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Sometimes after 18 months....

km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
3574 posts

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009
Wed 18-Sep-13 07:39 AM | edited Fri 20-Sep-13 04:35 AM by km6xz

Sometimes, even after shooting almost everyday over 18 months, I just have to admit that the D800 still impresses me to no end.
I was watching a football(soccer to we Americans) game at a neighborhood English pub and grabbed a snap shot of my friend who was watching intently. Just a phone camera sort capture, normally a waste of 42mb file space. The only problem the flash did not fire(meaning, I assumed it was turned on and it wasn't). I got busy and did not delete the totally black frame that would normally be culled at the time.

I downloaded the files taken the next day and noticed the black frame in LR dated the night before. I clicked Autotone and the previously silent histogram shifted right and my friend's face popped into view. The slider was automatically advanced for +5 exposure.Uncropped, in a dark pub with dark wood paneling, illuminated primarily by a TV screen 20 feet away. 1/125, 400, 2,8 at 200mm from across the room.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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ajdooley

Waterloo, US
3384 posts

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#1. "RE: Sometimes after 18 months...." | In response to Reply # 0

ajdooley Gold Member Nikonian since 25th May 2006
Wed 18-Sep-13 10:01 AM

Stan - That is indeed amazing. Aside from the obvious resolution benefits, I too have found the ability to preserve shadow detail amazing with the D800. In this case, it appears EVERYTHING was shadow detail to start with! Thanks for pointing this out to urge us all to take a more careful look at apparently grossly underexposed shots (I think this qualifies!) before we hit the delete button.

Alan
Waterloo, IL, USA
www.proimagingmidamerica.com

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km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
3574 posts

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#2. "RE: Sometimes after 18 months...." | In response to Reply # 1

km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009
Wed 18-Sep-13 12:13 PM | edited Wed 18-Sep-13 12:15 PM by km6xz

I suppose I should be used it but it IS amazing.
I remember pushing 6 stops with ISO 100 or lower, shots with the D7000 but required some careful tweaking. This was one click, with no WB adjustment, noise reduction and contrast adjustments. It captures more color depth and shadow detail than my eye does for sure.
Amazing....!

Another shot of another girl who manages the pub we were in, shot without flash, ISO on auto, and 1/200, 200mm ran up to 25,600 ISO at f/2.8 and printed small(5x7) looks pretty good. She has a colorful tattoo on her shoulder that retained the color just fine. I will post it when I get home since it is on the external 1tb drive. She was cleaning some tables and had a can of furniture spray polish in her hand and the bright yellow top looks just like it the color yellow it is in daylight.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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jamesvoortman

Durban, ZA
1479 posts

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#3. "RE: Sometimes after 18 months...." | In response to Reply # 0

jamesvoortman Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Sep 2004
Wed 18-Sep-13 02:49 PM

That's astounding!!

It looks like underexposing instead of pushing ISO up might be a valid strategy for limiting high ISO noise and/or slow shutter speeds...

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Robman3

West of Santa Monica, US
1842 posts

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#4. "RE: Sometimes after 18 months...." | In response to Reply # 0

Robman3 Registered since 12th Apr 2010
Wed 18-Sep-13 03:34 PM

Thanks Stan,

I've not pushed underexposed takes on the D800 AFAICT, usually (few to begin with) I just load them and skip over the shot.

Great info.

Rob Manning

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K64drb

Blacksburg, US
324 posts

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#5. "RE: Sometimes after 18 months...." | In response to Reply # 0

K64drb Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Feb 2012
Wed 18-Sep-13 05:13 PM

Stan,
I am with you 110% on this. When I first got my D800 I was finding so many gems in my "snapshots" it was amazing. And that's also when I went to exclusively shooting 14 bit RAW at ISO 100 to maximize the quality of the data captured, because of what can be pulled out of the shadows. It's incredible!

From reading Thom Hogan's D800 book, he says that blown highlights where the sensor's photosites are maxed out and can't record any more incoming photons, are not recoverable. Once maxed out, that's it - it's blown.

But, on the other end of the spectrum, where very few photons were counted by the photosite, and initially appears grossly unexposed, there frequently is recoverable data, above background noise, that can brought out. Just as you did. And that shooting at 14 bit RAW, at the camera's base ISO, gives you the best shot at this successfully. It is amazing!

That's why when I use of the histogram on the D800, I take this into account. Blown to the right is still bad news like any other camera, but on the left - well there is still hope for a D800. In high contrast lighting, I try hard to keep the highlights from blowing, and rely on post to recover the shadows. I'm no HDR expert, but there is so much recoverable shadow detail it's like having HDR with a single image RAW file.

The D800 sensor is incredible, and the camera is so much fun to use. It captures images I would have never thought possible.

Thanks for your post!

Dave Badger
Blacksburg, VA
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km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
3574 posts

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#6. "RE: Sometimes after 18 months...." | In response to Reply # 5

km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009
Wed 18-Sep-13 06:07 PM

One thing to bear in mind Dave, is the histogram display is based on the JPG that is rendered for rear view even if shooting only RAW. That means strong blinkies on the rear display and climbing the right wall of the histogram possibly still has some headroom in RAW. If you are shooting RAW but have a PC selected that increases contrast, such as Vivid, you have even more headroom of unclipped high tones intact in the RAW files. Setting the PC to Standard or Neutral will reduce the tendency to clip the JPG.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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K64drb

Blacksburg, US
324 posts

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#7. "RE: Sometimes after 18 months...." | In response to Reply # 6

K64drb Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Feb 2012
Wed 18-Sep-13 06:27 PM | edited Wed 18-Sep-13 06:32 PM by K64drb

That's an excellent point Stan, I didn't think about that. I do keep my PC set to Neutral, but I still may have a little more headroom to the right than I thought in the RAW file. I'll have to play with that a little.

Thanks for the tip!

Dave Badger
Blacksburg, VA
My Nikonians gallery, or visit www.AlternateViewsPhotography.com .

"You don't quit playing because you grow old; you grow old because you quit playing."

avisys

Placitas, US
482 posts

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#8. "RE: Sometimes after 18 months...." | In response to Reply # 0

avisys Basic Member
Wed 18-Sep-13 07:19 PM

Amazing also, is that the color balance survived all that beautifully! TV light is typically terrible.

AviSys

dm1dave

Lowden, US
13748 posts

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#9. "RE: Sometimes after 18 months...." | In response to Reply # 0

dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006
Wed 18-Sep-13 10:00 PM

This is pretty cool.

A while back I kept seeing the term “ISO less sensor.” When I look that up it turns out that they are talking about the same results that you see wit this image.

Effectively every image is captured at base ISO and the camera pushes the exposure the numbers of stops needed to achieve the ISO value that you set. So, if you shoot two images, one underexposed by 5 stops at ISO-100 and then shoots the same scene at ISO-3200. You will have identical images when you push the ISO-100 image by 5 stops. I tried this on a couple of shots and I could not find any difference, in color rendition or noise, between the underexposed (dark frame) low ISO shot and the properly exposed high ISO shot.

Dave Summers
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ScottChapin

Powder Springs/ATL, US
9068 posts

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#10. "RE: Sometimes after 18 months...." | In response to Reply # 6

ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter Member
Wed 18-Sep-13 10:21 PM


>you have even more headroom

Sounding like a true audio engineer. I like it. It certainly applies. I too am amazed with the D800, but that shot really proves its worth. I keep telling myself that I know I will never need anything better......but.....I know better

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA

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ljordan316

Inverness, US
830 posts

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#11. "RE: Sometimes after 18 months...." | In response to Reply # 0

ljordan316 Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2010
Wed 18-Sep-13 10:41 PM

So happy you did not toss this one. Beautiful girl!

Did you give her a copy?

Larry Jordan

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km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
3574 posts

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#12. "RE: Sometimes after 18 months...." | In response to Reply # 11

km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009
Thu 19-Sep-13 05:17 PM | edited Thu 19-Sep-13 05:34 PM by km6xz

No, she told me to delete it because she did not look good, no makeup, screwing up her mouth concentrating on a scoring attempt in the game. I showed her a print a couple days later when I discovered the image was ok. I have some others where she approved. Personally I prefer the candid shots where they are in a natural state without posing. Getting truly candid shots of girls here is hard, you need a 200-400 mm lens because anything closer and their photo-model radar picks up a lens in the vacinity and reflexively strike a pose, even if I am just walking in the opposite direction. Most are very conscious of their appearance, that every accessory is right for the outfit and every seam straight, not a wrinkle or improperly fitting article of clothing, no tags showing etc. One observation I came to years ago, two things assure meeting really nice attractive young women: A really cute small dog or a really big lens;>) My walking around lens is a 70-200 mounted on a D800 with SB900 attached, even in the daylight hours. It is not my objective but it happens anyway.

Here is one without flash in the same pub of the manager who was polishing tables. I focused on her tattoo so DOF was not deep enough for her face to be in focus but that was the goal. 1/200, handheld, f/3.5, 125mm in a dark corner and cranked to 25,600 ISO! The colors were so true despite the low SNR, only 6db. I am not a big fan of tattoos but hers was bright and fit her coloring and personality.

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And a few minutes later I took one of the two girls at the next table, with flash with stopped down to get both in-focus(1/160 f/4.5, ISO 400, 125mm) :

Click on image to view larger version

They were more interested in getting their photo taken than the game, that is fair, so was I.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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tommiejeep

Goa, IN
4638 posts

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#13. "RE: Sometimes after 18 months...." | In response to Reply # 0

tommiejeep Gold Member Nikonian since 07th Jan 2008
Fri 20-Sep-13 01:32 AM

Stan, this is one I never should have clicked on . I've been vacillating on a D800,D800E, D600 or D610 . I've tried to buy a D800 a couple of times and supply has been a problem on each occasion .

Problem is my wife and son are both in need of new cameras , . I've gotten some images from the D3S that I am very pleased with but these are superb for the conditions. So I've much to learn and think about.

I'm shooting an Art Exhibition tomorrow night so will play with the info here. The interior will have just OK light but the exterior, where many of the Installations will be, will be poor for light. I will be shooting the attendees and not the Art ,which will be well lit.
Thanks for posting and no thanks
Tom

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