What we know from this post is that NIK has a product that will not work with CNX2. What we don't know is what is Nikon doing about a CNX3. An update is long overdue. I guess if you have Photoshop you can still move TIFFs to Photoshop and do added edits there but it is not a very satisfactory solution. That said, one would have to look at the new features to see if it really matters. I am hoping Nikon gets going on an update soon. I have CS5 Extended, but have become so used to using CNX2, I don't want to abandon it to use CS5 alone. Perhaps every CNX2 user needs to email Nikon and push for an upgrade?
I with you, Bob. Capture NX is a great concept adn very good rpoduct adn just needs to have the rough edges trimmed. An upgarde is long overdue. (Perhaps related to releasing new DLSR bodies and earthquate issues?) I really have no desire to abandon a NEF-centric workflow and all of teh advantages taht CNX offers.
Any idea of the most effective way or address to contact Nikon? If we CNX devotees concentrate on the right place, maybe it will help. I imagine it will take a lot of us to have a chance of having any impact.
I think this post by a Nik developer says volumes more than that there's just one Nik program that doesn't work with NX2. It says there is no communication between Nik and Nikon on where Nikon is going with its software development.
As I see it, NX2 has two features. First, it is the best NEF/NRW raw converter because of its color rendering and because it reads and perfectly applies all of Nikon DSLR camera settings. Second, it is an outstanding, but very dated editor. The editor functions are mostly dependent on Nik's U-Point technology. U-Point is what transformed Nikon software from bland Capture 4.X to exciting NX.
Without Nik, it is hard to see Nikon taking NX to the next level that most serious amateurs want from an image editing program. Recent changes to ViewNX and TransferNX are pretty clear indications that Nikon software development leaves a lot to be desired.
Sure, I'll look at NX3, if and when it surfaces, but I now no longer expect much from it. If been waiting for NX3 before undertaking some large editing projects of older files. That wait is over. i figure photoshop has a 6 to 24 month learning curve, depending on how much time I can devote to it. I just need to get started.
Although Nik software and Nikon Corp had been collaborating for a while, it was not until February 2006 that Nik Software, Inc. announced the "Investment and Cooperative Global Agreement with Nikon Corporation."
These two companies were to jointly develop and distribute digital photographic software and technologies and we were happy to share the good news with Nik executives at PMA that year.
The amount of the investment and the percentage in the stock owned by Nikon was not disclosed but it gave the impression to be a minority interest even if important. Nik's press released announced it as "the first external investment in the company", which could imply they were open to -or working on- having others.
The terms of the agreement are private. Early signs of disagreement among the parties were nevertheless evident to industry insiders as rumored in the halls of Photokina that very same year over marketing related items.
Through that collaborative agreement, in my very personal opinion Nik Software made the best interpretation of images made with a Nikon camera.
It would be silly to throw that out the window, despite the gained reputation of Lightroom latest version.
Color Efex 4.0 is already available in 'Complete' or 'Select' editions with 55 or 26 filters respectively, as 32- or 64-bit plugins for Photoshop (at least CS4 version or newer), Lightroom (from v2.6 upwards) or Aperture (v2.1.4 or later); three leading image editors and two possible investors.
Nik Efex 4.0 will -no doubt- further improve Lightroom and Aperture.
What are Nik plans? That is relatively easy to forecast if Nik and Nikon divorce.
What are Nikon plans? Is there a NX3 in the works? Only they know.
But perhaps Nikon, sensing some dissension in the ranks of it loyal customers, ought to give some sign. Many people (many more people?) may give up on Capture NX thinking it is a dead product, or preferring something more up-to-date, and invest the time and money in LR/PS and all of the plug-ins needed. At that point, few would go back to a new version of CNX.
On the other hand, that could also be Nikon's strategy: reduce the CNX customer base so they can justify letting the product die without much backlash.
In my circles, CNX has been one of the things Canon users envy about Nikon. It was a demonstration of Nikon superiority. Would Nikon throw that away and allow Adobe to govern their RAW image interpretation and what camera features are useful?
While I have years of experience with Photoshop and have CS5 Extended, I have always preferred the CNX2 rendering of my NEF's and want to continue using it. Is there someone with clout at Nikon that we could send letters or emails to that might encourage them to update the SW or at least give us an understanding of their plans for CNX2? I am sure if everyone on this forum sent an email to them it certainly would be noticed.
Do you see a possibility that Nikon gives access to its converter to Apple (aperture) and Adobe (Lightroom)? With this both products could have full access to the camera setup controls, and the WB algorithm could be the same between the camera and the application.
Perhaps everyone wins, except Nik --- does it make sense?
Sat 10-Sep-11 11:12 AM | edited Sun 11-Sep-11 06:50 AM by jrp
I also wrote Nikon (for the third time) and got the following response:
Thank you for contacting Nikon Technical Support.
We truly appreciate for choosing us. However, we are not able to provide you with such information. We do not know this information. However, we encourage you to keep visiting our web site for further updates.
I hope you find this information helpful.
Kind regards, XXXXX
Thanks for using Nikon products!
This looks like a canned response to me. I was almost going to pull the trigger on CS5 this morning but I thought about it and decided that CNX2 and CEP (along with Silver Efex and HDR Efex - Lightroom versions) is working fine for me. I don't feel like going through the learning curve of CS5 and there isn't much to gain from the conversion. If, in time, Nikon deserts CNX2 I can make the decision then.
Sat 10-Sep-11 11:54 AM | edited Sat 10-Sep-11 01:59 PM by pdekman
> I was almost going to pull the trigger on CS5 this morning
I hope Nikon can keep upgrading Capture NX for those using it. If not, and you're considering an Adobe product, I would recommend Lightroom as the more natural competitor to CNX and a far better choice for raw photo environment than CS5.
> > If you're considering an Adobe product, I would >recommend Lightroom as the more natural competitor to CNX and >a far better choice for raw photo environment than CS5. > I would second this advice. LR is a much better RAW processing environment, followed by CS5 where necessary. LR does a slick job of passing files out to and back from apps like Photoshop and Photomatix.
Sun 11-Sep-11 06:54 AM | edited Sun 11-Sep-11 07:02 AM by jrp
The reply from Nikon Support USA is absolutely true. Such decisions are made in Japan.
After dealing with a huge Japanese conglomerate for quite some time and helped the Chairman made a good decision, I thought I had earned the right to make this question: How do you manage to make decisions down-to-top? He candidly replied: "We don't. It is hard enough to make decisions top-down and then letting the ranks think the idea was theirs."
One possible reason for the disagreements is that, thinking Nikon was much larger that themselves (Nik), they could throw loads of money into marketing and development on top of their investment. If that was true then, imagine now after the recent natural disaster and accelerated moves of manufacturing outside of Japan.
I do share your views that Capture makes quite a difference for Nikon users, one not equaled by Canon.
Sat 10-Sep-11 08:28 PM | edited Sun 11-Sep-11 12:13 AM by jacsr
I loved the way NX2 worked and the results I used to get from it. I moved to a MAC and the software doesn't work well at all. I called Nikon and they told me NX2 was not compatible with OS X 10.6.5 and up and did not know when an update would be out. I kept trying it and it just would not work. With great regret I moved to Aperture and the application is great. As a DAM application it is second to none, as a raw processor it works very well. I have to work a little harder to achieve the same results I used to get with NX2 but I do get them. I think once I add the full suite of NIK plug-ins I will be able to achieve NX2 like results much easier and quicker.
If NX3 is released this decade I may look at it, but I am not holding my breath.
You can do a search using my ID and NX2 and iMAC and you can review all the steps I took in troubleshooting this issue.
When Nikon acknowledges and confirms that CNX2 is incompatible with Snow Leopard v 10.6.5 and up, for me there is no reason to continue the battle. I have Lion now and Aperture just works and works well.
CNX2 was a good application that many still enjoy. Heck I still have it installed on my W7 64 bit and it works without issue. Others have had issues on this platform.
It is never a good sign when presumed partners are not communicating, as it appears in this case is what is happening between Nik and Nikon.
Glad NX2 works for you, enjoy it while it lasts as any update could quickly change that.
>It appears the long rummored Nik/Nikon divorce is now public:
Hi Lee. Thanks for the link. Interesting reading. I wouldn't call it a divorce - I think that is a bit strong. But it certainly does hint that Nik does have some ambiguity in its development plans related to Nikon software. That is a bit discomforting as I'd love to see a spruced up CNX3 with improved speed and new features. Peter
> I guess it's finally time for me to learn PhotoShop.
I'm afraid so, either Adobe or Apple, I have chosen Adobe. These are all my personal observations from a history in the very fluid high-tech computer HW/SW world, but the pattern fits the available public data.
Now that RAW is accepted directly by the major SW players, CNX is no longer needed to showcase Nikon cameras. Nikon's next move is to make sure that both Adobe and Apple have access to the best possible NEF reader/processor as a plug-in or whatever - and that leaves CNX out in the cold, it has done its job and can not compete with the majors.
Nikon is a camera company so Nikon internally believes that its cameras are, and always will be, better than Canon at taking pictures. (I happen to agree but I am highly biased They do not see CNX as being a necessary part of their corporate goals, and they never will fund anything like what is needed to compete with Apple or Adobe, nor should they.
If Nikon have an incremental $1M to spend on some aspect of R&D then they will spend it to make their sensors or their electronics or their internal algorithms better - those all give them sustainable competitive advantage over Canon/Sony et al. They should not spend it on CNX . . . but they must make sure that Apple & Adobe can easily get great results for Nikon users . . . and that "enabler SW" is where Nikon's SW efforts will start and end as this market segment evolves and matures.
one of these days i will be adding some of Nik's software especially color Efex pro & hdr. I am hearing some many good things out there about these products but even though i have CNX2 i don't use it much. I am very familar with Lightroom 3 and i love it. But as a plugin Nik's products are awesome. I just wish Cnx2 was easier to use like Lightroom is
Tue 13-Sep-11 01:56 AM | edited Tue 13-Sep-11 02:02 AM by rbsandor
As best as I can tell NX2 hasn't stopped functioning and won't disappear from our hard drives tomorrow. So from my point of view, it still does 95+% of what I want to do with the occasional trip to CS5. When something comes along that greatly exceeds NX2's capabilities, I'll gladly switch. For those talk about Nik plug ins for LR and Aperture, it should be remembered that the Nik products are not true plug ins but are better described as stand alone products. This is why NX2 users can access them via a pref change. When an image is sent from NX2 or LR to a Nik plug in, it goes out as a flattened TIFF. That means all your edit steps are compressed and are no longer able to be tweaked. The exception is CEP 3 for NX2, which acts like a true plug in. I don't know if the Nik plug in suite for CS5 are true plug ins. If my understanding of the nature of these plug ins is inaccurate, I'm more than happy to be corrected.
Richard I tend to agreewith you. There are very few things that I do in CS5 anymore and NIK CE2 for NX2 works just fine for me and I am already belending multiple filters in CNX2. CNX2 is and will continue to be my RAW processor of choice.
>Richard I tend to agree with you. There are very few things >that I do in CS5 anymore and NIK CE2 for NX2 works just fine >for me and I am already belending multiple filters in CNX2. >CNX2 is and will continue to be my RAW processor of choice.
Same here, until it stops working or something truly better comes along. Unless Nikon and Abobe start sharing enough information so that ACR is actually using all of Nikon's settings, instead of approximations based on what Adobe decides to implement, CNX and VNX still give the best rendition of a NEF.
ditto robsb and mklass...i use it these days to develop my raw images and then either stay in nx2 or (more commonly lately) move to cs5/nik 'plug-ins' using 'open with' in nx2....i love the u-point technology - so much easier and more intuitive than photoshop layers - and the cnx2 raw processing is not equaled in cs5 (in fact, i find it frustrating as compared with nx2....)
on the other hand, while 'NX2 hasn't stopped functioning and won't disappear from our hard drives tomorrow' it will become progressively more dated as other software advances....eventually, it will become as anachronistic (dare i say it?) as film.... m www.broadwallphotography.com
I don't think there is a business case there for an independent. Nik has had a very good chance to do the math on the investment needed and on the market potential - and they are walking away and have decided to focus on their products. I don't see anyone having a lower cost-of-entry, or greater chance-of-success than Nik.
I can, however, see Nikon sub-contracting in order to create a better "bridge" from NEF to Adobe and/or Apple . . . a piece of SW that fully understands and takes advantage of all the settings and internal data contained in the NEF . . . and passes it on to Adobe/Apple while protecting proprietary Nikon information about how the camera algorithms work.
The good (?) news is that in any large company like Nikon, a project like CNX is likely to stay alive for quite awhile - It likely will die the slow death of under-resourcing, and not be killed outright, so we will be able to use it for awhile yet. (but have a plan to extract all your CNX post-processing work into some industry-standard format)
I shouldn't be so doom-and-gloom, it is possible for Nikon to decide to invest a lot more in CNX so new releases happen faster and new features do get added, but I don't see the business case for an independent..
Nikon already has a developers kit that allows any vendor to read the Nikon maker data. Adobe has chosen not to use it as it is probably not in their best intrerest to do so. Where would you stop? Each product owner would expect Adobe to do the same for them, so it is easier for them to develop their own approach that they control. So this is not a Nikon issue as far as compatibility goes. So we need to wait and see where Nikon is headed as they will not tell any of us what their plan is.
You may be right about the business case Tim. Although having been a software developer in one of my past lives, I think there could be something come from a spin-off with the right developer crew. Especially in light of the large CNX user community I've been reading about in the forums.
The reason I would have Nikon keep Transfer is for the points you made in developing a "bridge" for NEF to other packages. Transfer would utilize the settings and internal proprietary information in NEF to CNX or third party apps.
If CNX were dropped or there was little in additional development then we users would of necessity look elsewhere for our processing as improvements keep being made in the image development within the camera. Without improvements in the Nikon software, camera improvements, communicated through NEF, would be meaningless.
Either Nikon keeps CNX current or they need to work with other app providers to accommodate NEF. Or they go to the RAW protocol.
OK, no more, as you say, "doom-and-gloom". Nikon will do the right thing...and we'll buy it.
Transfer is only a way to get the images off the camera and into a computer, it really doesn't do much else and something like Photo Mechanic is far more flexible for that. If you mean View NX is what Nikon should keep, that is a different story.
If a good third party were to acquire CNX and further develop it, that would be great. They would probably need to incorporate other camera makes to make it worthwhile. Based on prior patterns of acquisitions, if it were Microsoft, they'd probably screw it up, and if it were Adobe, they'd just kill it.
Sat 17-Sep-11 12:18 AM | edited Sat 17-Sep-11 12:20 AM by timpsm
You are right Ken, at some level of their planning Nikon realizes that SW has to be part of the solution to get the image to the world, and that they have to spend some money on it. And speaking technically Ken and Mick, I have no doubt that something cool could be made from it - and it would be great to have something completely dedicated to optimum DSLR post-processing.
"Nikon will do the right thing . . . and we'll buy it." Too true, my Nikon budget already rivals my car budget :- )
>Nik has had a very good chance to do the math on >the investment needed and on the market potential - and they >are walking away and have decided to focus on their products.
This is speculation: Nik may be stuck between a rock and a hard place. Perhaps they aren't getting any new software development contracts from Nikon to develop NX3 (the note from the Nik guy on Flickr suggests this) and at the same time they may have a "no compete" clause in their collaborative agreement with Nikon, preventing them from creating an NX3 equivalent. Cheers, Peter
Sat 17-Sep-11 03:45 PM | edited Sat 17-Sep-11 04:40 PM by mklass
At the moment, this is all reading tea leaves. No one outside Nikon knows, and they aren't saying.
I think we will see a Capture NX update when new DSLR bodies are released. That has been what has happened in the past so the new body's files can be used in CNX. It will be version 2.2.8 not a new version 3.
If they release new bodies with file compatibility issues, and no update is released to CNX to make it compatible, then I think we can safely assume CNX is dead.
Your logic seems sound, Mick - I just hope they figure the Mac OS issue out at the same time - although there are other options, I really prefer to work a NEF/NRW centric workflow, and I've gotten so used to the U-point technology.
I'm going to be patient (and hopeful) and hold off a bit longer!
When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence. - Ansel Adams
>The only reason I haven't upgraded to Lion on the Mac >is because of the (supposed) incompatibility with CNX2.
(Supposed) incompatibility or not, if it will install at all, it works fine. CNX2 2.2.7 is a little slower under Lion than it was under Snow Leopard in 32 bit mode, about the same as Snow Leopard in 64 bit mode. So far, all is well here with CNX2 and OS 10.7.1. The only issue I've had so far is with Nikon Transfer 2 occasionally locking up after a transfer. I hope Nikon gets their compatibility issue squared away, but judging by past versions, I'm not holding my breath.
>Thanks, Gary - that's good to know. I might try it on my >laptop first and see how that goes.
And, the trial, 60-day version you download is the whole complete application anyway. If you don't like it, delete it; if you do like it enter your license number and off you go--nothing more to download.
>The trial version is the complete version less updates. when >you download CNX2 and install the trial you should also go >back and download all the updates and install them too.
In this instance, you go to the Nikon website, download the 2.2.6 full version and the 2.2.7 update. You then have the full, updated application that will run for sixty days and then won't launch any more. Once the app is registered with a serial number, it will run forever.
Well I went ahead and upgraded to Lion on my iMac and all seems to be well (so far) - no issues and no noticeable change in the speed either. I see from another post that Jason O'Dell reports that a native Lion version of CNX2 may be in the works.
When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence. - Ansel Adams
> I see from another post that Jason O'Dell >reports that a native Lion version of CNX2 may be in the >works.
Oh, they (Nikon) will get around to it eventually. The usual lag is about six to eight months before they "declare" compatibility with a particular operating system. At least that has been their history during the last three years. They seem to issue updates right away when a new camera comes out, and deal with the OS X and Windows compatibility somewhat later...
Yes, it certainly is speculation based on very incomplete information - tea leaf reading as Mick says also - if Nikon would just make some announcements we could all go back to coveting their new products as usual, and stop wondering what is going on. Maybe I'll go for a walk and take some pictures, that always helps.
When I asked tech support what was going on, I got the usual we can't talk about future plans response, but I got a follow up request to "tell them how they did" survey based upon that last response,so I used that opportunity to tell them they needed to give us a heads up that CNX follow ons are alive and well. While I know it really does no good, there is the hope that if enough people asked the same question, maybe Nikon would at least make a statement. I have no doubt that they will continue to make updates to CNX2 based upon camera releases, as they would have to do that for at least VNX2 so CNX2 would also get those changes. The real question is where are they in putting out a 64 bit CNX version. When we look at the use of plug ins, I would agree that NIK would be the obvious choice, but I could see a path that did not use newer NIK filters if Nikon wanted to go that way as they already have the U technology in the product and that is not going away. I don't know how much NIK participated in the installed features that were not add ons. The other unknown is this, while NIK has said NIK color effects 4 does not work with CNX2, will it work in the same way that current LR3 NIK filters work with CNX2 i.e. as standalone filters? My guess is yes, but I guess we will have to wait for someone to try it and tell us. In the mean time my copy of CNX2 and NIK color Effects 3.0 for CNX2 still work just fine as my NEF RAW processor and I can always make trips to Photoshop for anything I can't do in my CNX2 version, which right now is very little. I have not yet made any investments in NIK filters beyond the package that integrates with my CNX2.
From the posts and stories about Windows 8 that seem to be based on information from persons who have good connections with Microsoft, it seems that Win8 is going to be here as soon as this time next year, or even as early as July 2012.
Without Nik's involvement, I can't be optimistic about there being a version of NX that will run under Win8.
I'm still on XP also. But I have to realize that MS will end support for XP at some point. Perhaps more importantly, sw vendors will also at some point stop writing new programs and/or updates for XP, as most have done for versions of Windows prior to XP.
I have one windows machine in the house running XP Pro SP3. It us used for one purpose--running my weather station software. I don't care if there are any more updates for XP; it does its job, does it well, no reason to change unless the machine itself dies; I've already replaced the cpu fan and case fan a couple times, it just keeps poking along. The rest of the house is all Apple (two iMacs, two laptops, ipods, iphones, ipads)
I made a personal decision to go with Linux many years ago and have no ties to updates or patches from either Microsoft or Mac. Linux is a computer operating system (Oracle) which is based on free and open source software. The key here is free & "open source" software.
IMHO the OS is leaner, faster and NX 2 runs great. You don't have to be a developer or programmer to operate Linux, the interface is very intuitive. Support is incredible.
I'm pretty much illiterate on operating systems - I'm strictly an application user. But Linux is interesting to me. I was wondering how you can run CNX on it. Is it operated under something like the Mac uses to run Windows? Feel free to email me if this requires a lengthy discussion, as it's somewhat off topic here. Thanks.
Count me in if you go off-line with the Linux solution please. When I bought my laptop it came with Vista. I took out the Vista drive, replaced it and loaded up Win 7. I can either setup a dual-boot Linux/Win 7 or build Linux on the separate drive.
>Jim, rich, > >Count me in if you go off-line with the Linux solution please. >When I bought my laptop it came with Vista. I took out the >Vista drive, replaced it and loaded up Win 7. I can either >setup a dual-boot Linux/Win 7 or build Linux on the separate >drive. > >Ken/Rich My recomendation is set it up with a dual boot first and play with it. I'll start a new thread with this and provide a pointer. There are many flavors of Linux available on the market, I like Ubuntu since it has some of the largest software apps available. Please switch over to: https://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=197&topic_id=25002&mesg_id=25002&page=
A couple times a year I try out Linux on a machine here. The latest run was last week, with Ubuntu 11.4 and a Compaq/HP laptop. Loaded up OK, but didn't recognize the laptop wireless card, so no driver downloads; also didn't pick up the sound card or the proper video card. When Linux becomes really usable for me (just turn on the machine and go, all hardware automatically recognized) I may yet switch. i've used Gimp and Open Office off and on for a few years, and I did get CNX2 running under Linux once; I was impressed with the speed of CNX2 under Linux.
I went over to look at the Nikon 1 series. Impressive. There's also a press center entry (http://press.nikonusa.com/, 1st article, 9/21/2011) extolling the virtues of the Nikon 1 series. Included in the article is "Consumers are also able to create masterpieces of moving images from multiple files using the included Short Movie Creator software. This easy-to-use, intuitive software works in conjunction with Nikon’s View NX2 to make managing photos and movies fun and easy. With these programs, users are empowered to organize, share and edit photos, Motion Snapshots and HD movies. Users are also able to connect and share Motion Snapshot files using Nikon’s my Picturetown, an online resource at www.mypicturetown.com."
Going to www.mypicturetown.com we see where the photo/video managing and editing can be done through View NX2. No mention of Capture NX2 (or a new CNX3).
Maybe I'm reading more (less?) into this in that the omission of CNX2/CNX3 is readily apparent.
Nah! When the D400 comes out there will be a new, improved CNX3.
FWIW, when I was talking to a rep at Nik today to buy Color Efex 3 for Capture NX2, which can no longer be purchased via the Nik web site, I was told in response to my question that support for Color Efex 3 for Capture NX2 is going to be transitioned to Nikon.
Oh yes there is !! cep3 for NX2 is the current version. cep4 is out for PS but not for NX2 Nik has also let Corel include cep3 Complete in PSPX4 as a free addition ,so they aren't very interested in cep3 any more ,I think. Chris.
I have only just seen this post and I am surprised at this development. Not being a regular visitor to this forum I obviously missed an ongoing saga. I am very experienced in CS5 having learn't my skills on CS2 onward. I also use Lightroom 3 as the first port of call for post processing, but have a great liking for NCNX2 with it's rendering capabilties, but more so its Upoint technology where I find its selectivity excellent. I also purchased Nik Color Efex 3 as a CNX2 plug in only, but was surprised that before I bought Silver Efex Pro2 a few weeks ago that is limited to Photoshop/Lightroom only and wondered why! Looks like I know now.
So the Nik/Nikon relationship is over. If they are now sleeping apart and the relationship is totally finished, I wonder about the future. As has been mentioned it's strange that a new release of Color Efex 4 has just been released as a Photoshop/Lightroom only version. I will be an unhappy user of Nik products if support for my current Nik products are ceased.
Note to self "I really must visit this and other forums more regularly, instead of restricting myself to the hardware postings "