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How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in

KingCedric

Princeton, US
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KingCedric Registered since 29th Dec 2012
Sun 10-Feb-13 01:29 PM

First, I'm an old-timer when we used this thing call film! My old FTn was simple: focus, turn on meter, match needle, use judgment to adjust and press the button! With Kodachrome 10, later 25!

Anyway, I've had my new D800E about a month. Had delivered new 24-70mm AF-S f/2.8G ED Nikkor about 2 weeks ago. In 24 mm position, exposures are perfect! As I zoom up to 70 mm, images are wildly overexposed, up to 5 stops although the EV stays constant!

I've set up shooting profiles and Custom profiles, nothing radical and largely following advice from Darrell Young's "Mastering..."

Is there a problem with the camera? The lens? My profiles? My inexperience with this camera? I've been using a D80 and D200 for many years, so digital is not new. But this computer with interchangeable lenses is definitely not my father's Argus C3!

I plan to run some tests with the other lenses I have (1 FX and 2 DX lenses) today, so we'll see how that goes.

Thank you!

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PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
2807 posts

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#1. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 0

PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011
Sun 10-Feb-13 01:12 PM

You've offered us no information on your settings, subject, conditions of the shoot, or anything else. You've not given us any sample images for us to assess the metadata. It is therefore essentially impossible to offer any meaningful help or advice.

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Leonard62

Pa, US
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#2. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 0

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Sun 10-Feb-13 02:09 PM | edited Sun 10-Feb-13 02:11 PM by Leonard62

Assuming everything is working properly, are you by chance using Spot metering?

Or is bracketing turned on?

As Perrone says we need more info.

Len

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KingCedric

Princeton, US
9 posts

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#3. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 2

KingCedric Registered since 29th Dec 2012
Sun 10-Feb-13 02:20 PM

I tried spot, matrix and center-weighted. I'll be running more examples with my one other FX lens, the 60mm Micro, then the two DX zooms, to see if they have the same problem. I'll then post images to illustrate and provide EXIF data.

Thanks! (I was hoping it was a simple setting that newbies accidentally set and gave mirth to the veterans. I guess not.);)

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Leonard62

Pa, US
4419 posts

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#4. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 3

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Sun 10-Feb-13 03:15 PM

Make sure the lens is stopping down when set to the 70mm position. I would set the camera on a tripod or any surface where you can look into the lens during a long exposure and see if it stops down to something like f11 or f16. Or if it stays open to f2.8 when it shouldn't.

Len

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jamesvoortman

Durban, ZA
1468 posts

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#5. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 0

jamesvoortman Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Sep 2004
Mon 11-Feb-13 03:59 PM

I would start with a factory reset on at least one of the meory banks. the manual will tell you how.

then set mode to P, A or S...not M
then set metering to matrix
ensure bracketing, exposure lock etc all turned off.

Take a few shots at different zoom settings. If the exposure still varies then there could be an issue with the new lens. Mounting other lenses, followed by some test shots, will tell you if it is a lens or camera problem.

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Dadorian

Johannesburg, ZA
83 posts

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#6. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 0

Dadorian Gold Member Nikonian since 17th Jul 2011
Tue 14-May-13 12:15 PM

I am sure the Guys are right in asking for more info, all I can add to the conversation is that when I moved up to D800 from my D7000 I really struggled and having tried the blame game, i.e. blame the camera blame the lenses blame the weather and or anything else for that matter the real problem was that I did not appreciate the sensitivity that comes with the advanced sensor this camera has. Once that penny dropped I started to take a great deal more care when taking my shots, using a mono pod or tripod more often increasing shutter speed etc etc and paying attention to what the experienced forum members had to say generally. I have also had to pay more attention to my processing workflow (Found NX2 to be great for this camera probably because of ease of use and the software speaks Nikon). My images are getting better by the day and I love my D800 but it has to be said this is not the easiest camera to use by any means. Good luck

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km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
3559 posts

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#7. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 6

km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009
Tue 14-May-13 04:35 PM

The symptoms really sounded like a problem with the aperture index arm not stopping down at the longer focal lengths so it would have been interesting to see what the outcome was.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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GiantTristan

Stamford, US
2676 posts

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#8. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 0

GiantTristan Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2006
Tue 14-May-13 04:55 PM

Two simple questions:

1.Does the 24-70/2.8 work properly on your D200?

2.Using another of your zoom lenses on your D800e, do you have the same problem as with the 24-70?

Tristan

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KingCedric

Princeton, US
9 posts

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#9. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 8

KingCedric Registered since 29th Dec 2012
Tue 14-May-13 10:51 PM | edited Tue 14-May-13 10:54 PM by KingCedric

1. Yes, it works fine on the D200.
2. No, but both are DX lenses (18-135 and 18-200).

To further expand, I shot identical pictures in ~5mm increments. Everything from 24mm to 58mm was perfect. 62mm suddenly was wildly overexposed on up to 70mm. It was not a gradual change.

Incidentally, Nikon has now had the lens twice and the camera once at Melville. I just received camera and lens back today. Preliminary test shots indicate problem was NOT fixed. Unbelievable!

Nikon should be ashamed of themselves.

Next is a trip to Melville. I guess $5000 just doesn't buy the camera/lens it used to. I am disgusted.

Because it is most apparent in high contrast situations (bright sunlight), I'll duplicate the original conditions and see if there is any change. I doubt it.

BTW, all profiles were reset to defaults, so there is nothing I did to make this happen.

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stappy

Alexandria, US
225 posts

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#10. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 9

stappy Gold Member Nikonian since 06th Aug 2009
Tue 14-May-13 11:07 PM

Questions come to mind after reading your description.

What did the invoice from Nikon say was done during the repair?

When the image goes from perfect @58mm to overexposed @62mm, does the shutter/aperture change? Are you using spot metering?

To reiterate previous responses, posting these images with EXIF data would allow us to see all the variables in play and better diagnose what is going.


Brian


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GiantTristan

Stamford, US
2676 posts

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#11. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 9

GiantTristan Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2006
Wed 15-May-13 12:32 AM | edited Wed 15-May-13 12:47 AM by GiantTristan

If the lens works ok with the D200, it must be either the camera or the interface camera/lens that is at fault. How about renting another 24-70 lens and checking whether the problem persists. If yes, this definitely confirms that the camera does not perform properly. You might also want to clean the electrical contacts of both lens and camera.

Since you mention "bright sun light" - does this also happen, if you close down the aperture to f/8 or even f/11?

Tristan

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isail2

La Paz, MX
63 posts

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#12. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 11

isail2 Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Aug 2004
Wed 15-May-13 03:48 AM

Are you absolutely sure that you are not bracketing, and have you reset the camera to factory specs? I too would like to see some examples
Tom Ireton

Tireton

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KingCedric

Princeton, US
9 posts

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#13. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 12

KingCedric Registered since 29th Dec 2012
Wed 15-May-13 06:41 AM

How can I be bracketing when I press the button once and I only get one image? No, not bracketing in any of the profiles. And yes, I have reset all the profiles back to defaults.

As I said before, all the images from 24mm to about 58 mm are perfect. Then at 62 mm up to 70 mm, the pictures are wildly overexposed. How could that be bracketing or user profiles? Doesn't matter whether I'm spot metering, matrix or center-weighted.

I'll have to resize all the images to post. After resizing them once, I posted them to Nikon support using their software to maintain metadata. Then they requested I box both camera and lens and send to Melville, which I did. But it looks like no one at Nikon hooked up my lens to my camera and took any pictures. They just ran it through their little tests and declared it met factory specs.

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af4nc

Yardley, US
3194 posts

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#14. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 0

af4nc Registered since 07th Jul 2007
Wed 15-May-13 09:00 AM

I've had that problem too, then I see I've left bracketing on!

Tom MILLS
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blw

Richmond, US
28581 posts

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#15. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 13

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004
Wed 15-May-13 09:19 AM

> How can I be bracketing when I press the button once and I only get one image?

Very easily, since that's actually how bracketing works. It does NOT automatically shoot all shots in a bracket. The exception is if you've set Cl or Ch mode AND press the shutter down AND HOLD IT for the ENTIRE duration of all of the shots. It is VERY common for people to ask about "wildly varying" "random" exposures only to discover that they have bracketing set. Normally when bracketing is on, press the shutter release once and it takes the NEXT member of the bracket. It is a very confusing way to work, actually.

However, that isn't your problem.

The next thing for you to check is to ponder why the exposures are wildly overexposed. I can think of two different ways this could be happening. One would be that the aperture / shutter speed / ISO are set just as they were at 50mm, but you get far more light. That might happen if something about the zoom situation causes the stop-down mechanism to fail. To test this, set the camera in MANUAL exposure mode - at which point spot/matrix/CW doesn't matter. Meter at 24mm and set exposure. Shoot at 24mm, then at 70mm. Are they wildly different?

The other possibility is that the aperture reporting mechanism is broken. If this is the case, then the above test will NOT show any difference between 24mm and 70mm exposure, since in manual mode it does not matter what aperture the camera thinks is set; you're telling it how much to stop down.

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ericbowles

Atlanta, US
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#16. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 0

ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005
Wed 15-May-13 11:02 AM

It sounds to me like you have bracketing turned on with Auto ISO neutralizing the bracketing up to the limit. Here are some ideas to isolate some possible issues.

Make sure your target does not have extremes - no lamps, sun, bright reflections etc that could be excluded as you zoom.

Make sure Auto ISO is turned off.

Don't use flash.

Try some test images with Manual exposure mode and a specific ISO setting - ISO 200 for example with Auto ISO off. Make sure the camera is responding with 10 consecutive images at the same focal length all having the same exposure. Then try 10 images at 70mm and see if they are all wrong.

Take a look at your current images in a Nikon program that displays all the shooting data. Try View NX2 which is free - and make sure you have the latest update.



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KingCedric

Princeton, US
9 posts

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#17. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 16

KingCedric Registered since 29th Dec 2012
Thu 16-May-13 08:59 PM

1. When bracketing, won't the EXIF data show the varying exposures? All exposures are the same in the series, according to EXIF.
2. I never use auto ISO. Always fixed at ISO 100 or 50.
3. All the exposures are perfect from 24mm until 58mm, then above 62mm the images are all wildly overexposed.
4. If I start at 70mm and work my way down, above 62mm the images are overexposed, below they are perfect. That doesn't sound like bracketing to me. If it is, I really don't understand bracketing.

Bracketing seems to be the common theme, but I really don't think so. If I'm unknowingly bracketing, why doesn't it happen with my DX zoom lenses? Why doesn't it happen with my FX 60mm Macro 2.8 lens? I somehow magically turn on bracketing only with the 24-70mm lens? Possible, but highly unlikely.

I do appreciate the input. Really. I got the camera and lens back from Nikon on Tuesday and the notes said everything was fine. Next bright sunny day (effect is most apparent in high contrast situations), I'll repeat my tests and see if there is any change. And I'll try to make sure I don't somehow initiate bracketing. Promise.

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stappy

Alexandria, US
225 posts

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#18. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 17

stappy Gold Member Nikonian since 06th Aug 2009
Thu 16-May-13 11:32 PM

Given the information you have supplied I would agree with Brian (blw) that it does not sound like bracketing. Bracketing just happens to be a common cause of exposure problems like yours and as you found out, it doesn't work like many people assume. But again, that does not sound like your problem.

Given your EXIF data (exposure)shows no change, it would seems to be a mechanical aperture problem. I would certainly try the tests Brian (blw) mentioned. In addition, I might try the following:

Aperture preview button
Set the camera to something like f8 in fairly bright conditions. Zoom to 24mm and press the aperture preview button and look through the viewfinder. Do the same with the zoom at 70. Does it look different. Do it with a flashlight looking into the lens. Do you see the aperture stepping down?

Wide open
Set the aperture to 2.8. Shoot at 24 and 70. It shouldn't be brighter at 70 since it can't get any wider.

Brian


Brian



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Gromit44

UK
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#19. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 17

Gromit44 Registered since 04th Jan 2012
Sat 18-May-13 11:07 PM

>Bracketing seems to be the common theme, but I really don't think so.

If bracketing was switched on surely you'd have noticed the bracketing indicator on the control panel (manual p133). It sounds more like a metering issue to me - e.g. something is appearing larger at the tele end of the lens and is throwing the meter off.

I'd test the camera & 24-70 combination (on a tripod) by shooting a test chart indoors under constant artificial lighting (e.g. a tungsten spot) - see if the same thing happens.

KingCedric

Princeton, US
9 posts

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#20. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 19

KingCedric Registered since 29th Dec 2012
Sun 19-May-13 02:08 PM

I've posted the original images sent to Nikon with EXIF data intact. Link below:

BTW, I got the camera and lens back from Nikon service and the problem persists. I shot 10 consecutive shots at 24mm, then 10 consecutive shots at 70mm. Then 10 more at 24mm. Only 70mm wildly overexposed. Even in spot metering, the center is blown out.

Next step is a visit to Melville to see if their geniuses agree there is a problem. For those catching up, Nikon has had the lens and then the camera AND lens together and both times they ran through the tests and pronounced everything within specs. I guess all D800E and 24-70mm FX 2.8 lenses product this effect, huh.

http://www.abc-digital-art.com/Nikon.html

My disappointment is monumental at this point and only a visit stands a chance of fixing the problem. At this point, I want a new camera AND lens. BTW, both were bought earlier this year, so completely under warranty. Lot of good that's done so far.

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briantilley

Paignton, UK
30235 posts

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#21. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 20

briantilley Gold Member Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003
Sun 19-May-13 02:36 PM

Thanks for posting the examples

Checking the shots at 58mm and 62mm, I can see no difference in the camera settings. The EXIF data states that both were taken at the same aperture, shutter speed and ISO, and that other things like Picture Control were identical.

My only conclusion is that for some reason your lens is not stopping down to the pre-set aperture when used at longer focal lengths. I'm afraid I have no idea why that could happen, apart from a damaged lens. You could test out this theory by taking a similar series of test images in aperture priority with the lens at f/2.8, as suggested in reply #18 above. That would eliminate any stopping down, and the images at 58mm and 62mm should not appear wildly different in exposure.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

Gromit44

UK
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#22. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 20

Gromit44 Registered since 04th Jan 2012
Sun 19-May-13 02:52 PM

Having looked at the pics I see what you mean!! My D800E and 24-70 don't do that - something very odd is going on.

It must be a communication problem between lens & camera but I can't understand why it only does it at 62mm or above - unless the zoom mechanism is somehow interfering with the aperture lever.

The only thing I can suggest is to try cleaning the lens contacts - and (better still) try another 24-70 on the same body.

KingCedric

Princeton, US
9 posts

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#23. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 22

KingCedric Registered since 29th Dec 2012
Sun 19-May-13 04:17 PM

I've tried cleaning the contacts to no avail. I was able to borrow a friend's 24 - 70mm, but our only tests were in low contrast conditions where the effect is largely nullified.

Besides, shouldn't Nikon be running these tests, not me?

They've had the lens twice and the camera once and all I get is a sticker saying it meets the standards.

https://www.nikonians.org/forums/user_files/252085.pdf

Attachment#1 (pdf file)

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briantilley

Paignton, UK
30235 posts

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#24. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 23

briantilley Gold Member Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003
Sun 19-May-13 05:07 PM

The contrast of the scene is unlikely to be having an effect. If you mean "low light" rather than low contrast, then this does point towards an aperture stop-down problem, as in low light a wider aperture would tend to be selected.

It must be frustrating to have the equipment come back with the same fault, but it's always useful to carry out as many tests as possible to try to isolate the problem. It really would help to do a brief further test as I described above.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

JCY88

US
193 posts

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#25. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 0

JCY88 Registered since 24th Aug 2012
Sun 19-May-13 05:49 PM

I hope you have identify the problem by now. It sounds like what have just happened to me few days ago on my 60mm macro on d800. When I tried to get more DOF by stopping down, I progressively getting more over exposure. It turns out a tiny piece of paper stocked near the lens mount on the lens.

KingCedric

Princeton, US
9 posts

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#26. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 24

KingCedric Registered since 29th Dec 2012
Wed 05-Jun-13 11:36 PM

Thank you, Brian.

I have tried a few more experiments and the results at f/2.8 with aperture priority are very interesting. Perfect pictures.

I've posted my latest tests on my site, http://www.abc-digital-art.com/Nikon.html

I shot a series with matrix, center-weighted, spot metering, all in program mode and finally a series at f/2.8 in aperture priority.

Next action - trip to Melville. I am really disappointed with Nikon and their service. The camera has already made one visit to Melville and the lens twice! Both "meet factory specifications."

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gorji

Jamesville, US
311 posts

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#27. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 0

gorji Registered since 07th Jan 2007
Fri 07-Jun-13 07:07 AM

Can you please provide a few samples? The metadata will help us figure this out.
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KingCedric

Princeton, US
9 posts

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#28. "RE: How'd I screw up? Exposures off as zoom in" | In response to Reply # 27

KingCedric Registered since 29th Dec 2012
Fri 07-Jun-13 08:02 AM

I have tried a few more experiments and the results at f/2.8 with aperture priority are very interesting. Perfect pictures.

I've posted my latest tests on my site, http://www.abc-digital-art.com/Nikon.html

I shot a series with matrix, center-weighted, spot metering, all in program mode and finally a series at f/2.8 in aperture priority.

Next action - trip to Melville. I am really disappointed with Nikon and their service. The camera has already made one visit to Melville and the lens twice! Both "meet factory specifications."

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G