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Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?

davidhunternyc

New York, US
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davidhunternyc Registered since 15th Apr 2012
Mon 16-Apr-12 03:29 PM | edited Mon 16-Apr-12 03:30 PM by davidhunternyc

Hello Everyone!
This is my very first post on the Nikon forums. I am so excited to be here and to have my very first Nikon camera in my hands. My way to Nikon was roundabout. I am a minimalist and so the only digital cameras I have ever owned were the Leica X1 (which I sold for...) and the Fuji X100 (which I currently own). Recently, I was hired to photograph an indoor wedding. As much as I love my X100 it is woefully inadequate for this, low, ambient lighting wedding event. The X100 uses contrast detection auto-focus and too many of my test photos were out of focus. So here I am, convinced by others, to rent a Nikon D800. This is like going from a Honda Civic to a Ferrari (which weighs as much as a Sherman tank). I had a lesson today with the D800 and my tutor and I can not figure out a way to activate face recognition in the viewfinder. Yes, like others here, we have activated face recognition in the live-view LCD viewfinder but it does not automatically transfer to the electronic viewfinder. Please help. If I get corrupted by this camera, I may become a Nikon fanboy. So far, the jury is out. A part of me is outrageously impressed with this camera (and, doh!, the 900 speedlight) but then another part of me is contemptuous that you need the space shuttle to take brilliant photographs. Time will tell.
David

ajdooley

Waterloo, US
3330 posts

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#1. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 0

ajdooley Gold Member Nikonian since 25th May 2006
Mon 16-Apr-12 06:24 PM | edited Mon 16-Apr-12 06:28 PM by ajdooley

David -- WOW! you've got guts, heading out of a paying job like a wedding with a rented camera you have never used before! While modern DSLRs are computers with optical systems, they are the very antitheses of a minimalist approach to photography. I have seen a couple of reports about face recognition in the new Nikons, but most have focused on getting the face exposure correct, especially in backlit situations. The Nikon manual is available for download from NikonUSA, and once you have that hog downloaded you can search it for any guidance -- page 94, I understand. Study, practice, and good luck!

Alan
Waterloo, IL, USA
www.proimagingmidamerica.com

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walk43

Pennsylvania, US
719 posts

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#2. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 0

walk43 Registered since 07th Feb 2012
Mon 16-Apr-12 07:58 PM | edited Mon 16-Apr-12 08:24 PM by walk43

Welcome to the Forum.


I don't think the AF focus area is available in the VF or on the top panel. Once it's set..it's set...and you can check it in LV.

You are really going to shoot a wedding the first time you use the D800??

Dan
(Nikon D800,V2,Sony HX400V,Lumix ZS40)
"I don't read, I just look at pictures" - Andy Warhol

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davidhunternyc

New York, US
22 posts

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#3. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 2

davidhunternyc Registered since 15th Apr 2012
Tue 17-Apr-12 02:38 AM

Thanks for your replies, guys. Yes, I know, I am absolutely crazy! I am not only shooting my very first wedding but I'm doing it with a camera I have never used before; one which, to me, is more like the Space Shuttle than a camera. I am trembling in my boots but I also know I am a perfectionist and I have faith in myself. I still can't get the face recognition to work in the electronic viewfinder, though. According to several posts, I should able to do this. Page 94 in the manual doesn't seem to be too helpful. Any more help? Perhaps I should email Nikon and see what they have to say. Anyway, in a couple of weeks I should post some photos here of the wedding so you all can see the results.

ajdooley

Waterloo, US
3330 posts

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#4. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 3

ajdooley Gold Member Nikonian since 25th May 2006
Tue 17-Apr-12 09:06 AM

Dave -- CALL Nikon support: 1-800-645-6687. They keep long hours and are very flexible. They also are paid to know their cameras and if you ask a questyion the tech doesn't have an answer for, they look, ask and find out. They are as good as their gear.

BTW, what lenses are you going to deploy? If I had to pick one I'd go with the 24-70 f2.8; two: that one and the 70-200 f2.8

Alan
Waterloo, IL, USA
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davidhunternyc

New York, US
22 posts

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#5. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 4

davidhunternyc Registered since 15th Apr 2012
Tue 17-Apr-12 11:02 AM

Hi Alan,
Thank you for the Nikon telephone number. I will call them and see what they say and I will post the results here. When I rented the camera, I only rented one lens, the 70-200 f2.8. In retrospect, I wish I had gotten the 24-70 f2.8 instead. I do plan on using my Fuji X100 for some shots, however. Hmm, I may call Adorama and also go rent the 24-70. Thanks for your input.

Neilwww1

Sydney, AU
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#6. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 0

Neilwww1 Registered since 12th Mar 2012
Tue 17-Apr-12 08:49 AM

G'Day,

I don't have a D800 just yet so I don't know however I did find this which may assist???

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1021&message=41097753&changemode=1

Cheers
Neil

ctadin

St Louis, US
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#7. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 6

ctadin Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2008
Tue 17-Apr-12 02:02 PM

David,
Welcome to Nikonians and best of luck with shooting your first wedding. I also second you renting the Nikon 24-70mm lens.
Will you have another flash besides the SB-900? If not, I would also recommend you rent a 2nd flash as well.

Cheryl

JediLight

UK
1 posts

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#8. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 7

JediLight Registered since 17th Apr 2012
Tue 17-Apr-12 03:17 PM

I read this somewhere else and it appears to work. Set the camera to AF-C and then set the focus point to Auto, you should then find that it automatically prioritises locking on to a face in autofocus if it can find one. In my (small experience) it gets very close to spot on and then you can move the camera a little to pick the eye and it tends to not reselect the point for you hence getting you the shot you want.

Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
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#9. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 8

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Tue 17-Apr-12 09:31 PM

I was hesitant to reply because while I have a D800 I'm on the road without it and so can't experiment, but essentially what JedLight said.

and I will tell you i didn't think it worked well at all. I tried it in an office and it focused on cubicals, computer monitors -- lots of stuff other than people. Occasionally people's faces.

I don't care -- I never use "auto", but I was a bit disappointed. I really expected to point into an area with three people looking at me, and have it pick 3 focus points and highlight them. Nope.

I kept wondering if there was some other setting to turn it on, but never found it.

Ps. Live View face recognition, perversely, seemed to work better.

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davidhunternyc

New York, US
22 posts

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#10. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 9

davidhunternyc Registered since 15th Apr 2012
Wed 18-Apr-12 12:34 PM

Thank you all for your advice and support. Unfortunately, today I am returning the D800 to Adorama and I will not be using it to photograph my first wedding. After extensive discussions with Nikon, apparently the D800 is not yet supported by Macs. I can not import the D800 RAW files into ViewNX2 or into Aperture 3. Also, the D800 RAW files can not be edited in Photoshop. I understand that this is a new camera but I am surprised that Nikon would release this camera without the proper software to be recognized by Apple and Adobe. I will be renting a D700 for the wedding. Thanks to your advice, I may get another lens while I am at it. In addition to the 70mm - 200mm 2.4 VRll, I was thinking of renting the 85mm 1.4G.

yellowz

Nanzdietschweiler, DE
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#11. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 10

yellowz Registered since 05th Sep 2009
Wed 18-Apr-12 05:19 PM

I have a D800 and a mac. They work fine together. I use LR4 for most stuff but apparently there is a camera raw update that will allow it to work with CS5.

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Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
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#12. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 10

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Wed 18-Apr-12 10:53 PM

> I can not import the D800 RAW files into
>ViewNX2 or into Aperture 3. Also, the D800 RAW files can not
>be edited in Photoshop. I understand that this is a new camera
>but I am surprised that Nikon would release this camera
>without the proper software to be recognized by Apple and
>Adobe.

Given your circumstances returning it is good, but none of this is true. Lightroom, ViewNX and Photoshop all have D800 support, I've used all three with my D800. I don't use Apeture but I understand they released support in late March.

Not that it's Nikon's issue if Adobe or Apple are slow. But they weren't.


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davidhunternyc

New York, US
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#13. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 12

davidhunternyc Registered since 15th Apr 2012
Thu 19-Apr-12 01:40 AM

You guys, this is my first thread on this forum and I am so grateful for all of your help. Thank you for sharing with me that your D800's work fine on your Mac's and in Photoshop CS5. I wonder if the issue is with this particular D800 that I'm renting. Perhaps it was one of the first cameras and it has not received the latest firmware updates. Anyway, today, as I was about to leave my apartment and return the D800 back to Adorama, the gentleman who rented me this camera called me. This was very nice of him to call me as it was his day off of work. (On the other hand, I am spending $850 to rent this camera for 2 weeks.) He trouble shooted quite a bit with me and we were finally able to get Nikon's ViewNX 2 to import the camera RAW files (the SD card was not formatted properly), however, we could not get these files to open up in Aperture or Photoshop CS5. This gentleman convinced me that Lightroom 4 does support the D800 and that I should get it, not just because LR4 supports the D800 but from there, the photos will open up in Photoshop CS5 and that LR4 is an amazing tool regardless of this issue. As it stands now, I bought LR4 and I am about to install it... Stay tuned. Same Bat Time. Same Bat Channel.

agitater

Toronto, CA
4527 posts

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#14. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 0

agitater Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007
Thu 19-Apr-12 02:04 AM


>like others here, we have activated face recognition in the
>live-view LCD viewfinder but it does not automatically
>transfer to the electronic viewfinder. Please help.

It's not a point & shoot with an electronic or hybrid viewfinder like the X100. The D800 has an optical viewfinder, so you're not going to be able to turn on face recognition rectangles anywhere but the rear LCD.

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davidhunternyc

New York, US
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#15. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 14

davidhunternyc Registered since 15th Apr 2012
Thu 19-Apr-12 02:16 AM

>
>>like others here, we have activated face recognition in
>the
>>live-view LCD viewfinder but it does not automatically
>>transfer to the electronic viewfinder. Please help.
>
>It's not a point & shoot with an electronic or hybrid
>viewfinder like the X100. The D800 has an optical viewfinder,
>so you're not going to be able to turn on face recognition
>rectangles anywhere but the rear LCD.

Ahh, this is interesting. So say you turn on face recognition in Liveview (the rear LCD). When face recognition is activated, even though you can't see the optical viewfinder tracking faces, are you saying that face recognition is still functioning?

yellowz

Nanzdietschweiler, DE
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#16. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 15

yellowz Registered since 05th Sep 2009
Thu 19-Apr-12 04:05 AM

No, he meant that "face recognition" only works with live view. IMO the AF is so fast and so good with this camera that you can set single point in the center of the frame, focus and recompose and get the shot so quickly that you don't need the face recognition. This is my opinion only, but I've been taking pictures of people like that since I had my film N60. Try it out, either with the AF-ON button, or just with the half-press of the shutter and then recompose. You might be surprised how quick/effective this can be. Plus, the AF is more accurate in the center of the frame so you'll have better results this way most of the time anyways (as long as you're not using a wide angle).

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agitater

Toronto, CA
4527 posts

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#17. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 15

agitater Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007
Thu 19-Apr-12 09:16 AM

Yellowz is not quite accurate. According to Nikon marketing material and the D800 manual (which I suggest you read), Nikon's Face detection is also working when you use the optical viewfinder.

The camera AF has to be set to AF-C and full auto for face detection to work. You really need to have the D800 manual handy while checking this out.

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agitater

Toronto, CA
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#18. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 17

agitater Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007
Thu 19-Apr-12 09:21 AM

. . . but you still won't see little moving face detection squares while using the optical viewfinder. It's not a hybrid like the Fujifilm X-100 and X-Pro1 viewfinders, so an EVF-style digital overlay is not possible.

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Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
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#19. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 18

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Fri 20-Apr-12 12:34 AM

>. . . but you still won't see little moving face detection
>squares while using the optical viewfinder. It's not a hybrid
>like the Fujifilm X-100 and X-Pro1 viewfinders, so an
>EVF-style digital overlay is not possible.

But the full auto DOES show you the focus points selected, and I did expect it to select faces moreso than non-faces.

Are you saying it is finding and acting (e.g. for exposure) on the face but that the black rectangles that go around something else are not relevant?


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agitater

Toronto, CA
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#20. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 19

agitater Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007
Fri 20-Apr-12 01:42 AM

>Are you saying it is finding and acting (e.g. for exposure) on
>the face but that the black rectangles that go around
>something else are not relevant?

Read page 49 of the D800 user manual.

You' may becconfusing Auto AF point selection with face detection. When face detection is activated for Live View, face detection is obvious and the camera prioritizes AF point selection solely on detectable faces. By comparison, when looking through the camera's optical viewfinder you're seeing Auto AF point selection based on the nearest subject but with bias toward the nearest face that the camera can detect.

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davidhunternyc

New York, US
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#21. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 20

davidhunternyc Registered since 15th Apr 2012
Fri 20-Apr-12 02:46 AM

May I add my very amateurish opinion? If Nikon states that the D800 has face recognition technology, wouldn't you expect it to, at least, match and even exceed the face recognition technology of point-and-shoot cameras? Unfortunately, the D800 does not (perhaps we have all seen and been anticipating face recognition software akin to the Canon Wonder Camera).If the software of the D800 were clear and straight forward and if face recognition worked in all modes, there would not be so much confusion here. I believe Nikon should've ironed out the details regarding their face recognition software before the D800 was released.

klrbee25

Naples, US
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#22. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 21

klrbee25 Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2006
Fri 20-Apr-12 09:56 AM | edited Fri 20-Apr-12 09:58 AM by klrbee25

I'd suggest you just forget the face recognition and focus on figuring out the camera if you plan to use it at your first wedding shoot. I'd venture to guess that no experienced shooter who has purchased a D800 made the purchase based on face-recognition...I'd even guess most experienced shooters won't even use it. I'll never break away from the AF-ON and continuous focus combination. It's a breeze to focus on a face and then recompose.

Your wedding shoot will have many challenging exposure conditions. Once you get the hang of run-of-the-mill focusing, I'd suggest you experiment with the exposure control modes in various conditions to know how the camera behaves.


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agitater

Toronto, CA
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#23. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 21

agitater Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007
Fri 20-Apr-12 09:56 AM

You raise a very good point. It's difficult for users to intuitively understand a function if the user interface is inconsistent when switched to a different mode, i.e., between Live View and viewfinder. Add to that a user manual with only a very brief reference to face detection, and questions arise.

I think Nilon's face detection works extremely well, but until Nikon starts using a hybrid viewfinder (like the one developed so well by Fujifilm) or a really lovely EVF (like the one Sony developed for the NEX7), there won't be a way for the rear LCD face detection display to appear in its viewfinders.

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agitater

Toronto, CA
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#24. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 21

agitater Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007
Fri 20-Apr-12 12:51 PM

>May I add my very amateurish opinion? If Nikon states that
>the D800 has face recognition technology, wouldn't you expect
>it to, at least, match and even exceed the face recognition
>technology of point-and-shoot cameras?

Comparing point & shoot, LCD-only face detection to the vastly more powerful face detection processing in a D800 and the vastly better technical image quality that can be obtained from a D800 is a waste of time. If you have some expectation that a D800 will work just like a point & shoot, you're going to be disappointed. There is no electronic viewfinder in a D800, so the viewfinder display of the face detection points that can be seen on the D800's rear LCD when it's in LiveView mode cannot be duplicated. It's a simple and obvious limitation of optical viewfinders.

As other contributors to your thread have suggested, for a wedding shoot you might want to re-think the use of a camera with which you're not yet thoroughly familiar. Once the wedding is over, and each moment during the wedding is over, there are no do-overs. For the bride & groom, each wedding moment is a once-in-a-liftime moment for the couple. If you blow it because you're using a camera with which you're unfamiliar, bad things can happen.

>Unfortunately, the D800
>does not (perhaps we have all seen and been anticipating face
>recognition software akin to the Canon Wonder Camera).If the
>software of the D800 were clear and straight forward and if
>face recognition worked in all modes, there would not be so
>much confusion here. I believe Nikon should've ironed out the
>details regarding their face recognition software before the
>D800 was released.

Wow. For some reason my troll radar just went off. Must do a systems check. Wouldn't want to make unfounded accusations. Apologies of course.

Just in case you're serious about all this, and again as another contributor has suggested, you really shouldn't consider relying on face detection for a wedding shoot.

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DVDMike

Metro Atlanta, US
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#25. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 21

DVDMike Registered since 25th Mar 2003
Sat 21-Apr-12 12:47 PM


As a wedding photographer, I have to ask if your clients understand the risk that they are taking with using you and your situation. If you cannot even focus the camera properly and you having to think about how to operate the camera that you are using during the wedding day, you are not doing your clients a good service. I would suggest that you use the camera that you know how to use properly before trying to learn a new camera on the job.

I was using a D2X and D300 as my primary wedding cameras when I shot my first wedding with a D3 some years back. All of these cameras are Nikon and the D300's focusing is very similar to that of the D3. And yet the first time I used the D3, I told my clients that I was using a new camera that I had not yet used extensively and that there was some risk in me using it. I gave them a significant discount so that I could shoot the wedding using minimal flash and mostly natural light, etc. And they understood the risks that this presented. In return, I gave them a significant discount. Out of an abundance of caution, I had done all of this after having shot hundreds of weddings, almost all of which with Nikon gear. I could not imagine switching to a new Canon camera system and camera the day before a wedding and think that I could do my best for my clients.

A wedding is a once in a lifetime event for the bride and groom and family. You only have one chance to get it right. Whenever a someone goes out and buys the the latest gear and offers to shoot a wedding and it does not turn out well, it puts a black eye on our industry and cheapens our value. My only suggestion here is if you are an experienced photographer, please shoot with the equipment that you know how to use properly or let your clients know what they are getting into.

Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
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#26. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 25

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Sat 21-Apr-12 12:51 PM

> I gave them a significant discount so that I could
>shoot the wedding using minimal flash and mostly natural
>light, etc. And they understood the risks that this
>presented. In return, I gave them a significant discount.

So (and not to dilute your point which is excellent) but don't leave us hanging.... how did it come out, the first one?


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DVDMike

Metro Atlanta, US
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#27. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 26

DVDMike Registered since 25th Mar 2003
Sat 21-Apr-12 01:23 PM | edited Sat 21-Apr-12 01:26 PM by DVDMike

That wedding came out fine, but not outstanding. There were more images than usual that I was not pleased with and thus I better learned the limits of the D3 and subsequent weddings were much better. This particular client could not have afforded my regular price and when they approached me (about 2 weeks prior to their wedding) with an offer, I told them that I could not do it. I think that the next day I got notice that my D3 was shipping and that is when I called the client back and said that I had a proposal for them. And they accepted knowing what I was doing.

Ordinarily, I would try to break in a new camera at an engagement shoot or some other type of portrait shoot that could be redone if things went bad. But in this case, it seamed a perfect opportunity to try out the D3 without too too much risk as I would double shoot some important shots with the D300.

Double shooting might be a viable option for you (OP) too. Even more difficult than trying to reproduce the bride groom shots are the family or "historical" shots where you have out of town and or elderly family. If you had to, you could rent a tux of the groom and clean the bride's dress and retake portraits at a later date. But you cannot get all of the out of town family back at once to re-shoot if something goes wrong. (On many occasions, I have had relatives of the bride or groom pass not long after the wedding and as it turned out I had taken the last family shot of them.) I usually double shoot the historical shots anyway with an assistant shooting slightly off center or crouched down in front of me. So you could shoot these shots with both of your cameras too, just in case there is a blunder with using the D800.

Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
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#28. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 20

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Fri 20-Apr-12 10:02 AM

>Read page 49 of the D800 user manual.
>
>You' may becconfusing Auto AF point selection with face
>detection. When face detection is activated for Live View,
>face detection is obvious and the camera prioritizes AF point
>selection solely on detectable faces. By comparison, when
>looking through the camera's optical viewfinder you're seeing
>Auto AF point selection based on the nearest subject but with
>bias toward the nearest face that the camera can detect.

Yeah, 49 is live view, 94 is viewfinder. What it says (for those without the manual handy) is:

>Auto-area AF: The camera automatically
>detects the subject and selects the focus
>point; if a face is detected, the camera will
>give priority to the portrait subject. The
>active focus points are highlighted briefly
>after the camera focuses

This leads me to think that at least one face should be selected and highlighted in favor of other objects, and that's what I found a bit disappointing. Imagine an office cube environment. Three people were standing around a cube. In Auto AF I took a bunch of shots, and noticed that at least half the time it selected some other object than a face -- part of the cube, an object in the cube, someone's elbow, etc.

To me it doens't matter, since somewhere around the FE days I have done manual focus point selection and am happy. But either I am still confused by what to expect, or a bit disappointed in the non-live-view action.

PS. I should note that the EXPOSURE settings on this camera from matrix are MUCH better than my D300, which was a pleasant surprise. So it may be doing something underneath the covers, especially with backlit subjects and maybe by detecting and using faces, that you just can't see.



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agitater

Toronto, CA
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#29. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 28

agitater Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007
Fri 20-Apr-12 11:01 AM


>This leads me to think that at least one face should be
>selected and highlighted in favor of other objects, and that's
>what I found a bit disappointing. Imagine an office cube
>environment. Three people were standing around a cube. In
>Auto AF I took a bunch of shots, and noticed that at least
>half the time it selected some other object than a face --
>part of the cube, an object in the cube, someone's elbow,

I think you're, in part, looking for functionality which doesn't exist. Face detection in any mode is designed to prioritize AF point selection for faces (starting with the nearest detectable one). But that doesn't always mean the presence of faces in an LCD or viewfinder composition always provide focus targets that the AF and face detection systems can actually find and lock in.

This thread is becoming a bit difficult without some sample photos from you. Please post a shot that seemed to give you or the camera some trouble.

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Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
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#30. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 29

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Fri 20-Apr-12 11:39 AM

>This thread is becoming a bit difficult without some sample
>photos from you. Please post a shot that seemed to give you or
>the camera some trouble.

I am travelling sans camera but will later. However I would hestitate to say it gave me trouble so much as it did not do what I expected. And I have no idea whether the focus point display (like on ViewNX) will show what the viewfinder did. Now trying to figure out how to get a picture of the viewfinder image is an interesting adventure in angles and focus.

Again (since there are so many "the camera is broken" threads), I do not find this a bad thing, the focus works better than any camera I had before, and does everything I need. This is more for me an exercise in curiousity than a practical matter.

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Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
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#31. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 0

Ferguson Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for the generous sharing of his high level expertise in the spirit of Nikonians Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004
Sat 21-Apr-12 12:15 PM | edited Sat 21-Apr-12 12:16 PM by Ferguson

To the discussion earlier, here is an example. It is a contrived example, and I realize that using a TV as a source of a face may not be the best example.

I also am NOT certain that the focus points shown in the viewfinder are supposed to represent faces that the face recognition software identifies. I think it does, from the manual description, but not sure. But this makes clear it is not using it to set the focus.

And finally I am not at all sure that it is valid to have foreground objects in view. Maybe face recognition is supposed to always and only identify faces in foreground. Is it?

But this is what I've seen in real life as well -- the focus point selected favors heavily anything in the foreground. Even body parts on the person with the face (clearly not in this case), such as an elbow (picture someone with arms on top of an office cube, facing left, and instead of the face being the focus point it picks the elbow -- I didn't save those from a few weeks ago testing at my office).

Is this what you expect?

Click on image to view larger version


PS. This is a partial crop -- the face was wholely in the focus area, dead certain in the original frame is approximately the the girl's left elbow.

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davidhunternyc

New York, US
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#32. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 31

davidhunternyc Registered since 15th Apr 2012
Sat 21-Apr-12 12:59 PM

This is an interesting discussion indeed. Thank you all for your help. To the above person who was thinking that I might be a "troll". No I am not. Excuse me for my naive questions. I am a total newbie to Nikon professional cameras and I don't know what to expect. As I said before, I am coming from a Leica X1 and Fuji X100, so my learning curve is steep. I have already learned a lot. I was just assuming that the face recognition on the D800 would've been more straight forward than it is. Of course, for the wedding, regular auto-focus will be just fine, superlative even, compared to what I was using before. I was just hoping that, in the viewfinder, there was a way I can be sure that the focus would be exactly on the faces I need the focus to be. April 28th is the wedding and I will post some photos here that I've shot with the D800.

davidhunternyc

New York, US
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#33. " Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 0

davidhunternyc Registered since 15th Apr 2012
Mon 07-May-12 04:18 AM | edited Mon 07-May-12 04:32 AM by davidhunternyc

O.K. everyone. My very first wedding is over and here are a few of the photos that I took using the D800. Yes, some of you thought I was crazy shooting my first wedding with a camera that I've never used before (my first DSLR, no less) but when the opportunity presented itself, I couldn't say, "no". These photos should should dispel those people here that thought I was a troll. When all is said and done, moving from the Fuji X100 to the D800 was like moving from a Honda Civic to a Ferrari F12 Berlinetta (except the camera is far uglier). I am still perplexed about the face recognition software in the D800 and I'm looking forward to reading about it in the D800 user guide books about to be published. Since the D800 was a rental, I no longer have it but I have my heart set on purchasing the D800E. Having those 36mp at my finger tips made editing and cropping a breeze. Yes, such large files take longer to process on my 13" MacBook Pro but it isn't too bad. So here they are, photos from my first wedding...

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YvesMarie

FR
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#34. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 33

YvesMarie Registered since 29th Jun 2012
Fri 29-Jun-12 06:04 PM

Thank you so much for sharing your audacity and your success.
I ll be tomorrow in Switzerland for my first wedding coverage...as an amateur. I will pack the D700 as a backup though. I was discouraged by the shop manager himself to buy ! Very honest on his part.
But your text and photos are providential.
Thank you again

gorji

Jamesville, US
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#35. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 0

gorji Registered since 07th Jan 2007
Fri 29-Jun-12 08:00 PM | edited Fri 29-Jun-12 08:05 PM by gorji

OMG: 1st Nikon camera and you picked a D800 and then a wedding?? There is so much to learn, it does not happen overnight or even in a few days. Good Luck.


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YvesMarie

FR
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#36. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 33

YvesMarie Registered since 29th Jun 2012
Sat 07-Jul-12 02:04 PM

That's it - Wedding done the 30th of June

- Crossed borders to Belgium to be abled to buy one D800. Just had the evening and train travel to study and practice.
- Sure some of the... 750 shots were missed for inexperience.
That still means the hardest task is ...shots selection.
- But many would have been "not as good" with the d700 ( Which I used a little anyway.
- I would'nt change my decision could I turn the clock back.
- Fiancées were warned.
- It was a free service but I would do the same would it have been professional.

Yves-Marie Monfort



davidhunternyc

New York, US
22 posts

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#37. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 35

davidhunternyc Registered since 15th Apr 2012
Sat 07-Jul-12 02:55 PM | edited Sat 07-Jul-12 02:57 PM by davidhunternyc

It looks like there are two of us now that did the same thing! Using the D800 for our first time while shooting a wedding for our first time. Congrats Yves-Marie. I still don't get the Face Recognition software. It should be as simple to use as a toaster oven. It should work through the EVF too.

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RRRoger

Monterey Bay, US
3373 posts

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#38. "RE: Nikon D800 - Face Recognition in Viewfinder Help?" | In response to Reply # 37

RRRoger Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his long history of demonstrated excellence and helping other members with equipment, technique and DSLR video in the true Nikonians spirit. Charter Member
Wed 11-Jul-12 11:54 AM

I would have recommended renting a D4, D3, or D700 instead.
The D800 (36MP etc.) is more capable but so much harder to learn and use.
I've shot over a million photos with the D1-4
and nearly that with other Nikons and it still took me a month to dial in my D800.

I hope you shot RAW + Large Fine JPEG.
The pictures looked a little blown out to me and maybe could be recovered (darkened) with software.
I would have reviewed and adjusted the EV while shooting,
but there are lots of other setting that would effect this.

My experience with face recognition is that the focus point jumps all over the place.
I use AF-C single point (8mm) spot focus.

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