Advice on D2H, thinking of buying
I have been looking at the D2H since the price has dropped. I really do like my F5 not only for the ability to get the shot but also for its construction. I could buy a D100 or D70 but I enjoy the feel of my F5. I own an N80 and I do not use it since I purchased the F5, I just like how the F5 handles.
Ok here is the question I just purchased a Epson 2200 printer and I'm worried that the "low" megapixel count of the D2h will not give me good prints. There are plenty of post saying otherwise and wanted to see if people still felt the same. I really do like the D2H and I'm hoping I can get good prints up to 13x19. I'm hoping to hear what your thoughts are on printing large prints with the D2H. The D2X is not in my future just to pricey.
Sorry about revisitng what has been discussed often, I just wanted to see if peoples thoughts have changed.
#1. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 0Fri 07-Jan-05 09:00 PM
Run, don't walk and buy the D2H. If you like your F5 you will love it. The D2H handles even better. I too was worried about 13 X 19 print quality. IMO, the camera is up to the job. I also have an Epson 2200.
Good Luck, Sparky Shaver
#2. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 1Fri 07-Jan-05 09:08 PM
I am so close but if i make a mistake and don't get good prints my wife will kill me, laughing. I have always been able to justify my NAS by showing good pictures. You have me inching towards my credit card already, will not take much for me to go over the edge.
#3. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 2Fri 07-Jan-05 09:41 PM
You have me
>inching towards my credit card already, will not take much
>for me to go over the edge.
well then, let me be the one to push you over the edge.
i own a d2h, but not an f5. by most accounts they're similar in build and features (af sensor, etc.). i love my d2h, especially the af sensor (cam2000). although it has 2/3 the pixels of my d100, i don't hesitate to make 12x18 prints, and others have reported great results up to 20x30" (i can't vouch for this). it's certainly no problem with iso 200-800. above that it can get tricky depending on the circumstances, but noise reduction s/w like neat image or noise ninja can help.
i don't see any digital cameras in your profile, although you say you have an epson 2200. if you're not familiar w/postprocessing (pscs, pse, capture) then beware that there's a learning curve, and it's steep.
if i had to do it again today, i'd buy a d2h - the d2x isn't worth it to me. maybe i'll "upgrade" when the d3s come out.
but if you buy it, you'll have to change the comment in your profile:
"This is my third Nikon and would not buy any other SLR."
#4. "From a D2H Owner" | In response to Reply # 0
I have a D2H...I have an Epsom 2200.
I prnt up to full size 13" x 19" all of the time and I'm selling a fair # of them (not all this size).
I have absolutely no problems with it whatsoever.
Stop fretting..go get yourself one of these machines!
Images @ www.pbase.com/soonipi1957
#5. "RE: From a D2H Owner" | In response to Reply # 4Fri 07-Jan-05 11:54 PM
I now have my wife reading with me, the only digital I have is some pocket camera that was given to me. I use the Epson with my film prints. I would say its a safe bet by sometime next week I will own a D2H given the great replies. My lovely wife is not looking over my shoulder now, I was attempting to prove how good the D2h is for the money. Have been a member on Nikonians for years and I have always thought the advice is top notch. If B&H was open tomorrow I think I would be driving down. So far I'm only hearing good things NAS is really kicking in.
#6. "RE: From a D2H Owner" | In response to Reply # 5Sat 08-Jan-05 09:26 AM
in my previous post i should have said that if the rumored upgrade to the d2h materializes and offers (in descending order of importance):
1) lower noise, especially at high isos
2) iso 100
3) more pixels
at a reasonable cost then i'll probably upgrade. but i'm still happy.
you'll need something like photoshop cs for editing. the learning curve is steep, but well worth the effort. there are forums for photoshop and capture that are quite helpful.
#7. "RE: From a D2H Owner" | In response to Reply # 6
#8. "RE: From a D2H Owner" | In response to Reply # 7Sat 08-Jan-05 01:08 PM
I highly recommend you upgrade your software so that you can handle the NEF files from your D2H. I shoot JPEG and NEF with my D70, but only NEF with the D2H. Nikon Capture is a must have in my opinion (I have Photoshop Elements, not PS CS).
#11. "RE: From a D2H Owner" | In response to Reply # 7Sat 08-Jan-05 07:41 PM
if you have ps7 then imho the best path for you is either stick with ps7 (if adobe's d2h plugin is compatible with ps7) or upgrade to pscs. upgrading is less money than buying it from scratch. i have both capture and pscs and i much prefer pscs.
i agree w/virtually everything brian said.
as for your hesitation due to the added expenses of cf cards, software, etc., remember that they can be used for a long time. i don't regret my move to digital, despite the additional expenses. for instance - the d2h can use 80x cf cards, but my 40x cards work fine.
#9. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 0
Eric........I have owned a D2H since June 2004, along with a D70 that was purchased more recently. I also have the Epson 2200 printer, so can speak from personal experience.
I photograph wildlife primarily and can make great looking prints from most images at 13x19. Where the 4 megapixels have a limitation (no matter how good those 4 megapixels are!) is when you have an image where the subject is pretty small in the frame and you have to do heavy cropping. The D70 images are better able to deal with being cropped and still retaining enough detail to maybe make a 13x19 print. Of course, not having the subject large enough in the frame isn't an issue with most photographers. In my case, photographing something like a bald eagle, even when using a 500mm AFS lens with the TC17e (a total of 850mm!) is hit or miss. They tend to be wary of humans and one can't get too close to them.
I can assure you that 13x19" prints are easily done on the Epson 2200 with most D2H images......as long as you have a decent understanding of Photoshop. At some point I do suggest buying Photoshop CS, although you can easily make do with Photoshop 7, but I suggest spending the $100 for Nikon Capture 4 in that case. Just some quick tips, based on my limited experience with using Photoshop and then making large prints:
1. Making major changes in things like increasing exposure, contrast, and sharpening, will give you more digital noise, so try to not overuse the tools.
2. If you do need to use the Photoshop tools that lead to more noise, there is still a way to reduce the noise without degrading the image too much. I use Neat Image, which can be a wonderful addition to your software (I hear that Noise Ninja works well too).
3. You will likely find a big difference (a positive one) if you take your images as NEF files (RAW) instead of as jpegs. Convert to Tiff files and then work on them in Photoshop.
4. Save your sharpening (USM) as the last thing you do....AFTER resizing the image for printing!
5. When upsizing the image, do it by no more than 10% increments, using "Bicubic Smoother" rather than "Bicubic" each time. I notice less loss of detail that way.
Finally, if you feel that money is an issue, the D70 is one heck of a nice digital camera body for less than half the price of the D2H. Yes, the D2H has more features and a pro feel to it, but the D70 is a VERY nice camera.....and I often use it instead of the D2H. Remember that digital photography gear is relatively new when compared to film gear. The quality keeps going up and the prices keep coming down over time. Just like the D2H just dropped from $3200 to $1999 after only a couple of years, the D2X will likely one day be more affordable new than it will be for its first couple of years on the market. If you have any qualms about spending $2000 on a digital body now, consider the D70 and wait for a couple of years to buy your "pro" camera.
I use an Epson 2200 printer and have made consistently good prints of 13x19.......except when the subject was very small in the frame (flying bald eagles that I couldn't get any closer to). It is only in those situations that I noticed a problem. In other words, you can't expect a 4 megapixel camera, no matter how good those megapixels are, to allow for a 13x19" print when you crop heavily (meaning cropping by 40% or more). For that, you really would need a camera with more megapixels.
Images from the D2H are more "filmlike" than from the D70, at least to me.
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#10. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 9Sat 08-Jan-05 05:22 PM
Thanks Brian & Ted,
I guess I need to purchase Nikon Capture at the least, not that expensive 80-100 dollars I can swing that. All these little expenses keep adding up software, microdrive... I have not given much thought to cropping, I don't do it heavy in my film. I like that you said the D2H is more film like and that you are getting good prints. Have heard good things about the D70 but I know I would always wonder if I should have gone for the D2H. With that said if I can't get good prints, then it's a waste. So far as in past discussions it appears that the D2H can deliver.
Thanks agian to all, Eric
BTW: Brian thanks for the editing tips, as soon as I can convince myself and my wife that it's a good thing to get the D2H, I will put it to use.
#12. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 10plaintiger Registered since 16th Jan 2008Sat 08-Jan-05 08:54 PM
>little expenses keep adding up software, microdrive...
but think of all the money (and time) you're going to save over using film!
there are three kinds of people: those
who can count, and those who can't.
#13. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 10stabone76 Registered since 08th Jan 2005Sat 08-Jan-05 11:37 PM
It seems you are in the same boat as i am. I cant decide between the D70 and the D2H. I was leaning towareds the D2H yesterday, but, im swaying back to the D70 myself. It should be good enough for me until i know more what i want. If im not sure if i need the extras the D2H will give me, then i probably dont need them. At least, thats what im hoping. I really cant afford to get a D2H if im disappointed with my D70, but im not sure if i really need the D2H in my current situation. Its just that dang price drop scratching at my wallet.
#16. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 13Sun 09-Jan-05 04:38 AM
Eric is looking for large print quality; however, since you're not sure if you need the features of the D2H, then I recommend you try to rent both models, if possible, for a day or better yet, a weekend.
I needed a camera for a sporting event last October and I knew ahead of time that the inferior AF speed and accuracy of my D70, as well as the lack of a high speed sync (to use fill flash at shutter speeds faster than 1/500) meant that I needed to rent a D2H kit. So I rented a D2H for the day and my first few hours with that D2H in my hands (way before I had a chance to learn how to set-up the camera) yielded these shots: www.pbase.com/turnert/cyclocross
Well, I was instantly hooked on the D2H for action work. So I ended up buying a new one for $1,850 a couple of weeks ago. However, I've come to learn that my D70 is still better for indoor/low light/high ISO scenarios. And it makes a better casual, walk around body because it's small.
#14. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 0
I have always loved the feel of Nikon's better film cameras (F5 and F100) and missed that feel and the capabilities on both the D100 and D70. The D70 has been my primary camera since April 2003 and I have been very pleased with it. However, I missed that F5 heft and speed. Two weeks ago, I ordered a D2H. I got it Wednesday. All I can say is WOW! The focusing speed of this camera is outstanding and the feel is, if anything, better than the F5. I have taken more good bird flight shots in the last three days than I took in the previous year with other cameras. On one sequence, I picked up a great blue heron flying toward me from about 50 yards away to a spot about 20 feet away. I shot a series of 18 shots during this short flight and the camera tracked the focus beautifully. I shot all of these at RAW plus JPEG fine. The machine-gun speed of this camera will shock you.
I'm still uncertain about image quality. What I see on my computer looks very good. I have made no prints yet but others whose advice I trust have testified to high quality 13 x 19 prints. I have a 2200 also so I'll be testing that in the next few days.
So far, I'm extremely pleased -- and it has helped relieve the anguish of waiting for the D2X.
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#15. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 14UnixMac Registered since 16th Dec 2004Sun 09-Jan-05 04:00 AM
For what it's worth from a amateur user, I love the D2H, especially that amazing 8fps burst speed for 40 shots... With small kids and action shots, it's great to stick a 2GB micro drive inside this baby point the camera at the subject(s) and lay on the shutter for 5 seconds and capture 40 shots ,,, best part... since it's not film, the cost is $0.00
IF you don't like any of them, just delete them on the spot. Sure the D70 is a great camera, and from what I've read has some advantages to the D2H, but the speed and build quality of the D2 is in a separate league.
BTW, I highly recommend Photoshop CS, but wait a couple of months as CS 2.0 is coming out soon..
D2H, SB-800, Nikkor 24-120, 60mm
Mac G4 & G5, OS X, iPhoto &
#17. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 15Sun 09-Jan-05 06:00 AM
Hi and to many thanks to mention,
I was just thinking about how much I have spent on film in 2004. I download my film data from my F5 and I went through 93 rolls of film and I’m sure that cost me over a thousand dollars. I know the D70 is a hell of a camera, but after picking up my N80 today it just does not have that snap when I focus with an older lens that my F5 has.
Ted your photo’s are great and that’s what I’m used to a camera that can focus quickly. I would love to have my F5 speed and be able to do my own at home and delete what I do not want. I lug around my F5 like some do a point and shoot so I’m used to weight. I know I will not be disappointed with the features of the D2H so my only concern is printing up to 13x19. Van let me know how you think your prints came out. I think if the D2h cannot fulfill that I would rather wait than buy a D70 or D100, I really like the feel of my F5.
It is nice that after looking at he archives and current boards, including this one that the D2H still gets great reviews. Reminds me of the F5, even though older people still enjoy how well it can do what it was designed to do. My wife is even starting to give, laughing. I just started the cost thing, 93 rolls 2004 – 115 in 2003.
I always look around on the web for information but in the end I always rely on Nikonian’s to give me quick and accurate information. Please if anyone has more I’m listening.
#18. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 17vfnewman Basic MemberSun 09-Jan-05 12:52 PM
>so my only concern is printing up to 13x19.
I'm sure there are plenty of D2H users here, including myself, that would be willing to send you image files that you can have printed so you can evaluate for yourself if it meets your standards.
#22. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 18yrabin Registered since 21st Dec 2004Sun 09-Jan-05 08:39 PM
I looked at your gallery - not the first time I must say - and your pictures are nothing short of outstanding!
When I see all this color and detail from a D1 I am thinking I must be missing something. I have recently bought a D2h given my D1 started showing age - missing pictures from time to time. I figured why bother spending hundreds of $ just to have someone look at it. Now I am rethinking my decision. Looks like so much can be had from a 2.7 Meg camera - why give it up! So I will look into repairing it.
Never the less - I am still awed by your pictures and hoping you can share some of your magic mostly in regard to post processing tools and processes you use.
#24. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 22vfnewman Basic MemberMon 10-Jan-05 02:36 AM
>I looked at your gallery - not the first time I must say -
>and your pictures are nothing short of outstanding!
Thank you very much, Yuval.
>I have recently bought a D2h
>given my D1 started showing age - missing pictures from time
>to time. I figured why bother spending hundreds of $ just to
>have someone look at it. Now I am rethinking my decision.
>Looks like so much can be had from a 2.7 Meg camera - why
>give it up! So I will look into repairing it.
How old are the batteries you are using, and when the camera "missed pictures" was it shooting black frames, and was the battery indicator "low" at the time. Mine started shooting black frames on me one time, and I discovered it was the fault of an old battery.
And yes, despite its age, the D1 can still produce fantastic pictures.
>Never the less - I am still awed by your pictures and hoping
>you can share some of your magic mostly in regard to post
>processing tools and processes you use.
I don't really think I do anything special in the way of post-processing. I set the camera to "normal" tone, sharpening, etc, and use Photoshop to set the levels and curves, and pay careful attention to getting enough, but not too much, sharpening on the final image. I don't have any special or secret settings that I use.
#26. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 24yrabin Registered since 21st Dec 2004Mon 10-Jan-05 03:54 PM
Thanks again Victor.
As for the my pictures' quality - I suppose I can blame myself only, now that I have all first class equipment.
As for the D1 - you are probably right. The symptoms are exactly the ones you are describing, and yes my batteries are OLD - as old as the camera, and that's probably, like 5 years now. I'll surely look into that.
#19. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 0
HI Eric (again),
I was one of the first to get into this thread. You already have my opinion concerning the D2H. Now after all these positive posts, you have a near 100% approval of the D2H.
What more do you need?? Life doesn't offer absolute truths about anything. At some point you have to have some faith in the opinions of those who know. Is that not what you were after? It's one of the great lessons of life. I think you want somthing you cannot obtain without simply going out and buying the camera. Go buy it and quit dithering.
Sorry to be so blunt but your indecision is close to a slap in the face to those who took the time and effort to help you whose advice you apparently cannot accept.
Good Luck, Sparky Shaver
#20. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 19Sun 09-Jan-05 04:51 PM
Hi to all and thanks
I have decided that with all the good reiviews and my wife accepting that I'm not letting it go, that I will get my own D2H sometime next week. Hey Sparky take it easy and thanks for all your help. I can't wait to get my own and join the digital arena. I have been fighting it for a long time and I'm the last of my friends to use film. With the glowing responses, price reduction and the savings in film I'm going to do it.
So to all thanks and I'm throughly convinced. Sparky get ready for the newbie questions, laughing.
Thanks again, Eric
BTW: will send out a post when I finnaly have it, I'm sure telling you all how amazed I am with the photos.
#21. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 20Sun 09-Jan-05 07:39 PM
Good. I'm glad to hear it. I don't think you will be sorry. It really is a great camera. Sorry to be hard on you. Let us know how it goes.
Take Care, Sparky Shaver
#23. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 20Sun 09-Jan-05 09:48 PM
You will be happy with the D2H as long as you know it's limitations. It will certainly not be the best tool for everything.
And speaking of film, consider this. I photographed the National Cyclocross Championships last month and over the 3 day event I used 3 to 4 1GB flash cards each day on average (about 7 furious hours of shooting each day). Shooting RAW compressed on the D2H, that's 300 pics per card, or about 1,000 shots each day. This would be similar to the numher of shots a wedding photog would grab in a day -- maybe less.
So, how much would it have cost to buy film and process it for 3,000 pics from that weekend? I used to spend about $13 for slide film and processing. Now, I would have been more conservative with film. But assuming I still captured 3,000 shots, I saved about $1,000 with the D2H -- not to mention the time to travel back and forth to the lab and the endless hours scanning all of the keepers.
#25. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 0
I think you are already convinced in buying the camera. Just one more thing to consider that will really lock the deal for you. You mentioned you liked the handling of the F5 and its construction. Don't overlook the ergonomic factors in the various camera bodies out there. The D2H would feel right at home in your hands, which is what I enjoy most about mine.
See you in the woods!
Graf Nature & Wildlife Photography
See you in the woods!
Graf Nature & Wildlife Photography
#27. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 25npl Nikonian since 09th Mar 2004Mon 10-Jan-05 05:09 PM
When the price of the D2H came down my camera salesman was nice enough (and smart enough) to lend me one for a couple of days. See if yours will do the same. If so, I have little doubt that you will do what I did - buy it!
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#28. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 27Mon 10-Jan-05 08:09 PM
Thank you all that helped me make up my mind on the D2H. Just got off the phone and ordered my D2H,4 Gig harddrive(start me off), Nikon Capture software and what I hope will fit the Dk-2 eyecup. Can't wait I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas. My wife is even excited, she owns a decorative painting business and takes photos of her work, now we can do it at home and take as many pictures as we like.
Thanks again, Eric
#29. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 28Mon 10-Jan-05 08:34 PM
That's great news Eric -- glad to hear you've made the plunge. The D2H is arguably the best value today in a pro DSLR.
I just want to warn you that you may not be happy with the out-of-camera results at first. This is particularly true if you're new to digital capture and are more used to seeing your images for the first time as slides on a light table.
Once you've learned the camera and developed a reasonably efficient workflow with Capture and Photoshop, you will be much happier and will likely find your film use drop off exponentially.
#31. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 29Mon 10-Jan-05 08:48 PM
I have been reading up on layers and all kinds ot things that I did not know. This will be like the old DOS Computers when Windows first came out, learning how to tweak your settings all over again. I look forward to to having control over my work. Still not giving up my F5, I'm sure there will be comments that give it a month and you wont pick up the F5 much.
BTW as far as the D2H and production being stopped - I have a friend who handles a Nikon account and was trying to get me a discount and when they tried they said that camera was not avaiable for the discount, not sure if the discount did not apply or if the camera was no longer available. Just adding to the rumor mill.
#30. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 28nrothschild Registered since 25th Jul 2004Mon 10-Jan-05 08:42 PM
I see you already ordered it so this is too little too late, but just in case you start missing the 2mpx extra you never had...
I am a new owner of a D2H after using a D70 for over 6 months. I too was worried about 4 mpx, especially since I felt like I was taking a step backwards at twice the price. Isn't each new expensive camera supposed to have MORE not LESS?
After one day of shooting some seagulls in flight (they are tougher than the real birds we want to shoot!) I can say this:
Before you worry about how big you can enlarge an image, you have to GET THE SHOT that is worth enlarging!
Since you are coming from an F5, you will never know what you "missed" by not getting a D70 or D100. I have no opinion on enlarging other than what I read on the net. But I do know that the D2H is awesome for any kind of action shots. The combination of the CAM2000 AF and 8FPS motor drive is a killer combination that blows away the lesser bodies. I think it will be a good trade.
I shot 850 images in two hours, mostly birds in flight. With the proper settings it was almost impossible to get a truly OOF shot. With the D70 my in-focus yield could have been as low as 5-10% depending om the lens, TC used if any, and the shooting conditions.
my Nikonians gallery.
#32. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 28Mon 10-Jan-05 10:57 PM
congratulations. you have been assimilated. resistance was futile.
it's a great camera.
as for the "4 Gig harddrive", i assume you don't really mean a hard drive. my guess is either a microdrive or compact flash card.
fwiw, i prefer the cf cards due to the impossibility of mechanical failure (like a hard drive).
i use 2 1gb cards and have never run out, even shooting raw.
#33. "RE: Advice on D2H, thinking of buying" | In response to Reply # 32Mon 10-Jan-05 11:42 PM
Yes I meant Microdrive. Yes I know what you mean about failure, putting all your eggs in one basket does concern me. As the prices continue to go down I'm sure I can purchase some other card. I do like the idea that I do ot have to open the camera at all in adverse conditions. I'm going to have to hang my head in shame after busting on all over friends who use digital. Everyone said it will be just a matter of time and I will have to eat my words. Choking here so I have to stop typing.