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D800E shutter releases when out of focus?

venusian

US
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venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Wed 03-Oct-12 11:47 PM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 01:19 AM by venusian

I took some street photography shots today. A number of them were in sharp focus, while several were soft. With my D700, I could not snap a photo if the subject was out of focus. However with the 800E, at least the way it is set up now, that does not appear to be the case. In several of the instances where the subject was out of focus, I confirmed that center focus point was on the target, the shutter released, but the subject was not in focus.

Additionally, if I focus on a subject manually and purposely create an out of focus situation, the shutter will still release and take an out of focus picture.

What I'm trying to achieve is to not have the shutter release when pressing the shutter release button unless the subject is in focus (confirmed by the green dot).

My D800E my settings are as follows:
- focus mode selector set to AF
- choice of autofocus mode = AF-S
- AF-S priority selection (a2 setting) = focus
- AF Activation (a4 setting) = Shutter/AF-On
- center focus point used exclusively
- lens is Nikon 85mm f/1.8G
- lens was set to M/A mode
- the firmware is A = 1.00, B = 1.01, and C = 1.006.


Any help would be appreciated.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

Rharbison

US
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#1. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 0

Rharbison Registered since 24th Apr 2008
Wed 03-Oct-12 11:15 PM

I suspect your problem is here:

> choice of autofocus mode = AF-S

That stands (I think) for Single Servo. While I'm not sure of the exact name, I am sure of the results. Once it acquires focus lock, it says "OK, we're good!" stops trying to focus and also allows shutter release.

This is good if you want to use the center focal point for example, and then lock on and recompose.

It's bad if you have any subject motion or the camera moves at all. For that matter, even turning the camera a bit, say rotating left, can affect the focal plane, especially at close range or small apertures.

I first discovered this during a bike race. The D800 was focusing on the subject, I'd wait an instant for them to be in the exact right spot (they were moving of course) and then click, blurry shot!

Changing to AF-C for continuous focus completely solved the issue.

This falls under the "That's a feature, not a bug!" category, since there are times when you want the camera to work this way.

venusian

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#2. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 1

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Wed 03-Oct-12 11:34 PM

Thank you for replying and your suggestion.

However, it does not explain the following: why can I fully release the shutter when the camera is purposely set to out of focus using manual focus. This never happened with my D700.

In fact, when I used my D700 (AF-S; single point AF, etc.) to take pictures of moving targets (i.e. approaching the camera), I remember the D700 shutter would not release because the subject was out of focus when I tried to press the shutter down all the way. My D800E is not behaving this way in spite of it being set up to do the same as my D700.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

texspeel

Fairfax Station, US
391 posts

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#3. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 0

texspeel Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Nov 2011
Wed 03-Oct-12 11:43 PM

Try changing the lens setting from M/A to A/M.

"Nothing can be recognized without light and shade. It is only through the eye, the window of the soul, that we can truly understand the complex workings of nature." - Leonardo da Vinci

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PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
2807 posts

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#4. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 2

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Wed 03-Oct-12 11:51 PM

>This never happened with my D700.
>
> My D800E is not behaving this way in spite
>of it being set up to do the same as my D700.


To me, this is the crux of the matter. I have numerous cameras. Some Nikon, some not. I get along with all of them very well in part because I do not expect any of them to work similarly to the others.

The D700 is a 4+ year old design. The D800 is a brand new design. Logic would suggest that a camera 5 years newer is going to do things differently than the old one.

I think the primary issue here is one of user expectation. Try to get past what your old camera did, learn how the new one works, and you should be golden.

I'm sorry if this sounds dismissive or flippant. I don't mean it to. I just deal with this a lot going back and forth from camera to camera, even on the same shoot. Heck I have two of exactly the same bodies, and sometimes THEY don't function exactly the same.

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Rharbison

US
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#5. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 4

Rharbison Registered since 24th Apr 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 12:03 AM

I don't have a D700, so I can't test it.

Theoretical question for you. If you have the D700 set for AF-S (not AF-C) and you acquire focus lock and then recompose, what happens? Are you saying it would not let you shoot the photo?

That doesn't sound correct. The whole idea of AF-S is that you focus once, and then can recompose. Generally speaking, when you do, the focus point won't be in focus (Otherwise you'd just focus there, right?). So, if it works the way you state, you can't really use the AF-S function in the way I understand it to work.

There could be other factors here as well, for example the number of focus points.

venusian

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#6. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 4

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 12:06 AM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 12:29 AM by venusian

Perrone,

I'm afraind your response was not helpful. I have read the manual and have visited a number of blogs, etc. that could possibly relate to this issue. In fact, I just found out others have similar issues with the D4 and the D800.(http://www.flickr.com/groups/nikon_d4_pros/discuss/72157629823349759/

Please try to answer the following question if you can: why can I fully release the shutter when I purposely make the subject out of focus using manual focus?

Thank you.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

venusian

US
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#7. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 5

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 12:17 AM

I just did another test. If I acquire focus lock with the D700, keep the shutter button 1/2 way depressed and recompose, I cannot press the shutter release down all the way. If I repeat that exercise with my D800E, the shuter will release all the way and the recomposed subject is out of focus.

For my D700 and the D800E, I use the center focus point exclusively.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

venusian

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#8. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 3

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 12:25 AM

Tex,

My two lens settings are A/M and M. If I take a still subject photo in A/M mode, the green in-focus light is displayed and the resulting image is in focus. I did this today with some moving subjects, but not all. In some cases, the shutter released when the subject was not in focus.

If I put the lens in M mode and purposely create a subject that is significantly out-of-focus, the shutter button will still release.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
2807 posts

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#9. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 6

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Thu 04-Oct-12 12:41 AM

>Perrone,

>Please try to answer the folowing question if you can: why can
>I fully release the shutter when the camera is purposely set
>to out of focus using manual focus?
>
>Thank you.

Well, this gave me a chance to blow some dust off some cameras so let's have a go:

With camera set to AF-C, Focus priority, subject out of focus:

1. D800 - releases out of focus
2. D3s - will not release
3 . D200 - releases out of focus
4. D7000 - will not release
5. D2h - will not release
6. D2x - not tested (screen is broken, can't verify settings)
7. Nikon 1 - Option not available.


So based on these findings, it appears that some Nikon's will release, and others will not. I don't know the rhyme or reason for it.

Does this help?

------
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klrbee25

Naples, US
1386 posts

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#10. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 0

klrbee25 Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2006
Thu 04-Oct-12 12:58 AM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 12:59 AM by klrbee25

Apparently the D800 just acts differently. I can tell you this though. I much prefer a camera on release priority than focus priority. I'd rather have the camera fire away and some photos be out of focus than miss great moments in frustration as the camera sits idle despite holding the shutter release down.

And I'm sure others will agree...one of the WORST feelings in the world is a full shutter button press and nothing happens. God that annoys me!

-Alex Rosen
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PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
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#11. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 10

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Thu 04-Oct-12 01:02 AM

>And I'm sure others will agree...one of the WORST feelings in
>the world is a full shutter button press and nothing happens.
>God that annoys me!

Yep, which is why none of my cameras are set to focus priority. Sometimes a soft photo is far preferable to NO photo.

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InsaneO

Encino, US
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#12. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 0

InsaneO Registered since 09th May 2012
Thu 04-Oct-12 01:20 AM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 01:25 AM by InsaneO

Nikon manual page 281.
Even if you are in AF-C mode and set on Focus it will not release unless in focus.
If you have fast focusing lenses choose Focus. My 24-120mm F4 VR will refocus quickly enough from let's say 5 feet to 10 feet while moving the lens fairly fast. By the time I am there I can snap the shot. And not in the best of light either.

venusian

US
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#13. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 10

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 01:22 AM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 01:38 AM by venusian

Alex/Perrone...thank you for the responses. I would tend to agree with you, but I'm still a bit confused. I see now on page 101 of the manual (bottom) the following statement: "To focus manually, adjust the lens focus ring until the image displayed on the clear matte field in the viewfinder is in focus. Photographs can be taken at any time, even when the image is not in focus.

This is something entirely new and strange to me...that photographs can be taken any time "even when not in focus." Even so, that eliminates a key variable for me regarding manual focus.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
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#14. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 13

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Thu 04-Oct-12 01:56 AM

>This is something entirely new and strange to me...that
>photographs can be taken any time "even when not in
>focus." Even so, that eliminates a key variable for me
>regarding manual focus.

And as I tried to say before, expecting your new camera to work just like your old one, is generally not a good idea and can lead to troubling inconsistencies. When I shoot three bodies at soccer (D800, D7000, D3s), and all are in Matrix mode, they all give different metering. Even with the same lens.

I see this in volleyball all the time as I switch my 300mm and 70-200 back and forth between the D3s and D800. TOTALLY different exposure readings.

I hope you come to terms with your new D800. It's a great camera. I really like mine a lot.

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Antero52

Vantaa, FI
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#15. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 13

Antero52 Silver Member Awarded for his expertise in post-processing, being  consistently helpful and professional. Nikonian since 07th Jul 2009
Thu 04-Oct-12 04:51 AM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 04:52 AM by Antero52

In another thread on this forum it was said that the D800(E) does not treat “Focus priority” as an absolute value, but a relative one. What this means is that if the camera is set to Focus priority, it will try harder to reach focus, but not indefinitely. The consequences are that 1) the user does not lose a photo entirely because the camera cannot focus on anything, and 2) there’s no way the D800(E) can be set to focus trap mode, wherein the camera only fires when something capable of focusing on is detected under the active focus sensor. Some users mourn the loss of the focus trap feature, the majority appears to be pleased by the ability to get at least some kind of photo.

Regards, Antero

venusian

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#16. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 14

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 07:42 AM

Perrone,

I would like to set my camera up so that it will not take a picture unless it's in focus. Can you or other Nikonians please tell me what those settings are.

I would rather have the camera tell me the picture will not be in focus prior to shutter activation rather than to end up having a collection of out of focus images after a shoot or to have to zoom in on the image in the monitor every time I take a picture to determine if it is in proper focus.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

venusian

US
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#17. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 10

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 07:46 AM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 07:58 AM by venusian

Alex,

I have to say that being prevented from taking an out-of-focus picture does not annoy me. In fact, I prefer it. What I do find annoying is coming back from a shoot and ending up with a bunch of out of focus images that defy sharpening.

I would like to set my camera up so that it will not take a picture unless it's in focus. Can you or other Nikonians please tell me what those settings are. Thanks.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

venusian

US
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#18. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 9

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 07:58 AM

Perrone,

Thanks for taking the time to test these cameras and post the results. Interesting stuff. I prefer to shoot in AF-S mode (not AF-C). Do you know what those settings would be for the D800/E so that the camera will not release when out of focus in AF-S mode?

It almost seems bizzare that these expensive cameras have the capability of taking pictures in AF-S mode that will be out of focus without letting the photographer know about it. I would like to prevent getting home after a shoot and discovering I have a number of out of focus images on my hands.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
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#19. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 16

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Thu 04-Oct-12 08:00 AM

I don't believe it's an issue of "settings". I believe the camera simply doesn't work that way. If this is truly something you seek, then perhaps something like a D3x would be more to your liking.

I do get what you're asking and why. I just don't think this camera (or honestly any other) can offer you guaranteed focus every time you push the shutter. Some will get you close though. The D800 just isn't one of them.

-P

>Perrone,
>
>I would like to set my camera up so that it will not take a
>picture unless it's in focus. Can you or other Nikonians
>please tell me what those settings are.
>
>I would rather have the camera tell me the picture will not be
>in focus prior to shutter activation rather than to end up
>having a collection of out of focus images after a shoot or to
>have to zoom in on the image in the monitor every time I take
>a picture to determine if it is in proper focus.
>

------
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venusian

US
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#20. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 15

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 08:09 AM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 08:46 AM by venusian

Antero,

Thank you for the explanation. If that is the case, the photographer can end up with any number of out of focus images after a shoot and not know which are in focus and which are not until viewing on the computer screen (or viewing in the LCD monitor). What good are these images if they cannot be sharpened. This is unacceptable.

Are you saying that the majority of D800/E users are happy with this situation?

Even more bizarre is that according to the manual (pg 101 bottom) when using manual focus the shutter will release even though the image is NOT in focus. How is it possible that such expensive/sophisticated cameras can take out of focus pictures without letting the photographer know about it at the point when the picture is taken? If I recall correctly, my D700, D200 and D70 did not behave this way in AF-S mode.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

venusian

US
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#21. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 12

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 09:40 AM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 09:46 AM by venusian

Yes, Insane, that is true for AF-C to a degree...What it also says is that "Regardless of the option selected, focus will not lock when AF-C is selected for autofocus mode. The camera will continue to adjust focus until the shutter is released." My interpretation of this is that it is still possible to get an out of focus image because focus does not lock.

AF-S is described in the next page of the manual (pg282). It describes a situation where the camera is in focus priority or whenever the shutter release button is pressed (release priority) in single-servo AF. In this instance, it says that when a2 is set to "focus" that "Photos can only be taken when the in-focus indicator is displayed." Additionally, it also says that "Regardless of the option selected, if the in-focus indicator is displayed when AF-S is selected for autofocus mode, focus will lock while the shutter-release button is pressed halfway. Focus lock continues until the shutter is released." My interpretation of this is that the shutter will not release if the subject is out of focus because focus is locked.

Here is an example. When doing street photography with my D700 or D200, in any instance when I placed the single middle focus point on a subject in AF-S mode and depressed the shutter half way, I waited for focus to engage (lock) and then pressed the shutter release again to take the picture. If the subject was still in focus, the shutter would release. If the subject was not in focus, the shutter would not release which told me to keep trying until it was in focus. This was true for non-moving and moving subjects. I could then tell that my chances of having an in-focus image were excellent (assuming my shutter speed would freeze the scene and prevent camera blur). I would like my D800E to do this and according to the information contained on pg 282 of the manual, it should act this way...but isn't.

Sorry to be so lengthy.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

dennishhh

Boston, US
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#22. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 21

dennishhh Registered since 22nd Sep 2012
Thu 04-Oct-12 10:59 AM

Hi Nick,

Have you called Nikon about this,

"AF-S is described in the next page of the manual (pg282). It describes a situation where the camera is in focus priority or whenever the shutter release button is pressed (release priority) in single-servo AF. In this instance, it says that when a2 is set to "focus" that "Photos can only be taken when the in-focus indicator is displayed." Additionally, it also says that "Regardless of the option selected, if the in-focus indicator is displayed when AF-S is selected for auto focus mode, focus will lock while the shutter-release button is pressed halfway. Focus lock continues until the shutter is released." My interpretation of this is that the shutter will not release if the subject is out of focus because focus is locked."

I just tried my camera and you're exactly right it does not lock and if you move it does not continue to focus unless it's an AF–C. this explains why some of the shots I took yesterday during a model shoot or out of focus. This is totally unacceptable and Nikon needs to be contacted. In the meantime I can use AF-C but it works so differently than I'm used to. Does your focus lock turned green, my lock always turns red when I get a focus lock beep. It really seems like there must be a menu item for this but I can't find one. I'll call Nikon and see if I can get anything done about this and anyone else who has the camera should also do this. This had to be a firmware mistake because of the manual statement.
Dennis

venusian

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#23. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 22

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 11:15 AM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 11:26 AM by venusian

Hi Dennis,

I will be contacting Nikon today regarding the AF-S/single servo out of focus issue. Let's compare notes.

Dennis, when I focus on a subject, the single, middle focus point starts out red, and then turns to what looks like a black color when focus has been achieved. I do know that when in live mode (as opposed to looking through the viewfinder), the focus point starts off being red when on the subject but then turns to green when focus is achieved.

My specific "need to know" is this and I believe you are interested in it as well. Is there a way to set up the D800E in AF-S mode so that after the shutter button is depressed half way and locks focus it will not release all the way and take a picture if the subject goes out of focus after lock has been achieved?

BTW there is a very intersting thread that discucces this question with the D4 and the D800/E: http://www.flickr.com/groups/nikon_d4_pros/discuss/72157629823349759/
Roughly half way down the thread things get interesting.

Thanks!

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

hujiie

US
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#24. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 23

hujiie Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Apr 2009
Thu 04-Oct-12 11:29 AM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 11:29 AM by hujiie

FYI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRDEu038S4c

http://photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00aZ5a







www.hitoshiujiie.com/photography.html

briantilley

Paignton, UK
30235 posts

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#25. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 23

briantilley Gold Member Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003
Thu 04-Oct-12 11:49 AM

>Dennis, when I focus on a subject, the single, middle focus
>point starts out red, and then turns to what looks like a
>black color when focus has been achieved.

I don't have a D800 to check, but I don't think the change in colour is an indication of focus being achieved. My impression (with other Nikons) is that the AF point illuminates in red for a short time when AF is initiated, then "un-illuminates" in any event.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

venusian

US
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#26. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 24

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 12:00 PM

Thank you for the links. I've been to both of them. The video does describe the issue very succinctly.

In the other link, there's a lot of back and forth going on with no clear cut resolution. However, all of it raises an important question: Why does Nikon give us an AF-S priority/a2 selection to prevent taking out of focus pictures (pg 282) when it is indeed possible to take out of focus pictures after focus lock is achieved by depressing the shutter half way?

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

FineArtSnaps

Leesburg, US
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#27. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 25

FineArtSnaps Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jun 2012
Thu 04-Oct-12 01:26 PM

Hi Nick,

Instead of talking about equipment, let's talk a bit about street photography. Looking at your web I'd guess you haven't done much street photography. I do see a couple pictures in your B&W section that I'd classify as street, but most of your shots from the street are environmental portraits -- pictures of people's faces.

Environmental portraiture requires good focus, so I'd guess that's why you're concerned about being able to release the shutter without reaching what the camera decides is perfect focus. But I've studied the masters of street for nearly sixty years and I've been doing street photography since 1953 and I can guarantee that in true street photography, which requires not just a face, but a story mixed with a fair dose of ambiguity, if you insist on perfect focus you're going to miss more shots than you're going to catch.

The D800 isn't a good street camera. It's too big and too noisy. The same thing's true of my D3. I've done a fair amount of street shooting with the D3, and a bit with my new D800, but my favorite on the street is an E-P1. With that half frame and a 25mm Summicron, I can use zone focus. At f/8 I can set up the camera so that everything's in acceptable focus from about 9' to 20', and to get a shot within the second or less when the scene and the geometry are right, all I have to do is frame and shoot.

You can do the same thing with the D800 and a 50mm lens at f/11, but you have to set up the camera to use AF-ON exclusively so you can pre-focus on something about 12' out and leave the focus set. If the camera focuses on a half-press of the shutter button the whole idea of zone focus is defeated. So here's the setup: a1 (AF-C) or A2 (AF-S): Release, a4 (AF Activation): AF-ON Only, f/11, and a pre-focus on a spot about 12' out. You probably also want to set the camera on auto ISO unless lighting conditions are pretty constant. Now you're ready to respond in the second or less you have for a real street shot.

If you want to know how I get off talking about street photography you can look at some of my street work by checking my web. There also are a couple articles I've done on the subject at http://www.externalconnections.info/Articles/OnStreetPhotography.html and http://www.externalconnections.info/Articles/WhyDoStreetPhotography.html

Russ Lewis
www.russ-lewis.com
www.FineArtSnaps.com

venusian

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#28. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 27

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 01:45 PM

Thank you for the comments, Russ.

Right now I'd like to focus (no pun intended) on the issue of this thread which is: Is there a way to set up the D800E in AF-S mode so that after the shutter button is depressed half way and locks focus it will not release all the way and take a picture if the subject goes out of focus after lock has been achieved?

Please, Russ, address that specific question if you can.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

K64drb

Blacksburg, US
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#29. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 26

K64drb Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Feb 2012
Thu 04-Oct-12 02:00 PM

Nick,
Here's the logic as I understand it. "Focus lock" means just that - once you the photographer lock the focus of the lens, the D800 logically assumes you have locked it right where you want it. The only thing left to do is release the shutter without trying to change the focus again. If there is some aspect of the composition that is changing that might affect what you want in focus, then don't lock the focus until you're ready to shoot, or if you have locked it, take your finger off the shutter release button and refocus before shooting.

My D800 set in AF-S with A2 set to Focus Priority will not release the shutter at all, no matter how long I press the button if it cannot achieve focus, like having it pointed at something too close for the lens. If your D800E does that too, then I think it's working just like it should.

When you put the camera in manual mode, the camera assumes you want full control over focus so these features are deactivated.

I hope this helps.

Dave

FineArtSnaps

Leesburg, US
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#30. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 28

FineArtSnaps Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jun 2012
Thu 04-Oct-12 02:08 PM

The only thing I can suggest is to get away from AF-S, go to AF-C and keep Priority Selection set to Focus. If you do that, be sure you keep either AF-ON depressed, or the shutter button half way down until you've released the shutter. My Nikons have been on AF-S and AF-ON only for a couple years now because I want the flexibility that lets me, on the one hand focus with AF-ON and then re-frame without worrying about the focus jumping, and on the other hand hold AF-ON down with my thumb as I track, say, a flying bird and release the shutter when the composition is right. I don't have to change a thing when I set up for zone focus on the street.

But I'd rather be the one to decide when the camera's in focus rather than rely on somebody's algorithm, so my Priority Selection is always set to Release.

Russ Lewis
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www.FineArtSnaps.com

PerroneFord

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#31. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 20

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Thu 04-Oct-12 03:34 PM

>Antero,
>
>Thank you for the explanation. If that is the case, the
>photographer can end up with any number of out of focus images
>after a shoot and not know which are in focus and which are
>not until viewing on the computer screen (or viewing in the
>LCD monitor). What good are these images if they cannot be
>sharpened.

Yep. Just like the good old days.

>This is unacceptable.

To you it seems.

>Are you saying that the majority of D800/E users are happy
>with this situation?

I cannot speak to the majority of users. Speaking only for myself, my photography has been subject to this limitation since I started with it in 1979. As a sports shooter, my D800 is able to lock focus on players moving at VERY rapid rates of speed and as long as my skills are up to it, I get perfect focus 99% of the time.

Perhaps my perspective is different because I grew up with cameras where the photographer was in charge of focus, exposure, and everything else. I didn't get to see if I got it all right until days later if I shot in color, or hours later if B&W. I do not expect my equipment to bend to me, I expect to have to bend to it. Learning how the D800 has rewarded me with some of the best images of my life.

Best of luck.

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#32. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 30

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 03:52 PM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 03:53 PM by venusian

To all who have replied. Thank you for taking the time to offer help and suggestions.

I just got off the phone with Nikon support. They provided an explanation that appears to make sense.

I explained that the few soft images I was having problems with typically occurred when the subject was moving, e.g. towards me.

With camera in AF-S mode and a2 set to "focus" the camera locked on the subject and stayed locked as long the button is depressed halfway.

During this time, perhaps 1-2 seconds, the subject has moved, but the camera doesn't know that so it stays locked and takes an out of focus image...in other words the locked focus did not compensate for this movement.

When asked what to do in this situation, it was recommended that I use 3-D focusing. With 3-D focusing the camera is able to hunt for focus in a back-to-front manner. When it locks onto the target (e.g. subject's face) it will stay locked. However, as the subject moves towards the camera, the 3-D focusing will continuously focus and compensate for this movement in real time and the camera will be in focus until the shutter is fully released.

I asked about AF-C mode to achieve the same thing. I was told that AF-C is more of a left to right thing and does not do as well as 3-D in this situation.

The use of the 3-D focus method should provide a sharp image so long as the shutter speed is able to freeze the movement properly and prevent blur.

I'm going to give it a try again tomorrow and see how things go.

In the meanwhile, I'll try to post some of the good images I took yesterday. I've never done this before so it may take some time. And I must say, the camera is spectacular.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

Antero52

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#33. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 32

Antero52 Silver Member Awarded for his expertise in post-processing, being  consistently helpful and professional. Nikonian since 07th Jul 2009
Thu 04-Oct-12 04:56 PM

In your post #12 it looks like you equated acquiring good focus with sharp pictures. But you may get pictures that can't be sharpened for lots of other reasons, like subject and/or camera movement. Surely you don't mean that it is unacceptable for a camera to take a shot that is blurred beyond salvation.

As to your post #20, here's an example of how follow-focus works with 3-D focusing. It's not the best of images but helps to explain the concept. As you see, the eagle was flying closer to me, at an angle, while it was hidden by the lamppost. After emerging from behind the obstacle, the eagle was immediately in sharp focus.

Click on image to view larger version


Regards, Antero


Attachment#1 (jpg file)

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#34. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 33

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 05:04 PM

Hi Antero,

I'm going to try 3-D focusing tomorrow and will report back. Thanks for the explanation and the picture.

My statement about "unacceptable" was in specific reference to AF-S, the a2 setting, and the knowledge I had at that point.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

PerroneFord

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#35. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 34

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Thu 04-Oct-12 05:14 PM

Be forewarned. 3-D focus can be terrific, or it can be horribly frustrating. It does rely on contrast between the subject and the background, and it works well when there is significant distance between your subject and the background. And you are using a fairly open aperture.

I've had some success with it tracking birds against the sky,and watched it perform horribly as the bird dipped near the treeline. I've used it in sports, and for individual sports, it worked pretty well, but in team sports it was horribly lost. About the best success I got with it was shooting pole vaulters. It locked on to them beautifully.

Best of luck.

>Hi Antero,
>
>I'm going to try 3-D focusing tomorrow and will report back.
>Thanks for the explanation and the picture.

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#36. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 35

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 05:53 PM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 05:59 PM by venusian

On a more positive note, I've posted some of the shots I took yesterday while doing street photography. Camera was D800E, lens was 85mm f/1.8G. The sky was overcast. Some post-development work was done to develop the RAW images using LR, CS5, and in three instances, Silver Effex Pro.

For ease of posting these images, I placed them in my website: http://www.nickschmidtphotography.com/nycity.html

Thank you.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

FineArtSnaps

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#37. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 35

FineArtSnaps Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jun 2012
Thu 04-Oct-12 06:02 PM

>Be forewarned. 3-D focus can be terrific, or it can be
>horribly frustrating.

Hear, hear, Perrone.

Russ Lewis
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www.FineArtSnaps.com

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#38. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 37

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 06:08 PM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 06:08 PM by venusian

So, Russ and Perrone, what do you feel is the best approach to this focusing situation when trying to shoot relatvely slow-moving objects that often approach the camera? What focus technique(s) would you use?

Thanks.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

PerroneFord

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#39. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 38

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Thu 04-Oct-12 06:15 PM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 06:18 PM by PerroneFord

>So, Russ and Perrone, what do you feel is the best approach
>to this focusing situation when trying to shoot relatvely
>slow-moving objects that often approach the camera? What focus
>technique(s) would you use?
>
>Thanks.

I've been shooting this with AF-C/AF-On. This is the bread and butter of sports shooters. Shooting athletes running to the camera, away from the camera, side to side, jumping, you name it. We've been shooting this way since the AF Film days with the F4.

I have no idea why you are shooting with AF-S. It's the exact OPPOSITE of what you want to be using for your subjects. Rharbison mentioned this in the very first reply on this thread, and you dismissed him out of hand. That's unfortunate because he was exactly correct.

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#40. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 39

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 06:25 PM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 06:28 PM by venusian

Thanks, Perrone.

Some of my subjects are stationary and others are moving. So it's a mix of situations. I used the AF-S mode becasue it worked well for me when using the D700 for street photography. Tomorrow, I'll try 3-D and AF-C and see where it takes me.

I'm at a different point in the learning curve today and Rharbison's message is beginning to make more sense for the D800/E. At that point I was in conflict between what I was comfortable with the D700 and a new camera.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

PerroneFord

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#41. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 40

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Thu 04-Oct-12 06:34 PM

>Thanks, Perrone.
>
>Some of my subjects are stationary and others are moving. So
>it's a mix of situations. I used the AF-S mode becasue it
>worked well for me when using the D700 for street photography.
>Tomorrow, I'll try 3-D and AF-C and see where it takes me.

Here's the thing. If you use the AF/On button on the back of the camera in conjunction with AF-C, you effectively have BOTH modes available. Simply keep pressing the AF-On button and the camera does AF-C. Lift your thumb off, and you effectively have AF-S. This is why myself, and practically every pro sports shooter I know does i this way. Separating the shutter from the focusing gives you amazing flexibility and will completely eliminate the problem you are having right now. Going to 3D focus is going to add new issues. I'll guarantee it.


>I'm at a different point in the learning curve today and
>Rharbison's message is beginning to make more sense for the
>D800/E. At that point I was in conflict between what I was
>comfortable with the D700 and a new camera.

Understood. Also try to understand that when you post a message like this asking for assistance, and people with dozens of years of experience offer advice, you *might* want to give it a shot before you simply brush it off. It tends to rub people the wrong way, and make them less apt to assist you in the future.

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#42. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 41

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 07:00 PM

Perrone,

Early on, I was hoping for an answer that would have allowed me to stay with what I was comfortable with on the D700...my most recent reference point. That is why I had some difficulty with Rharbison's post. It and other things I read in other off-Nikonian threads about D4 and D800/E owners having similar problems took me in another direction and put me in a bit of conflict.

No need to belabor this point. Let's move on and be positive and constructive about the whole situation.

And Rharbison, just that you know, I appreciate your trying to help me in spite of all that's been alluded to.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

PerroneFord

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#43. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 42

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Thu 04-Oct-12 07:05 PM

Fair enough. I'll look forward to your reports of how the new techniques work for you.

I am somewhat curious about how the 3D mode works out for this kind of photography. It's been kind of a bust for me in what I shoot, but may end up working well for you.

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avisys

Placitas, US
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#44. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 0

avisys Basic Member
Thu 04-Oct-12 08:29 PM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 08:32 PM by avisys

I don't want to drag this on and on, but for some reason this subject (repeated in other places and on other forums) tends to deteriorate into posts questioning the OP's skill, or telling the OP to use a different focus setup.

The fact is, at least in my original case, the posters missed the point: The D800, at times, will take a photo when the image is wildly out of focus, and the green dot is OFF!

That ain't the way it's supposed to be in AF-S Focus Priority! Period!




AviSys

InsaneO

Encino, US
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#45. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 21

InsaneO Registered since 09th May 2012
Thu 04-Oct-12 08:49 PM | edited Thu 04-Oct-12 08:58 PM by InsaneO



First of all my name is not Insane.
Second of all you are correct. If there is nothing to lock on it should not take a picture if it is set on Focus priority.
So if you point your camera at the sky in AF-C it will not fire.
Camera in AF-C first locks the focus and then follows it thus green indicator is not displayed.


>AF-S is described in the next page of the manual (pg282). It
>describes a situation where the camera is in focus priority or
>whenever the shutter release button is pressed (release
>priority) in single-servo AF. In this instance, it says that
>when a2 is set to "focus" that "Photos can
>only be taken when the in-focus indicator is displayed."

Correct and that how it should be.

>Additionally, it also says that "Regardless of the option
>selected, if the in-focus indicator is displayed when AF-S is
>selected for autofocus mode, focus will lock while the
>shutter-release button is pressed halfway. Focus lock
>continues until the shutter is released." My
>interpretation of this is that the shutter will not release if
>the subject is out of focus because focus is locked.

If you move camera while focus is locked and as long you keep pressing shutter half way it will fire.

>Here is an example. When doing street photography with my D700
>or D200, in any instance when I placed the single middle focus
>point on a subject in AF-S mode and depressed the shutter half
>way, I waited for focus to engage (lock) and then pressed the
>shutter release again to take the picture.

Are you saying you re-engaged the shutter?
Because if you did then camera focuses the second time but because it happens so quickly you don't notice it.

>If the subject was still in focus, the shutter would release.
>If the subject was
>not in focus, the shutter would not release which told me to
>keep trying until it was in focus. This was true for
>non-moving and moving subjects. I could then tell that my
>chances of having an in-focus image were excellent (assuming
>my shutter speed would freeze the scene and prevent camera
>blur). I would like my D800E to do this and according to the
>information contained on pg 282 of the manual, it should act
>this way...but isn't.

I don't know what your camera is doing but I set mine to Focus priority and my works just fine. I keep my camera in AF-C mode most of the time. And if the subject is not focused on, it will not fire. If subject moves a little while it fires the subject will be out of focus a little.

And to add, I encountered some lenses that are incapable of locking focus in AF-C mode correctly. One of them is Sigma 85mm F1.4.


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#46. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 45

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 09:29 PM

Hi,

I didn't mean to call you by a strange name, just didn't know your first name and keyed off your usrname.

>If you move camera while focus is locked and as long you keep pressing shutter half way it will fire.
That's correct, it still thinks it is in focus even though it may not be.

>Are you saying you re-engaged the shutter? Because if you did then camera focuses the second time but because it happens so quickly you don't notice it.
I typically do not re-engage the shutter but keep it half way depressed so I can fully depress it once I know subject is in focus. The only time I would re-engage is when I know for sure that the subject moved enough to warrant another refocus.

Tomorrow I will try AF-C mode and will remain in Focus Priority mode.

>If subject moves a little while it fires the subject will be out of focus a little.
I hope I can minimize this tomorrow. The important issue here is how will I know I've got an out of focus image right after the picture was taken? I don't want to have to zoom in and view it on the monitor...by then the subject could be long gone. The only recourse is to snap multiple pictures and hope one is in focus. I'll be trying that as well.

Thank you for your feedback.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

venusian

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#47. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 44

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Thu 04-Oct-12 09:58 PM

>That ain't the way it's supposed to be in AF-S Focus Priority! Period!
Are you saying this is the case when the lens cannot achieve focus before the green dot goes on? Under such circumstances, the shutter will not release. At someone else's suggestion, I tried to focus on a subject that was too close to the camera. The camera would not focus and the shutter would not release.

When speaking to Nikon support today the tech said that once the camera achieves focus lock (green dot goes on) when the shutter is pressed halfway, so long as the shutter remains pressed halfway the camera will think it's in focus even though the subject has moved...and the shutter can be fully released under these conditions. It will result in an out-of-focus picture.

I also asked Ming Thein to answer the following question: Is there a way to set up the D800E in AF-S mode so that after the shutter button is depressed half way and locks focus it will not release all the way and take a picture if the subject goes out of focus. Hi answer was a simple "no."

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

avisys

Placitas, US
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#48. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 47

avisys Basic Member
Thu 04-Oct-12 10:53 PM

I guess you are missing what I said:

Here I'll say it again: The D800, at times, will take a photo when the image is wildly out of focus, and the green dot is OFF!

I'm saying that on my camera, AT TIMES it will take an image out of focus with the green dot off.

And that's a bug.

AviSys

chuckbernard

San Francisco, US
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#49. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 13

chuckbernard Registered since 30th Dec 2009
Thu 04-Oct-12 11:16 PM

>Alex/Perrone...thank you for the responses. I would tend to
>agree with you, but I'm still a bit confused. I see now on
>page 101 of the manual (bottom) the following statement:
>"To focus manually, adjust the lens focus ring until the
>image displayed on the clear matte field in the viewfinder is
>in focus. Photographs can be taken at any time, even when the
>image is not in focus.

This seems correct to me. If you are choosing to do manual focus then it is "you" not the camera that decides when "it" is in focus. How is the camera to know what you want when you are in charge of deciding when your subject is in focus? For example, you may want a very soft photo for effect.

On the other hand, if you are using auto focus it should not release the shutter without focus. Ever!

With regards to autofocus: I have a bunch of out of focus images when I'm using autofocus on my D800. This is very irritating to say the least!

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

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FineArtSnaps

Leesburg, US
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#50. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 48

FineArtSnaps Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jun 2012
Thu 04-Oct-12 11:41 PM

Absolutely. About the size of a gnat -- a noseeum.

Russ Lewis
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#51. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 48

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Fri 05-Oct-12 06:56 AM | edited Fri 05-Oct-12 07:02 AM by venusian

For Avisys,

Can you explain in a bit more step-by-step detail exactly what you do when the out of focus picture occurs?

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

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#52. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 50

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Fri 05-Oct-12 07:02 AM

Russ,

A fellow Nikonian has made a statement about something that is bothering him with his camera. Shouldn't we try to be helpful and offer up positive, constructive comments?

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

avisys

Placitas, US
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#53. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 51

avisys Basic Member
Fri 05-Oct-12 04:55 PM

>For Avisys,
>
>Can you explain in a bit more step-by-step detail exactly what
>you do when the out of focus picture occurs?

There's nothing to do; the camera goes off unexpectedly and the image is all fuzz. I delete it.

There are considerable comments on other fora regarding this very issue.

AviSys

FineArtSnaps

Leesburg, US
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#54. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 52

FineArtSnaps Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jun 2012
Fri 05-Oct-12 05:57 PM

You're probably right, Nick. It's definitely a bug, Nick's not the only one who's experienced it, and it should be reported to Nikon and fixed with the next firmware release. But I still maintain it's a very small bug. Maybe that's because I'm always on "Release" instead of "Focus." I'll be the one to decide when the scene is in focus, not an algorithm built into the camera. I've also explained why you don't want your camera set on "Focus" when you do "street photography." If you look at Nick's web you'll see that he does some very good work, but it's not "street photography." It's photography on the street. There's a difference.

Russ Lewis
www.russ-lewis.com
www.FineArtSnaps.com

venusian

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#55. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 54

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Fri 05-Oct-12 06:29 PM | edited Fri 05-Oct-12 07:09 PM by venusian

Russ,

I never really said it's a bug, but I kind of felt there might be something wrong with the camera. I've read other forums on this subject and D4/D800/E owners are mentioning it as being a problem. In another post I provided a link to one of those forums.

Based on my adventures to the city today, I have to say that the following approach worked very well for me. I used single focus point, AF-C, and a1 was set to "focus." Took almost 200 photos and was totally satisfied with the camera's performance...for still or moving subjects. In fact I learned something very useful. When shooting in this mode, and with the shutter depressed halfway, if I moved the center point focus to a different subject in the composition the camera jumped to a new, yet in-focus setting. Amazing!

As far as your comments regarding my street photography is concerned, please note the following: (1) thank you for your kind words about my work, (2) what is in my website is not my street photography. You visited my B&W section and it does not have a specific theme. I'm building a collection of street photography for the site, but have yet to go public with it. (3) What is or is not street photography is a subjective choice. You perspective and mine may vary, but that does not make yours or mine right or wrong, and (4) I don't see how your comments about the street photography are useful for this thread.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

FineArtSnaps

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#56. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 55

FineArtSnaps Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jun 2012
Fri 05-Oct-12 07:13 PM

You're right, Nick. Nikonians is about equipment, not photography.

Russ Lewis
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InsaneO

Encino, US
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#57. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 46

InsaneO Registered since 09th May 2012
Fri 05-Oct-12 07:53 PM


The only recourse is to snap multiple pictures and hope
>one is in focus. I'll be trying that as well.

And you will NOT be the only one doing it.
I do it all the time. most of the time.
There are many reasons why.

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#58. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 57

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Fri 05-Oct-12 07:57 PM

Thanks.

This is what I discovered today and fortunatelty did not have to resort to multiple snaps...at least for my city walk-around photography.In fact, it worked exceptionally well for me.

I used single focus point, AF-C, and a1 was set to "focus." Took almost 200 photos and was totally satisfied with the camera's performance...for still or moving subjects. In fact I learned something very useful. When shooting in this mode, and with the shutter depressed halfway, if I moved the center point focus to a different subject in the composition the camera jumped to a new, yet in-focus setting. Amazing!

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

InsaneO

Encino, US
395 posts

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#59. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 55

InsaneO Registered since 09th May 2012
Sat 06-Oct-12 03:33 AM


>
>Based on my adventures to the city today, I have to say that
>the following approach worked very well for me. I used single
>focus point, AF-C, and a1 was set to "focus." Took
>almost 200 photos and was totally satisfied with the camera's
>performance...for still or moving subjects. In fact I learned
>something very useful. When shooting in this mode, and with
>the shutter depressed halfway, if I moved the center point
>focus to a different subject in the composition the camera
>jumped to a new, yet in-focus setting. Amazing!

Very good. And now you are ready for page 283 in the manual.

venusian

US
186 posts

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#60. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 59

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Sat 06-Oct-12 07:34 AM

Excellent point! I chose the Off setting.

Thanks for pointing this out.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

johntechx

UK
13 posts

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#61. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 60

johntechx Registered since 09th Jul 2012
Mon 08-Oct-12 01:08 AM

I have a D800. If AF Activation is set to AF On only (backbutton focus) the camera WILL fire the shutter even if focus is not achieved in AF-S or AF-C. This is frustrating, as I prefer to use backbutton focusing

Mike55Y

Hillsborough, US
79 posts

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#62. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 53

Mike55Y Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Jun 2006
Tue 09-Oct-12 12:23 AM

I also had this issue. I previously used a D300 and D7000 and this never happened. I also rented a D800E for 4 days before purchasing and did not have this problem.

I would take several pictures in a row of the same subject and some would be in perfect focus and some really out of focus - not soft, quite blurry. The preview on the camera screen would show a red rectangle right in the center, and in NX2 the focal spot would show right in the center even for the blurry ones. I would say as many as 1/3rd of the pictures were way out of focus. I did this using AF
-S (set for focus) and AF-C (set for focus+release) with no difference. I always used AF-ON only for focusing.

I returned the camera to Best Buy and bought a new one from Amazon. I have not had this problem with the new one.

venusian

US
186 posts

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#63. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 62

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Tue 09-Oct-12 09:02 AM

In an earlier post, I said that I would describe my experiences using the D800E for street photography after switching to an AF-C mode (in place of AF-S).

Based on my adventures to the city several days ago, I have to say that the following approach worked very well for me. I used single focus point, AF-C, and a1 was set to "focus."

I took almost 200 photos and was totally satisfied with the camera's performance for still or moving subjects. In fact I learned something very useful. When shooting in this mode, and with the shutter depressed halfway, if I moved the center point focus to a different subject in the composition the camera jumped to a new, in-focus setting in real time. Amazing!

I want to thank all of you who suggested this new approach. I took a while for me to appreciate its value. Early on, your suggestions went over my head because I was too locked into an old way of doing things.

I have added one additional tweak to this technique. In an earlier post, it was recommended that I visit pg 283 in the manual. I did, and set a3 to "off."

Thanks once again to all of you!

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

FineArtSnaps

Leesburg, US
401 posts

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#64. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 30

FineArtSnaps Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jun 2012
Tue 09-Oct-12 03:17 PM

>The only thing I can suggest is to get away from AF-S, go to
>AF-C and keep Priority Selection set to Focus. If you do that,
>be sure you keep either AF-ON depressed, or the shutter button
>half way down until you've released the shutter. My Nikons
>have been on AF-S and AF-ON only for a couple years now
>because I want the flexibility that lets me, on the one hand
>focus with AF-ON and then re-frame without worrying about the
>focus jumping, and on the other hand hold AF-ON down with my
>thumb as I track, say, a flying bird and release the shutter
>when the composition is right. I don't have to change a thing
>when I set up for zone focus on the street.
>
>But I'd rather be the one to decide when the camera's in focus
>rather than rely on somebody's algorithm, so my Priority
>Selection is always set to Release.

I just ran across this and realized I said my Nikons are set on AF-S. That's wrong. They're set on AF-C. AF-S doesn't make any sense if you're using AF-ON exclusively.

Russ Lewis
www.russ-lewis.com
www.FineArtSnaps.com

Rharbison

US
33 posts

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#65. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 47

Rharbison Registered since 24th Apr 2008
Tue 09-Oct-12 04:48 PM

>When speaking to Nikon support today the tech said that once
>the camera achieves focus lock (green dot goes on) when the
>shutter is pressed halfway, so long as the shutter remains
>pressed halfway the camera will think it's in focus even
>though the subject has moved...and the shutter can be fully
>released under these conditions. It will result in an
>out-of-focus picture.

It COULD result in an out of focus picture. It could also result in an in focus picture if you locked focus and then re-composed. That's why it works the way it does, so you can acquire focus and recompose. Obviously, if the subject moves while you do so, it may no longer be in focus.

>I also asked Ming Thein to answer the following question: Is
>there a way to set up the D800E in AF-S mode so that after the
>shutter button is depressed half way and locks focus it will
>not release all the way and take a picture if the subject goes
>out of focus. Hi answer was a simple "no."

The way to do what you're asking is set the camera to AF-C. Then it will do what you're asking.

It's not the camera can't do that, it's that it cannot do it with the settings you have chosen.

venusian

US
186 posts

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#66. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 65

venusian Registered since 17th Dec 2008
Tue 09-Oct-12 04:55 PM | edited Tue 09-Oct-12 05:05 PM by venusian

Plese see the previous post (#63). You were the first one (reply #1) to suggest a solution to my problem and it went over my head because of an old shooting/focus habit and my lack of experience. I've since switched to AF-C, etc. and the camera is working just great for my street photography (moving or stationary subjects).

Thank you once again for your help!

I've attached several photos from a recent shoot: D800E, 85mm f/1.8G lens.

Click on image to view larger version



Click on image to view larger version



Click on image to view larger version



Click on image to view larger version


Attachment#1 (jpg file)
Attachment#2 (jpg file)
Attachment#3 (jpg file)
Attachment#4 (jpg file)

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

Rharbison

US
33 posts

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#67. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 63

Rharbison Registered since 24th Apr 2008
Tue 09-Oct-12 05:27 PM

>I learned something very useful. When shooting in this mode, and
>with the shutter depressed halfway, if I moved the center
>point focus to a different subject in the composition the
>camera jumped to a new, in-focus setting in real time.
>Amazing!

If you want to see something even cooler, try using the 3D autfocus. It uses all 51 points, and after you lock on, it tracks your subject and follows it around as long as it's visible in the lens.

To be honest, I don't shoot in that mode very often, preferring more control, but it's crazy fun to set it up and watch it do it's thing. I should really use it more often.

rplst8

Johnstown, US
150 posts

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#68. "RE: D800E shutter releases when out of focus?" | In response to Reply # 9

rplst8 Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2008
Tue 09-Oct-12 10:28 PM | edited Tue 09-Oct-12 10:35 PM by rplst8

>With camera set to AF-C, Focus priority, subject out of
>focus:
>
>1. D800 - releases out of focus
>2. D3s - will not release
>3 . D200 - releases out of focus
>4. D7000 - will not release
>5. D2h - will not release
>6. D2x - not tested (screen is broken, can't verify settings)
>7. Nikon 1 - Option not available.
>
>
>So based on these findings, it appears that some Nikon's will
>release, and others will not. I don't know the rhyme or
>reason for it.
>
>Does this help?

I tested my D300, D200, and a friends D700. Using AF-ON (no AF with shutter) All will not release in either AF-C or AF-S if set to focus priority and the camera's green dot is off. Interestingly, even if you focus on something that illuminates the green dot, then release the AF-ON button and recompose so that that the focus point illuminates something out of the DoF it still will *not* release. Also, if you move the camera back so that the AF sensor is over the previously focused upon object and you *don't* press the AF-ON button, no green dot will appear, but the camera *will* release.

The D200, D300, and D700 "sense" if the subject under the selected AF area are in focus or not to determine if it should release! Wow.

My D800 behaves exactly the opposite of all of these cameras and contrary to the operating manual. I think it's a bug.

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

G