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Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?

RogersGlobal

US
2 posts

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RogersGlobal Registered since 11th Sep 2012
Tue 11-Sep-12 03:35 PM

I've done a lot of reading on this topic and think I have a handle on how easily the new D800 NEF files can be corrupted by the older versions of Nikon Transfer.
When I began using the camera I accidently made the mistake of corrupting them and haven't had any issues since... until yesterday.

I photographed last night, and imported about 160 RAW NEF files onto my brand new Macbook Pro with Retina for a same day preview for the host. I transfered the images using ViewNX2 & by association it's built-in Nikon Transfer 2 utility. I used the built in SD Card reader on the Macbook which has always worked in the past. But alas!!!!! While they imported fine, LR4 can't import them and gives me the error "Preview Unavailable at this Time". I should note... Nikon Transfer 2 was set to clear the card after the transfer .

Nikon ViewNX2 can see the images and I'd hoped to fix the issue by just converting them to JPEG's but, no bueno. It tells me it can't. This is the precise issue I can into when I accidently used the original version months ago on my iMac. But it's impossible that I have the old version on this unit. It's less than a month old and I'd downloaded the most recent version from Nikon. So I'm running under the assumption that the file is somehow corrupted.

I've seen a lot of people running into issues getting used to the new workflow requied to deal with these enormous RAW's.

Here's the all important question. After the files have an issue... is there anyway to recover them??? I can't retake them, the original shots were wiped from the card. So what do I do? At least Nikon View can see them, so I have to believe that there is some image information there.

Has anyone sucessfully fixed the issue?

Going forward I plan to just import everything directly through LR4, so I think that'll aliviate future heartburn... but what's my "undo" solution?

I know there's a lot that's been written on this topic and really appriciate the support!

-Jared

FineArtSnaps

Leesburg, US
401 posts

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#1. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 0

FineArtSnaps Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jun 2012
Tue 11-Sep-12 02:23 PM

Jared, Here are some things you can do: (1) Never use anything but an external card reader to transfer the files from your camera's card to a folder on your computer. Just drag them from the card reader's folder to your computer's folder. (2) Copy the files you just copied onto your computer to a DVD immediately. Those are your negatives, and you'll be able to go back to them if you need to. (3) Import the files from the folder on your computer into Lightroom by simply dragging the folder to Lightroom. (4) Forget about Nikon software. Nikon makes great cameras and Adobe makes great software. Adobe doesn't try to make cameras and Nikon shouldn't try to make software. Software is outside Nikon's area of expertise, as they've demonstrated many times.

Russ Lewis
www.russ-lewis.com
www.FineArtSnaps.com

Timeshifte

Dayton, US
206 posts

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#2. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 1

Timeshifte Gold Member Nikonian since 10th May 2012
Tue 11-Sep-12 04:43 PM

There is software out there that will let you recover the deleted files from your sd card if you haven't written over them yet.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

sxmwb

Longview, US
64 posts

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#3. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 0

sxmwb Silver Member Nikonian since 23rd Jul 2011
Tue 11-Sep-12 06:48 PM

I have been using Lightroom 4 without any issues for import from both an external reader and the one on my laptop. It seems to work great.

Also, for card recovery I have tried both Stellar Phoenix and Card Recovery. For card larger than 4Gig, Card Recovery works fantastic. Stellar Phoenix you have to break your recovery down into chunks which is a pain.

Mike

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PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
2807 posts

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#4. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 3

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Tue 11-Sep-12 07:35 PM

>I have been using Lightroom 4 without any issues for import
>from both an external reader and the one on my laptop. It
>seems to work great.

THIS.

I've been shooting my D800 since April. I have not had a single issue even once. I shoot, copy the card to my external drive on the computer, and import into LR. At the very outset, I did have to convert to DNG since there was a compatibility issue, but that was solved by early May. Iv'e processed well over 10k D800 images at this point with no issues at all.

------
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Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
5701 posts

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#5. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 4

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Tue 11-Sep-12 07:52 PM


>I've been shooting my D800 since April. I have not had a
>single issue even once. I shoot, copy the card to my external
>drive on the computer, and import into LR. At the very
>outset, I did have to convert to DNG since there was a
>compatibility issue, but that was solved by early May. Iv'e
>processed well over 10k D800 images at this point with no
>issues at all.

What Perrone said. Same thing. Works perfect.

Stop using Nikon software for the transfer. Stop using anything else. Use Lightroom. Or just drag and drop, but I'd use Lightroom, it has LOTS Of features for renames, and other simultaneous maintenance, and it has never once failed for me.

I think you are passing through too many other programs.


Linwood

Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

RECONLEY

Marietta, US
572 posts

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#6. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 5

RECONLEY Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Jun 2012
Tue 11-Sep-12 08:01 PM

>
>Stop using Nikon software for the transfer. Stop using
>anything else. Use Lightroom. Or just drag and drop, but I'd
>use Lightroom, it has LOTS Of features for renames, and other
>simultaneous maintenance, and it has never once failed for
>me.
>
>I think you are passing through too many other programs.
>
>
>Linwood
>
>Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

I have been using Nikon ViewNX 2 (Latest Version) and its transfer program to filter shots before importing to LR4 since I obtained my D800 and I have yet to have any type of issue. I do not know what your problem is, but from my expierence it is not with ViewNX 2 or LR4.

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FineArtSnaps

Leesburg, US
401 posts

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#7. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 5

FineArtSnaps Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jun 2012
Tue 11-Sep-12 08:16 PM

Right, Linwood. But in my estimation Lightroom is one too many programs when you're moving stuff from the card to the computer. A straight copy from one folder to another has been around a long time -- drag and drop -- and the bugs are out of it. It's the "features" in Lightroom or any other program that scare me. It's easy enough to use the features when you import into Lightroom by dragging a folder on your computer and dropping it on Lightroom -- after you've secured a copy of the shoot on DVD.

I never delete stuff from my cameras until I have at least three copies -- one on one of my computer's internal drives, one on an external USB3 drive, and one on the DVD. Once that's done I can get to work on the stuff on my computer with ACR and Photoshop. Once I've culled the losers and done basic post-processing on the keepers, it's time to import the remainder into Lightroom and do the cataloging. Then I can delete the extra copy of the original shoot from the USB drive and save a copy of the culled shoot to it. I've made some horrible mistakes along the way, but I've never lost a picture, and I've been doing this since 2000, when the first 3.3 mp camera, the Casio QV3000EX came out. I also keep multiple copies of scans from my negatives, going back to 1953, because I don't want to have to go back and re-scan them.

Russ Lewis
www.russ-lewis.com
www.FineArtSnaps.com

RogersGlobal

US
2 posts

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#8. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 7

RogersGlobal Registered since 11th Sep 2012
Tue 11-Sep-12 10:35 PM

Fellas I definately understand the holes in my workflow. CD backups aren't an option though when I've got 45mb average files.

Future workflow aside, with a card that's already been reformatted. The task at hand is recovering the data. Not data loss prevention.

Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
5701 posts

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#9. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 7

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Tue 11-Sep-12 11:04 PM


>I never delete stuff from my cameras until I have at least
>three copies -- one on one of my computer's internal drives,
>one on an external USB3 drive, and one on the DVD. Once that's
>done I can get to work on the stuff on my computer with ACR
>and Photoshop. Once I've culled the losers and done basic
>post-processing on the keepers, it's time to import the
>remainder into Lightroom and do the cataloging.

I applaud someone who believes in having a plan B (and maybe C), I do as well. I have been using a 128G card in the D800 in backup mode, so I don't even take that card out of the camera as my ultimate backup as I ingest images. It's even more of a backup as I can't delete from it when chimping, so if I remember deleting a picture (on the camera) I did not really want to delete, it's still there.

But you don't use Lightroom for culling? Do you use Bridge?

>>when the first 3.3 mp camera, the Casio QV3000EX came out.

Oh my -- I have one in my closet. Still works as far as I know, and I still have the IBM Microdrive CF card (for those who didn't see them, the CF cards used to be a bit thicker and have spinning disks inside!)


Linwood

PS. To the OP, and recovery - my apologies, other than knowing of such programs, I have no suggestions, I have never used them.

Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

FineArtSnaps

Leesburg, US
401 posts

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#10. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 9

FineArtSnaps Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jun 2012
Tue 11-Sep-12 11:30 PM

Hi Linwood,

Actually I use a combination of Bridge and Photoshop in the culling process. I can eliminate the obvious clunkers in Bridge, but sometimes it takes a closer look in Photoshop to see whether or not, say, Viveza is going to let me salvage something worth saving. The process would be similar if I were using Lightroom for my initial cull. But I've used Photoshop since the beginning of time, and it just feels right to me. I use Lightroom almost exclusively for cataloging, but I always recommend Lightroom to anyone getting started in digital photography. It can do almost everything you might ever want to do as a photographer.

Yeah. I still have a QV3000EX with an IBM Microdrive in it. My wife used it for quite a while after I moved on to an Olympus E-20. It was a great camera in its day, and the Microdrive was a great idea by IBM.

P.S. To the OP: I know Sandisk Rescue Pro can do a great job of recovering trashed photographs if you can get them off the camera. From what you wrote I gather they're off and have a problem ("issue" and "problem" are not synonymous.) It's hard for me to believe Nikon software can be set to delete the pictures from the camera automatically after a transfer to the computer, but having seen and read about similar fiascoes with Nikon software over the years it's hard for me to believe I can't believe it.

P.S., Linwood, what are you flying there? I'm a long-ago retired fighter pilot.

Russ Lewis
www.russ-lewis.com
www.FineArtSnaps.com

Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
5701 posts

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#11. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 10

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Tue 11-Sep-12 11:35 PM


>P.S., Linwood, what are you flying there? I'm a long-ago
>retired fighter pilot.

Like photography, I just flew only for fun. That's a T-6 my wife bought a ride in for Christmas one year. Haven't flown for a while - used to be able to fly myself when travelling on business, but between insurance and lawyers can no longer, so was spending all the flying time staying current and just quit. Wasn't worth keeping a plane (had a turbo Arrow). Or more precisely on sabbatical - still a pilot of course, but no plane.


Linwood

Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

FineArtSnaps

Leesburg, US
401 posts

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#12. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 11

FineArtSnaps Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jun 2012
Tue 11-Sep-12 11:58 PM

I did primary in a T6. Always loved that airplane. Then flew F84s in Korea and was there when the war ended. But the airplane I loved most of all was the L-20, the Beaver. I used to fly it out of Great Falls all across the old highline radar sites on the northern part of the US and the southern part of Canada. You could land that airplane just about anywhere, and I sometimes did.

Russ Lewis
www.russ-lewis.com
www.FineArtSnaps.com

PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
2807 posts

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#13. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 10

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Wed 12-Sep-12 02:55 AM | edited Wed 12-Sep-12 02:55 AM by PerroneFord

>Hi Linwood,
>
> I
>use Lightroom almost exclusively for cataloging...

Then I submit you are entirely missing the point of LR.

LR is the HEART of my photography business. And it has that position because it lets me:

1. Import photos into the program
2. Add metadata upon import
3. Make a backup copy of the data onto another drive DURING the import process
4. Let's me do culling of photos faster than anything else I use
5. Lets me do metadata search
6. Lets me export to HDD, web, FTP, or publishing service from within the program.
7. Fully encompasses ACR, and has the basic tools of PS built in.
8. Allows me to build photo albums and submit to Blurb from within the program.

LR makes ACR redundant, makes PS redundant for 99% of my work, removes the need for bridge, and does a ton of other stuff as well.

Take some time and actually get to KNOW the program. It will streamline your workflow and eliminate many of these issues we keep see popping up.

BTW, as a sports photographer, I am often retuning home with 800-3000 photos a day. And I have to get my work to the athletic department same day. I don't have time to fool around in PS, Bridge, and everything else. One program, one workflow. Dead solid.

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

ericbowles

Atlanta, US
10537 posts

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#14. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 8

ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005
Wed 12-Sep-12 08:03 AM | edited Wed 12-Sep-12 08:05 AM by ericbowles

It is possible to recover deleted files from your CF or SD card. Sandisk has a utility program (Rescue Pro) that works nicely. It is usually included with their new cards.

It looks like Sandisk has sold their recovery program. Here is a link to the new vendor. There are PC and Mac versions with a free trial.

http://www.lc-tech.com/pc/photorecovery/

http://www.lc-tech.com/mac/photorecovery/

Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
My Gallery
Workshops - Smokies Oct 2012

Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

ericbowles

Atlanta, US
10537 posts

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#15. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 10

ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005
Wed 12-Sep-12 08:20 AM

The Nikon Transfer program embedded in View NX2 works fine for me (but I moved to Photo Mechanic). There is a check box in the Preferences section where you can choose to delete images after transfer. It's not something I would ever recommend, but can be useful for consumers.

Other programs have the same option of deleting images after transfer. Photo Mechanic has the same option. It's the same idea as using Cut and Paste vs. Copy and Paste.

With any software, updates need to be downloaded and installed.

Any kind of data transfer can create corrupt files. I've had Copy operations fail. I've had Save operations corrupt files. I've had Cut and Paste operations fail (leaving no file to repeat the operation). Backups are a critical part of photo life. And of course, the backup needs to be verified since a corrupt backup is worse than no backup at all.

Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
My Gallery
Workshops - Smokies Oct 2012

Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

FineArtSnaps

Leesburg, US
401 posts

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#16. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 15

FineArtSnaps Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jun 2012
Wed 12-Sep-12 01:09 PM

Hi Perrone,

I'm well aware of the things Lightroom can do. I've taught Lightroom, and probably will again this Winter. If I were doing sports or weddings or any other kind of commercial photography that required me to process reams of pics I'd be using Lightroom a lot more than I do, but I do fine art photography. I've been using Photoshop for decades and I'm comfortable with it. Also, there are a few things you can do in Photoshop that you can't do in Lightroom. I use content-aware fill from rarely to almost never, but when I need it, I need it. I do use Lightroom for Blurb exports, though that feature in Lightroom is in its infancy and needs more work. And Lightroom doesn't make ACR redundant; Lightroom incorporates ACR.

And Eric, The point I was trying to make is that the most important thing about moving photos from your camera to your computer is that the photos arrive on your computer uncorrupted. The most certain way to do that is to copy the photos from an external card reader directly to your computer. Yes, a copy operation can fail, but if it fails you know it failed. Once the pics are on your computer, even if you're too dumb to back them up, importing them into Lightroom isn't going to damage them. But if you use third party software -- Lightroom or anything else that does things like DNG conversions on the way in -- you're adding complexity that may lead to problems. If the software is stupid enough to delete the photos from your camera after the copy operation and something goes wrong, then you're in exactly the situation the OP's in. And yes, always verify a backup.

Russ Lewis
www.russ-lewis.com
www.FineArtSnaps.com

Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
5701 posts

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#17. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 13

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Wed 12-Sep-12 01:35 PM

>> I
>>use Lightroom almost exclusively for cataloging...
>
>Then I submit you are entirely missing the point of LR.
>
>LR is the HEART of my photography business. And it has that
>position because it lets me:
>
>1. Import photos into the program
>2. Add metadata upon import
>3. Make a backup copy of the data onto another drive DURING
>the import process
>4. Let's me do culling of photos faster than anything else I
>use

That last point is why I asked my question. I'm finding Lightroom increasingly SLOW to do culling. The time to having a decent sized preview available is getting worse with each new version (ok, better from 4.0 to 4.1, but I think worse in 4.2 though some say better).

I have a nicely fast computer (I7-950), large memory (6GB), fast disks with raid-1 (2 pairs, velociraptor); it's just darn slow. I take several hundred shots and want to get down to 50 or so, and it takes me forever, watching the "loading".

So I was curious. Bridge should be similar speed; same company, etc. I have been thinking that next time I would try some other tool. Maybe even ViewNX. Import to Lightroom, then delete with the other tool and sync the directory maybe.

I love lightroom and would not give it up for editing past the initial culling, but that initial cull is starting to take WAY too much time. The tool is perfect otherwise, but the performance stinks. Am thinking of doing a new computer, but frankly the performance improvement from the I7-950 to what's current now is not that great (like 50%), and it's thread/CPU limited from what I can see (i.e. doesn't use enough cores, so it is how fast one or two cores can run that is the governing factor).


Linwood

Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
2807 posts

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#18. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 17

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Wed 12-Sep-12 02:05 PM

>>1. Import photos into the program
>>2. Add metadata upon import
>>3. Make a backup copy of the data onto another drive
>DURING
>>the import process
>>4. Let's me do culling of photos faster than anything
>else I
>>use
>
>That last point is why I asked my question. I'm finding
>Lightroom increasingly SLOW to do culling. The time to having
>a decent sized preview available is getting worse with each
>new version (ok, better from 4.0 to 4.1, but I think worse in
>4.2 though some say better).

I am on 4.1 at the moment so can't speak to 4.2. But I find the speed more than adequate for me. Though I do have some pretty ripping hardware. If I am REALLY in a hurry, I'll use PhotoMechanic. But there is no provision for doing anything but a crop and export there in terms of image manipulation. It's the metadata king, but has no real editing facilities.

>I have a nicely fast computer (I7-950), large memory (6GB),
>fast disks with raid-1 (2 pairs, velociraptor); it's just darn
>slow. I take several hundred shots and want to get down to 50
>or so, and it takes me forever, watching the
>"loading".

You may have a problem there. I don't really see this on my machines. Are you building previews on the fly or at import time?


>So I was curious. Bridge should be similar speed; same
>company, etc. I have been thinking that next time I would try
>some other tool. Maybe even ViewNX. Import to Lightroom,
>then delete with the other tool and sync the directory maybe.

Interesting... if you try this, comment back. I never delete any of my RAW files so I wouldn't do this.


------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
2807 posts

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#19. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 16

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Wed 12-Sep-12 02:10 PM

>Hi Perrone,
>
>I'm well aware of the things Lightroom can do. I've taught
>Lightroom, and probably will again this Winter. If I were
>doing sports or weddings or any other kind of commercial
>photography that required me to process reams of pics I'd be
>using Lightroom a lot more than I do, but I do fine art
>photography. I've been using Photoshop for decades and I'm
>comfortable with it.

Makes sense.

>Also, there are a few things you can do
>in Photoshop that you can't do in Lightroom.

I'd say QUITE a few. but for tweaking an initial pass, I find LR quite good. I'd probably feel differently if I was doing fine art photography.

>And Lightroom doesn't make ACR redundant; Lightroom
>incorporates ACR.

Well, by redundant, I meant redundant as a separate product.

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
5701 posts

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#20. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 18

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Wed 12-Sep-12 02:10 PM


>>I have a nicely fast computer (I7-950), large memory
>(6GB),
>>fast disks with raid-1 (2 pairs, velociraptor); it's just
>darn
>>slow. I take several hundred shots and want to get down
>to 50
>>or so, and it takes me forever, watching the
>>"loading".
>
>You may have a problem there. I don't really see this on my
>machines. Are you building previews on the fly or at import
>time?

I've tried both. If I can get at least standard previews built it is not bad, but that process is very lengthy (I need to time it sometime; the D800 is hours for a few hundred, the D4 is not so bad). Trying to get 1:1 built (which is handy for doing comparisons between similar shots looking for which is best) is horribly long. I've been doing standard on import, then try to do 1:1 overnight or over dinner.

>>So I was curious. Bridge should be similar speed; same
>>company, etc. I have been thinking that next time I would
>try
>>some other tool. Maybe even ViewNX. Import to
>Lightroom,
>>then delete with the other tool and sync the directory
>maybe.
>
>Interesting... if you try this, comment back. I never delete
>any of my RAW files so I wouldn't do this.

When I cull I delete. Especially as megapixels go up, I just don't want to keep that. I routinely cull at least 10:1. I can't imagine why I need the 10% I keep for years, but I keep it; retaining the other 90% just seems pointless.

Linwood

Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

ericbowles

Atlanta, US
10537 posts

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#21. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 16

ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005
Wed 12-Sep-12 02:56 PM

Russ

I agree with you that images should move without corruption or not move at all. I have no idea why Nikon does not discontinue the old Nikon Transfer program completely and make a match with eligible camera models part of the transfer process.

I just did a quick test of 10 D800E images from this morning. I transferred the same 10 images using Photo Mechanic, View, and a Windows copy function. With View and PM I renamed during transfer. Nikon Transfer (the View NX2 version) added rights information I would add with keywording in PM.

Photo Mechanic 78.0 MB (81,847,009 bytes)
View NX2 Transfer 78.0 MB (81,830,795 bytes)
Windows 78.0 MB (81,858,210 bytes)

Now this was the data for the entire folder. I created a new folder for each transfer.

I'm not sure what the small difference in data is between the three approaches. It does appear that the change is metadata and folder data only. I don't think the actual image file is changed at all. There is no manipulation or processing of the NEF file in these three approaches. And I would still need to rename all the files transferred using Windows.

Eric Bowles
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Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
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#22. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 21

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Wed 12-Sep-12 03:19 PM


>I'm not sure what the small difference in data is between the
>three approaches. It does appear that the change is metadata
>and folder data only. I don't think the actual image file is
>changed at all. There is no manipulation or processing of the
>NEF file in these three approaches. And I would still need to
>rename all the files transferred using Windows.

That's... surprising.

I just took an NEF on the card, imported with lightroom, and then copied from the card.

All three are EXACTLY the same size down to the byte (the card as viewed while in the reader).

You aren't looking at "size on disk" are you? That includes NTFS cluster overhead.



Linwood

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ericbowles

Atlanta, US
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#23. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 22

ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005
Wed 12-Sep-12 03:41 PM

No - size on disk is different. And there are small differences in the metadata being added upon import. But what was surprising to me was the simple Windows copy approach was the largest.

Eric Bowles
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PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
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#24. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 20

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Wed 12-Sep-12 03:43 PM

>I've tried both. If I can get at least standard previews
>built it is not bad, but that process is very lengthy (I need
>to time it sometime; the D800 is hours for a few hundred, the
>D4 is not so bad). Trying to get 1:1 built (which is handy
>for doing comparisons between similar shots looking for which
>is best) is horribly long. I've been doing standard on
>import, then try to do 1:1 overnight or over dinner.

Good gracious man! I'll have to time mine tonight after my shoot. But I usually have my standard previews within an hour or so when I bring in 400-500 images.

>When I cull I delete. Especially as megapixels go up, I just
>don't want to keep that. I routinely cull at least 10:1. I
>can't imagine why I need the 10% I keep for years, but I keep
>it; retaining the other 90% just seems pointless.

Of course, this is all subjective, but given the nature of what I shoot (sometimes kids under 18, NCAA contract athletes, professional contract athletes, and models in various states of dress and undress), and the legal society being what it is today, I delete nothing. I want a full and complete set of files should I ever need to defend myself in court. The very LAST thing I want is for some model or some parent to claim I took untoward photos of them or their child and I have NO PROOF that I did not. Maintaining a complete set of files with no gaps is the best record I have against that kind of thing.

I should mention that legal discovery is part of my day job for the highest court in my state. I know the issues, and I've seen what can happen.

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Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
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#25. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 23

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Wed 12-Sep-12 03:50 PM

>No - size on disk is different. And there are small
>differences in the metadata being added upon import. But what
>was surprising to me was the simple Windows copy approach was
>the largest.

Size on disk is often different. in windows (at least Windows 7) there are two sizes shown if you right click and do properties -- size, and size on disk.

Size on disk involves overhead from NTFS file clusters (allocation units). You can frequently get different sizes there, especially if on different disks. I would not expect these programs to be changing the data inside the NEF -- I know ViewNX and CaptureNX do, but I am surprised if the Transfer does.

In fact I'd be a bit worried if transferring to disk was actually modifying them on the fly. I want my NEF to be virgin, just like it was off the card, and stay that way.

I suspect if you look "size" is the same? Or if not... well, you'll have to decide if you are concerned. By the way -- look on the card, compare to that?

Linwood

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bmunson

San Diego, US
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#26. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 0

bmunson Registered since 04th Apr 2007
Wed 12-Sep-12 06:43 PM | edited Wed 12-Sep-12 07:09 PM by bmunson

I have the same opinion as Perrone about LR. I use a PC and the one thing that I do that no one else has mentioned is once my images are copied from the card into lightroom , I mirror my 1TB photo drive to an external eSATA 1 Tb drive dock using ROBOCOPY, a DOS level batch file driven program that is part of Windows. I have it set up to only copy files that are new or changed and remove files from the destination drive that are not on the source drive. It is fast since it does not touch files that are the same and I never have had an issue, both drives read the same size, number of files, etc. It even backs up my LR files on that drive and the LR settings/presets that the batch file copies from my C: drive to my photo drive. I then swap out the backup drive with a second backup drive and do it again, then store one of the backup drives at my office, so it is offsite. Then I feel comfortable to reformat my CF card.

In the field or on a short trip, I backup to my 64Gb iPad and keep the data on the CF card until I get home and import into LR.

Barry

The pursuit of photography drives me to go places and see things I otherwise would only view through the eyes of others.



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epicdream

Cambridge, UK
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#27. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 0

epicdream Silver Member Charter Member
Wed 12-Sep-12 07:24 PM

Another Retina MacBook Pro user who imports using LR4 direct.

Never had any issues.


Neill

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Searider

Austin, US
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#28. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 27

Searider Silver Member Nikonian since 16th Nov 2004
Wed 12-Sep-12 10:50 PM

Interesting in that no one has mentioned Downloader Pro and IMatch. I have two mirrored solid state drives in my laptop. new pictures are downloaded there and becuase the drives are mirrored I now have two copies. Downloader pro verifies the copies before it will perform a delete(but this is probably the weakest part of the work flow). When it is convenient, I use IMatch to move the new pictures to my archive disks, this is another pair of mirrored drives in a NAS enclosure.

BTW, if you have not used solid state drives, you will be amazed at how much the speed things up from booting to file transfers.

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-- Arlo Guthrie --
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-Michael-

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PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
2807 posts

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#29. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 20

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Thu 13-Sep-12 01:48 AM

>I've tried both. If I can get at least standard previews
>built it is not bad, but that process is very lengthy (I need
>to time it sometime; the D800 is hours for a few hundred, the
>D4 is not so bad). Trying to get 1:1 built (which is handy
>for doing comparisons between similar shots looking for which
>is best) is horribly long. I've been doing standard on
>import, then try to do 1:1 overnight or over dinner.

I apologize, I shot the D7000 tonight instead of the D800. I imported 80 RAW images into LR from my shoot tonight. Total from beginning of import to finish of rendering standard previews was 1 minute 36.4 seconds. On the D800 we could extrapolate that to maybe 4 minute? Multiply by 10 to bring in 800 images and we're still at less than 45 minutes. So we should be in the ballpark of about 1000 images an hour.

-P

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Clint S

Chula Vista, US
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#30. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 26

Clint S Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Jan 2011
Thu 13-Sep-12 02:25 AM

I also use a card reader to copy my photos to my hard drive. Quickest safest way I have found to move the images.

Once the images are copied to my hard drive I use FastPictureViewer Professional to do the initial cull of my photos. I don't have to wait for previews to load, left click to see 100% view, right click to zoom into whatever size above 100% (preset) I want to see. I simply use the X key to target images for deletion and autoload the next image or use the arrow key to move to the next image if it is a keeper . Ctrl+X deletes all the non keepers. This has reduced my culling time to probably 15% of the time what I used to spend in Lightroom. It's a Windows only program though.

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Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
5701 posts

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#31. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 29

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Thu 13-Sep-12 06:52 PM


>I apologize, I shot the D7000 tonight instead of the D800. I
>imported 80 RAW images into LR from my shoot tonight. Total
>from beginning of import to finish of rendering standard
>previews was 1 minute 36.4 seconds. On the D800 we could
>extrapolate that to maybe 4 minute? Multiply by 10 to bring
>in 800 images and we're still at less than 45 minutes. So we
>should be in the ballpark of about 1000 images an hour.

You got my curiosity up, so I took 50 images on the D800, imported (compressed lossless, 14 bit, FX) in 89 seconds (it is not a fast card, I think 60mbs).

The 1:1 previews took 695 seconds, or about 14 seconds per image, or about 259 images per hour. I came back from a rodeo with 2700 images (ok, they were D4 images, but if they had been D800) that would be 10 hours to build previews).

Did you do 1:1 or standard (and if standard which size -- silly to call them "standard" when there are three sizes ).

I am quite curious if a new PC would make a lot of difference in this. I monitored the system utilization while these built, and was pleasantly surprised to see near 100% utilization of 4 cores, so they are making better multi-threading use than I thought. The disk surprisingly was mostly idle, except after each image there was a 1 second or so flurry but the measured transfer rates were in the < 10MBS so not a lot of disk activity at all. It's all about the processor, apparently.

Linwood

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PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
2807 posts

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#32. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 31

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Thu 13-Sep-12 08:45 PM | edited Thu 13-Sep-12 08:51 PM by PerroneFord

Ok, so I just put 89 frames through my D800 and am currently doing an import. It took 10 minutes and 37 seconds doing 1:1. About 500/hr for D800 images. The actual import took 11 seconds. And when I said standard before, I guess I was doing it at the largest size. So my machine is processing D800 previews in about half the time your machine is taking to do D4 images. I'd say that's a fairly significant difference in speed. And my processor is averaging about 75% utilized so disk speed is a bottleneck for me.

This is somewhat unusual for me as I do not build 1:1 previews on import. I need to get going on my edits so I can edit and submit.

-P


>You got my curiosity up, so I took 50 images on the D800,
>imported (compressed lossless, 14 bit, FX) in 89 seconds (it
>is not a fast card, I think 60mbs).
>
>The 1:1 previews took 695 seconds, or about 14 seconds per
>image, or about 259 images per hour. I came back from a rodeo
>with 2700 images (ok, they were D4 images, but if they had
>been D800) that would be 10 hours to build previews).
>
>Did you do 1:1 or standard (and if standard which size --
>silly to call them "standard" when there are three
>sizes ).
>
>I am quite curious if a new PC would make a lot of difference
>in this. I monitored the system utilization while these
>built, and was pleasantly surprised to see near 100%
>utilization of 4 cores, so they are making better
>multi-threading use than I thought. The disk surprisingly was
>mostly idle, except after each image there was a 1 second or
>so flurry but the measured transfer rates were in the <
>10MBS so not a lot of disk activity at all. It's all about
>the processor, apparently.
>
>Linwood
>
>Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

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Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
5701 posts

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#33. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 32

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Thu 13-Sep-12 08:56 PM

>Ok, so I just put 89 frames through my D800 and am currently
>doing an import. It took 10 minutes and 37 seconds doing 1:1.
>The actual import took 11 seconds. And when I said standard
>before, I guess I was doing it at the largest size. So my
>machine is processing D800 previews in about the time your
>machine is taking to do D4 images. I'd say that's a fairly
>significant difference in speed. And my processor is
>averaging about 75% utilized so disk speed is a bottleneck for
>me.

Mine were D800, so yours is twice my speed (if I did the math right, 7.2 seconds each vs. my 13.9 sec).

Looking at mine, it averaged about that, but it was about 12 seconds of 100% CPU, then 2 seconds of 40% with a flurry of disks. But mine did keep all the cores busy, so it had at least 4 threads running. Do you have 4 cores, or more?

I think some of lightroom's problems, however are that it does not keep all the cores busy. We have this on big database servers all the time -- the machine is 3% busy, but a query is still running slow. The problem is that it has only one or two thread, the 3% represents that many cores running flat out, but that's all it can do. Lightroom seems like that at time -- it's waiting, the disk is idle, but only shows 25% busy -- one core. Mostly during editing functions.

>This is somewhat unusual for me as I do not build 1:1 previews
>on import. I need to get going on my edits so I can edit and
>submit.

I need to try the test again with standard. I used to do 1:1, so that when I zoomed to check fine focus during culling I could see the detail and not wait. But the last few times I did standard and it was faster, though not sure how much faster. You just can't then hit zoom, or it says "loading..." again.

If you happen to do it overnight, 1:1 to me is the way to go.

But even at 7.2 seconds each, if you did 600, you are well over an hour. So I hope standard is faster.



Linwood

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PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
2807 posts

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#34. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 33

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Thu 13-Sep-12 09:24 PM

Standard is much MUCH faster.

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eliot3b4

Eliot, US
134 posts

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#35. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 12

eliot3b4 Platinum Member Nikonian since 23rd Nov 2008
Mon 17-Sep-12 08:02 AM

Great flying experience! I've only flown a Beaver once and it was a blast.

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Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
5701 posts

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#36. "RE: Has anyone solved their LR4 / Nikon D800 RAW NEF issues?" | In response to Reply # 33

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Wed 21-Nov-12 12:57 PM

>>Ok, so I just put 89 frames through my D800 and am
>currently
>>doing an import. It took 10 minutes and 37 seconds doing
>1:1.
>>The actual import took 11 seconds. And when I said
>standard
>>before, I guess I was doing it at the largest size. So
>my
>>machine is processing D800 previews in about the time
>your
>>machine is taking to do D4 images. I'd say that's a
>fairly
>>significant difference in speed. And my processor is
>>averaging about 75% utilized so disk speed is a bottleneck
>for
>>me.
>
>Mine were D800, so yours is twice my speed (if I did the math
>right, 7.2 seconds each vs. my 13.9 sec).

Well, it is definitely CPU sensitive. I decided to build a new computer, and in a fresh install, with I9-3770K processor (at normal clocking), I now get 5.1 seconds per image, so I am about 2.5 times as fast as I was. Still pretty darn slow, but much better.

Without over clocking that's about as fast of a CPU as you will get on a desktop at the moment.

FWIW it is not utilizing the whole CPU. I monitored disk and CPU during the run, and the disk barely registered (I am using SSD for the raw cache, the preview cache), but it still averaged about 60% busy, which I think is a threading issue -- they aren't throwing enough threads at it, by doing one image at a time -- it would be a LOT faster if they were building previews for more than one image in parallel. The problem with multi-core CPU's is that in a single thread a 4 core processor is effectively 1/4th as fast as if it were running four threads, it doesn't time share (this is not true of hyper-threading but that's another discussion, I turn hyper-threading off as it is more eye candy than helpful).

Linwood

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G