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dougq

US
1 posts

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dougq Registered since 01st Jan 2012
Sun 01-Jan-12 05:07 PM

Hello,
According to the rumors, the D4 will have 16 mp, while the
D800 will have 36 mp. Can someone please explain why the much
more expensive and better camera will have much less
megapixels?
Forgive my ignorance.
Thanks, and happy new year,
doug

briantilley

Paignton, UK
30235 posts

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#1. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 0

briantilley Gold Member Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003
Sun 01-Jan-12 04:10 PM

Welcome to Nikonians!

Until actual announcements are made, it's a bit early to start guessing. But if the rumours are correct, it's just another indication that pixel count isn't everything. For some users, things like faster frame rate and better performance in low light are more important than outright resolution.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

texspeel

Fairfax Station, US
391 posts

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#2. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 0

texspeel Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Nov 2011
Sat 07-Jan-12 09:21 PM | edited Sat 07-Jan-12 09:22 PM by texspeel

Could it be that ever larger number of pixels is not the end all, be all that many amateurs think they are?

"Nothing can be recognized without light and shade. It is only through the eye, the window of the soul, that we can truly understand the complex workings of nature." - Leonardo da Vinci

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nwcs

Knoxville, US
7030 posts

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#3. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 0

nwcs Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Landscape and Wildlife Photography Registered since 15th Jan 2006
Sat 07-Jan-12 09:36 PM

Thom Hogan speculates, essentially, that working pros don't need more pixels but mny amateurs want them. So Canon and Nikon are catering more specifically to that audience. You can read more on bythom.com.

steveZ

Englewood, US
441 posts

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#4. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 3

steveZ Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Apr 2007
Fri 27-Jan-12 03:11 AM

>Thom Hogan speculates, essentially, that working pros don't
>need more pixels but mny amateurs want them. So Canon and
>Nikon are catering more specifically to that audience. You can
>read more on bythom.com.

Steve Zavodny speculates: Gimme those MP's! So much versatility,
smooth creamy tones up close. F8 & be there. Fun Fun Fun

Steve Z
www.stevezavodny.com

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Hektor

Rancho Palos Verdes - So-Cal, US
701 posts

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#5. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 0

Hektor Platinum Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 08th Jan 2008
Sun 08-Jan-12 10:07 AM | edited Sun 08-Jan-12 10:15 AM by Hektor

Hi:

The D800 has yet to be announced. Therefore, everything I say about the camera is sheer speculation on my part. Peter, at NikonRumors, has given the D800 rumored specs, including the 36 MP sensor, a 99% certainty. In the past, everything he has predicted with that level of certainty has come true. However, we won’t know until announced.

Why 36MP for the D800 and 16MP for the D4? I believe that 16MP is the new minimum standard for both FX and DX formats. To a pro, I believe that pixel size is more important than pixel quantity (I also believe there will be a D4x in the future.) Why then 36 MP for the D800? It could be that the D800 will become the first true dual camera (FX & DX,) shooting 36MP in FX and 16 MP in DX mode. There might not be a D400 in the future since the D300 and D800 are very similar in size. For a DX camera, the D7K might become the top of the line with the D5100 a more economical alternative. Again, this is only speculation on my part.

Best regards,

Hektor

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briantilley

Paignton, UK
30235 posts

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#6. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 5

briantilley Gold Member Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003
Sun 08-Jan-12 11:12 AM

>...since the D300 and D800 are very similar in size.

As you say, that's your speculation - even the rumours as posted don't give the dimensions or weight of a "D800". All we have to go on is that "line up" image that appeared and disappeared - in which the camera that people are calling a "D800" looks noticeably more bulky than those that flank it - apparently a D300 and a D700.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

texspeel

Fairfax Station, US
391 posts

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#7. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 5

texspeel Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Nov 2011
Sun 08-Jan-12 11:23 AM

Hektor,
Agree that we're all doing norhing more than speculating here, but I'd be very surprised if Nikon didn't have a follow-on DX body. If Nikon were, as you speculate, to leave the D7000 as their top of the line DX body with the D800 as a true FX/DX body, they'd leave abou a $2000 to $2500 price ramge between the D7000 and tne D800 for Canon or another manufacturer to fill. From a pure Nikon economic standpoint, I believe there will definitely be a D300 follow-on.
Tom

"Nothing can be recognized without light and shade. It is only through the eye, the window of the soul, that we can truly understand the complex workings of nature." - Leonardo da Vinci

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briantilley

Paignton, UK
30235 posts

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#8. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 7

briantilley Gold Member Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003
Sun 08-Jan-12 11:54 AM

Continuing the speculation, such a gap could perhaps be filled with a lower-spec FX body with around 16MP, rather than a top-end DX offering. But who knows; maybe we'll get both...

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

Hektor

Rancho Palos Verdes - So-Cal, US
701 posts

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#9. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 7

Hektor Platinum Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 08th Jan 2008
Sun 08-Jan-12 12:14 PM | edited Sun 08-Jan-12 12:16 PM by Hektor

Hi Tom:

What you say makes a lot of sense and you make very valid points. Unfortunately, I do not have a crystal ball and can only speculate.

The way I see it is what is the advantage of having a DX camera if it is the same size and weight of an FX one? The 36 MP rumors makes a lot of sense to me, because you can have the best of two worlds with one camera. If you need high ISO or wide angle shots, use the D800 in FX mode. On the other hand, if you need the crop factor for a tele shot, just switch the camera to DX mode and 16 MP.

We’ll have to wait and see. Since I have no intention in upgrading either my D700 or D7K, this is all academic to me but lots of fun.

Best regards,

Hektor

My Blog: Hektors Blog
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Nikonians is our Safe Port and Home in the World Wide Web - Participate as a Full Family Member.

Leica Q - Fujifilm X-T2 (~ October) - Fujifilm X-T10 (Silver) - Nikon D5500 (IR) - Nikon D750
Member since 2007 - Previous User Name: Ramesses (2035 posts) A combined total of 2735+ posts and counting.
"Photography is like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're gonna get." Forrest Gump - The Photo Reviewer.

Garrett Hayes

Lucan, Ireland, IE
287 posts

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#10. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 9

Garrett Hayes Gold Member Nikonian since 03rd Nov 2004
Sun 08-Jan-12 12:57 PM

As we are in the realm of speculation, I might as well have my penny's worth.

I would like to see the D800 as a slimmed down D4. I would like 16MP (although I am very happy with 12.2MP) but I do think that the Exspeed 3 would be very useful as it has shown in the V1 for fantastic abitities. I would like dual cards and while I am really a stills person, I can see the vaule of having video behind lens that cost me more than most non professional video cameras. Inevitably in the electronic age, features are undated rapidly rather than in the film age and so while the D700 is only 2 years plus, electronics and technology have moved on.

What I really like about the D700 is the low light ability and any exhancement here would be really welcome.

I don't really need or want 36MP. There would have to be a trade off and it would likely be the low light capability.

Was at a wedding last week, in a dark church with multiple lighting, candles and daylight and the combination of the ColourRight to white balance and the high ISO of the D700, I shot without flash whereas the official photographer had flash on his Canon!! Enought said.

GH

Ed911

US
222 posts

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#11. "RE: D800" | In response to Reply # 10

Ed911 Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Apr 2007
Sun 08-Jan-12 09:01 PM | edited Mon 09-Jan-12 12:42 PM by Ed911

I just can't see a 36MP sensor in the D800...for one reason...ISO. Maybe in the D4X...for extreme portrait or extreme landscape work. But, for weddings, and the rest of the world of photography...a low to mid 20's mega-pixel sensor is everything you need...and you don't need that.

You know Canon will be coming out with a super expanded ISO range on their 5d2 replacement, well as super as they can make it...and right now...a great many photographers revere ISO over pixels. And, don't even think that Nikon and Canon aren't reading your every comment on this and other forums...crunching the numbers...

Just my two cents.

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JosephK

Seattle, WA, US
7064 posts

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#12. "RE: D800" | In response to Reply # 11

JosephK Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Nikonian since 17th Apr 2006
Mon 09-Jan-12 12:53 AM

Depending on the rumors you run with, the D800 will be the high MP upgrade to the D3X and there will be no D4X.

---------+---------+---------+---------+
Joseph K
Seattle, WA, USA

D700, D200, D70S, 24-70mm f/2.8, VR 70-200mm f/2.8 II, 50mm f/1.4 D,
17-55mm f/2.8 DX, 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR, 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX

Ed911

US
222 posts

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#13. "RE: D800" | In response to Reply # 12

Ed911 Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Apr 2007
Mon 09-Jan-12 12:46 PM

Hmmm...I was going on the assumption that the D800 was a follow-on to the D700 and going to be a direct competitor to the upgraded 5d2.

Well, one of these days, we'll know. 36MP is getting right up there.



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cycleguy623

ketternig, US
9 posts

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#14. "RE: D800" | In response to Reply # 13

cycleguy623 Registered since 25th Dec 2011
Wed 11-Jan-12 05:23 PM

Personally 36mp is to much for me. I have no desire to store those images as I shoot in raw. !6.2 it probably as high as I will ever need to go. I can print beatuiful A3+ prints with my d700 at only 12.1mp

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Hektor

Rancho Palos Verdes - So-Cal, US
701 posts

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#15. "RE: D800" | In response to Reply # 14

Hektor Platinum Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 08th Jan 2008
Wed 11-Jan-12 05:57 PM | edited Wed 11-Jan-12 06:34 PM by Hektor

Hi Paul:

I agree with you. However, I believe that the 36MP camera is coming.

When Nikon announced the D700 (FX) while we had the D300 (DX) my thoughts at the time were that the serious or pro-level DX camera will only go as far as the D600, if they even got to that number (the 7 series cameras have been a very good number for Nikon - D70, D700, and D7000 and probable the reason they jumped to the D700 number.) It all depended, imho, on the amount of pixels they could amass in one sensor. Sony just developed the 36MP FX sensor which allows one camera to shoot FX in 36MP and DX in 16MP. Therefore, there is no need to have a serious amateur camera like D400 or D500 shooting 16MP when the rumored D800 can also do it in DX mode.

I knew that this development might be forthcoming and one reason for me to go with the D700 and D7K combo for a long time. I’m not interested, whatsoever, in going beyond 12MP in FX and I view 16MP in DX as 4MP too many. Unfortunately, I’m not Nikon. I have no intention in getting the rumored D800.

Best regards,

Hektor

My Blog: Hektors Blog
My Photo Album: Hektors Photos
My Nikonians Album: My Galleries


Nikonians is our Safe Port and Home in the World Wide Web - Participate as a Full Family Member.

Leica Q - Fujifilm X-T2 (~ October) - Fujifilm X-T10 (Silver) - Nikon D5500 (IR) - Nikon D750
Member since 2007 - Previous User Name: Ramesses (2035 posts) A combined total of 2735+ posts and counting.
"Photography is like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're gonna get." Forrest Gump - The Photo Reviewer.

briantilley

Paignton, UK
30235 posts

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#16. "RE: D800" | In response to Reply # 15

briantilley Gold Member Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003
Wed 11-Jan-12 07:00 PM

>Therefore, there is no need to have a serious amateur camera like
>D400 or D500 shooting 16MP when the rumored D800 can also do it in
>DX mode.

I wouldn't say that. You're ignoring the size/weight, and the price factor - a 16MP DX "D400" could easily be 30% cheaper than a 36MP "D800".

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

Hektor

Rancho Palos Verdes - So-Cal, US
701 posts

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#17. "RE: D800" | In response to Reply # 16

Hektor Platinum Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 08th Jan 2008
Wed 11-Jan-12 08:26 PM | edited Wed 11-Jan-12 10:08 PM by Hektor

>Therefore, there is no need to have a serious amateur camera like
>D400 or D500 shooting 16MP when the rumored D800 can also do it in
>DX mode.

I wouldn't say that. You're ignoring the size/weight, and the price factor - a 16MP DX "D400" could easily be 30% cheaper than a 36MP "D800".

Hi Brian:

I do not disagree with you. That is why I said the "D400 or D500." There could be a D400, but I seriously doubt a D500 and beyond (I could be wrong, of course.)

The sensor is probably the most expensive component of a camera. After Sony and Nikon recover the R&D costs of the new 36MP, I have no doubt that in two years, it will come down drastically in price. Furthermore, I cannot see going beyond 36MP. The future sensors might be more sensitive with higher ISO performance and cameras with better Xpeed processors, probably introduced with the single digits pro cameras.

That is the way I see it.

Best regards,

Hektor

My Blog: Hektors Blog
My Photo Album: Hektors Photos
My Nikonians Album: My Galleries


Nikonians is our Safe Port and Home in the World Wide Web - Participate as a Full Family Member.

Leica Q - Fujifilm X-T2 (~ October) - Fujifilm X-T10 (Silver) - Nikon D5500 (IR) - Nikon D750
Member since 2007 - Previous User Name: Ramesses (2035 posts) A combined total of 2735+ posts and counting.
"Photography is like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're gonna get." Forrest Gump - The Photo Reviewer.

SVA

CH
645 posts

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#18. "RE: D800" | In response to Reply # 17

SVA Registered since 26th Jun 2004
Thu 12-Jan-12 09:52 AM

>...There could be a D400, but I seriously doubt a
>D500 and beyond (I could be wrong, of course.)

Look at Canon EOS C300! DX may have future - in video.

Vladimir
Russian Nikonian in Switzerland

jjm203z

Dupont, US
1685 posts

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#19. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 0

jjm203z Registered since 17th Dec 2007
Thu 12-Jan-12 01:18 AM

Digital backs at 36mp on the digital medium format cameras bring that price to around $9000 - $26000. So i dont think nikon can do it for $4000.

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SVA

CH
645 posts

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#20. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 19

SVA Registered since 26th Jun 2004
Thu 12-Jan-12 09:54 AM

Nothing impossible - just make 100'000 cameras instead of 10'000.

Vladimir
Russian Nikonian in Switzerland

oncewaspfd

Auburn Hills, US
93 posts

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#21. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 20

oncewaspfd Registered since 29th Jul 2010
Fri 13-Jan-12 07:58 PM

Bought my D700 one year ago and love it. I've been saving for a 300mm 2.8 and I think I'll stick with that plan. At least for this year.

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RRRoger

Monterey Bay, US
3373 posts

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#22. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 19

RRRoger Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his long history of demonstrated excellence and helping other members with equipment, technique and DSLR video in the true Nikonians spirit. Charter Member
Wed 18-Jan-12 02:28 AM

Quote>Digital backs at 36mp on the digital medium format cameras
>bring that price to around $9000 - $26000. So i dont think
>nikon can do it for $4000. Quote<

This 36MP Sensor is the same size as the D700.
Except for R&D, why should it cost much more?
Even the price of medium format with larger sensors are falling.

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ttoolan

Sacramento, US
953 posts

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#23. "RE: D800 v. D4" | In response to Reply # 0

ttoolan Silver Member Nikonian since 16th Jul 2004
Thu 19-Jan-12 01:04 AM | edited Thu 19-Jan-12 01:06 AM by ttoolan

>Hello,
>According to the rumors, the D4 will have 16 mp, while the
>D800 will have 36 mp. Can someone please explain why the much
>more expensive and better camera will have much less
>megapixels?
>Forgive my ignorance.
>Thanks, and happy new year,
>doug
>

I've seen the rumors and I haven't said anything yet. But, I would be absolutely shocked if the D800 was 36 Mpxls. I for one just don't believe it. It just doesn't make any sense to me. You can speculate all you want about a high megapixel D800 but it just sounds too hard to believe. Call me a doubting Thomas.

Tom
D3, D200, D70, F6, F3/T, F2AS, FM2N

We all come into this world with our little egos equipped with individual horns. If we don't blow them, who else will?
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G