Who will be the first one to buy that pancake (+question)
I can't wait for someone to buy that new 45 mm and tell me that it's good!!! Anyone's planning to get it? Any idea on the prize?
I NEED a second body! The problem is the $$$. So I have a few questions... I only have autofocus lenses, Would they work with a manual body??? If yes, what body should I get (good compromise)
Will the new FM3a be too expensive. I would love to have a manual focus body with the new pancake to cary around at all times!
Thanks for your help!
#1. "RE: Who will be the first one to buy that pancake (+question)" | In response to Reply # 0Rick Wiese Basic MemberSat 10-Feb-01 07:45 AM
I'm not sure what you have in mind to pay for your manual focus body, but my guess is the new FM3a won't come cheap. After all, a new FM2 will set you back over $400! If I were you I'd shop around and take a serious look at the FE2. It's one of the best cameras Nikon ever made and should last you a lifetime. In fact, I just picked one up on eBay myself and will be using it as a backup to my F3. I was lucky enough to get mine for $200, although you'd be hard pressed to find another at that price -- at least not one in the condition mine is in. You might also take a look at the FA, the FE (precursor to the FE2), or, if you're interested in a fully manual camera the FM or FM2. And your autofocus lenses will be perfectly compatible with all of them (minus the autofocus, of course!). Hope you find the perfect camera!
#5. "FE2..." | In response to Reply # 1f8bthere Basic MemberSat 10-Feb-01 01:34 PM
>If I were you I'd
>shop around and take a
>serious look at the FE2.
>It's one of the best
>cameras Nikon ever made and
>should last you a lifetime.
Absolutely Agreed! The BEST ever manual exposure... Green flag, floating needle... you can see deviations in minute increments.
#10. "RE: FE2..." | In response to Reply # 5nkcllewis Charter MemberSat 10-Feb-01 08:39 PM
FYI, I recently sold my FE-2 to afford an N80. I only sold the FE-2 because the stopping mechanism on the lever action film winder finally wore down. I took many a good picture with the FE-2 on a butterfly rig since it has TTL flash at 1/250 sec. I used to own an F3 and I liked the FE-2 better. Also, the FE-2 has mirror lockup with the self timer so it is a great still life camera too. I have access to another FE-2 which has the same worn down stopping mechanism for the film winder. It works ok as long as you remember not to wind it twice. If I were you, I'd shop around for an FE-2 but make sure you have it checked out before you plunk down more than $200. Or better still, save your money and purchase the FM3a.
Kent in VA
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"A poor worker always blames his tools" Anonymous
#2. "RE: Who will be the first one to buy that pancake ( question)" | In response to Reply # 0
The new FM3A will be expensive, but these bodies tend to last a lifetime, so they turn out to be very reasonable, unlike say the latest and greatest autoeverything camera whose value can drop over the years.
If the FM2 stateside costs $400 ( this is cheap to me) then converting the costs mentioned in the UK to US market value, it would be:
In the U.K, it would be £600 and £300( rip-off U.K you see)respectively.
You could of course wait for the prices to achieve street cred or
possibly get them early 2nd hand/used. The pancake lens looks good and worth a wait but the FM3A could be put on hold while you check out something like an FM2N or indeed an FE2/FA. The basic specs are identical. Good shooting.
#7. "RE: Who will be the first one to buy that pancake ( question)" | In response to Reply # 2jwb Basic MemberSat 10-Feb-01 03:10 PM
Someone on a previous discussion here earlier in the week worked at a camera store and had the MSRP list from Nikon for these items. They listed the FM3a at $820 MSRP so street price may come in around your estimate of $600+ (For comparison, I think the F100 MSRP is around $1400 and street price just dropped under $1000 at a couple sites.) As far as the 45mm/2.8, the list from Nikon had a MSRP of $450, so street price may be a little under your $400 estimate, so possible good new there. Of course I don't know if all the stores will ask full MSRP at first and for how long.
Just thought I'd relay the info.
#3. "price is relative..." | In response to Reply # 0
In 1985 I bought a FM2 for about 500 Dollars. It has been in my bag for every photo trip, saved the day several times when my battery dependant cameras got cold. I still have and use it today... it has never been serviced, never failed and it still gives me perfect slides... the shutter is dead on.
Doing the math, I have spent about 30 Dollars a year to own this camera... it will no doubt go down to 15 Dollars per year and still be working.
The camera would have been effectively (over time) cheaper than some of the other models being offered today... even if it had cost a thousand Dollars.
I'm buying a couple of FM3s... at my age, someone will inherit them. How many people will pass on their N80s in 20 or 30 years?
These cameras are cheap!
#4. "Everything is relative..." | In response to Reply # 3photobri Basic MemberSat 10-Feb-01 01:26 PM
How many people will pass on their N80s in 20 or 30 years?
They may make cameras with more functions and bodies with more weight,and you will pay extra for those, but the if the N80 is taken care of for 20 to 30 years, you will be able to pass it on in 20 to 30 years.
Fine Art Wedding Photojournalism
#6. "RE: price is relative..." | In response to Reply # 3Sat 10-Feb-01 02:33 PM
My next body will be a manual one for sure... I like the idea of not being batterie-dependent and definitely prefer Metal body over plastic-ones. That's why I wouldn't go for an F80/N80. The camera functions are nice (except for the manual lens incompatibility - is it true, I hear different reports about that) but I don't like the construction that seems weak to me. I don't know if it would support the treatment I have infliged my F70 last summer... Since I am low on cash for now, I will defenitly wait. (I cut off on my food to process some film this week!) }> I would really love the FM3a - pencake combo but I will have to save some money. It will be probably 1500 $ canadians here so I'll probably order from B&H... If I hear good report on the pancake! So the first one the buy it must post a report without delays! Popular photography will probably do it, but there nothing like a nikonian's report!
Have a nice week-end
#9. "RE: price is relative..." | In response to Reply # 3
granted, the FM2 is a mechanical marvel, but keep your eye on the foam rubber mirror cushion. I bought mine in 1984 and it finally had to be replaced last summer. I took a picture and the viewfinder stayed black. Panic. Found the mirror stuck to the black goo like a fly stuck in flypaper. Had everything mechanical checked out, but it only needed mirror cushion and light seals.---scott
"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
#11. "RE: Who will be the first one to buy that pancake (+question)" | In response to Reply # 0
LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-01 AT 11:44 AM (GMT)
as for the performance expected from the new 45/2.8 pankake: since it is a simple 4 elements Tessar type lens, it is not supposed to deliver super sharpness. We will see what it will able to do, but I do expect it to be fairly contrasty, not super sharp. It seems to me its market appeal should rather be found in its compactness, nice finish, and the ROM enabling complete exposure meter compliance with even the newest AF cameras.
The new FM3A is extremely appealing, but if one is on a budget and does not care about AE and TTL flash, an FM2n would do just as well. The only thing I dislike is the "Nikon" engraving on the front: it is written with the inclined fonts found on the new autoplastic cameras, rather than with the elder, straight fonts found on FM2, FE, F3 and the other elder models.
I am planning to substitute the screens of my FM2ns with the new brighter K3 and E3 type made for the FM3A, if it is possible. Maybe later I will sell one and buy an FM3A.
#12. "RE: Who will be the first one to buy that pancake (+question)" | In response to Reply # 11N80 Charter MemberThu 15-Feb-01 07:41 PM
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-01 AT 10:42 PM (GMT)
Based on what I have read here and elsewhere I'm going to open myself up to ridicule here and call the appeal of this 45mm P lens pure gadget appeal. It looks to me that its entire selling point is just "wow, look at that thing". I'm not saying it won't be Nikon's best seller ever, I'm just saying that if it is, it is NOT because it is one of their best in any catagory but size.
If this lens was comparable in cost to the 50mm 1.8 or a little higher, say $150 US, it would make a lot of sense. But at $450 US it begs a few questions. First, why isn't it autofocus? If it costs $450, put good manual focus action in it and make it autofocus too. Again, I suspect the appeal has more to do with gadget envy and a certain amount of nostalgia. Second, what do you get from this lens that you don't get from the 50mm 1.8 AF (or for that matter the 1.4 which IS a D lens)? Sure, it is thinner and a little lighter but for $350 more than the 1.8 and $200 more than the 1.4, ounce -for-ounce and pound-for-pound that just doesn't make sense to me. Does that 5mm in wider angle make a difference? I can't see it. What about minimum f/stop. 2.8, nice but it aint 1.8 like my light little 50. So what you get is a MF lense, at a fixed (and not all that interesting 45mm,) with a fast but not very fast fstop for a normal focal length prime that looks neat, is small and works even on N80s and N65s at a price higher than either my 28-105 or my 70-300ED. Big deal. Nikon can keep this one. If I'm going to shell out over $400 bucks for a lens I'll go for the 18-35.
When I saw this lens I really wanted it, expecting its price to be commensurate with its true utility. At $450 I now find the prospect quite silly. What have I missed? Who out there is going to buy one? If anyone _is_ going to buy one I would be interested what other lenses are on your wish list that you are skipping over in order to get a cute, flat ,MF, normal lens expected to produce 'average' image quality?
George the Curmudgeon
My Nikonians Gallery is here:
#13. "RE: Who will be the first one to buy that pancake (+question)" | In response to Reply # 12Thu 15-Feb-01 09:44 PM
My next purchase would logically be a 500 f/4 AFS, but since I don't have ten thousand dollars right now, I will have to wait (a long time!!! )). I want a longer lens and I can't resolve myself to attach a teleconverter to my 300 mm (I don't want to sacrifice sharpness). F/4 is already slow and I don't think the autofocus would work on my N70 with an automatic teleconverter. I'm also not sure about attaching a non Nikon optic on this wonderfull lens so maybe I will go for the TC-301.... (but that will make a 600 f/8... manual focus... (and the TC-301 is 1000$ CAN here so.... I have not set my mind about these thing yet. (and I doesn't need to, I'm out of money anyway!)
After all the reply I got here, I have decided not to consider the 45mm pancake anymore... anyway for 450$ (probably will be near a thousand canadian here, I can get a top quality point and shot if I ever want to have something on me all the time)
So my next purchase will probably be another body (don't know wich one yet) and if I ever win the loterie, I will definitly buy a 300mm AF-S, a 500mm AF-S, TC-14E, TC-20E and a F5... but that is only in my dreams!
Thank you for the advise on the 45mm!
Have a good time!
#14. "RE: Who will be the first one to buy that pancake ( question)" | In response to Reply # 13
You indeed could get a quality point and shoot, in fact you could get Nikons own 28ti, a terrific model. However, the blurb does say that this pancake lens is aimed at advanced users and will come with the standard enhancements like SIC, round diaphram and CPU. For the price this lens ought to deliver high image quality and the fact it is based on a tessar arrangement has no relevance other than it was employed to produce acompact lens. Now one could buy a compact or place this thing on an FG/EM/FA/FE/FM type body and get truly compact manual/auto convenience. What's more I think it would just fit comfortably in a outisde coat pocket or a good sized inner one.
At the end of the day it all about your own needs, to me this lens would be no good unless it delivers high quality and at this price level, I am sure Nikon think the same way. Sure there is a 'gadget factor' involved that's why people are interested in it, that and the promise of compact Nikon performance. Would I buy one?..er, maybe..like you I have other priorities, so I am not going to be the first one. However if the images taken with it are technically outstanding then I will have a good look at it. There will be lots of takers anyway for this lens and the FM3A(which indeed is a very interesting body,nikonians).
Good shooting fun
#15. "RE: Who will be the first one to buy that pancake ( question)" | In response to Reply # 14N80 Charter MemberSat 17-Feb-01 11:28 AM
LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-01 AT 02:30 PM (GMT)
I agree with all you have said, the form factor of this lens is really enticing. Do you think it will have the quality of a 50 1.8 as far as image goes? As to the FM3A, the press release for the lens suggests it was made especially this camera, however, it says the same about that 'G' model too. The press release also says it has a metallic _finish_ making me wonder if it isn't plastic. It also says it is a "P" model and will meter with all modern functions, does this mean "D" too?
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