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Why are colors washed out?

Steve6344

Aventura, US
517 posts

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Steve6344 Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Jul 2012
Sun 30-Dec-12 12:12 AM | edited Sun 30-Dec-12 12:13 AM by Steve6344

Taken today RAW with d7000 35 mm f1.8G
ISO:1200 1/90th sec f2.8

had circular polarizer on lens
focus point was in front of cart(actually underneath a bit)

I converted to jpeg with no correction.
The colors look washed out/hazy to me. Am I seeing this correctly?
This was shot in a building where trains are displayed (Gold Coast Railroad Museum in Miami). It was fairly dark,- that is why I shot with ISO 1200. I realize that I should have shot faster and could have focussed better but I don't think that is causing what I think is a problem. Is what I'm seeing noise?





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dm1dave

Lowden, US
13639 posts

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#1. "RE: Why are colors washed out?" | In response to Reply # 0

dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006
Sat 29-Dec-12 11:37 PM

No, that is not noise.

It looks like lens flair created by a direct light source just off of the upper left of the frame.

I would guess that the angle of the light was such that the polarizer was unable to compensate.

Dave Summers
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Steve6344

Aventura, US
517 posts

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#2. "RE: Why are colors washed out?" | In response to Reply # 1

Steve6344 Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Jul 2012
Sat 29-Dec-12 11:51 PM

Thank you. Since I was indoors I didn't need the polarizer. I should have taken it off. I didn't realize it might cause a problem.

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aolander

Nevis, US
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#3. "RE: Why are colors washed out?" | In response to Reply # 0

aolander Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Sep 2006
Sun 30-Dec-12 02:42 AM | edited Sun 30-Dec-12 12:51 PM by aolander

The polarizer cost you a stop or more of light, and it may have had an issue with the back light, too, causing the flare. Be sure to take filters off when they're not needed.

Alan

blw

Richmond, US
28579 posts

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#4. "RE: Why are colors washed out?" | In response to Reply # 0

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004
Sun 30-Dec-12 02:54 PM

I'm not so sure it was the polarizer - it looks washed out to me, due to the backlight. If you had stepped three steps to your left and thus had the (baggage?) car behind the wagon, I am pretty sure that all of the colors would have been pretty intense.

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Steve6344

Aventura, US
517 posts

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#5. "RE: Why are colors washed out?" | In response to Reply # 4

Steve6344 Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Jul 2012
Sun 30-Dec-12 03:00 PM

In any case, I didn't need the polarizer. I do see what your saying about the backlight. What I did learn is that, apparently, lens flare may manifest itself as a 'haze'. Thanks for your input.

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km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
3559 posts

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#6. "RE: Why are colors washed out?" | In response to Reply # 5

km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009
Sun 30-Dec-12 07:56 PM

Looking at the scene and the haze gradient across the scene, I would guess there was a window just out of the frame to the left that was illuminating the front of the filter. Increasing contrast can help reduce the apparent flare but won't full correct it.
The filter did you no favors, it meant a higher ISO was needed for proper exposure by a full 1-2 stops.
Do you keep the lens hood on? I see a lot of tourists here not using them outdoors and I can imagine they are blaming the camera when their images are thin and washed out.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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Steve6344

Aventura, US
517 posts

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#7. "RE: Why are colors washed out?" | In response to Reply # 6

Steve6344 Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Jul 2012
Sun 30-Dec-12 09:25 PM

I believe light was coming from the open end of the building (from the left). I learned my lesson about keeping the CP filter on when it is not neeeded. At least I did have the lens hood on.

One thing I have noticed is that, in general, it is difficult to easily rotate the CP filter when the lens hood is on. How do people deal with that?

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blw

Richmond, US
28579 posts

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#8. "RE: Why are colors washed out?" | In response to Reply # 5

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004
Mon 31-Dec-12 05:38 PM

> lens flare may manifest itself as a 'haze'.

Flare is, well, flare. What you're seeing here is probably "ghosting" or a lack of contrast, although I'm not familiar with the performance of the 35/f1.8 in such conditions. Certainly if this had been my 35-70/f2.8 AFD, it would be ghosting.

Flare looks quite different. This is flare:

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Re: polarizers. Kind of a problem. Tamron has some of their hoods built with a handy slot in the side of the hood, but some folks have complained that this makes the hood too flimsy. I don't use a CP that often, and when I do I just take off the hood, set the CP and then replace the hood. But then again I probably am shooting on a tripod where that isn't as big a deal.
Attachment#1 (jpg file)

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elec164

US
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#9. "RE: Why are colors washed out?" | In response to Reply # 8

elec164 Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2009
Mon 31-Dec-12 06:31 PM | edited Mon 31-Dec-12 06:36 PM by elec164

>Flare looks quite different. This is flare:
>
>

Actually I believe there are two types of lens flare

Some time ago in one of the other forums during a discussion on overall low contrast in an image I learned from a comment made by another Nikonian about veiling flare which would produce the results shown in the OP's example.

Your example shows, I believe, both veiling flare as well as the second type, ghosting flare.

Pete

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Steve6344

Aventura, US
517 posts

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#10. "RE: Why are colors washed out?" | In response to Reply # 8

Steve6344 Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Jul 2012
Mon 31-Dec-12 08:05 PM | edited Mon 31-Dec-12 08:06 PM by Steve6344

I Googled 'lens flare' and Wikipedia had this to say:\

Lens flare is the light scattered in lens systems through generally unwanted image formation mechanisms, such as internal reflection and scattering from material inhomogeneities in the lens. These mechanisms differ from the intended image formation mechanism that depends on refraction of the image rays. Flare manifests itself in two ways: as visible artifacts, and as a haze across the image. The haze makes the image look "washed out" by reducing contrast and color saturation (adding light to dark image regions, and adding white to saturated regions, reducing their saturation).

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RSchussel

Vallejo, US
424 posts

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#11. "RE: Why are colors washed out?" | In response to Reply # 10

RSchussel Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Nov 2008
Wed 02-Jan-13 11:01 PM

I was curious what type of metering was used. Spot metering often gives very different results. Dont know wheter in this instance it would make a difference but is worth a try.

Also I have found less expensive filters can soften an image due to reflections. What brand of polarizer did you use.

Bob

Steve6344

Aventura, US
517 posts

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#12. "RE: Why are colors washed out?" | In response to Reply # 11

Steve6344 Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Jul 2012
Wed 02-Jan-13 11:18 PM

Spot metering and tiffen filter

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dm1dave

Lowden, US
13639 posts

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#13. "RE: Why are colors washed out?" | In response to Reply # 9

dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006
Wed 02-Jan-13 11:40 PM

This is also my interpretation of “flare.”

Ghosting is just a particular manifestation of lens flare.

Dave Summers
Nikonians Photo Contest Director
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G