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D800 + what wide angle lens?

klrbee25

Naples, US
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klrbee25 Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2006
Tue 28-Aug-12 06:55 PM | edited Tue 28-Aug-12 06:55 PM by klrbee25

This may get moved to the lens forum, but it's in relation to the D800. I'm trying to round out my lens lineup for my D800 and the wide angle lens category is killing me. Nikon's 14-24 is the creme de la creme in terms of resolution and distortion control but can't mount filters. The Nikon 16-35 f/4 seems like a worthy alternative since it has a 77mm filter mount but the reviews are less than stellar for a $1500 lens. Then there are the third party FX wide angle options that all seem like compromises (can't mount filters, poor corner resolution, etc). So what in the world are you guys using for wide angle landscape photography on your D800s? For now I'm getting by with my Sigma 10-20 (a DX lens) and just cropping the vignette out. It probably gets me down to 8mm as a side benefit, but I'm sure it's far from performing well compared to these other options.


-Alex Rosen
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ericbowles

Atlanta, US
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#1. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 0

ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005
Tue 28-Aug-12 05:12 PM

I use the 16-35 f/4 on my D800E. The filter threads are important as I use a CP or Vari-N-Duo for stream images. I also have some specific situations photographing from canoes or handheld where VR is very important.

The vast majority of my images involve f/8-f/13 - so the lack of f/2.8 does not matter.

I have and use a 16mm f/2.8 fisheye which provides some added options.

I don't think the loss of image quality is that important. I have and often use the 24-70, so if I need something beyond the 16-35, I have an option.

The 16-35 is a light weight lens. It also performs well for IR photography. So for me, the 16-35 benefits outweight the small quality advantage of the 14-24.


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klrbee25

Naples, US
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#2. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 1

klrbee25 Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2006
Tue 28-Aug-12 05:16 PM

Glad to hear the 16-35 works well for you. I have one reserved for rental for my upcoming trip to Yellowstone. I 100% agree that filter compatibility is important. Frankly, I can't believe Nikon would make the 14-24 with no way of mounting a filter. Even a slide-over-the-built-in-lens-hood filter holder would be better than nothing (even if only compatible from 18mm and above).

-Alex Rosen
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InsaneO

Encino, US
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#3. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 0

InsaneO Registered since 09th May 2012
Tue 28-Aug-12 05:42 PM

Unfortunately Nikon QC is not that great so you might be reading reviews of 16-35mm F4 who did not get a good copy.
Fortunately I got really good copy acceptably sharp corner to corner even wide open. Stopped down a little it is perfect.
I have also talked to some owners of 14-24mm who actually sold it and bought 16-35mm just so they can have a filter capability and all of them told me that 16-35mm just as sharp as 14-24mm. Maybe or maybe not because I did not run any test to compare but I am happy with my copy.
YMMV.

mklass

Tacoma, US
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#4. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 2

mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006
Tue 28-Aug-12 05:47 PM

The reason the 14-24 won't take a filter is that it would be very, very difficult to make it work. Polarizers and manyother filters do not work very well across the frame with that wide of angle of view. None of the extreme super wides (14-24 Nikkor; Sigma 12-24, Sigma 8-16 for DX, or any fisheye) will take a filter on the front. Look at the front element of each of thema dn you can seee why. The Lee filter adapter for the 14-24 might be OK for some filters, but not a polarizer and possible not too good with a grad.

I've had a 14-24 for quite some time, using it on D3, D3s, D700 and D800e. Frankly, I've never missed the ability to use a filter, but I should would miss the images that I can get with it.

So you can believe that Nikon would make the 14-24 without the ability to mount a front filter, and they did it for a good reason.

Mick
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klrbee25

Naples, US
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#5. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 4

klrbee25 Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2006
Tue 28-Aug-12 05:52 PM | edited Tue 28-Aug-12 05:54 PM by klrbee25

If there is a single lens I use filters with the most, it's my wide angle. My main drawback is the inability to use ND filters. There is no good way to shoot it through a ND filter without a lot of light leakage around the filter. I can cheat with flat front lenses just by holding the filter up without a holder. But on the 14-24, the fixed hood will allow a lot of light to leak in. Polarizers and grads could still work in some situations even on these ultrawide lenses (I use them routinely on my DX Sigma 10-20). Overall, the 14-24 seems like a better architectural lens than a landscape lens.

Maybe I just need both lenses .

-Alex Rosen
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mklass

Tacoma, US
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#6. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 5

mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006
Tue 28-Aug-12 06:38 PM

>If there is a single lens I use filters with the most, it's
>my wide angle. My main drawback is the inability to use ND
>filters. There is no good way to shoot it through a ND filter
>without a lot of light leakage around the filter. I can cheat
>with flat front lenses just by holding the filter up without a
>holder. But on the 14-24, the fixed hood will allow a lot of
>light to leak in. Polarizers and grads could still work in
>some situations even on these ultrawide lenses (I use them
>routinely on my DX Sigma 10-20). Overall, the 14-24 seems
>like a better architectural lens than a landscape lens.
>
>Maybe I just need both lenses .

Actually, you need every lens,

Your Sigma 10-20 is a DX lens, so it is the FX equivalent of a 15-30 lens, pretty close to the 16-35 Nikkor.

It does not have the seriously curved front element of the DX Sigma 8-16 or the FX 14-24 Nikkor or 12-24 Sigma. Those lenses are all closer to looking like a Fisheye and none take front filters. Rear mounted gel filters are usable on some of those, but I can't vouch for the quality of that arrangement. Perhaps the ability to mount a rear slide-in filter, similar to some of the Nikon and Sigma Super Telephotos would work, although it would increase the price and bulk.

If filters are a requirement, then the 16-35 is probably your best bet. I've never used one, myself. I tried the Tokina 17-35 f/4 but don't recommend it. At f/4, it is mush across the whole frame and only is acceptably sharp between f/8 and f/11. A true case of you get what you pay for.

Mick
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klrbee25

Naples, US
1386 posts

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#7. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 6

klrbee25 Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2006
Tue 28-Aug-12 06:45 PM | edited Tue 28-Aug-12 06:45 PM by klrbee25

I have a rental reservation for the 16-35 f/4 and I'll post again once I've tried it out. Yellowstone trip is the third week in Sept...it's a ways off but just 'gearing' up .


-Alex Rosen
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briantilley

Paignton, UK
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#8. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 3

briantilley Gold Member Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003
Tue 28-Aug-12 09:05 PM

>Unfortunately Nikon QC is not that great...

Please provide some evidence for that statement - or is it just another personal opinion?

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

bdudzik

Richland, US
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#9. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 0

bdudzik Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Apr 2009
Tue 28-Aug-12 09:13 PM

1st Post so be nice!

I am waiting to purchase a D800E and I have a 17-35 f/2.8 lens. How does the 17-35 compare to the 14-24 and 16-35? Filters acn be used on the 17-35 though the manual warns against CP filter vignetting at 17 mm.

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ericbowles

Atlanta, US
10538 posts

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#10. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 7

ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005
Tue 28-Aug-12 09:24 PM

Here's a sample 16-35 image. Taken with the D800E and a CP. Without the CP there was just too much reflection off the wet rocks.

Click on image to view larger version


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Attachment#1 (jpg file)

klrbee25

Naples, US
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#11. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 9

klrbee25 Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2006
Tue 28-Aug-12 09:46 PM

While the other lenses may have some benefits or improvements, I wouldn't swap to them if I already had invested in the 17-35 f/2.8 unless one of those benefits was substantial. I can't think of any unless you really need a wider lens (14mm).

-Alex Rosen
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nikonus

Southern California, US
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#12. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 0

nikonus Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 04th Feb 2007
Tue 28-Aug-12 09:57 PM | edited Tue 28-Aug-12 10:41 PM by nikonus

I own a 14-24 2.8 , and it is sharp through most all the aperture range . Other lenses are very close at f 8 - f 11 . I could see if you pack in or travel the 14 - 24 would be a problem . It has its own case / bag ,as it is too large to fit in most cases / back packs . I think its worth the trouble to haul . See the flickr link for sharpness graph .

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hirokik/4231862738/



Click on image to view larger version


Attachment#1 (jpg file)

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Wingman

Kimberley, CA
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#13. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 11

Wingman Silver Member Awarded for sharing his excellent work and continued contribution to the forums, most notably at the Aviation forum. Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2002
Tue 28-Aug-12 10:01 PM | edited Tue 28-Aug-12 10:02 PM by Wingman

In looking at these options, don't forget that the 16-35 does have VR, which I find to be somewhere between very useful and essential for a lot of the work I do. My 16-35 is a very fine lens, and is holding up nicely through some extensive use in bad conditions.

Neal Nurmi

---Wingman Photo---

GiantTristan

Stamford, US
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#14. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 9

GiantTristan Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2006
Tue 28-Aug-12 10:21 PM

If you can manage without filters - I have been able to do that for four years and after taking many pictures, the 14-24/2.8 is the best among the excellent Nikon f/2.8 zooms and holds its own with my Zeiss prime lenses. The 14-24 is sharp, with little distortion, excellent color and micro contrast with no corner softness even wide open.

Though I am not as good a photographer as Eric and only have a lowly D700, I attach a capture taken at 14mm.

Click on image to view larger version


Attachment#1 (jpg file)

Tristan

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klrbee25

Naples, US
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#15. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 14

klrbee25 Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2006
Tue 28-Aug-12 10:25 PM

Gorgeous. I need both.

-Alex Rosen
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GiantTristan

Stamford, US
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#16. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 12

GiantTristan Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2006
Tue 28-Aug-12 10:28 PM

My light, high IQ travel kit is Nikon 14-24, Zeiss 35/2 and Zeiss 100/2. Has worked great for all kinds of travel with no damage to me or the 14/24.

Tristan

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ericbowles

Atlanta, US
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#17. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 9

ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005
Tue 28-Aug-12 10:39 PM

Welcome to Nikonians. And thanks for joining the dialog.

I've seen some very good images with the 17-35 and D800. It is a very good lens. The 16-35 probably has a small edge in terms of quality - plus VR. The 16-35 is a little better at managing reflections and flare. The 17-35 is very good and gets you f/2.8 - and it also takes filters. The 14-24 is slightly better than both in quality and is a little wider, but gives up VR and is a bit heavy.

You can't lose with any of these lenses. Unless you have special needs, there would be no major reason to upgrade form the 17-35.

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MotoMannequin

Livermore, CA, US
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#18. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 6

MotoMannequin Awarded for his extraordinary skills in landscape and wildlife photography Registered since 11th Jan 2006
Tue 28-Aug-12 10:45 PM

>If filters are a requirement, then the 16-35 is probably your
>best bet. I've never used one, myself. I tried the Tokina
>17-35 f/4 but don't recommend it. At f/4, it is mush across
>the whole frame and only is acceptably sharp between f/8 and
>f/11. A true case of you get what you pay for.

Mick apparently had a bad copy of the Tokina 17-35 f/4. Personally I'm thrilled with mine. It's sharper on-center at f/4 than my friend's 14-24 although the 14-24 wins in the corners at that aperture. Stopped down to f/8, where I'm more likely to use this lens, the corners catch up. Even better, it's built like a tank, nearly distortion free, and the flare handling is bordering on miraculous. The only downside I'd say is 82mm filters.

Larry - a Bay Area Nikonian
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GiantTristan

Stamford, US
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#19. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 15

GiantTristan Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2006
Tue 28-Aug-12 11:09 PM

Glad you like the picture. Here are a few more to demonstrate the versatility and IQ of the 14-24. On the upper right hand side is a pull down menu, "i", that gives you the shooting parameters. You will note that a majority if the captures are a 14mm, which is a huge difference in angle of view from 16mm. Pl. also note that a few shots were at f/2.8 for focus isolation which does not work that well at f/4.

http://gianttristan.smugmug.com/SelectPictures/Nikon-14-24/24879436_gf4Z3G/

The wide dynamic range of the D800 should reduce the need for ND filters. Besides, you can always use exposure blending and I prefer photographing waterfalls on a cloudy day anyway, hence no need for a cpl. I suggest you rent the 16-35/4 and the 14-24/2.8 for a week and then decide.

Tristan

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true_superfly

US
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#20. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 3

true_superfly Registered since 27th Mar 2012
Wed 29-Aug-12 12:31 AM

Isn't the latest D800 left AF issue well-documented well-known enough as an evidence of the Nikon QC issue?

Superfly

mklass

Tacoma, US
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#21. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 20

mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006
Wed 29-Aug-12 12:36 AM

1 body, 1 problem, Doesn't necessarily apply to lenses or everything else Nikon makes.I think you are over-generalizing.

Just because you dropped something once or twice doesn't make you a total klutz.

Mick
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orftoden

Lakewood, US
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#22. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 16

orftoden Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Jun 2008
Wed 29-Aug-12 01:21 AM

What about the Zeiss 25mm F/2? I know it's not a zoom, but if you are after a landscape lens, you don't really need a zoom or af in most situations. I have the 35mm f/2 and I will have a hard time going back to Nikon lenses after having a chance to shoot this lens. My 24mm PC-e may be on the chopping block for one of these babies in the near future.

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true_superfly

US
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#23. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 20

true_superfly Registered since 27th Mar 2012
Wed 29-Aug-12 02:12 AM | edited Wed 29-Aug-12 02:30 AM by true_superfly

:) I love proving challenges. I have a master degree in statistics. Good to have a chance to get some practice.

Original statement was "Nikon's QC is not so great". The evidence I cited about the D800 AF issue is a "somewhat random" sample. I don't have to prove ALL Nikon products have QC problems. All I need is to draw a somewhat random or best representative sample. If Nikon's QC is really that good, that any "somewhat" random sample or best representative sample should have a reasonable consistency.

Why I said a "somewhat random sample"? Because nobody cares about Nikon's QC on small products that much. The official term for this "somewhat" is called "sampling weight". To give an extreme example, does anybody really care about how consistent is Nikon's quality of its lens cleaning pens? For QC to be meaningful and critical, it would be on its sophisticated products! That's why "sampling weight" would be significantly higher in those sophisticated products like D800. Agree? On top of that, "sampling weight" will be significantly higher in CURRENT sophisticated products, because we are talking about "Nikon's QC IS not so great". So don't bother to bring up the good old day lens and bodies.

The evidence from D800 happens to be most published data I can access. It's the best representative sample of the CURRENT Nikon QC. It has a huge production and user numbers. I don't see any other current Nikon sophisticated products as representative as the D800. As a disclaimer, I have a perfect D800 body. If anything, I would favor the other side of argument. Now, be to more specific, even from a poll conducted on this forum "how many D800 has AF issue". There was at least 25% D800 bodies have AF issue. No matter how you look at it, that's not a trivial problem as you put it "1 body 1 problem". It's a near-disaster for a Nikon "flagship" product of the year!

I am not sure where did you learn your proving skills. From Political science, perhaps?


InsaneO

Encino, US
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#25. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 8

InsaneO Registered since 09th May 2012
Wed 29-Aug-12 03:21 AM

>>Unfortunately Nikon QC is not that great...
>
>Please provide some evidence for that statement - or is it
>just another personal opinion?

Let's see:
1. Overwhelming complaints about left focus issues.
We could ignore ALL Joe-schmoe complaints as user error we can't ignore big shots like Thom Hogan.
2. Green tint on rear LCD. Yep, everyone has it (and those who say they don't just ignoring it) but it pales in comparison to left focus bug.

3. Only officially supported Sandisk and Lexar. Most old and new CF cards don't work in D800. Are you kidding me Nikon? I have never seen a camera ( and I had many of them) not to work at all with CF cards.

4. My own post about lenses in Lens forum.
Plus my camera came with huge backfocus. Had to be sent for adjustment.
And finally while having SD card in addition to CF card but SD card is set to overflow I get hourglass every 30 or so shots like it is waiting for something. If I press shutter button hourglass goes away. Nothing is really wrong because shot is recorded anyway and nothing is lost. But I doubt very much if Nikon didn't see this before they released the camera.

So is it enough evidence or just my opinion?








NASattack

Dartford, UK
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#26. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 25

NASattack Silver Member Nikonian since 13th Feb 2008
Wed 29-Aug-12 04:31 AM

16-35mm AFS G ED VR gets my vote.Walked around London with it all day with a D800E last Monday and was blown away with the results.When I get home tonight will try and post a few samples here.

Steve.

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nikonus

Southern California, US
498 posts

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#27. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 16

nikonus Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 04th Feb 2007
Wed 29-Aug-12 08:43 AM

>My light, high IQ travel kit is Nikon 14-24, Zeiss 35/2 and
>Zeiss 100/2. Has worked great for all kinds of travel with no
>damage to me or the 14/24.

Agreed

The 14 - 24 follows the series of short zooms . The 12-24 DX is a great lens ,people fail to see a few mm at the wide end makes a big difference . If you don't fill the frame you can crop
out a reasonable 4000 - 5000 pixel wide image . This gets you back to a 30 -35 mm perspective or higher . So , its more versatile on the D800 than 12MP bodies .

If D800s are so problematic why aren't they being dumped on eBay at reduced prices ?


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GiantTristan

Stamford, US
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#28. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 22

GiantTristan Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2006
Wed 29-Aug-12 09:31 AM

>What about the Zeiss 25mm F/2? I know it's not a zoom, but
>if you are after a landscape lens, you don't really need a
>zoom or af in most situations.

This is indeed a formidable lens. As an added bonus, you don't have to worry about AF problems and every Zeiss lens comes with a test certificate.

Tristan

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mklass

Tacoma, US
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#29. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 23

mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006
Wed 29-Aug-12 09:48 AM | edited Wed 29-Aug-12 12:02 PM by mklass

Actually, I took several statistic classes as well. So please don't disparage my remarks and think you have a corner on the market. Your personal attack is not in the spirit (or terms of serivice) of Nikonians.

You made a broad generalization about Nikon' QC being "not so great". You have taken one case, that actually is not well documented statistically,but with only anecdotal evidence available, and expanded it. The "most published data" you cite on the D800 is not exactly a statistical analysis, or even a representative sample. In addition, you took one example about one type of product (a camera body) and expanded it to cover all Nikon products with your generalization. But ignoring the small stuff (lens caps and such) you've asserted that your generalization based on a body problem also coves the lens under discussion. THat's a bit of a leap, don't you think?

If you are going to make broad assertions, as you did, expect that not everyone will swallow it without thinking.

BTW, my "sampling weight" is that none of the many Nikon products that I have bought within the past 6 years has had a defect. And that covers 10 DSLR camera bodies and over 20 lenses.

One of the books in my statistics classes was called "How to Lie with Statistics". It was part of the curriculum in order to show how statistics can be misused. Good book.

Mick
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mklass

Tacoma, US
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#30. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 25

mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006
Wed 29-Aug-12 10:02 AM | edited Wed 29-Aug-12 12:03 PM by mklass

>1. Overwhelming complaints about left focus issues.
>We could ignore ALL Joe-schmoe complaints as user error we
>can't ignore big shots like Thom Hogan.
Mine is fine, but I realize others have a problem. I can get sharp shots with my D800e. Not sure what kind of "shot"that implies.

>2. Green tint on rear LCD. Yep, everyone has it (and those who
>say they don't just ignoring it) but it pales in comparison to
>left focus bug.
I don't have it, so not "everyone" does. I've compared my D80e next to my D3s and D7000.
>
>3. Only officially supported Sandisk and Lexar. Most old and
>new CF cards don't work in D800. Are you kidding me Nikon? I
>have never seen a camera ( and I had many of them) not to work
>at all with CF cards. I have used my with Delkin and Kingston cars, as well as Sandisk and Lexar. Some of those cards are a few years old. No problem.
>
>4. My own post about lenses in Lens forum.

Your own post describes you issues. I have no issues with my Nikon equipment. It would be just as valid to draw conclusions from my experience as yours, or should I say as equally invalid.

>So is it enough evidence or just my opinion?
It is your opinion, based on you experience, as my opinion on Nikon quality control is based on my experience. They are certainly different and would seem to indicate that making broad generalizations would be a mistake.

Anyway, we are getting away for the subject of this thread and the OP's question. So if you want to discuss this further, please send me a private message or start a thread in another, more appropriate forum.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
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ericbowles

Atlanta, US
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#31. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 23

ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005
Wed 29-Aug-12 10:44 AM

We've gotten way off topic here. Let's stay with the original topic.

A discussion of statistical methods for evaluating manufacturing and design is probably best moved to a new topic in the Cafe.

Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
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Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

WhereRu

Pleasant Prairie, US
95 posts

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#32. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 0

WhereRu Basic Member
Wed 29-Aug-12 11:41 AM

I have used the 17-35 f/2.8 for years. The results on the D800 are simply stunning. It's a fantastic lens and stays on my camera more than any other. Great for portraits, landscape, stars/milky way, and video as well.

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bdudzik

Richland, US
18 posts

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#33. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 32

bdudzik Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Apr 2009
Wed 29-Aug-12 03:23 PM

>I have used the 17-35 f/2.8 for years. The results on the
>D800 are simply stunning. It's a fantastic lens and stays on
>my camera more than any other. Great for portraits,
>landscape, stars/milky way, and video as well.
Thanks for the feedback. Any caveats I should be aware of using the 17-35 on the D800/D800E?

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InsaneO

Encino, US
395 posts

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#34. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 29

InsaneO Registered since 09th May 2012
Wed 29-Aug-12 04:24 PM

>Actually, I took several statistic classes as well. So please
>don't disparage my remarks and think you have a corner on the
>market. Your personal attack is not in the spirit (or terms of
>serivice) of Nikonians.
>
>You made a broad generalization about Nikon' QC being
>"not so great". You have taken one case, that
>actually is not well documented statistically,but with only
>anecdotal evidence available, and expanded it. The "most
>published data" you cite on the D800 is not exactly a
>statistical analysis, or even a representative sample. In
>addition, you took one example about one type of product (a
>camera body) and expanded it to cover all Nikon products with
>your generalization. But ignoring the small stuff (lens caps
>and such) you've asserted that your generalization based on a
>body problem also coves the lens under discussion. THat's a
>bit of a leap, don't you think?
>
>If you are going to make broad assertions, as you did, expect
>that not everyone will swallow it without thinking.
>
>BTW, my "sampling weight" is that none of the many
>Nikon products that I have bought within the past 6 years has
>had a defect. And that covers 10 DSLR camera bodies and over
>20 lenses.
>
>One of the books in my statistics classes was called "How
>to Lie with Statistics". It was part of the curriculum in
>order to show how statistics can be misused. Good book.
>

Ever thought maybe you are "lucky" and the other people who complain about Nikon QC are normal?
Ever since Nikon got in to digital business they had QC problems. Lots of them!!!!!!
You send me PM and I will make you a huge list. After all this is OT which you have no problem with.

WhereRu

Pleasant Prairie, US
95 posts

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#35. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 33

WhereRu Basic Member
Wed 29-Aug-12 05:46 PM

I do get a little vignetting when using a CP at 17mm. It's not VR but I have never missed it. It is a heavy lens. Build quality and picture quality makes up for everything. These items are not specific to a D800/800E, just the way the lens is.

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RavenDog

Jeannette, US
154 posts

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#36. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 33

RavenDog Silver Member Nikonian since 16th Jan 2009
Wed 29-Aug-12 07:12 PM

If someone laid down three lens options and said you can have only one which one would you take?

a. 14-24mm
b. 17-35mm
c. 16-35mm plus $840

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supergimp

Los Angeles, US
89 posts

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#37. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 35

supergimp Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Sep 2008
Wed 29-Aug-12 07:25 PM

In an attempt to try not to go broke and get out of my Sigma 10-20 DX, I purchased the 16-35 used from someone here on Nikonians. I have to be honest and say I really wanted the 14-24, but there was a really fair deal here and I thought it best to jump on it. I have to say that it has performed wonderfully on my D800E and I'm extra happy that I can mount a VariND on it.

I think it's a wonderful lens.

And not to go off topic, but I find the comment about CF cards interesting. I realize Nikon only certifies Lexar and SanDisk, but I've used a bunch of different cards: Delkin, Transcend, Patriot, Kodak (!?!?), as well and have yet to find one that doesn't work.

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MotoMannequin

Livermore, CA, US
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#38. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 36

MotoMannequin Awarded for his extraordinary skills in landscape and wildlife photography Registered since 11th Jan 2006
Wed 29-Aug-12 08:10 PM

>If someone laid down three lens options and said you can have
>only one which one would you take?
>
>a. 14-24mm
>b. 17-35mm
>c. 16-35mm plus $840

C. Like Eric I'm a "use filters on my WA" guy.

Larry - a Bay Area Nikonian
My Nikonians gallery

www.tempered-light.com

supergimp

Los Angeles, US
89 posts

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#39. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 36

supergimp Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Sep 2008
Wed 29-Aug-12 08:27 PM

>If someone laid down three lens options and said you can have
>only one which one would you take?
>
>a. 14-24mm
>b. 17-35mm
>c. 16-35mm plus $840

Before I bought the 16 - 35, I would have picked A. I'm perfectly happy with C now and I can think of lots of things to do with the cash.

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GiantTristan

Stamford, US
2675 posts

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#40. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 36

GiantTristan Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2006
Wed 29-Aug-12 10:19 PM

>If someone laid down three lens options and said you can have
>only one which one would you take?
>
>a. 14-24mm
>b. 17-35mm
>c. 16-35mm plus $840

a.

Tristan

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nikonus

Southern California, US
498 posts

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#41. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 36

nikonus Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 04th Feb 2007
Wed 29-Aug-12 10:30 PM

If someone laid down three lens options and said you can have
only one which one would you take?

a. 14-24mm
b. 17-35mm
c. 16-35mm plus $840

*****************************

a. " Go wide or go home " 14 mm !!

Hans K.

My Gallery

Visit my Nikonians gallery. nikonus@nikonians.org

Nic0807

Floreal, MU
16 posts

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#42. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 41

Nic0807 Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Jun 2011
Thu 30-Aug-12 02:04 AM

Is there a logic that Nikon would release a new version of 14-24 f/2.8 with VR + possibility to mount filters on it soon? I am also planning to purchase this lens for my D800.
Regards, Nicolas

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InsaneO

Encino, US
395 posts

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#43. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 13

InsaneO Registered since 09th May 2012
Thu 30-Aug-12 04:33 AM

If you do a lot of night photography 16-35 VR is great because you don't need to bring tripod. Last year during Halloween party I did not have this lens and 3 guys showed up in the TRON costumes. I had Canon 16-35mm and most shots came out blurry. Still usable but blurry.
I am definitely bringing this VR lens this year.

RIW

Kings Lynn, UK
265 posts

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#44. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 0

RIW Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2009
Thu 30-Aug-12 07:51 AM

Hi Alex!

Just to make your choice more difficult. On my D800E I normally use a Zeiss 21 mm f2.8. It is a superb lens with no focus shift issues. Excellent for close-up and landscape. My preference in the lab too for product photography as the working distance is convenient.

In very close vegetation when I need to isolate one plant I use a Zeiss 15 mm f2.8. This is an incredible lens. In head to head comparison with the nikon 14-24 I much prefer it. A bit pricey but after a months use I would buy another if this got stolen! Not every lens I have gets this rating.

Roderick

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klrbee25

Naples, US
1386 posts

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#45. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 42

klrbee25 Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2006
Thu 30-Aug-12 08:20 AM

You'll be waiting a long time for something that will probably never happen. VR will up the price considerably and the lens design with convex front element and fixed hood are really what precludes filter use.

-Alex Rosen
www.flickr.com/photos/klrbee25/

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klrbee25

Naples, US
1386 posts

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#46. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 44

klrbee25 Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2006
Thu 30-Aug-12 08:23 AM

The 15mm Zeiss sounded like a good plan until I just saw the price. $4600?!?!?!

I really could get a 14-24 and a 16-35 at that price. And I'd still have $1000 left over .

-Alex Rosen
www.flickr.com/photos/klrbee25/

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GiantTristan

Stamford, US
2675 posts

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#47. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 46

GiantTristan Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2006
Thu 30-Aug-12 09:31 AM | edited Thu 30-Aug-12 10:37 AM by GiantTristan

The price of the Zeiss 15/2.8 is $2950

The IQ of the Zeiss 21/2.8 and the Nikon 14-24/2.8 is about equal, only wide open the Zeiss is slightly better.

If you focus with LiveView at the shooting aperture, focus shift is a non issue.

For focus isolation you use f/2.8 where there us no focus shift.

Tristan

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mklass

Tacoma, US
7421 posts

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#48. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 42

mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006
Thu 30-Aug-12 11:36 AM

I would be very surprised if they did any of that.

The lens is already large and hefty, adding VR would make it much bigger and heavier. Not to mention the cost would sky-rocket. To me, the utility of VR on a wide angle lens is questionable. It seems to be more of a gimmick for the consumer and pro-sumer markets.

Unless someone has some new optical wizardry, the design of the front of the lens will make it difficult to build in a filter mount. Look at the older Nikon 14mm f/2.8. It doesn't look at whole lot different than the 14-24. (As noted above, the Sigma 12-24 and Sigma 8-16 for DX, to other ultra-wide zooms also have this design issue.) That couldn't take front filters either. It is an inherent limitation of lenses of that focal range. You can't change the laws of physics.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

klrbee25

Naples, US
1386 posts

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#49. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 47

klrbee25 Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2006
Thu 30-Aug-12 11:36 AM

Hmmm, it is $2950. I searched on my iPhone and must have found some old version that was $4600 and discontinued through BH.

-Alex Rosen
www.flickr.com/photos/klrbee25/

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GiantTristan

Stamford, US
2675 posts

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#50. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 49

GiantTristan Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2006
Thu 30-Aug-12 12:45 PM | edited Thu 30-Aug-12 12:48 PM by GiantTristan

Maybe you are interested in this article which compares the Zeiss 15/2.8 with the Nikon 14-24/2.8: http://www.3d-kraft.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=127:uwa-comparison&catid=40:camerasandlenses&Itemid=2 . I am very partial towards Zeiss lenses, but with the Nikon zoom you get the equivalent of the four Zeiss primes: 25/2, 21/2.8, 18/3.5 and 15/2.8. Obviously, you have the severe limitation that you cannot use a cpl to remove reflections on water...

Tristan

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Tinkers Realm

Pacific Wonderland!, US
266 posts

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#51. "RE: D800 + what wide angle lens?" | In response to Reply # 49

Tinkers Realm Registered since 24th Feb 2011
Thu 30-Aug-12 12:48 PM

I chose the 14-24mm this year- was tired of waiting for a "Newer version" to be released- I did sell my 16mm fisheye to help fund it & now regret letting that cool lense
go!




Art is the only way to run away without leaving home.



www.TinkersRealm.com

G