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Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ...

HBB

Phoenix, US
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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Charter Member
Wed 23-Jan-13 09:07 PM

Colleagues:

Member Nic0807 (Nicolas) and I have discovered that our D800 cameras will not function in the Commander Mode with a remote Nikon speedlight configured in the Remote CLS/AWL mode.

Would you please go here, in the Speedlight Forum and read the thread? If any of you would configure your D800 in Commander Mode with a remote speedlight, test it and report back to us, it will be appreciated. We would like to find out how many Nikonian D800 cameras have the problem before contacting Nikon. It may be just a few ... or several.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

walk43

Pennsylvania, US
719 posts

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#1. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 0

walk43 Registered since 07th Feb 2012
Thu 24-Jan-13 12:20 PM | edited Thu 24-Jan-13 12:30 PM by walk43

I have the SB-600 but it works fine on my D800. Here is a set of instructions that I use (and tested out again this morning)to set it up with the SB-600 as a wireless remote flash using the pop-up as the trigger. Also works with my SB-R200's in a similar fashion.

On my D800, in the Flash Control for built-in Flash menu (e3), I set the D800 to CMD mode and leave ALL stettings to "TTL" and set it to Channel 1.

PS; This is just in case others want to see how to do it... or have a convenient set of instructions to put in their bag.

Note: I took this from Ken Rockwell's site some time ago. It is for a D90, which I used to have, but works the same for my D800.



Click on image to view larger version


Attachment#1 (jpg file)

Dan
(Nikon D800,V2,Sony HX400V,Lumix ZS40)
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FineArtSnaps

Leesburg, US
401 posts

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#2. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 1

FineArtSnaps Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jun 2012
Thu 24-Jan-13 01:20 PM

Hi Hal, Like Dan, I use an SB-600 with my D800. I've used it as a remote several times with no problem. My SB-910 is supposed to arrive today. As soon as I get a chance I'll check it out too and report back.

Russ Lewis
www.russ-lewis.com
www.FineArtSnaps.com

gpoole

Farmington Hills, US
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#3. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 0

gpoole Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Awarded for his very generous support to the Fundrasing Campaing 2014 Writer Ribbon awarded for his article contributions for the Articles library and the eZine Nikonian since 14th Feb 2004
Thu 24-Jan-13 02:46 PM

It's working fine for me

For the picture below I did the following


  • 2 SB-800s
    • Set to remote Chl 2
    • Zoom at 50mm with LumiQuest Pro modifiers and same distance, height and angles relative to subject
    • Left flash on Group A, right flash on Group B

  • D800e in commander mode
    • Built in Mode --
    • Group A Mode TTL. Comp 0
    • Group B Mode TTL, Comp -1.3
    • Channel 2

  • 28-70/2.8 lens at 70mm f/5.6


  • I think the picture looks correct for these settings. The shadow on the right of my subject is darker than the shadow on the left. This tells me that the flash on the left was a higher setting than the one on the right.

    Click on image to view larger version


Attachment#1 (jpg file)

Gary in SE Michigan, USA.
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icslowmo

Surprise, US
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#4. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 0

icslowmo Registered since 01st Jan 2012
Thu 24-Jan-13 08:22 PM | edited Thu 24-Jan-13 08:23 PM by icslowmo

Hal,

I did find this related to said issue.... Not sure if firmware has been updated to resolve this yet....

Problem:

http://lumenatic.com/2012/03/25/d800-and-wireless-flash-photography-problems/

Nikon's response:

http://lumenatic.com/2012/06/15/nikon-d800-cls-issue-feedback-from-nikon-hq/

Which leads me to ask what firmware version is on the cameras that are having the issue????

Chris

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HBB

Phoenix, US
8774 posts

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#5. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 4

HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Charter Member
Thu 24-Jan-13 10:51 PM

Chris:

Thanks for the links ... very informative.

The firmware versions in my D800E:

A = 1.00
B = 1.01
L = 1.006

I don't know about the others.

Do you know what the current firmware versions are?

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

icslowmo

Surprise, US
613 posts

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#6. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 5

icslowmo Registered since 01st Jan 2012
Thu 24-Jan-13 11:57 PM

Those are the newest available as of today when I checked Nikon's site

Chris

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richardd300

Dyserth, UK
4509 posts

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#7. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 6

richardd300 Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2009
Fri 25-Jan-13 12:11 PM

I have used my SB800 in commander mode with the D800 using the on camera flash with D800 CB setting e3 set to commander. Not wishing to question whether you have done this and I am sure you have checked, but ensure the flashgun is switched "remote

Richard

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HBB

Phoenix, US
8774 posts

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#8. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 6

HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Charter Member
Fri 25-Jan-13 04:35 PM

Chris:

Thanks!

The search continues ...

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

HBB

Phoenix, US
8774 posts

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#9. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 7

HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Charter Member
Fri 25-Jan-13 05:03 PM | edited Fri 25-Jan-13 07:16 PM by HBB

Richard:

Thanks for joining us.

The setup was perfect: SB800 set to "Remote, Group A, Channel 1",

D800E set to "Commander mode, Group A (TTL), Channel 1, two second shutter time, rear curtain sync."

The popup fires once when the shutter opens, but the remote SB800 does not respond. Just prior to the end of the two second shutter time, the popup should emit a second "fire now" pulse. It does not appear.

In Commander mode, the small lightning bolt symbol does not appear in the Control Panel, or the Information Display when the popup is set to off (---), unless I push and hold the Flash Mode/Compensation button. This is apparently to indicate that the popup will not fire while the shutter is open, except for the low-power "Fire Now" pulse necessary to trigger the remotes for image capture.

The lightning bolt symbol appears in both locations when the popup is set to other Commander flash modes (Manual, TTL), without pushing and holding the Flash Mode/Compensation button.

I tried a couple different SB800s and an SB700 (I have twenty Nikon speedlights, including twelve SB800s ...) with the same results. I tested the SB800s on other cameras and they worked perfectly in the remote mode.

In the store yesterday, their D800 worked perfectly in all flash modes, including Commander, when configured identically to my D800E.

I conclude that my D800E is not recognizing the Commander Mode, because:

1) The remote speedlights do not respond to the popup.

2) There is no "Fire Now" pulse emitted by the popup prior to shutter closing.

Next week the dealer is shipping it back to Nikon.

Edited to add new observation re appearance of lightning bolt symbol in Commander mode "---" versus "Manual" and "TTL".

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

FineArtSnaps

Leesburg, US
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#10. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 2

FineArtSnaps Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jun 2012
Fri 25-Jan-13 05:17 PM

>Hi Hal, Like Dan, I use an SB-600 with my D800. I've used it
>as a remote several times with no problem. My SB-910 is
>supposed to arrive today. As soon as I get a chance I'll check
>it out too and report back.

SB910 arrived last night. Works just fine as a remote.

Sounds like you have a camera problem.

Russ Lewis
www.russ-lewis.com
www.FineArtSnaps.com

icslowmo

Surprise, US
613 posts

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#11. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 8

icslowmo Registered since 01st Jan 2012
Fri 25-Jan-13 06:55 PM

Hal,

I'm wondering if it's passable to download the latest firmware and try to rewrite it to the camera again. Maybe worth a try. Maybe when these couple of camera that are having issues with this didn't get updated correctly... I can try and see if mine will let me update with the same software again when I get home...

Chris

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Nic0807

Floreal, MU
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#12. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 8

Nic0807 Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Jun 2011
Sun 27-Jan-13 12:36 PM

Hi Hal and Colleagues,

I tested this issue again this week end. As Steve posted in the previous forum, it would be great if someone could post the details of CLS settings to follow on the D800/D800E.

When i will travel next month, I will get my camera checked by Nikon.

Regards

Nicolas

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walkerr

Colorado Springs, US
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#13. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 0

walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Master Ribbon awarded as a member who has gone beyond technical knowledge to show mastery of the art and science of photography   Donor Ribbon awarded for his most generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 05th May 2002
Sun 27-Jan-13 02:28 PM

Both my D800e and D800 work correctly in this mode - no problems.

Rick Walker

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GeoVista Photography

blatgun

Ollon VD, CH
775 posts

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#14. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 13

blatgun Gold Member Nikonian since 03rd Oct 2007
Sun 27-Jan-13 05:38 PM

My D800 works also correctly in this mode. 2 SB600 and 1 SB900.
Pierre
Nikonian from Switzerland

Thatguy Steve

Springfield, US
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#15. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 12

Thatguy Steve Registered since 13th Dec 2012
Wed 30-Jan-13 08:26 PM | edited Wed 30-Jan-13 08:47 PM by Thatguy Steve

I posted another update in the Speedlight forum regarding a test I recently performed on this issue ....

Not being a CLS or Speedlight guru I'm a bit concerned because it does seem as though I do have an issue ..... maybe .....

The way I'm understanding CLS is that because my D800E is in "--" mode and my SB-910 is on as a Remote my built-in pop-up flash should NOT be firing and just sending out a light pulse that should trigger my SB-910 ..... Yes????? No????

My pup-up flash is firing though, along with my SB-910. And it appears the pop-up is firing a full flash pulse too (I guess).

I do have the latest software installed on my D800E.

I'm beginning to think I need a lobotomy. Is there a doctor in the forum?

Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RJ6jgKWsgo

In this next video, even though it's for a D7000, it is stated the pop-up flash will NOT be in the exposure ..... hmmmm .... is this correct?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRP2jSTax9A











Thatguy Steve
Springfield, VA US
Io porto e sparare: Nikon D800E &amp Springfield TRP

gpoole

Farmington Hills, US
4124 posts

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#16. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 15

gpoole Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Awarded for his very generous support to the Fundrasing Campaing 2014 Writer Ribbon awarded for his article contributions for the Articles library and the eZine Nikonian since 14th Feb 2004
Wed 30-Jan-13 09:09 PM

Almost correct. Prior to the shutter opening the commander makes a series of pulses to have the remotes give pre exposure flashes so that the TTL exposure can be calculated. Then with the shutter still closed the commander sends makes another series of pulses to set the power of the remotes.

When the shutter opens the commander must send one more pulse to trigger the remotes for the exposure. In -- mode this is a very low level pulse, but it is still visible. In theory it's level is low enough that it will will not contribute to the exposure. I've found that this -- trigger pulse does not contribute to the exposure, but it might show up as an additional catch light in a subject's eyes.

I am not able to see the difference in the commander brightness between -- and TTL mode when watching the flash, but I can see the difference in the resulting image.

If the low power trigger pulse is a problem in -- mode, Nikon sells the SG-3IR. This blocks the visible portion of the light from reaching the subject while still allows the IR portion of the light to reach the sensors of the remote flashes. Atypical of Nikon the SG-3IR is inexpensive, $12 a B&H,

Gary in SE Michigan, USA.
Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera.
D4, D810, D300 (720nm IR conversion), D90, F6, FM3a (black), FM2n (chrome)
YashicaMat 124, Graflex Speed Graphic 4x5
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davidmcgill

UK
4 posts

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#17. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 14

davidmcgill Registered since 25th Feb 2014
Thu 27-Mar-14 01:44 PM

I had problems with my D800 in commander mode so much so that it has gone back to Nikon for repair. It did work for a time when I was using it with 2 SB700s but then it stopped triggering the flashguns. An online search revealed that it might be a faulty PCB board. Waiting to hear the news from Nikon.

Oknoder

US
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#18. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 17

Oknoder Registered since 25th Oct 2013
Thu 27-Mar-14 02:22 PM

Tested my d800e with a sb-800 and did not notice an issue. Only thing that came to my mind is the firmware up to date in your camera? Mine says

A 1.01
B 1.02
L 1.006

Odd issue to discover at this stage.
Thanks,
Matthew

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ScottChapin

Powder Springs/ATL, US
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#19. "RE: Possible Problem with D800 Commander Mode ..." | In response to Reply # 0

ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter Member
Thu 27-Mar-14 09:09 PM | edited Fri 28-Mar-14 08:39 AM by ScottChapin

Sorry that I'm late to this thread.

I have a D800 and my firmware is more up to date than others here, but maybe the others are D800e bodies?

A. 1.01
B. 1.02
L. 1.009

My commander mode works just fine as far as I can tell.

Sorry, I just realized that this thread is over one year old, so other firmware cited were current at that time. Isaac (Matt? ) I believe your L is 1.009 and not 1.006?

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA

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G