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Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight

stanflyfisher

US
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stanflyfisher Registered since 30th Nov 2007
Tue 03-Jan-12 08:29 PM

Are there any down falls to using Auto-ISO with a speedlight? I shoot with the D7000.

Thanks for helping an amateur like me!!!

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greenwing

Yorkshire, UK
1304 posts

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#1. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 0

greenwing Registered since 18th May 2006
Tue 03-Jan-12 07:54 PM

The biggest factor, for me, is that the camera will choose ISO based on ambient light only, and so in low-light situations your ISO is likely to go up to the maximum allowed, despite the use of flash.

This is a change that came in with the D300s. Before that camera, Auto ISO would factor in the flash before raising the ISO speed.

Chris

Leonard62

Pa, US
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#2. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 0

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Tue 03-Jan-12 09:00 PM

>Are there any down falls to using Auto-ISO with a speedlight?
>I shoot with the D7000.
>
>Thanks for helping an amateur like me!!!

As Chris mentioned the newer cameras like the D7000 and D5100 will bump up the ISO to match ambient light conditions and ignore that a flash is being used.

You should test it out yourself. I did a test with the D5100 and found that when using the built-in flash the ISO would go up to the maximum setting in the Auto ISO menu. That was generally 3200. But when I put a CLS compatible flash on, like the SB600 the ISO would only go up to 800 and even lower as the ambient light became brighter. I don't have a D7000 or a SB700 but I guess it would act the same way.

None of my other DSLRs do that and that includes the D700, D300 and D3X. So as Chris mentioned it's a fairly recent feature (or lack of).

Len


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km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
3559 posts

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#3. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 0

km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009
Tue 03-Jan-12 09:10 PM

Auto ISO works a but differently with the D7000 than prior models.I never used Auto ISO with flash on my D90 because it would choose the highest ISO before calculating(the flash, not the camera calculates flash power) and running up to 3200, for example would make the shot too noisy when high ISO was not needed.
I've started using Auto ISO with the D7000 because it works so well, over a wider range of ambient light without flash.
When I use flash it is almost always in manual exposure mode, it is just easier I figure. But in experimenting I've found that the D7000 picks an ISO figure that is higher than I might prefer but much lower than the maximum ISO allowed. For example on recent series of shots the Auto ISO parameters were set as: Aperture priority, 1/125 minimum shutter speed, maximum ISO allowed was H-2 and nominal ISO was 200. The aperture was f/4.8. Flash set to TTL.The D90 would have selected a very high ISO but the D7000 selects a high ISO picks 1/125 SS and ISO400 in a number of test shots. Varying any value allowed the ISO to change but still be a moderate value.
With the D90 and others, if using the flash on TTL BL would produce a subject exposure that matched the ambient or back light. If the back light was dim, the subject would be equally underexposed. But the same SB900 set to TTL BL on the D7000 seems to perform differently. In any orientation of the flash head, regardless of background light, the subject is illuminated well. TTL BL seems to assume a different relationship between subject and back light if the back light is dim and falls back to TTL for the subject alone.
So on a recent event I tried TTL BL, bounce for everything, Auto ISO max 3200, Shutter speed minimum 1/125, and instead of manual like most of my flash work, set it to Aperture priority. The results, for high ambient light, low ambient, high background illumination to subject ratio, all turned out with the subject exposed very well. That limited creative use subject and background light but every image had the subject exposure good. It all seemed counter intuitive but it worked using Auto ISO and Balance fill flash with good consistency for no-thinking, set and forget shooting.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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Leonard62

Pa, US
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#4. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 3

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Tue 03-Jan-12 10:20 PM

Stan,

It appears that your D90 with Auto Iso works the same way as my D5100 works with the built in flash. It works as you describe with your D7000 and the external SB900. Try using your D7000 with the built in flash and see how it reacts.

None of my cameras act to Auto Iso the way your D7000 and my D5100 act. When I set my D300, D700 or D3X to Auto Iso, the external flash seems to disable Auto Iso and the ISO setting I choose is what is used even if it is as low as ISO 100.

Hopefully Nikon will standardize the way flash and Auto ISO work. Actually it doesn't bother me since the only time I ever tried Auto ISO was two weeks ago to respond to a forum question. As soon as I finish this post I'll go back to my cameras and turn Auto ISO off.

Len

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stanflyfisher

US
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#5. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 3

stanflyfisher Registered since 30th Nov 2007
Tue 03-Jan-12 10:23 PM

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I appreciate it!
Stan

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stanflyfisher

US
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#6. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 1

stanflyfisher Registered since 30th Nov 2007
Tue 03-Jan-12 10:24 PM

Thanks Chris!

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km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
3559 posts

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#7. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 4

km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009
Wed 04-Jan-12 08:07 AM

You are right Len, with the built-in flash the ISO in Auto sets a value based on ambient light, as if it is in traditional BL mode on the flash. This test was in A mode but also tried in Auto exposure mode(again, never have tried) and found that the ISO is adjusted to a value based on the calculated flash contribution. That is interesting, I've never used the built in flash except in Commander mode so I did not know what to expect before trying it a few minutes ago. If someone was interested they ought to try all the scene and exposure modes that they might ever use to see how they react with flash, external and built-in, to get a feel for how their shooting will be impacted by Auto ISO.
I never had much interest in Auto ISO on the D90 but I found the increased ISO range of acceptable noise has been quite useful for casual shooting with the D7000. For flash use, in which most of my shots are, I only used it this last event where about 1000 frames were taken and it worked fine. I will probably go back to M exposure mode however, and set my optimum ISO because I like to be in more control.
For those who want to think less about settings, shoe flash(SB900 and 700)in TTL BL mode and the camera in Auto ISO. Matrix metering, Aperture exposure mode with appropriate setting for desired DOF and a minimum shutter and max ISO they would be comfortable with set in Auto ISO's menu(I set the depth of field preview button to open the Auto ISO menu to quickly turn it on/off and set max ISO) and forget about settings. Setting those parameters in a User mode for flash use, they will probably find consistent exposure and not requiring any fiddling during shooting. Me, I like fiddling;>)
Whatever set up a new D7000 user prefers, the camera is complex enough to not be fully optimized until experimenting a lot with different modes to see how they react compared to what they are used to. I am still learning what works best in different scenes and lighting after 18,000 shots, although I was very pleased right out of the box. It just gets better. I am also finding that lens produce different results, the one that really impressed me was the cheapest, least used, the 18-105. My 17-55 2.8 also is a lot more impressive on the D7000 so it will probably get used more. The main go-to lenses, 70-200, 85 1.4, Sigma 50 1.4 and 10-20 3.5 gave no surprises and just work beautifully with the D7000. Since getting it in June, every day leaves me more impressed with the camera.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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burdicda

Melbourne, US
111 posts

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#8. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 0

burdicda Gold Member Nikonian since 15th May 2015
Sun 24-May-15 08:31 PM

Just shot my very first test shots with my out of the box for the very first time
SB-700. I set up a test and shot all with my D7100 also new with the latest firmware. I set the camera up in auto-iso 100 min 6400 maximum.
The first picture was using the built-in pop up flash the camera chose 1800 iso
The second used SB-700 ttl on camera, the camera chose 400 iso

It would appear possibly Nikon has fixed this runaway auto-iso problem maybe in firmware in the camera ??

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MEMcD

US
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#9. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 8

MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007
Sun 24-May-15 09:45 PM

Hi Danny,

This Thread is over three years old and is referring to the D7000.
While there have been improvements in the firmware with new models, using Auto ISO with flash is not foolproof.

Best Regards,
Marty

burdicda

Melbourne, US
111 posts

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#10. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 9

burdicda Gold Member Nikonian since 15th May 2015
Mon 25-May-15 02:32 AM

I guess I'm looking for D7100 "birds of a feather" that are not 3yrs or older...
seems like as soon as a new model comes out, immediately no one exists anymore
owning the last model...hahaha

I was just hoping someone would set me straight on just where and what I should set both my SB-700 and D7100 to make sure I am doing it right...

But everytime I find a thread talking about something I want to know..it is old already...

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JosephK

Seattle, WA, US
7064 posts

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#11. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 10

JosephK Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Nikonian since 17th Apr 2006
Mon 25-May-15 06:39 AM

There is no such thing as a bad question. Feel free to start new threads with any questions you have.

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Joseph K
Seattle, WA, USA

D700, D200, D70S, 24-70mm f/2.8, VR 70-200mm f/2.8 II, TC20e3,
50mm f/1.4 D, 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR, 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX

MEMcD

US
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#12. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 10

MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007
Mon 25-May-15 06:42 PM

Hi Danny,

Have you checked the Speedlight forum?

Generally the best practice is to Manually set the ISO when using flash.
If you are shooting outdoors use the default TTL BL mode.
If you are shooting indoors where the flash will be the primary source of light, use standard TTL mode. With the D7100 and SB-700, to change from TTL BL to TTL mode you must change to Spot Metering mode.

Best Regards,
Marty

burdicda

Melbourne, US
111 posts

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#13. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 12

burdicda Gold Member Nikonian since 15th May 2015
Mon 25-May-15 07:05 PM

Thanks I will check out that Speedlight Forum...

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JohnP793

Brentwood, US
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#14. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 13

JohnP793 Silver Member Nikonian since 14th Jan 2006
Mon 25-May-15 07:52 PM

I purchased a D7100 rather recently, so am still getting used to it. I have some indications that auto ISO works well with my SB600, but is a bit different depending on the sync mode chosen. In all cases, the flash is set for TTL-BL and I use P for exposure settings. With front curtain sync, I'll get a nicely (flash) exposed subject, and a black background (using direct flash, not bounce). With rear curtain or with slow sync, Auto ISO seems to kick in, adjusting itself to give a good background exposure. It seems to stop at ISO 800, even though I have maximum ISO set higher. I need to do some more experimentation, and want to try similar experiments with my D90 before I sell that well loved camera body.

burdicda

Melbourne, US
111 posts

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#15. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 14

burdicda Gold Member Nikonian since 15th May 2015
Mon 25-May-15 08:23 PM

I guess some enchanted evening I will setup everything and shoot a shoebox full and try all permutations....to try and figure out what this camera and speedlight are doing to us all...hahaha

You'd think someone somewhere had already done all this for us...
Nikon ???????????

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JosephK

Seattle, WA, US
7064 posts

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#16. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 15

JosephK Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Nikonian since 17th Apr 2006
Mon 25-May-15 10:25 PM

The general rule is that auto-ISO and flash do not play well together. The recommendation is to use manual ISO when using any flash.

The newer cameras work a little better in this regard, but still not good.

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Joseph K
Seattle, WA, USA

D700, D200, D70S, 24-70mm f/2.8, VR 70-200mm f/2.8 II, TC20e3,
50mm f/1.4 D, 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR, 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX

burdicda

Melbourne, US
111 posts

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#17. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 16

burdicda Gold Member Nikonian since 15th May 2015
Mon 25-May-15 11:00 PM

Wow so much for the "Auto" in "Auto-Iso"

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JosephK

Seattle, WA, US
7064 posts

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#18. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 17

JosephK Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Nikonian since 17th Apr 2006
Tue 26-May-15 01:59 AM

Normally you are using auto-ISO because you don't want the flash.

The typical problem with auto-ISO and flash is that the camera boosts the ISO way up to get the ambient light before it increases the flash power. Most people want it to work the opposite way.

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Joseph K
Seattle, WA, USA

D700, D200, D70S, 24-70mm f/2.8, VR 70-200mm f/2.8 II, TC20e3,
50mm f/1.4 D, 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR, 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX

burdicda

Melbourne, US
111 posts

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#19. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 18

burdicda Gold Member Nikonian since 15th May 2015
Thu 28-May-15 12:22 AM

Got an answer back from Nikon on using the D7100 in auto iso mode with an SB700

My Question First:
 Customer By Web Form (Danny Burdick)
05/25/2015 06:52 PM
Is the following statement true? If you try to use an SB-700 speedlite in auto-iso mode will the combination be unpredictable? Do they fight over who wins the auto settings...and if so what is the the party line answer to avoid this in fighting...turn off auto iso and wing it or some speedlite setting trick we are all overlooking?
tnx

Their Answer:
D7100- Camera
SB-700- Speedlight
18-55mm- Lens
AF-C, Single area AF, CH for release mode- AF mode, AF area mode, Release mode

-Camera always produced ISO of 250 for 3 consecutive shots before having to recharge

-In order for the camera to continue firing at ISO 250, we had to let SB-700 recharge for approximately 7-10 seconds

-If we attempted to fire the speedlight before the 7 second mark, the ISO would raise in order to compensate for the loss in power of flash

So there it is finally from the horses mouth Nikon Tech Lab
after reading through hundreds of "experts" in a dozen different forums at a dozen different web sights...

The final word is as I interpret is
As long as the SB700 is at charge the auto iso will give you iso 250 for 3 rapid shots...
If the SB700 drops below charge the auto iso will pick up the difference and could go as high an iso as you told it it could...

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JosephK

Seattle, WA, US
7064 posts

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#20. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 19

JosephK Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Nikonian since 17th Apr 2006
Thu 28-May-15 12:33 AM

Not sure if that really answers the question you asked, but if it works for you, OK.

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Joseph K
Seattle, WA, USA

D700, D200, D70S, 24-70mm f/2.8, VR 70-200mm f/2.8 II, TC20e3,
50mm f/1.4 D, 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR, 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX

burdicda

Melbourne, US
111 posts

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#21. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 20

burdicda Gold Member Nikonian since 15th May 2015
Thu 28-May-15 01:58 AM | edited Thu 28-May-15 02:22 AM by burdicda

The whole idea of asking was like that of the three blind men describing an elephant
So many people from so many different sources on the internet were all throwing about theories concerning the use of a D7100 utilizing an SB700 flash unit while the camera has auto-iso implemented. I haven't had time to see for myself but will.
I wanted to know from a reliable source that if you used this equipment in this configuration which one would rule the iso settings the camera or the flash, and will you get acceptable product by doing so or are there absolute (repeatable) descrepancies in this design. Meaning DO NOT USE AUTO-ISO with the SB-700
TURN IT OFF.

And yes you are right normally you would use auto-iso because you don't want to use flash, but if you did use the two together would the result be acceptable product....maybe not artistic, unique, and perfection...but acceptable

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burdicda

Melbourne, US
111 posts

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#22. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 21

burdicda Gold Member Nikonian since 15th May 2015
Thu 28-May-15 02:17 AM

Acceptable product....how's that for new terminology in the photography world?
I don't think I could have come up with a more generic, remote, unartistic phrase if I tried...hahaha

Subjective interpretation of "great photo by completely automated means"...

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briantilley

Paignton, UK
30235 posts

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#23. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 19

briantilley Gold Member Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003
Thu 28-May-15 05:44 AM

I'm not sure how valuable that answer is, since they didn't tell you what their base ISO setting was, nor did they mention the Exposure Mode being used.

Still, it's good that you're satisfied. Me, I'm going to continue trusting one of the few REAL experts on Nikon's CLS, such as Russ MacDonald (Nikonian username Arkayem)

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

Leonard62

Pa, US
4419 posts

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#24. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 8

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Thu 28-May-15 10:47 AM | edited Thu 28-May-15 10:49 AM by Leonard62

>Just shot my very first test shots with my out of the box for
>the very first time
>SB-700. I set up a test and shot all with my D7100 also new
>with the latest firmware. I set the camera up in auto-iso 100
>min 6400 maximum.
>The first picture was using the built-in pop up flash the
>camera chose 1800 iso
>The second used SB-700 ttl on camera, the camera chose 400
>iso
>
>It would appear possibly Nikon has fixed this runaway auto-iso
>problem maybe in firmware in the camera ??

Nikon did improve the Auto-ISO runaway somewhat in the latest camera models like the D7100. Auto-ISO will only bump up the ISO setting a maximum of 2 stops with an external flash. So in your test with the SB-700, ISO was bumped up to 400. If the camera setting was 100, that's 2 stops. I just set my D7100 to ISO 250 and Auto-ISO bumped it up to 1000, also 2 stops.

The answer you got from the Nikon rep was incomplete in that there was no mention of what AUTO-ISO was set to or what the ambient light in the room was at the time. It appears they answered someones question which pertained to shooting with a not fully ready flash but not your question. Also be aware that the answers from a Nikon rep generally come from a written script in their manual and is not necessarily the result of a test done by that rep. Just be careful how much weight you put in Nikon's answers as we've seen them to be either incomplete or in error in the past. Just be aware of the 2 stop increase with newer cameras in your future shooting with AUTO-ISO. Actually it's better not to use AUTO-ISO with flash.

Len




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burdicda

Melbourne, US
111 posts

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#25. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 24

burdicda Gold Member Nikonian since 15th May 2015
Thu 28-May-15 12:05 PM

Well at least I got someone to respond...I think like most things in life, you have to find out for yourself...what a nice lively crew we have here in Nikonians. I will probably find out what I need with the help of everyone here.

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Leonard62

Pa, US
4419 posts

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#26. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 25

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Thu 28-May-15 12:56 PM

Danny, I went a little further with the test.

I went into a totally dark closet. I could not see anything at all. I set my D7100 to ISO 250 and AUTO-ISO to 6400. I was using the AFS 50mm f1.8G lens set to f5.6. I'm using a SB-800 set to TTL mode. I use Aperture priority. Minimum shutter speed was set in the AUTO-ISO menu to AUTO. Auto-ISO set the shutter speed to 1/80.
ISO went from 250 to 1000, again a 2 stop increase.

Again in the totally dark closet I set the ISO to 100. Also at f5.6 the shutter stayed at 1/80 but the ISO increased from 100 to only 400, again a 2 stop increase.

I have run this test before in the past but never with the D7100. It came out as I expected.

I also ran the same test with the D810 and ended up with the same result. In the dark closet the AUTO-ISO raised the ISO 2 stops only, 250 to 1000 and 100 to 400. I had the Max ISO set as 12,800. The only difference is the shutter speed stayed at 1/60 for both ISO settings.

Len






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burdicda

Melbourne, US
111 posts

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#27. "RE: Using auto-ISO with sb-700 Speedlight" | In response to Reply # 26

burdicda Gold Member Nikonian since 15th May 2015
Thu 28-May-15 02:32 PM | edited Thu 28-May-15 02:34 PM by burdicda

Sounds like what I got

D7100
SB700
Tamron 18-270 set at lock bottom closed down

with Auto Iso set for
minimum 100
max 6400
dark room

It chose 400 2 F stops up
Aperture Mode

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G