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D7000 and diffraction

RWCooper

Winnipeg, CA
1019 posts

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RWCooper Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Jul 2004
Sat 18-Sep-10 08:58 PM

Hi,

I'm wondering about the effects of diffraction with the D7K. It is my understanding that as pixel density increases so does diffraction. Do you think this will be an issue with this camera?

Enjoy!
Randy

elec164

US
2597 posts

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#1. "RE: D7000 and diffraction" | In response to Reply # 0

elec164 Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2009
Sat 18-Sep-10 07:36 PM

While theoretically that is correct I would think the average person would not really see a difference.

CambridgeinColour has a good tutorial on diffraction. In Part 2 if you scroll down there is a Diffraction Limit Aperture Calculator that will allow you to plug in the sensor size and pixel resolution which will allow you to compare the differences.

Pete

Pete

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steved300

NZ
95 posts

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#2. "RE: D7000 and diffraction" | In response to Reply # 0

steved300 Registered since 17th Nov 2007
Sat 18-Sep-10 07:42 PM

yes diffraction is going to come in a bit sooner
this is going to get the people that shoot landscapes and macro
as diffraction is probably going to start in at F11
but the extra MP makes it a bit easier to sharpen


--------------
friends don't let friends pixel peep

TomCurious

Bay Area, US
2352 posts

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#3. "RE: D7000 and diffraction" | In response to Reply # 0

TomCurious Registered since 03rd Jan 2007
Sun 19-Sep-10 07:08 PM

Here is a quote from Lloyd Chambers:

The new Nikon D7000 shows promise, but finding lenses that can deliver to a sensor with 4.7-micron photosites should prove an interesting challenge, certainly not something likely with most consumer zooms, which is what Nikon shows the camera with in its marketing; having 16 megapixels is a token specification if the lenses cannot deliver. The new 35/1.4G (below) might be just such at lens, at least stopped down to f/2.8. Worth understanding is that diffraction will limit performance to f/5.6 with per-pixel performance quickly degrading at f/8 and beyond.

http://diglloyd.com/diglloyd/

Tom
Bay Area Nikonian


http://www.tkphoto.me/

DVDMike

Metro Atlanta, US
2225 posts

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#4. "RE: D7000 and diffraction" | In response to Reply # 3

DVDMike Registered since 25th Mar 2003
Mon 20-Sep-10 01:53 PM

Interesting. Can someone point me to some real world photos online that clearly demonstrate diffraction of existing D-SLR's?

sabbey51

Saddle River, US
649 posts

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#5. "RE: D7000 and diffraction" | In response to Reply # 3

sabbey51 Gold Member Nikonian since 10th Jan 2010
Tue 21-Sep-10 10:23 AM

Since most pocket cameras must have photosites which are far smaller than 4.7-microns, and since they rarely shoot wider than f4 or f5.6, why isn't diffraction a widely seen problem? Or are we just not looking for it (on these cameras)?

elec164

US
2597 posts

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#6. "RE: D7000 and diffraction" | In response to Reply # 5

elec164 Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2009
Tue 21-Sep-10 11:16 AM

While diffraction is a very real phenomenon, opinions about the effects on an image can vary widely. And subject matter can also affect how much diffraction will matter in an image.

For example landscape photographers will generally try to avoid diffraction, yet macro photographers will generally accept a certain amount of diffraction. Reason it is accepted in macro photography is that the added elements through a greater DOF outweigh the small amount of loss due to diffraction.

As I stated earlier, Cambridge in Colour has a good tutorial on diffraction. In Part 1 if you scroll down to ‘What it Looks Like’ they provide a sample where you can roll over the f-number to see what the image looks like with and without diffraction.

Also a Google of ‘diffraction sample images’ turned up this page at DPreview where someone put up examples. But if you notice all the samples are extreme crops of small sections of the capture.

So yes diffraction is real, and the smaller the pixel size the quicker the onset. How much that will affect your images is up to you.

Pete

Pete

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RWCooper

Winnipeg, CA
1019 posts

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#7. "RE: D7000 and diffraction" | In response to Reply # 0

RWCooper Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Jul 2004
Tue 21-Sep-10 01:15 PM

Hi,

Thanks for your responses. I do a lot of landscape and macro photography, so this subject is important to me.

Enjoy!
Randy

blw

Richmond, US
28703 posts

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#8. "RE: D7000 and diffraction" | In response to Reply # 0

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004
Wed 22-Sep-10 11:42 AM

Here is a thread demostrating just how badly diffraction destroys macro images. OK, it's not on a 16mp D7000 but at f/29 I think it's safe to say that it's at least as limiting.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

RWCooper

Winnipeg, CA
1019 posts

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#9. "RE: D7000 and diffraction" | In response to Reply # 8

RWCooper Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Jul 2004
Wed 22-Sep-10 01:48 PM

Brian,

Thanks for the link. I use f/16 quite often with my D300s and macro lens. I hadn't been going beyond that but after seeing the image in the link I'm going to do some tests at f/22 and beyond.

Enjoy!
Randy

blw

Richmond, US
28703 posts

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#10. "RE: D7000 and diffraction" | In response to Reply # 9

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004
Wed 22-Sep-10 04:05 PM

I've found f/54 and f/64 kind of problematic - you can get those on the 85/f2.8 PC if you stop down all the way (f/45) and then focus in closely. But I think we can agree that f/64 on current cameras is kind of extreme. And on that particular lens, I can probably work around the need for f/45+ anyway, precisely because it's that (tilt) lens.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

WD4MLA

Sylva, US
951 posts

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#11. "RE: D7000 and diffraction" | In response to Reply # 10

WD4MLA Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002
Thu 23-Sep-10 01:55 PM

Brian

Are you saying for F11 landscapes you do not see this as a concern?

Thanks

Jerry Jaynes
Great Smoky Mountains
of North Carolina

http://www.flickr.com/photos/by_jerry_jaynes/

blw

Richmond, US
28703 posts

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#12. "RE: D7000 and diffraction" | In response to Reply # 11

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004
Thu 23-Sep-10 04:57 PM

No, I don't. I shoot landscapes at whatever aperture suits the photographic purpose, often including f/22. I'd use f/32 if my lenses had it, probably. (Some lenses are pretty bad stopped down that far, I don't know if it's diffraction or something else, or both.) I don't deliberately shoot at f/16 if I don't have to - clearly if I can accomplish the same goal at f/8 or f/11 I'll do that, just as with DOF. If I need to shoot wide open to yank a subject off the background, I'll do that, even if (say) an f/1.4 lens is nowhere near as sharp at f/1.4 as at f/8. (Few lenses are otherwise, but lots of people shoot wide open, don't they?) On the other hand, if the scene permits, of course I'll shoot at f/8 or f/11 to maximize the optical performance.

But don't take my word for it. Go try it! It costs almost nothing, and you'll know something for the future. It's clear that my standards are lower than the average Nikonian's, and perhaps you care more than I do.

The other thing to remember is that as long as you're not doing a sharpness shootout, you don't have someone else's f/8 (or whatever) sitting next to your print to compare against. Certainly I know of very few lenses that are poor at f/11, and not many are poor at f/16, and the ones that are poor at f/11 are poor at every other aperture too. Once you're viewing the result by itself, relative performance doesn't matter - unless of course you're in direct competition with someone else with better gear and suitably better technique. But more normally, especially for us amateurs, once you're not comparing, it's only a matter of making the image work, and that is a far easier task.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

WD4MLA

Sylva, US
951 posts

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#13. "RE: D7000 and diffraction" | In response to Reply # 12

WD4MLA Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002
Thu 23-Sep-10 09:00 PM

Thanks, Brian, I was getting a bit of NAS reading about the D7000 until I came across this thread concerning the higher MP and defraction, and since I shoot landscapes at F11 got a bit concerned.

I think sometimes we get all involved in lab tests that just arn't a concern in real life situations.

Thanks again.

Jerry Jaynes
Great Smoky Mountains
of North Carolina

http://www.flickr.com/photos/by_jerry_jaynes/

G