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Benkoop

Amsterdam, NL
122 posts

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Benkoop Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Sep 2009
Fri 17-Feb-12 06:39 PM | edited Fri 17-Feb-12 06:44 PM by Benkoop

Here the 20 pages technical guide:

http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf

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Gator Bob

SANTA FE, US
582 posts

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#1. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 0

Gator Bob Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Jul 2006
Fri 17-Feb-12 05:49 PM | edited Fri 17-Feb-12 05:49 PM by Gator Bob

This tech guide alone is worth the price of admission to Nikonians. Thank you! I have an 800E on order and this tech guide tells me more about moire and the D800E than I have seen anywhere else.
Gator Bob in Gainesville FL
D700 & SB800 * D800E on order
Nikkors: *14-24 * 28-300 * PC-E 85mm *50mm 1.8
Tamron 90mm Macro

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LMMiller9

Potomac, US
1168 posts

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#2. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 0

LMMiller9 Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2005
Fri 17-Feb-12 05:59 PM | edited Fri 17-Feb-12 06:00 PM by LMMiller9

This is pretty interesting. Rather than a real "technical guide" it is almost more of a "Look, your going to have problems if you don't learn to do this" guide.

The emphasis on how to reduce blur tells us a lot about how we need to use this camera, and how the camera is different from our D700s. High resolution brings with it additional challenges.

I suspect they are saying "Please don't send your D800 back to us telling us that some of your pictures are blurred. They are going to be blurred unless you have done the following..."

Larry Miller, Potomac, MD
DF/D810
http://lmmillerphotography.smugmug.com/

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SVA

CH
645 posts

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#3. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 2

SVA Registered since 26th Jun 2004
Sat 18-Feb-12 02:21 PM

>I suspect they are saying "Please don't send your D800
>back to us telling us that some of your pictures are blurred.
>They are going to be blurred unless you have done the
>following..."

Since my OTHER collection is handguns, I expect no problems using D800. With film and wide lens, I have satisfactory sharp photos shot handheld at 1/4 shutter speed.

Vladimir
Russian Nikonian in Switzerland

Robp

Gainesville, US
951 posts

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#4. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 0

Robp Gold Member Nikonian since 23rd Oct 2009
Fri 17-Feb-12 07:53 PM

Thank you! I just noticed this was posted elsewhere and thanked that poster; but I think yours was first. Thanks again.

Rob Puller
My Nikonians gallery

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jtmcg

Simsbury, US
4986 posts

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#5. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 4

jtmcg Moderator Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Awarded for his high level skills, specially in Wildlife, Macro & Landscape Photography Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 22nd Mar 2007
Fri 17-Feb-12 11:28 PM

I posted this link and I checked before I posted and don't think this post was there before mine, at least I didn't see it when I posted mine. But mine has disappeared. Whatever.

John

Jim Pearce

Grimsby, CA
4397 posts

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#6. "Use a tripod and shoot at f8..." | In response to Reply # 0

Jim Pearce Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Mar 2004
Fri 17-Feb-12 07:59 PM

There, you're done.

Jim

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Robman3

West of Santa Monica, US
1842 posts

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#7. "RE: Use a tripod and shoot at f8..." | In response to Reply # 6

Robman3 Registered since 12th Apr 2010
Fri 17-Feb-12 08:54 PM | edited Fri 17-Feb-12 08:55 PM by Robman3

Somewhere on another forum, discussing video DSLR one person posted up that an old time press photographer, always used f8, because he only had one shot and it had to be good.

Also in the Nikon Video forum here, early on Ric Kasnoff and others, were comfortable with f8 being the nominal norm.

So according to this guide, all of my f22 landscape (vast detail as in Death Valley) stills could have been approved by using f8?

Oh my...

Thanks,

Rob

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kolson

Auburn, US
73 posts

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#8. "RE: Use a tripod and shoot at f8..." | In response to Reply # 7

kolson Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Dec 2009
Fri 17-Feb-12 11:55 PM

Looks like the old addage "f/8 and be there" certainly applies to the D800E for landscape photography......

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Robman3

West of Santa Monica, US
1842 posts

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#9. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 0

Robman3 Registered since 12th Apr 2010
Fri 17-Feb-12 08:39 PM | edited Fri 17-Feb-12 08:59 PM by Robman3

Notes: Lens selections.

Below are some of the lenses you can use
for enhanced sharpness:
AF-S NIKKOR 14–24 mm f/2.8G ED
AF-S NIKKOR 24–70 mm f/2.8G ED
AF-S NIKKOR 70–200 mm f/2.8G ED VR II
AF-S NIKKOR 16–35 mm f/4G ED VR
AF-S NIKKOR 24–120 mm f/4G ED VR
AF-S NIKKOR 200–400 mm f/4G ED VR II
AF-S NIKKOR 24 mm f/1.4G ED
AF-S NIKKOR 35 mm f/1.4G
AF-S NIKKOR 85 mm f/1.4G
AF-S NIKKOR 200 mm f/2G ED VR II
AF-S NIKKOR 300 mm f/2.8G ED VR II
AF-S NIKKOR 400 mm f/2.8G ED VR
AF-S NIKKOR 500 mm f/4G ED VR
AF-S NIKKOR 600 mm f/4G ED VR
AF-S Micro NIKKOR 60 mm f/2.8G ED
AF-S VR Micro-Nikkor 105 mm f/2.8G IF-ED
••••••••••••••••


All G lenses, none of the primes with iris ring for video takes. Plus glaring absence of the 50mm, 1.4 is that prone to diffraction too much? Just curious?

Also, the apertures on any (CPU?) lens can be "de clicked" digitally using I believe 1/4 step increments in camera, which may be too cumbersome for cinema folks, but good enough for bi-format stills/video jobs.


Thanks,

Rob

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PAStime

Kingston, CA
2823 posts

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#10. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 0

PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009
Fri 17-Feb-12 11:30 PM | edited Fri 17-Feb-12 11:32 PM by PAStime

Interesting technical guide. A lot of it applies to photography using any advanced DSLR. Good to read.

This statement I don't understand:

The effects of diffraction are partly influenced
by the size of the pixels in the camera image sensor...


I suspect this is nothing more than an observation that 100% viewing of a 36 MP image (fixed FX area therefore smaller pixels) is a higher magnification than with lower MP cameras and therefore blur from any source, diffraction or other, will be more noticeable.

It is good that it says the effects of diffraction because certainly diffraction is a function of the lens configuration and not other components in the camera (sensor, film, or other included).

Peter

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nikonus

Southern California, US
498 posts

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#11. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 0

nikonus Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 04th Feb 2007
Sat 18-Feb-12 03:28 AM

Look at the illustration on filters , half way down . E and NON- E cameras

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d800/nikon-d800A.HTM#lpf

Hans K.

My Gallery

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SVA

CH
645 posts

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#12. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 0

SVA Registered since 26th Jun 2004
Sat 18-Feb-12 06:01 AM

Very interesting. But if I have to think about all this instead of the subject, maybe I better keep using D3X or film for higher resolution? It's a joke, but...

Vladimir
Russian Nikonian in Switzerland

mbryan777

Bartlesville, US
19 posts

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#13. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 12

mbryan777 Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning a Nikonians Annual Photo Contest Registered since 22nd Oct 2011
Sat 18-Feb-12 10:16 AM | edited Sat 18-Feb-12 10:48 AM by mbryan777

I pre-ordered a D800 and I have to say that the technical manual has made me a bit nervous about this camera. I have never seen so much emphasis on blur. Fortunately there was a little discussion about using the camera hand held, because I shoot about 70% of my shots hand held. The manual gives the impression that you will get a blurred shot if you don't use a tripod and focus using magnified live view at F8 with just the right lens. It was good to see references to high ISO and low noise in the technical manual, because it looks like we will need to be shooting at higher shutter speeds with this camera. I've been using a D300 since 2007 and rarely gotten a shot that looked blurred. I hope this camera is not limited to the studio or a tripod for landscapes.

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cheuwi

CA
112 posts

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#14. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 13

cheuwi Registered since 09th Nov 2005
Sat 18-Feb-12 12:20 PM

The lens list is making me nervous... I ordered the D800E for landscape just to find out that my 17-35 AND my 45 PC-E are both not on the list...

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LMMiller9

Potomac, US
1168 posts

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#15. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 14

LMMiller9 Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2005
Sat 18-Feb-12 12:47 PM

I am rather curious about that list of lenses. They are all newer lenses, some with VR and some without (the very fast ones). The paragraph introducing the list talks about "sharpness", rather than "blur" although they are obviously related. Sharpness, however, may be independent of motion. I think the bottom line is that this camera takes everything to a next level at which lenses, computers, technique, knowledge of how your camera works, etc., all need to be at a matching level to get the best out of the camera.

I still think this entire "technical manual" (which it really isn't) is all about "please don't send your camera back to us because you are getting lousy results."


"With cameras like the D800E, which are suited to visually
complex subjects, it is important to get as much sharpness
from the lens as possible. Contrast at the periphery of the image can generally be increased by choosing an aperture two
or three stops from the maximum, although results will vary
from lens to lens. Below are some of the lenses you can use
for enhanced sharpness:"

AF-S NIKKOR 14–24 mm f/2.8G ED
AF-S NIKKOR 24–70 mm f/2.8G ED
AF-S NIKKOR 70–200 mm f/2.8G ED VR II
AF-S NIKKOR 16–35 mm f/4G ED VR
AF-S NIKKOR 24–120 mm f/4G ED VR
AF-S NIKKOR 200–400 mm f/4G ED VR II
AF-S NIKKOR 24 mm f/1.4G ED
AF-S NIKKOR 35 mm f/1.4G
AF-S NIKKOR 85 mm f/1.4G
AF-S NIKKOR 200 mm f/2G ED VR II
AF-S NIKKOR 300 mm f/2.8G ED VR II
AF-S NIKKOR 400 mm f/2.8G ED VR
AF-S NIKKOR 500 mm f/4G ED VR
AF-S NIKKOR 600 mm f/4G ED VR
AF-S Micro NIKKOR 60 mm f/2.8G ED
AF-S VR Micro-Nikkor 105 mm f/2.8G IF-E

Larry Miller, Potomac, MD
DF/D810
http://lmmillerphotography.smugmug.com/

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mikesrc

OKLAHOMA CITY, US
299 posts

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#16. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 14

mikesrc Registered since 03rd May 2009
Sat 18-Feb-12 12:54 PM

>The lens list is making me nervous... I ordered the D800E
>for landscape just to find out that my 17-35 AND my 45 PC-E
>are both not on the list...


Well I only own 1 lens on the list. With that being said I have some very good lens that work great on my D7K. I think Nikon is trying to get ahead of the curve after all of the stuff they went through with the D7000.

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SVA

CH
645 posts

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#17. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 14

SVA Registered since 26th Jun 2004
Sat 18-Feb-12 02:08 PM | edited Sat 18-Feb-12 02:36 PM by SVA

>my 17-35 AND my 45 PC-E are both not on the list...

Both are I expect both to be great for D800. Obviously probably better than 24-120/4 from the list (which is definitely usable).

Vladimir
Russian Nikonian in Switzerland

briantilley

Paignton, UK
30235 posts

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#18. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 17

briantilley Gold Member Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003
Sat 18-Feb-12 02:14 PM

>Both are great for D800. Obviously better than 24-120/4 from
>the list (which is definitely usable).

It's dangerous to appear so definite until the lenses have actually been used on a production D800/D800E.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

SVA

CH
645 posts

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#19. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 18

SVA Registered since 26th Jun 2004
Sat 18-Feb-12 02:37 PM

OK I have edited my posting. At least I am sure about AF-S 17-35/2.8D, Tessar MAY have telecentricity problem with smaller photosites. But I am afraid the main purpose of the list is to sell more latest and greatest to us (as if we were not saving every penny for NAS). Where are extremely sharp 105/2 DC and 135/2 DС?

Vladimir
Russian Nikonian in Switzerland

piniongear

Houston Texas, US
466 posts

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#20. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 19

piniongear Registered since 29th Jul 2006
Sun 19-Feb-12 03:11 PM

>OK I have edited my posting. At least I am sure about AF-S
>17-35/2.8D, Tessar MAY have telecentricity problem with
>smaller photosites. But I am afraid the main purpose of the
>list is to sell more latest and greatest to us (as if we were
>not saving every penny for NAS). Where are extremely sharp
>105/2 DC and 135/2 DС?
**********************************************************************

I agree with you there!
Just where are these DC lens?
I own both, and there cannot be a sharper lens than either of these two.
Perry

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drbrog

Chicago, US
870 posts

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#21. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 13

drbrog Platinum Member Charter Member
Sat 18-Feb-12 01:28 PM

I think this will be an issue if you view or print close to 100%. I don't think it will be noticeable for smaller prints or if only minor cropping is needed.
I could be wrong but I don't think the issue would be different in a 16 MP crop sensor.

Jay Newmark
A Chicago Nikonian

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Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
5701 posts

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#22. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 0

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Sat 18-Feb-12 02:40 PM

Did you notice this statement?

>>When recording movies, the D800E off ers similar resolution
>>to the D800. Choose the camera that best suits your style.

I do stills, but have been debating whether I might do more movies with this camera and if so whether the D800E might be a poor choice since post processing is not readily available.

This comment is rather out of the blue and unexplained. Has anyone seen anything else from Nikon? I would have thought the "E" might be a problem with patterns in view in video mode.

Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

Benkoop

Amsterdam, NL
122 posts

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#23. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 22

Benkoop Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Sep 2009
Sat 18-Feb-12 04:07 PM | edited Sat 18-Feb-12 04:37 PM by Benkoop

Indeed, I didn't pay notice to that statement - but it is strange. Could it be related to the concern many gave words to the last days that moire is very hard to handle in video?
Is Nikon saying: moire is not a problem in video? Could it be that the software in the camera takes care for that?

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MotoMannequin

Livermore, CA, US
8582 posts

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#24. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 23

MotoMannequin Awarded for his extraordinary skills in landscape and wildlife photography Registered since 11th Jan 2006
Sat 18-Feb-12 09:34 PM

I take it to mean - given that 1080p HD video is basically a 2MP image - that 36MP is downsampled so far that you're not going to notice any difference between D800 & D800E at that resolution.

Larry - a Bay Area Nikonian
My Nikonians gallery

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TomCurious

Bay Area, US
2352 posts

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#25. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 0

TomCurious Registered since 03rd Jan 2007
Sat 18-Feb-12 11:04 PM

A photographer who is using good technique today, and know the strengths and weaknesses of his lenses and uses them accordingly (no matter what those lenses are) will be just fine with the D800. Yes it will require top notch technique to make full use of 36MP and to see a noticeable improvement over 12MP (and why else would anybody upgrade to 36MP if not to improve his results).

Nikon published this guide as a precaution against casual users who will shoot this new camera with something like the 24-120/3.5-5.6 lens wide open and hand-held at 1/20s and then look at the image corner at 100% crop at his monitor, and then complain, post threads, return the camera or send it to Nikon service for adjustment.

As for the lens list, these are just examples of lenses that will work well with the D800. And I also detect a bit of marketing here - why not encourage a D800 buyer to also buy some new Nikon lenses? Once the camera is out, this list will be very easy to disprove by shooting some $50 lens (like the Nikon 50mm f/1.8 AI) which at f/8 will without any doubt provide stunning resolution even for 36MP. Or if you want to "splurge" invest in the Nikon 50mm f/1.8G which at $220 will out-resolve this and future even higher MP bodies.

Tom
Bay Area Nikonian


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mbryan777

Bartlesville, US
19 posts

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#26. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 25

mbryan777 Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning a Nikonians Annual Photo Contest Registered since 22nd Oct 2011
Sun 19-Feb-12 12:59 AM

Well said Tom. I think you are "spot on".

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bacil

Excelsior, US
420 posts

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#27. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 0

bacil Basic Member
Sun 19-Feb-12 12:30 AM | edited Sun 19-Feb-12 12:31 AM by bacil

OH NO. None of my lenses is on the list..... I cannot use a D800 and get a good result

stve10

UK
28 posts

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#28. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 27

stve10 Registered since 17th Feb 2012
Sun 19-Feb-12 02:52 AM

I'm sure the guide will help lot's of users to get the best out of their new camera.
Anyone having problems with blur shooting hand held should check out Joe McNallys Da grip
http://www.joemcnally.com/blog/2008/03/10/da-grip/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDsx3-FWfwk

mwhals

Winfield, US
1664 posts

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#29. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 0

mwhals Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Apr 2004
Tue 21-Feb-12 01:23 AM

While I only have one lens on that list (105/2.8G AFS VR Micro), I find that the advice in the guide is essentially the same as I used when first learning photography with a film camera.

I also believe my top lenses will still do good on the camera:

17-35/2.8 AFS
28-70/2.8 AFS
80-200/2.8 AFS
200/4 AF micro
300/4 AFS
105/2.8G AFS VR micro

As to the rest of my lenses, stop them down to f8 and I believe I will get great images with them.

Shoot nature with respect and don't trample it or startle its inhabitants. :)

ms8107242

Dresher, US
53 posts

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#30. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 29

ms8107242 Registered since 09th Dec 2003
Tue 21-Feb-12 01:32 PM

Jumping in on this chat, am somewhat concerned. Have a D800 on order, upgrading from D300 (want to transition to FX), with principal lens the 24-120/F4. Most pictures taken are hand held. Do I need to employ live view to get non-blurry images, or can a technique using auto ISO, using a "good" aperture setting result, and good hand hold technique result in good/sharp images? Or am I just overanalyzing this? Thanks

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chiefmasterjedi

US
313 posts

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#31. "RE: D800 Technical Guide" | In response to Reply # 30

chiefmasterjedi Silver Member Nikonian since 26th Feb 2009
Tue 21-Feb-12 05:35 PM

OK, here is my take on this. I also have the 24-120 F4 and I'm also concerned that I may not get as sharp images from the D800 as I do on my D700. But I think it's how you determine what sharp is and what media you are outputting to. Most of my shots end up on the internet and a few get burnt to a disc at hi-res for future printing. I'm not too worried about the internet shots, I'm sure I'll get nice crisp looking images from the D800 after downsizing. As for the hi-res printable images, I'll have to be more careful when taking these.
On my D700 I can get away with shooting hand held images at 1/100 second at 100mm without the VR on, but I doubt I'll get away with it on the D800. I think with good hand holding technique and a higher shutter speed than I'd normally use will be the ticket with the D800.
I shoot a lot of models with off camera speedlights at focal lengths between 24mm and 150mm (my 24-120 F4 is my go to lens for this) and I don't think I'll have to change much here. I normally shoot at 1/200 second for indoor/studio work and rarely go below 1/100 second for outdoor shoots, depending on ambient light. I have no intentions of using a tripod for the model shoots, they are moving just as much as I am (shake wise) and the flash "should" help freeze any minor movement.
I will start off shooting the D800 like a DX camera, where shutter speed should be at least 1.5 x the focal length or higher. I very rarely use a tripod and I'd like to keep it that way! But when I do use the tripod, I normally use a shutter release cable and exposure delay mode and I'm sure this will work just as well on the D800.

The way I see it is, I have the D800 on pre-order and I do intend taking delivery of it. So I will learn how to use it properly and how to get the best out of it.

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G