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D800 and diffraction effects.

NASattack

Dartford, UK
177 posts

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NASattack Silver Member Nikonian since 13th Feb 2008
Wed 15-Feb-12 09:40 AM

So with the D800/D800e images starting to desharpen at about F9 due to the effects of diffraction how are landscape photographers going to take advantage of the 36mp sensor at F11 or more?

Steve.

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nikonus

Southern California, US
505 posts

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#1. "RE: D800 and diffraction effects." | In response to Reply # 0

nikonus Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 04th Feb 2007
Wed 15-Feb-12 10:38 AM

At 36.3 MP people will be happy with the worst image it makes . After everyone down sizes it
to 1000 pixels wide to post on the web . Only the dynamic range will be left to boast about .
Maybe the .2 % better resolution of the D800E .

Hans K.

My Gallery

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AreBee

Inverness, UK
531 posts

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#2. "RE: D800 and diffraction effects." | In response to Reply # 0

AreBee Registered since 27th Apr 2008
Wed 15-Feb-12 10:46 AM

Steve,

>...with the D800/D800e images starting to desharpen at about F9 due to the effects of diffraction how are landscape photographers going to take advantage of the 36mp sensor at F11 or more?<

They will use the tilt feature of a tilt/shift lens at a larger aperture, or knowingly shoot at an aperture that suffers from diffraction because they consider the additional depth of field advantage to outweigh the loss in overall sharpness.

Rob
www.robbuckle.co.uk

Leonard62

Pa, US
4419 posts

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#3. "RE: D800 and diffraction effects." | In response to Reply # 0

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Wed 15-Feb-12 01:39 PM

>So with the D800/D800e images starting to desharpen at about
>F9 due to the effects of diffraction how are landscape
>photographers going to take advantage of the 36mp sensor at
>F11 or more?
>
>Steve.

The effects of diffraction at f11 or even f16 will be gradual and hardly noticed until you get into large enlargements. It will certainly be noticed at 100% crops. But as a landscape shooter I hardly crop at all. I use my PC 85mm quite frequently at f16 and f22 on my D3X and quite frankly the photos, even at those apertures, are gorgeous.

Len


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NASattack

Dartford, UK
177 posts

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#4. "RE: D800 and diffraction effects." | In response to Reply # 3

NASattack Silver Member Nikonian since 13th Feb 2008
Wed 15-Feb-12 02:52 PM

So are we saying that we can use the D800 for large enlargements but not at F16 or smaller.
So more MP is less quality then? Interesting scenario!

Steve.

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SVA

CH
645 posts

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#5. "RE: D800 and diffraction effects." | In response to Reply # 4

SVA Registered since 26th Jun 2004
Wed 15-Feb-12 03:49 PM | edited Wed 15-Feb-12 03:50 PM by SVA

Nothing to worry about - more megapixels will never lead to less resolving power. Increased diffraction will just eat some part of resolution increase one could wait from the increased photosite density, not all of it. For example, if up to f/11 48MP full-frame sensor will give double lines-per-millimeter in comparison to a 12MP sensor, at f/16 the resolving power may be only 1,5 times higher or so, but at no given f-stop it will be less than equal. I mean - if you print the same format (20*30 from both cameras without cropping for example), NOT the same pixel scale (100% crop @ 300 dpi).

Vladimir
Russian Nikonian in Switzerland

MotoMannequin

Livermore, CA, US
8582 posts

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#6. "RE: D800 and diffraction effects." | In response to Reply # 5

MotoMannequin Awarded for his extraordinary skills in landscape and wildlife photography Registered since 11th Jan 2006
Wed 15-Feb-12 07:54 PM

Vlad has it right. Worst-case scenario is that diffraction causes a D800 image to be equal to a lower-res image. It will never be worse.

And I'll add, as Rob implies above, you're always better getting DOF right, even if ultimate sharpness suffers due to diffraction. Your subject will always appear sharper by being within DOF and diffracted, than by being outside DOF but not diffracted.

>Nothing to worry about - more megapixels will never lead to
>less resolving power. Increased diffraction will just eat some
>part of resolution increase one could wait from the increased
>photosite density, not all of it. For example, if up to f/11
>48MP full-frame sensor will give double lines-per-millimeter
>in comparison to a 12MP sensor, at f/16 the resolving power
>may be only 1,5 times higher or so, but at no given f-stop it
>will be less than equal. I mean - if you print the same format
>(20*30 from both cameras without cropping for example), NOT
>the same pixel scale (100% crop @ 300 dpi).


Larry - a Bay Area Nikonian
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www.tempered-light.com

Leonard62

Pa, US
4419 posts

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#7. "RE: D800 and diffraction effects." | In response to Reply # 4

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Wed 15-Feb-12 04:22 PM

>So are we saying that we can use the D800 for large
>enlargements but not at F16 or smaller.
>So more MP is less quality then? Interesting scenario!
>
>Steve.
>

As Vladimir says don't worry about it.

Here's a photo I just took with my D3X with a mf 200mm f4 lens. I shot the photo at f8 and f22. The D3X starts getting into diffraction at f11.

Here's the photo.

Click on image to view larger version


Here's a 50% crop of both photos side by side. f8 on the left f22 on the right. This would be a pretty big print.
Click on image to view larger version


And finally side by side 100% crops. f8 on the left f22 on the right.
Click on image to view larger version


Here you can see the effect of diffraction. So if you view or print at normal or even large sizes don't worry about it. Don't forget the larger the print the further away the viewing distance and the problem disappears.

Len



Attachment#1 (jpg file)
Attachment#2 (jpg file)
Attachment#3 (jpg file)

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gqtuazon

FPO, US
644 posts

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#8. "RE: D800 and diffraction effects." | In response to Reply # 7

gqtuazon Registered since 18th Nov 2009
Wed 15-Feb-12 08:06 PM

A lot have been contributed already. Most of the sample shots used with a zoom lens (Nikon 24-70mm f2.8) with the D800 pretty much stayed at f8 for optimal sharpness. The sample below is a crop image to show the lens diffraction as you go above f8. Click on the image for larger view.

Click on image to view larger version


Regards,

Glenn

f11

Tulsa, US
865 posts

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#9. "RE: D800 and diffraction effects." | In response to Reply # 8

f11 Gold Member Nikonian since 23rd Feb 2006
Wed 15-Feb-12 09:44 PM

HI Glenn, any withdrawal symptoms from NAS when you had to give the D800 back?

Jim

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gqtuazon

FPO, US
644 posts

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#10. "RE: D800 and diffraction effects." | In response to Reply # 9

gqtuazon Registered since 18th Nov 2009
Wed 15-Feb-12 11:01 PM

>HI Glenn, any withdrawal symptoms from NAS when you had to
>give the D800 back?

Worse feeling ever! This also included the D4! I am actually screwed. I already changed my computer wall paper from a D800 to a D4!

Hopefully, my wife will notice how devastated I feel now.


Regards,

Glenn

TomCurious

Bay Area, US
2352 posts

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#11. "RE: D800 and diffraction effects." | In response to Reply # 0

TomCurious Registered since 03rd Jan 2007
Thu 16-Feb-12 01:13 AM

The D7000 is fine for landscapes, even at f/11. Since the D800 has the same pixel density, just a larger sensor, it will be fine, too, even better, in fact.

Tom
Bay Area Nikonian


http://www.tkphoto.me/

G