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TomCurious

Bay Area, US
2352 posts

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TomCurious Registered since 03rd Jan 2007
Sun 17-Oct-10 05:49 PM

In case you haven't seen it yet:

http://robertbromfield.com/nikon-d7000-review-and-impressions/

According to this initial review, the D7000 falls in the middle between the D90 and D700 in many areas. This is rather good for a DX camera in the D90 price range. But those of us expecting D700-like performance in a smaller body may need to wait a bit longer. Folks over at Nikon Cafe reported similar findings.

The one area where the reviewer is not happy is image sharpness, but this could be attributed to the high pixel density which easily shows any lens imperfections.

Tom
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hpcphoto

US
68 posts

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#1. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 0

hpcphoto Registered since 13th Nov 2009
Sun 17-Oct-10 05:32 PM

The one area where the reviewer is not happy is image sharpness, but this could be attributed to the high pixel density which easily shows any lens imperfections.

Any way to compensate or correct for this? I am thinking about the D7000 but hesitant due to its high pixel count. Thoughts?
Thanks.
Ed

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km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
3571 posts

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#2. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 0

km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009
Sun 17-Oct-10 06:33 PM | edited Sun 17-Oct-10 06:34 PM by km6xz

The problem is he did not use the same settings he did for the d90. A common complaint at first with the D90 was softness compared to the prior cameras in default settings. Everyone quickly learned to increase PC sharpening and suddenly the bad camera turned into the class leader.
He admitted he only set it at 5 which is the default for standard so even setting it at 6 would have compensated for the AA filter better.
A person on DPR posted images set at 6 and they were beautiful, whereas those who used default settings were seeing soft images, just like we did with the D90 when it was introduced. Using RAW, which I do exclusively now, every D90 shot during import is automatically sharpened in my import profile in Light Room 3 to make it closer to the sharpness of the JPG images with the PC Standard set at 6 in the camera.

Another issue is conversion software just does not exist yet that is optimized for the D7000. Only the CD version of ViewNX even allows adjustment to sharpening, the download version does not. Without the correct profiles present in converters there is no telling what the renderings will turn out like.
It is interesting how the complaint of outer focus points are not as good at locking as the D700 but the middle cross points are, without mentioning that the "outer" points are really covering a greater portion of the frame than the D700 which clusters all tightly into the center area with none further out. He said when comparing the center columns, the D7000 did compare. So as to compare apples to apples, comparing the areas both cameras have in common makes more sense.
I would say the review is more flawed than useful.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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hpcphoto

US
68 posts

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#3. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 2

hpcphoto Registered since 13th Nov 2009
Sun 17-Oct-10 06:54 PM | edited Sun 17-Oct-10 06:58 PM by hpcphoto

Thanks Stan. Is there a disadvantage to the higher pixel count on the D7000 as compared to the D300s?

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visionguru

Chicago, US
227 posts

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#4. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 0

visionguru Registered since 03rd Nov 2008
Sun 17-Oct-10 07:04 PM

Tom, Thanks for the link.
The ISO performance part is actually not a big surprise to me. With 3x pixel density, if D7000 manages to match D700, that would have been a revolutionary leap. If Nikon has the technology, they might want to use in their professional models first. It's still an impressive camera, considering the advance in video.

Jay
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donfaulk

Madison, US
75 posts

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#5. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 0

donfaulk Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Aug 2009
Sun 17-Oct-10 07:20 PM

Did anyone notice the color fringing on the dark limbs on the left side of the full resolution image?

Don F.

donfaulk

Madison, US
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#6. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 5

donfaulk Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Aug 2009
Sun 17-Oct-10 07:21 PM

...I.e. on the fall leaf picture...

Don F.

JPJ

Toronto, CA
1327 posts

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#7. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 0

JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Aug 2009
Sun 17-Oct-10 07:24 PM

I read this and I am not sure what to call it, a review I suppose, but iI don't know how I would use this to determine the potential image quality of the D7000. I could take these pictures with a D3s if I didn't use proper technique/settings.

If we are going to test sharpness we need to eliminate user error and have controls. I would like to see the camera on a tripod and converted RAW shots at base ISO in decent lighting. Why handheld JPG samples in challenged lighting?

There is nothing in these shots that give me reason to believe that user error couldn't account for the 'reported problem'.

Incidentally, a number of users on other boards are reporting and posting beautifully sharp images shot in RAW and converted with the provided version of View NX2.

I agree with others here that have noted that a number of people reported the same 'mushy image' problem with the D90 when it came out. Turns out that Nikon simply had the default settings turned down to a very conservative level.

I would be shocked to find out that Nikon has waded into the MP pool with an inherently soft $1000+ camera, taking a 180 from their successful business model of producing sharp/noise busting DSLRs.

Jason

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dm1dave

Lowden, US
13739 posts

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#8. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 7

dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006
Sun 17-Oct-10 07:56 PM | edited Sun 17-Oct-10 07:59 PM by dm1dave

I have to agree that the complaint of softness kind of puts me off to this review. Unless there is a physical problem (not likely) that is causing front or back focus then there is no way that the camera can be inherently “soft.” It is possible that Nikon is using a slightly more aggressive AA filter but that should not cause any significant sharpness issues.

The most likely cause for the complaints, including this guys, is that he has not adjusted his technique for the higher pixel density. This initial flood of softness complaints shows up every time the mega pixel count (pixel density) is increased. I saw this issue when I moved up from the 6MP D50 to the 10MP D80 and again to a lesser extent going to the 12MP D300. After a couple of weeks of shooting at the higher pixel density and figuring out your camera/software settings this apparent image softness will go away as if it never existed.

This is a case were we need to review the reviewer. So far we have had some promising feedback on this camera but I am still awaiting reviews from reputable reviewers before making any judgment.

Dave Summers
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TomCurious

Bay Area, US
2352 posts

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#9. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 0

TomCurious Registered since 03rd Jan 2007
Sun 17-Oct-10 08:40 PM

First let's straighten out a few facts.

To Stan: The sharpening default in standard picture control is 4, and the reviewer indicated it was increased one notch to 5.

To Jason: The reviewer indicated that the shots were taken on tripod, with self timer and exposure delay.

To Dave: There are some ways how a camera can affect sharpness: mirror slap vibration, AA filter (as you said), diffraction (increased by high pixel density).

All this said, I did not take the sharpness complaint too seriously, I'm sure the camera will make plenty sharp images under the right conditions. These conditions may simply be more limited than with other cameras. I.e. Lloyd Chambers writes that with the D7000 pixel density, diffraction would start to show at f/5.6, earlier than D90/D300 and much earlier than D700 with it's low pixel density. Also, it may require better lenses, better technique, faster shutter
speeds etc to bring out all the benefits of the 16MP sensor.

As for the AF performance: The outer AF sensors aren't as important to me, but another photographer had tried the D7000 for flying birds and reported that the AF speed was closer to the D90 than to the D300/D700. This should be no surprise of course. But many of us were hoping it would be closer to the pro bodies, given that the D7000 has some features that used to be reserved to the high end bodies, like metering with AIS lenses, AF fine tune etc.

Tom
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dm1dave

Lowden, US
13739 posts

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#10. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 9

dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006
Sun 17-Oct-10 09:33 PM | edited Sun 17-Oct-10 09:36 PM by dm1dave

To Dave: There are some ways how a camera can affect sharpness: mirror slap vibration, AA filter (as you said), diffraction (increased by high pixel density).

Yes but none of these things (except an over aggressive AA filter, which is very unlikely) will make the camera body inherently soft. Mirror slap is a technique issue, every DSLR has a AA filter and diffraction would have to be pretty bad to make a tangible difference. Inherent softness is the least likely shortfall of this or any other modern DSLR body.

My main point was that that we have seen this issue has come up over and over in the past with every increase in pixel density and the complaints always disappear as soon as the users adjust their technique to the new body.

“All this said, I did not take the sharpness complaint too seriously…”

This reviewer repeated the sharpness complaint a couple of times so he must think it is serious. His example images, as examples of sharpness or high ISO performance, are questionable to say the least. He seems to be just some guy with a blog who wiped out a quick review without based on very limited use of the camera. So again this is a case where we need to review the reviewer. Has he given other reviews in the past? Have hey been accurate? Has he shown that he has done any controlled and or through testing or are these just off the cuff remarks?

Although he seems to be a very good photographer, based on his online portfolio, he may not be a very good or reliable reviewer.

Give it a couple of months and we will here less and less people saying “The D7000 is soft.”

Dave Summers
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TomCurious

Bay Area, US
2352 posts

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#11. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 10

TomCurious Registered since 03rd Jan 2007
Sun 17-Oct-10 09:44 PM

I haven't heard anybody except this one saying the D7000 is soft and I wouldn't get too worked up about it, but the comments regarding AF performance and image noise are pretty consistent with what I read elsewhere: better than D90, worse than D700.

Tom
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dm1dave

Lowden, US
13739 posts

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#12. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 11

dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006
Sun 17-Oct-10 10:30 PM

So far the AF comments have been like I would have expected. This is a place where Nikon can make a significant improvement for the previous generation but still hold back some performance for the higher priced cameras. Nikon has always made the AF performance just a little bit better at each higher price point in the same generation.

The high ISO is a bit harder to judge. A lot of the examples shown so far are not the best images for accurate evaluation. It will be nice to see some quality good side by side testing. It will also be interesting to see the DxOmark testing on this sensor.

Dave Summers
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ZoneV

US
3564 posts

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#13. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 0

ZoneV Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Jan 2005
Sun 17-Oct-10 11:56 PM | edited Sun 17-Oct-10 11:57 PM by ZoneV

"...I am disappointed that the shutter release button is a bit mushy."

YESSSSS!!!!!size>
I love the mushier shutter release like on the pro bodies! I hated the D90's stiff shutter release!

Nikon user since 2000

Drbee

Naperville, US
5927 posts

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#14. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 0

Drbee Silver Member Nikonian since 05th Aug 2004
Mon 18-Oct-10 12:39 AM

Tom,

Thanks for the pointer. I checked out the article and was a bit puzzled with the discussion on sharpening or lack of sharpness. I took the only sample image in the article that showed significant detail, the fall-scene at ISO100, and applied some unsharp mask in CS5. The image is (blistering) sharp. The reviewer indicated the images were from a RAW file and in my workflow, that means the sharpening is an operator choice.

This seems to me to be very basic, just a post processing choice.

This could be a case of the reviewer applying a standard workflow from another sensor to the D7000 and just not taking the extra step to tune it for the D7000.

Confused in Illinois,
Roger



km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
3571 posts

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#15. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 3

km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009
Mon 18-Oct-10 06:30 AM

There is a theoretical earlier onset of diffraction, so that f/11 might start to have pixel level ambiguity, not sure anyone can see it where all else in the test was held constant. The knock on the 7d for landscapers was diffraction starting at f/9 but in reality all the stopped down 7d landscapes I've seen that suffered, suffered from other common shooting issues like tripod stability, shutter release etc.
I really doubt any camera in the Nikon line is very different in pixel level qualities. But throwing in the visual impression of wider DR at higher ISO that has been the key observation of posted images, it looks as if the D7000 really is more forgiving in having more headroom than a D90 or D300s. Of those shots posted where the user knew how to use the camera(after all it is brand new and few probably fully read the manual)and applied the recommended additional sharpening that the D90 needed over rather dull default settings, it appears that this new toy is better at basic imaging than the D300s, D90 and anything else in the DX class for now. Next spring will probably have everyone excited about the upgraded D400 or whatever it will be called. If it builds on the D7000 foundation, it is starting from a very good position.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
3571 posts

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#16. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 14

km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009
Mon 18-Oct-10 06:50 AM

You are right Roger, I downloaded the fall leaf image and added just a hair of sharpening in PS CS5 and have no complaints about sharpness, but rather liked how much detail was still available in the shadows to work with. The RAW files would sure be interesting to play with.
I know the sharpening is different with every camera, some experimenting is needed before anyone can judge the camera realistically. The D90 serves as a good example. I remember reading the DPR review and it panned it compared to a Canon model due to softness at default and later added a comment that they do not make changes to default setting for reviews to explain why, after a few month, they were being critisized for a bad review when other reviews had come out in the meantime that showed more of what people were actually getting from using it in the field. Who knows what sharpening value is needed with the D7000, but apparently Nikon was even more conservative in creating defaults for this model. The posters on DPR who have posted stunning OOC JPGs had bumped it to 6. PC sharpening in Standard profile.
What good is a review that does not experiment a little or know the variabilities that have great influence over the output? It was interesting to read the posts follow it on the blog of those who were going to cancel their orders. Wow, the power of un-critical thinking...they are probably not suited for such a camera with so much adjust-ability anyway.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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bh50

CA
4 posts

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#17. "RE: D7000 review" | In response to Reply # 16

bh50 Registered since 29th Sep 2010
Mon 18-Oct-10 05:16 PM | edited Mon 18-Oct-10 05:23 PM by bh50

>What good is a review that does not experiment a little or
>know the variabilities that have great influence over the
>output? It was interesting to read the posts follow it on the
>blog of those who were going to cancel their orders. Wow, the
>power of un-critical thinking...they are probably not suited
>for such a camera with so much adjust-ability anyway.

Exactly, I can't believe how many reviews use default settings like AWB, sharpness, saturation etc. during a 30 page review and then complain the the color rendition under incandescent is poor, or the image is soft, or the colors are muted.

Take the fall scene from the review, apply Unsharp mask @ 150, 0.3, 0 and you'll be impressed. Try radius of 0.5, very nice.

These are not P&S cameras. The most useful reviews are those that attempt to get the best possible IQ out of a given camera.

G