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First Test Image ...D800E

HBB

Phoenix, US
8774 posts

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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Charter Member
Fri 28-Dec-12 08:27 PM

My wife and I stopped into our camera store last Saturday to pick up a box of Epson 22x17 inch printer paper. On the way out, she said she wanted to look at new point and shoot pocket sized cameras.

Long story short, we left with a new Nikon Coolpix S9300 for her, and a new Nikon D800E for me. I've been shooting with a D3 and D3X for several years now and knew it would just be a question of time before NAS struck. I made it in time for the $200 instant rebate.

I was looking for a quick test of my initial settings. The images below are one of three bears carved into the trunk of a tall pine tree that died a year ago. The chain saw artist requested that I provide an eleven foot high trunk to work with. Three days after he started, it was finished. Then he blackened the nose and claws with a propane torch, and sprayed it top to bottom with three coats of boiled linseed oil over the next couple of days.

The top image is full-frame, and the bottom is a 100% crop from it. Notice the little fine hair on the left side of the bear's nose (camera right), and the little fine cracks in the front of his nose. The detail just keeps coming ... and coming ...

Now, on to more serious testing. Thanks for dropping in.

D800E: Hand-held, 1/125 sec, ISO = 100, Manual mode
Nikkor 24-120 mm F/4.0 at 85 mm and F/8.0
Uncompressed RAW, 14 bit color depth
Serial Number: 30087XX

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

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ttoolan

Sacramento, US
953 posts

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#1. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 0

ttoolan Silver Member Nikonian since 16th Jul 2004
Fri 28-Dec-12 07:39 PM

Congrats on the new D800E. Looks like you'll put it good use. I came from using a D3 and didn't find the transition too daunting. The increase in detail is amazing though. I'll probably keep the D3 for sports shooting but for most other things it is my go to camera.

Tom
D800E, D3, D200, D70, F6, F3/T, F2AS, FM2N

We all come into this world with our little egos equipped with individual horns. If we don't blow them, who else will?
George Sanders as Addison DeWitt in "All About Eve"


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ericbowles

Atlanta, US
10543 posts

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#2. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 0

ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005
Fri 28-Dec-12 08:13 PM

Hal

Congratulations on the new cameras. I'm sure you'll love the D800E. The detail level is simply stunning.


Eric Bowles
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JonK

New York, US
6330 posts

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#3. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 0

JonK Moderator Awarded for his high level skills and in-depth knowledge in various areas, such as Wildlife, Landscape and Stage Photography Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 03rd Jul 2004
Fri 28-Dec-12 10:56 PM

Congrats, Hal. I'm sure you'll get the most out of it.

BTW, you're going to need paper bigger than 22x17 now…

Jon Kandel
A New York City Nikonian and Team Member
Please visit my website and critique the images!

winclk

philadelphia, US
119 posts

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#4. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 3

winclk Registered since 15th Jan 2007
Sat 29-Dec-12 12:48 PM

Hal..congrats on the new camera.

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DigitalDarrell

Knoxville, US
5987 posts

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#5. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 0

DigitalDarrell Team Member Founding Member of the Nikonians writer Guild. Author of most of the NikoniansPress books. Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Charter Member
Sat 29-Dec-12 01:04 PM

Hal,

That's a funny story! Go to buy some paper and come home with a D800E. Oh, the power of NAS.

Congrats on the new D800E. As you've already found out, you're going to love it!

Excellent shot, love the contrast and detail.

==============================================
Darrell Young (DigitalDarrell) www.pictureandpen.com
"Better too many words than not enough understanding."
==============================================

dm1dave

Lowden, US
13632 posts

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#6. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 0

dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006
Sat 29-Dec-12 07:22 PM

Congratulations Hal!

That turned out to be one expensive box of paper. This is why I stay away from camera stores.

Dave Summers
Nikonians Photo Contest Director
My Nikonians Gallery | Current Nikonians Contests

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mr john

Neptune, US
20 posts

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#7. "D800" | In response to Reply # 6

mr john Registered since 04th Nov 2007
Sat 29-Dec-12 08:07 PM

>Congratulations Hal!
>
>That turned out to be one expensive box of paper. This is why
>I stay away from camera stores.

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russg

Phoenix, US
1618 posts

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#8. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 0

russg Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Nov 2007
Sat 29-Dec-12 08:31 PM

Congratulations on the new D800E, Hal. I'm in the hunt right now for the same camera. Coming from a D300, this also means new glass. I see your bear photo was shot with the 24-120 f4 VR. I was thinking that would be the logical choice as the everyday go-to lens for the D800. It is the FX mathematical equivalent of the 16-85 DX that I use for that purpose with the D300, and I'm very comfortable with that focal length range. I'm also thinking that a good ultra-wide compliment to the 24-120 would be the 16-35 f4 VR. I don't know if you have any experience with the 16-35, but I'd be interested in your thoughts on the 24-120. What store in the valley do you typically give your business to?

Russ

KaspInc

CA
7 posts

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#9. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 0

KaspInc Registered since 29th Dec 2012
Sat 29-Dec-12 09:28 PM

You made a very good decision. The D800E is an amazing camera at an amazing price. My D3x is now my backup camera.

Christopher Futcher
http://kaspi.ca | http://facebook.com/KaspInc
Nikon primes... all the way!

HBB

Phoenix, US
8774 posts

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#10. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 0

HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Charter Member
Sun 30-Dec-12 09:18 PM | edited Sun 30-Dec-12 09:29 PM by HBB

Colleagues:

Thank all of you for the warm welcome to the D800 forum ... and another learning curve. I will post test images as they emerge. I have a 24x36 inch test chart that I printed that includes some one pixel-width lines, that I will use. I also have a number of Intel processor chips with their covers removed. It will be interesting to see just how much detail the D800E can resolve. Stay tuned.

I am going to study the white balance function in the D800 to see how it may have changed from earlier Nikon cameras. My insane pursuit of color theory and management continues unabated.

I am also going to explore dynamic range a bit. As sensor photo cell sizes continue to decrease, the image quality does not appear to degrade as we have expected it to do in the past. I suspect that Nikon and others have discovered new materials for photo cells that can produce high image quality at relatively low noise levels at low light and ISO levels.

Russ, I was one of the original partners in the Foto Forum camera store in Phoenix, and have been purchasing almost all my equipment there since it opened in 1972. The major exception includes L-brackets and other products from Really Right Stuff in California, which are not sold in stores. Foto Forum is one of only two remaining brick and mortar stores in the metropolitan area serving the needs of professional photographers. The recent/ongoing recession took its toll. If you can let me know when you are going to be there some time, I will drop in and say hello if possible.

A year ago, I wanted to take the D3 on a two-week cruise that included a Pacific to Atlantic transit of the Panama Canal, and did not want to drag multiple, heavy lenses along. The 24-120 mm was a good choice and performed very well. I will likely use it as a "walking around" lens.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

russg

Phoenix, US
1618 posts

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#11. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 10

russg Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Nov 2007
Sun 30-Dec-12 09:47 PM

Thanks, Hal. Very interesting that you were one of the original partners in Foto Forum. I knew that the store had been there for quite awhile, but I didn't realize that it's been since 1972. I live not too far from the store, just off 7th St. in Moon Valley. I graduated from high school here in Phoenix in 1972. I bought my first SLR while in high school from the Wilson Camera store located in what was then called Chris-Town Mall. It's hard to believe that there are only two full-service camera stores serving a metro area the size of Phoenix. So many have fallen over the years. I bought my first digital camera in back 2000 at The Guild store on Camelback. I've always found the staff at Foto Forum to be knowledgeable and helpful. In fact, I just spoke to Greg on the phone a few days ago.

Thanks for yor thoughts on the 24-120. I'll be looking forward to reading your comments on the D800E and viewing any photos you post. I normally just hang out in the Landscape forum, but I've been checking in here lately as I've been contemplating the move to FX

Russ

HBB

Phoenix, US
8774 posts

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#12. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 11

HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Charter Member
Sun 30-Dec-12 10:04 PM

Russ:

Thanks for your kind words. Much appreciated.

I started the move to FX when I acquired the D3, which replaced a pair of D2X bodies that I had been using for several years. The D3X came along a year of so later.

I kept a Nikon D40X and a copy of the 18-200 mm DX lens for a travel/walking around configuration when I don't want to lug the D3 or D3X and one or more heavy lenses around. The Panama Canal transit was an exception, and I came home with some wonderful images. I sold or traded the rest of my DX lenses, including a perfect 17-55 mm DX zoom that will appear in the Foto Forum used case soon.

I print with an Epson P7900 (24 inch carriage/sheet and roll feed) and enjoy seeing what I can achieve in the way of large format print resolution and image quality. Hence, one of the motivations for moving to the FX format. The D800E is the next logical step in the process.

Regards,

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

Clint S

Chula Vista, US
460 posts

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#13. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 12

Clint S Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Jan 2011
Mon 31-Dec-12 06:03 AM

"I'm sure you will find the D800E an extremely worthy camera. You might want to buy a roll(s) of 24" paper! My guess is you won't want to be printing on 17 x 22 much."

BTW - love your comment in another thread about your "asymptotic" goal of color theory and management, but good luck on that. I can't verify why, but the D800 seems to produce colors more to my liking than other cameras I've used.

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nnikonk

Edinburgh, UK
21 posts

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#14. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 10

nnikonk Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Nov 2012
Mon 31-Dec-12 07:47 AM

First congratulations on the new camera. I have just moved into the world of Nikon with a D800.
I will be very interested in your findings and detailed shots of chips. I have picked up the Sigma 150 f2.8 OS macro and hope also to explore small things with the magnificence of 36 megapixels. Incidentally (in what seems like a lifetime ago - say twenty years) I was involved in work on CMOS cameras which kind of did involve taking the lids off chips.
Cheers.

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HBB

Phoenix, US
8774 posts

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#15. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 13

HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Charter Member
Mon 31-Dec-12 10:21 PM

Clint:

Thanks for dropping in. Nice to hear from you.

I already have several rolls of 24 inch paper in various surfaces, including "Somerset", which is Epson's matte finish equivalent of their Velvet Fine Art, one of my favorites.

The assorted technologies used in digital cameras (hardware, software, optics, LCD display screens, etc.) continue their rapid evolution, with no end in sight. We do live in exciting times.

As mentioned earlier, for some obscure reason, I am deeply interested in color theory and management. It is a fascinating discipline that has its origins with Isaac Newton, one of the first to explore it.

I am convinced that no two people see color in exactly the same manner, possibly/probably due to slight genetic differences. Remember, the human eye/brain system presents us with what we expect to see, not what we are actually seeing. And, we have no way of proving that an object has any intrinsic "color". All we know with any certainty is how we perceive different wavelengths of light reflected from it. Interesting ...

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

HBB

Phoenix, US
8774 posts

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#16. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 14

HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Charter Member
Mon 31-Dec-12 10:36 PM

Eion:

Thanks for your kind comments. I look forward to exploring the D800 with you.

I started my career in the computer industry in 1958, programming vacuum tube computers for the General Electric Company in Detroit, Michigan. I have written a number of text books and articles about the technology over the years, and have lectured all over the world. I also ran a semiconductor research laboratory for several years which gave me an insight to that rapidly evolving technology. Through assorted contacts there, I assembled a nice collection of wafers of various sizes, as well as packaged processors with the lids off.

I continue to lecture on the future of assorted information technologies and try and stay reasonably current ... not always easy, given the rate of change. I suspect you have some in depth insight to semiconductor products also, correct?

I will be getting into the Intel Pentium wafer and packaged chip photography in the next few weeks with the D800E, and will post images here as they emerge. First, I need to get through the remaining hours of 2012 (Staying safely at home tonight!) and a batch of large format printing for a local law enforcement agency.

Thanks for dropping in.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

Iceman15613

Apollo, US
476 posts

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#17. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 16

Iceman15613 Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Oct 2005
Tue 01-Jan-13 01:07 PM

I will be interested in reading your input regarding the two repetitive issues that seem to continue to appear. Focus and moire. I have remained reluctant to give in to my desire for the D800E because of those apparently unresolved issues. Nikon response to the issues has been unusually murky.

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icslowmo

Surprise, US
613 posts

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#18. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 15

icslowmo Registered since 01st Jan 2012
Wed 02-Jan-13 03:30 AM


>I am convinced that no two people see color in exactly the
>same manner, possibly/probably due to slight genetic
>differences. Remember, the human eye/brain system presents us
>with what we expect to see, not what we are actually seeing.
>And, we have no way of proving that an object has any
>intrinsic "color". All we know with any certainty
>is how we perceive different wavelengths of light reflected
>from it.

This is kind of what I'm thinking is the case with the "green" tint on the LCD on the D800. I think some people are more sensitive to green causing said issue. Or I guess it could be the other way around, those that don't notice it may not be as sensitive to green as others.....

I have a friend I work with that shoots with a Canon 7D and really likes the colors it produces (cooler looking to me). I prefer a slightly warmer end result.... So it must be how each person presseves colors and what "looks right" to them.

Interesting.....

Chris

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richardd300

Dyserth, UK
4509 posts

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#19. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 17

richardd300 Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2009
Wed 02-Jan-13 06:12 AM

Your tale sounds familiar. Not on the same scale, but I went on-line to buy a GGS screen protector for my D800 and ordered a Sigma 105mm OS macro lens and a Metz ring flash

As I age certain changes like regular senior moments happen, NAS however, I can happlity cope with.

Richard

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Henry64

DK
142 posts

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#20. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 17

Henry64 Silver Member Nikonian since 13th Jan 2008
Wed 02-Jan-13 02:15 PM | edited Wed 02-Jan-13 02:17 PM by Henry64

>I will be interested in reading your input regarding the two
>repetitive issues that seem to continue to appear. Focus and
>moire. I have remained reluctant to give in to my desire for
>the D800E because of those apparently unresolved issues. Nikon
>response to the issues has been unusually murky.

Focus and moire issues???

Okay, I understand that some have problems with the focus, so whats that about moire?

Do you expect Nikon to solve "moire" issues on the D800e, or what are you talking about here?

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HBB

Phoenix, US
8774 posts

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#21. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 18

HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Charter Member
Wed 02-Jan-13 02:39 PM

Chris:

The human eye is more sensitive to green light than red and blue. This is why the Bayer matrix in digital camera sensors contains twice as many green photocells as red or blue.

Color blindness is likely a relative term, with no two people experiencing exactly the same degree of color perception failure. It appears that men are more prone to color blindness than women ... another genetic quirk.

When viewing any colored object, we must consider the color temperature of the light illuminating the object, as it will have a great effect on how we perceive the color of the object. We must also consider the difference between reflected light (something illuminated with one or more lights of a single or multiple color temperatures) and transmitted light (from a television set or computer monitor).

Thanks for your comments.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

HBB

Phoenix, US
8774 posts

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#22. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 19

HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Charter Member
Wed 02-Jan-13 02:44 PM

Richard:

Ah, yes ... Senior moments!

When asked how old I am, I usually reply: "I'm not as old as I look, I'm really much older."

Agreed: NAS is one of the more enjoyable senior moments.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

Iceman15613

Apollo, US
476 posts

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#23. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 20

Iceman15613 Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Oct 2005
Wed 02-Jan-13 03:57 PM

Not sure what you are asking? Increased moire is a known issue with the D800e. It is not an issue that requires a Nikon solution.
It is a factor in the choice between the 800 and the 800e by the end user. I am surprised that you are unfamiliar with the situation.
General input so far seems to be that moire exists but it is not a major problem. In fact the gain in sharpness outweighs the moire issue. Hope this clears up your confusion somewhat. If not, there are a number of excellent articles by Rob Galbreath among others.

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JonK

New York, US
6330 posts

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#24. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 23

JonK Moderator Awarded for his high level skills and in-depth knowledge in various areas, such as Wildlife, Landscape and Stage Photography Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 03rd Jul 2004
Wed 02-Jan-13 04:15 PM

In my experience — and I'm not shooting fashion per se but I do shoot a lot of theatre — moire from the D800e is negligible. And as you said, I'd rather have the slightly increased sharpness. It makes post processing that much easier.

The issue of moire and, for that matter, the issue of diffraction have been way overblown by the photo community at large. If I see moire, I'll get rid of it in post. If my DOF needs are paramount, I'll go to f/16 or f/22 and not worry about a slight loss of sharpness due to diffraction.

Jon Kandel
A New York City Nikonian and Team Member
Please visit my website and critique the images!

Henry64

DK
142 posts

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#25. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 23

Henry64 Silver Member Nikonian since 13th Jan 2008
Wed 02-Jan-13 07:11 PM

>Not sure what you are asking? Increased moire is a known
>issue with the D800e. It is not an issue that requires a Nikon
>solution.
>It is a factor in the choice between the 800 and the 800e by
>the end user. I am surprised that you are unfamiliar with the
>situation.
>General input so far seems to be that moire exists but it is
>not a major problem. In fact the gain in sharpness outweighs
>the moire issue. Hope this clears up your confusion somewhat.
>If not, there are a number of excellent articles by Rob
>Galbreath among others.

Well, to me it appeared that you had two issues which you expected Nikon to address before you could decide to buy a D800e, focus and moire, of which I thought "moire" to be a kind of odd to name an issue, since it is already addressed in the D800. I must have misunderstood what you wrote.

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Iceman15613

Apollo, US
476 posts

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#26. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 24

Iceman15613 Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Oct 2005
Wed 02-Jan-13 07:18 PM

Agreed. Unless some major piece of contradictory information appears, I am pretty sure that is the practical conclusion. Now, if we could just clear up that pesky focus issue.

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briantilley

Paignton, UK
30235 posts

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#27. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 23

briantilley Gold Member Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003
Wed 02-Jan-13 08:17 PM

>Not sure what you are asking?

Henrik may have been misled by your earlier post (reply #17) - I must admit I too understood you to mean that you were looking for Nikon to address both focus and moire "issues".

So, thank you for clarifying that you don't think the possibility of seeing moire on the D800e requires a response from Nikon

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
3559 posts

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#28. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 26

km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009
Wed 02-Jan-13 08:50 PM

I think the early problems have pretty much been resolved at the production line because we are just not hearing of focus problems on the left focal points anymore.

Even if mine had it, I am pretty sure I would have never noticed since there are very few times if ever I used any camera or any fast lens wide open using a far left focusing point. The right side, is used often with portraits in vertical orientation however. Sure, I would shoot stopped down if the scene called for a far corner focus point, because the lenses performs better but what is the sense in inviting problems by using a lens were it is bound to do its worst? On those cases where I use the left, it is stopped down to give the lens a fighting chance to perform OK.

The left AF problem was discovered by one person using wide open fast wide primes 6 weeks after thousands of D800's were in the hands of photographers. If people had measured their lenses in the past like they are now with the D800 they would find that they never had great performance wide open with fast lenses in the corners.

It would be interesting to do an analysis of just how many people shot how many serious scenes or landscapes at 1.4 using the far left FP, with any camera, digital or film before the frenzy to measure what they could never see in the past.

Regarding Moire, the field reports are pretty conclusive, it is a non-issue. For the few using higher res cameras in the studio, MF, which do not have AA filters, the D800e problem is less than what they are used to. Many were concerned about how the camera was rumored to be unusable on regular fine patterns before anyone actually tried one but after the first week of buyers using it, the only posts we saw where comments about how pleasantly surprised the new owner was that there was no problem. But moire is a problem for a tiny fraction of images, with or without an AA filter. What most people have called moire was aliasing of their monitor and display re-sampling the image, changing image zoom magnification slightly eliminated it, as expected. We all see that occasionally with any camera and any resolution.

And what if 1 out of every 600 shots were spoiled, when 599 were captured better than any camera the photographer ever held before? If those odds are not enough, one would have to question the goal in having such a camera in the first place.


Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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Iceman15613

Apollo, US
476 posts

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#29. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 25

Iceman15613 Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Oct 2005
Wed 02-Jan-13 09:44 PM

Now I am getting confused somewhat. It is probably due to the mention of the focusing problem which we all expect Nikon to address in a meaningful way. But further confusion results when you mention the moire issue with the D800. I was not aware of that problem existed with the D800. I understood that moire was an issue with the 800e because of the absence of an anti aliasing filter. Could you elaborate on this please? It would seem I missed that, completely.

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Iceman15613

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#30. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 27

Iceman15613 Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Oct 2005
Wed 02-Jan-13 09:46 PM

You are welcome. Always glad to shine a bit of light into the darkness.

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Iceman15613

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#31. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 28

Iceman15613 Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Oct 2005
Wed 02-Jan-13 11:15 PM

Excellent, Stan. Well thought out evaluation. It appears that you have already reached the conclusions that I have been approaching. Well written analysis.

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HBB

Phoenix, US
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#32. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 28

HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Charter Member
Thu 03-Jan-13 02:46 AM

Stan:

Many thanks for dropping in! Great comments.

In all my digital shooting experience, I have had just one really outstanding case of moire that occurred with one of my D70 bodies years ago. I was photographing a police officer in a dark navy blue uniform under several SB800 speedlights. The uniform material was a rather course, tightly woven twill pattern of some kind stretched over his bullet proof vest and the moire stood out like a sore thumb.

Since then, I have photographed hundreds of officers in similar uniforms and conditions with D2X, D3, and D3X bodies without a single sign of moire patterns. I suspect that conditions have to be just right for it to appear.

From my personal perspective and experience, it is a non-issue. This is why I opted for the D800E model. As mentioned earlier, in a couple weeeks or so, I plan to experiment with the D800E and wafers full of Pentium processor chips with their dense, tightly packed arrays ... It will be interesting to see if moire patterns appear.

Regards to all,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
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Henry64

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#33. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 27

Henry64 Silver Member Nikonian since 13th Jan 2008
Thu 03-Jan-13 04:34 AM | edited Thu 03-Jan-13 04:38 AM by Henry64

>>Not sure what you are asking?
>
>Henrik may have been misled by your earlier post (reply #17) -
>I must admit I too understood you to mean that you were
>looking for Nikon to address both focus and moire
>"issues".
>
>So, thank you for clarifying that you don't think the
>possibility of seeing moire on the D800e requires a response
>from Nikon

Thank you Brian, that was exactly my point. Sorry I couldn't explain that better.

That should leave you with only one issue, the focus issue, and I think Stan and others has addressed that pretty good (on behalf of Nikon )

So now, with no issues left (LOL), nothing should be stopping you from buying a D800e(none e) and joining the rest of us.

I love both my 800e and 800, today I would have saved the extra bucks and "just" got D800, I cannot take advantage of the extra res. of the E


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Attachment#1 (jpg file)

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richardd300

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#34. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 33

richardd300 Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2009
Thu 03-Jan-13 05:21 AM

A picture speaks a thousand words . Terrific.

Richard

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aztwang

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#35. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 17

aztwang Gold Member Nikonian since 17th Dec 2009
Mon 07-Jan-13 04:34 AM

>I will be interested in reading your input regarding the two
>repetitive issues that seem to continue to appear. Focus and
>moire. I have remained reluctant to give in to my desire for
>the D800E because of those apparently unresolved issues. Nikon
>response to the issues has been unusually murky.

If you are waiting for a fix for the "Moire" I think you'll be waiting awhile. Moire is not a problem with the camera, it is a natural bi-product of removing the AA filter, a function of that filter. As I understand it Moire has not been a big complaint by 'E" owners, of course dependent on what you are shooting. The A/F issue..who the hell knows. My 800 had it.
.

"Technical aspects MUST be innate"



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aztwang

Avondale, US
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#36. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 0

aztwang Gold Member Nikonian since 17th Dec 2009
Mon 07-Jan-13 04:46 AM | edited Tue 08-Jan-13 01:58 AM by aztwang

Hal,
Congrats on the 800E. Where did you get it from, Tempe or FotoForum? Steve down at FotoForum is a great guy, very knowledgable and always a pleasure to talk to.
I look forward to your images and test results. You're always a great supporter of this forum and make everyone feel welcome.
Have a great new year and we are all awaiting images.

Don
.

"Technical aspects MUST be innate"



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Iceman15613

Apollo, US
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#37. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 35

Iceman15613 Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Oct 2005
Mon 07-Jan-13 08:50 AM

Not waiting for a "fix" for moire. The term that was used was "issue". And it remains so.
It does appear that general opinion leans toward it not being a problem and goes on to develop a sub argument that there is not enough difference in sharpness to warrant a purchase of the E over the base 800. It is hard to remember the last time a Nikon body has generated so much discussion. If the need to read the word "fix" in place of "issue" exists, feel free to do that for the focus problem. That needs a "fix." The portion of your comment that caught my attention was that about having moire in your 800. I have generally not heard that mentioned. In the final analysis, I think that technology has brought us to the point that we can identify problems that are not really problems in the real world.

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HBB

Phoenix, US
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#38. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 36

HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Charter Member
Mon 07-Jan-13 02:06 PM

Don:

Thanks for dropping in and for your kind words.

I acquired my D800E at Foto Forum. I am one of three original partners in the store and have been shopping there since it opened in 1972. Steve has been with us for years, and is exactly as you describe. I will pass your comments along to him.

I hope to get to the Pentium processor wafer shots this week, and will post them here when finished.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

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aztwang

Avondale, US
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#39. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 37

aztwang Gold Member Nikonian since 17th Dec 2009
Tue 08-Jan-13 01:37 AM

>Not waiting for a "fix" for moire. The term that
>was used was "issue". And it remains so.
>It does appear that general opinion leans toward it not being
>a problem and goes on to develop a sub argument that there is
>not enough difference in sharpness to warrant a purchase of
>the E over the base 800. It is hard to remember the last time
>a Nikon body has generated so much discussion. If the need to
>read the word "fix" in place of "issue"
>exists, feel free to do that for the focus problem. That
>needs a "fix." The portion of your comment that
>caught my attention was that about having moire in your 800. I
>have generally not heard that mentioned. In the final
>analysis, I think that technology has brought us to the point
>that we can identify problems that are not really problems in
>the real world.
"I have generally not heard that mentioned. In the final analysis, I think that technology has brought us to the point that we can identify problems that are not really problems in the real world."

Oh so true!. My D800 had the Lt A/f issue but was repaired by Nikon succesfully. Moire was never a problem. I should have been clearer in my statement. Personally I'm not sure if moire is even an issue with the E, is it not to be expected with a camera that does not have a AA filter? And you're right, then theres the argument if you go with the E is it that much sharper? They say with proper post sharpening the 800 is as sharp as the E, but you can sharpen the E as well. I do know if you take advantage of the 800's video, the E is then not a consideration . That being said I do miss my 800 in the studio. I did not give the 800 a fair try out as I went to the comfort of the D3S, what I knew best and what felt more comfy in my hands. I especially miss ISO 100 in the studio. ISO 100 is a cleaner file by the Nth degree and allows easier strobe use when approaching the lowest settings. I will be getting another D800.


.

"Technical aspects MUST be innate"



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Iceman15613

Apollo, US
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#40. "RE: First Test Image ...D800E" | In response to Reply # 39

Iceman15613 Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Oct 2005
Tue 08-Jan-13 09:26 AM

My D3s became my go to camera also. Had not thought about the video at all. I remain one of those Philistines who think that video belongs in a video camera. In fact, I could not, as of this day, tell you how to use my D3s video. I actually sold my D700 on Nikonians a short while back. Ironically, what I missed most from that body was the pop up flash! I know, I know, but it was really handy. I expect I will get an E only because my NAS will bug me if I do not. Common sense tells me that the price difference will pay for the battery pack. You know how that goes. About the time I decide, Nikon will be introducing the D900. Sometimes I begin to think they are getting to be worse than Apple. If you get another 800 series to go back in the studio, why are you not considering the E? Or, a D3x? That will give you the full pro D3 body with very little loss of real world mega pixel count. And they are becoming a real bargain.

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G