My F100 has 3.5 FPS and I barely used that speed, so I would not mind that speed or slower... S5 technology translated to FF would work super for me.

Mamiya MF Digital –

ZD appears to be on sales in Japan, Hong Kong and UK from what I can tell from internet (www. kakaku.com, www.tincheungcamera.com.hk, www.jessops.com). It has a 21.8MP sensor with dimensions 48x36mm. See http://www.mamiya-op.co.jp/home/camera/eng/digital/zd/. Price in HK about 10,000 USD.

Pentax MF Digital –

Pentax 645D 18MP MF camera is rumored to be in market this year. Price in rumors say 8,000 USD. Officially Pentax has said “This product will be continuously upgraded by incorporating newly developed image sensors, with its final effective megapixels expected to reach a 30-megapixel level.” Nothing on price for a 30MP variant…
See
www.pentax.co.jp/english/news/2006/200646.html
www.engadget.com/2007/02/21/pentax-busts-out-hasselbladian-31-6-megapixel-645-digital/
forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1036&message=20121509&changemode=1
forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1036&message=22487180&q=645&qf=m

Canon MF Digital –

Rumors and speculations… see http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/canon_medium_format_2ff.html


Nikon – What is Nikon up to, any D3X to compete???



Personally I prefer around 20MP FF 36x24mm sensor (the more they can squeeze in to quality the better). Perhaps somewhat 20-24MP is about max what can be utilized by current top grade 35mm SLR lenses?

The goal with my own photography is to make prints that on their wide end measure 1m to 1.5m for a future house. I am an expat and work in different countries and also travel much (I have lived in 9 countries and been to 35). I view my hobby as my artistic creation in capturing images in different countries (primarily landscapes and scenic, and people living traditional lives). The Pentax 645D is interesting because it will offer 18-30MP and a more quality MF image than a 20MP FF DSLR, but perhaps the price will be very high. Even a 18.6MP version could be competitor to upcoming D3X and 1Ds MkIII. Rumored price is not that much different than the 1Ds MkII. The Mamiya ZD is interesting also, but the sensor is now old and perhaps Nikon D3X and Canon 1DS MkIII will offer me better options, unless… if Mamiya was to surprise us with an updated sensor at similar price... Seems with all competition amounting in the FF to lower MF segment prices may fall, or??

Of course, my preference is primarily for a Nikon with a FF 35x24mm sensor, simply because I already have Nikkor lenses and those lenses are very good. I would prefer a Fuji sensor, which is very uncertain if Nikon/Fuji will put into a FF camera any time soon. In choosing next camera also the range of the lenses will be important to me. My preferred range has been 28-70 but I would prefer to replace it with a 24-120mm, either f/2.8 or f/4 pro grade (Nikon please!). My 17-35 and heavy 70-200 will be keepers.

MF with Mamiya and Pentax does not offer as attractive zoom ranges, current offerings I look at are (in brackets are 35mm equivalents, considering camera crop factors):
(a) Pentax 33-55 (26-45) f4.5, 45-85 (36-72) f4.5, 80-160 (65-130) f4.5
(b) Mamiya 35mm (26mm) f3.5 fixed focal length, 55-110 (39-79) f4.5, 105-210 (75-150) f4.5
The tradeoff in focal length from a DSLR system from Nikon or Canon would be benefit of using a larger sensor than FF 35 and thus increased image quality. Does anyone have any comments on photographic usability of MF compared to 35 format? I would be new to MF.

Sensor size does matter, and FF 35mm sensors are today already comparable to MF, thus comparing D3 and 1Ds MkIII in direct competition to MF is very realistic. See http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/back-testing.shtml

If the D3 had a 1.5 crop mode (reducing MP size same time of course), the benefit would be that if a 24-120mm zoom would be available we could reach to 180mm in 35mm equivalent. I rarely use tele and prefer the 24-120mm range, but I wish to further develop my skills in wide with my 17-35 and perhaps also add a Sigma 12-24mm (softer of course).

I do not like the rumor that Nikon may adopt a 1.1 crop mode for the D3. My 28-70 would become unacceptable (and a 24-120 would become a 26.2-132 instead, yuck!). Of course… if Nikon came out with something like a 22-110mm zoom it could perhaps be livable…. Yet, why a 1.1x crop mode confusion? Due to light falloff? Reading Canon forums, the falloff of wide zooms for the Canon FF seem to be at large aperture but go away by smaller, and for wide angles we normally use small aperture for large DOF, at least I do for landscape. Canon are also updating their 16-35mm to a 16-35 f2.8 L II lens per PMA which may address the falloff problem on that particular lens. If Nikon will in fact present a rumored D3X with 1.1x factor, perhaps all it relates to is marketing bogus to avoid develop proper wide angles at Nikon! More so... if Nikon were to declare that they will commit to 1.1x factor crop... then essentially they will in long run only be able to get out 90% of the MP quality that Canon will, due using smaller area of the glass...

On 1.1x, Ken Rockwell says

(a) About D3X rumor, “The latest official rumors as of 28 February 2007 confirm a 1.1x sensor, which ticks me off since it's not really full frame; it's only 90% of full frame. That's stupid, but saves money for Nikon. 1.1x stinks because it loses the far corners of my ultra-wide lens' shots. The edges are the most important part of a wide image and why I pay big bucks for wide lenses.”, per www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3x.htm

(b) About his beloved Mamiya 43mm (21mm in 35mm equivalent) “In fact, the falloff can add drama and keep the viewers attention directed towards the center of the image. Ansel Adams took great pains to introduce this effect deliberately as "edge burning." See his book "The Print" for details.”, per www.kenrockwell.com/mamiya/43.htm

A good feature for the D3 would be tripod thread on also the side of camera, for better (more solid) vertical mounting. See photos of the Pentax above. However, given the weight of pro glass I think it should be moved further forward than is now customary, since it would better balance a camera with heavy lens. Incorporated Arca-Swiss mount could be an option perhaps...


Any comments, thoughts or ideas from others please?

Regards,
Anders

EXPATRIATE WITH A HOBBY
Photo Aspiration - Artistic Pointing of Camera at Natural Light
Engineer and Architect - Aspiration of Arts in Technology
www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=601809

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