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ctdrummer

Southern CT, US
240 posts

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ctdrummer Registered since 09th Feb 2012
Thu 14-Feb-13 02:53 PM | edited Thu 14-Feb-13 02:58 PM by ctdrummer

Hi,

Sorry, not really sure where a question like this fit, so I will try it here. Please move if incorrect.

I purchased this kit last year to clear stubborn spots off of my D7000 sensor.

http://www.copperhillimages.com/shopping/pgm-more_information.php?id=40&=SID#MOREINFO

After using about 3 of the swabs, I was able to get it clean. Now the spots are back. I used 2 swabs and I'm left with streaks now from the spots. I believe I used enough pressure and the proper amount of eclipse fluid. So, have a few questions-

1.) What are the Pec-Pads for? Are they the same material used on the swabs, can you replace the paper on the plastic swabs with this? I would hate to not be able to reuse them. Looking for somewhere that sells replacement paper swabs.

Ad says:
"PEC*PAD is not recommended for cleaning the CCD. It is not the same material used in the Sensor Cleaning Swabs. PSI does not approve or warranty the CCD or any camera part from any damage caused by using non approved products."

2.) Is it normal to have to use 3 or so swabs to get a sensor really clean? The blower works if there is light dust, but not for these spots.

Thanks!


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Remooc

Newquay, Cornwall, UK
33 posts

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#1. "RE: Pec Pads?" | In response to Reply # 0

Remooc Registered since 25th Sep 2012
Thu 14-Feb-13 02:08 PM | edited Thu 14-Feb-13 02:10 PM by Remooc

Hi, I bought this kit about 18 months ago. In the kit was a 100 small strips of swab material and 100 strips of sticky labels to secure the swabs to the tool. The kit also came with a pack of about 10 large 10cm x 10 cm pads which are of the same material as the strips. I didn't receive pec pads in my kit. I presume these can be used for cleaning lenses etc. but as you have found it is common to use 3 or more of the small swabs to get the sensor really clean. So I will be cutting these large pads to the same size as the small swabs when they run out. As for streaks, I have noticed that if you put to much eclipse fluid on the swab, while it does have excellent evaporation properties, any excess can leave streaks. 1 drop of eclipse is enough for 1 swab. Hope this helps. Martin

agitater

Toronto, CA
4527 posts

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#2. "RE: Pec Pads?" | In response to Reply # 1

agitater Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007
Thu 14-Feb-13 07:48 PM

The Pec Pad packaging states "Safe for emulsions, optics, scanners, copiers and compact discs." To me that means Pec Pads are intended only for cleaning of external surfaces. Only Quick Strips are meant to be used only for sensor filter cleaning.

I cannot tell if the Pec Pad material is the same as the Quick Strip material. Even if I had a microscope to examine both materials, it's impossible to tell just from looking at them whether or not they both have the same abrasive characteristics or the same absorbency characteristics or whether Pec Pads shed tiny particles that aren't left behind by Quick Strips.

Another potential problem is that the act of handling the Pec Pad wipes in order to cut them into strips (not to mention the cutting itself) can introduce unwanted particles that would then be dragged across the surface of the sensor filter.

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agitater

Toronto, CA
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#3. "RE: Pec Pads?" | In response to Reply # 0

agitater Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007
Thu 14-Feb-13 08:25 PM

>After using about 3 of the swabs, I was able to get it clean.
>Now the spots are back. I used 2 swabs and I'm left with
>streaks now from the spots. I believe I used enough pressure
>and the proper amount of eclipse fluid.

Probably not. I've watched people at the show and exhibition demos try out both the Copper Hill and the Visible Dust products (they're almost identical). Most people go about the process quite gingerly, even those who've successfully used the products before. Too much time elapses between cleanings and we forget that a fair amount of pressure should be applied. Happens to me too. The demo video on the Copper Hill site provides a reminder.

>1.) What are the Pec-Pads for? Are they the same material used
>on the swabs, can you replace the paper on the plastic swabs
>with this? I would hate to not be able to reuse them. Looking
>for somewhere that sells replacement paper swabs.

Pec Pad packaging states "Safe for emulsion, optics, scanners, copiers and compact discs." External surfaces only in other words.

>Ad says:
>"PEC*PAD is not recommended for cleaning the CCD. It is
>not the same material used in the Sensor Cleaning Swabs. PSI
>does not approve or warranty the CCD or any camera part from
>any damage caused by using non approved products."

There you go. Don't use Pec Pads on a sensor filter.

>2.) Is it normal to have to use 3 or so swabs to get a sensor
>really clean?

I've used two, but never needed three. That's not to say that something I've never run into hasn't gotten a tenacious grip on your sensor filter surface. It could be an oil drop or some sort of spill or splash droplets which got in there during a lens change. Or you're not using the correct amount of Eclipse2 and pressure on the swab.

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ctdrummer

Southern CT, US
240 posts

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#4. "RE: Pec Pads?" | In response to Reply # 3

ctdrummer Registered since 09th Feb 2012
Thu 14-Feb-13 08:35 PM

Thanks. Yes, it's hard to tell how much pressure to use from watching a video. I will try again.


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dm1dave

Lowden, US
13630 posts

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#5. "RE: Pec Pads?" | In response to Reply # 3

dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006
Fri 15-Feb-13 12:40 AM | edited Fri 15-Feb-13 12:46 AM by dm1dave

It is odd (interesting) that they state that PEC-PADs are not recommended for sensor cleaning.

I first started cleaning my sensors with the “Cooperhill System” back when their only kit consisted of a plastic “Sensor Swipe,” a pack of PEC Pads and Eclipse. The PEC-PAD was to be wrapped a very specific way around the Sensor Swipe and you changed the pad each time you made a pass across the sensor.

The only problem with this method is that it is a pain in the rear to wrap the pads onto the swipe. It works quite well and it can take two or three passes to get all of the spots.

I still have and still use all of the original stuff from that kit. I am just about out of PEC-PADs as I have used them for other stuff. I only clean about once a year.

The new Sensor Swabs are probably much more convenient to use and provide more income to the makers ($37 + $10 shipping for 12) than the old style swab that uses PEC-PADs.

I am not sure how easy it would be to get a PEC-PAD properly attached to the new Sensor Swabs.


Click on image to view larger version


Edit: I was going to add a picture with the pad on the SensorSwipe but I seem to be out of PEC-PADs after all.
Attachment#1 (jpg file)

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Golfster

Upland, US
384 posts

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#6. "RE: Pec Pads?" | In response to Reply # 0

Golfster Gold Member Nikonian since 21st May 2006
Fri 15-Feb-13 01:07 AM | edited Fri 15-Feb-13 01:10 AM by Golfster

Patrick... PEC PADS are lint-free cleaning "cloths" which are described by Copperhill as pads that "can be safely used to clean all types of sensitive surfaces: sensors, scanners, CD's, mirrors, lenses, telescopes, etc."

I've been using the Copperhill system for years. I wrap the PEC PAD around the tip of the sensor swap, secure it with a rubber band and proceed to wet-clean. As I understand, this method of cleaning does not actually clean the camera's sensor but rather its AA filter which covers the sensor.

And yes, it may take three or more swabs to clean a "sensor", that's where a loupe facilitates cleaning,

Best Regards, Dennis.

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mborn1

Taunton, US
222 posts

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#7. "RE: Pec Pads?" | In response to Reply # 0

mborn1 Gold Member Nikonian since 20th Nov 2008
Fri 15-Feb-13 12:28 PM

I only use PecPads for external cleaning and cleaning the lenses on my camera. I use the small quick pads of the appropriate size, with eclipse to clean my sensor. I have utilized up to three different quick pads to clean my sensor depending on how dirty it was.

Myer
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Ellis Feibush

Summit, US
286 posts

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#8. "RE: Pec Pads?" | In response to Reply # 4

Ellis Feibush Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Sep 2009
Fri 15-Feb-13 03:07 PM

In one of his Nikon seminars, Mike Hagen suggested to use about the same pressure you would use writing with a ball pen.

efeibush

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km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
3559 posts

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#9. "RE: Pec Pads?" | In response to Reply # 0

km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009
Sat 16-Feb-13 08:50 AM

The AA filter is not as fragile or scratch sensitive as most people assume, it is made of a material that has a moderately high hardness value, about the same as window glass which means harder than stainless steel or but softer than some modern ceramics.
If you are having problems with streaking, it is likely too much fluid was used. If wetted with the solvent, yet the spots are not softened with steady firm pressure, it might indicate the spots are not soluble in alcohol, the main solvent in Eclipse being isopropanol, the most common and safest solvent alcohol. In that case, many organic materials can be dissolved with water. That requires a two step process of cleaning with distilled water and then cleaning with the alcohol which absorbs water well, to get the material that is soluble in water.
As spring approaches, more organic material is floating in the air, pollen, spores etc which have strong organic glues that cause them to adhere to surfaces.
The use of more than one strip is due to very little solvent is used, which prevents streaking. But that also means very little concentration of solvent in any one particular area so the solution of solvent and dessolved material becomes saturated quickly. A sure sign of this is the smearing of oil type material on the first pass. So you can use more solvent to clean and suspend more material but then you still need to remove the excess before it evaporates and possibly leaves streaks or spots where the suspended material is concentrated by the evaporating solvent fluid contraction. Either way, you are going to need a couple passes with clean wipes to complete the cleaning. Just assume that each cleaning is a 3 pass process.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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tcerul

Hardy, US
446 posts

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#10. "RE: Pec Pads?" | In response to Reply # 0

tcerul Silver Member Charter Member
Sat 16-Feb-13 04:31 PM

Are you using Eclipse II or regular Eclipse? If you purchased the CopperHill system years ago when he was supplying Eclipse II, the Eclipse II is probably the source of the problem. Eclipse II has a very small percentage of water in it's solution. Order some regular Eclipse, use it with Pec Pads or the newer Pec strips that the CopperHill kit now supplies and your streaks will no longer be a problem.

I had the same issue and Nicholas, the owner of CopperHill Images, sent me the regular Eclipse and... No More Streaks!

Tom
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Lissajous

Gosford, AU
26 posts

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#11. "RE: Pec Pads?" | In response to Reply # 9

Lissajous Silver Member Nikonian since 01st May 2011
Sun 17-Feb-13 11:03 AM

Just to clarify, Eclipse solution is actually extremely pure methanol. To quote from the manufacturer's MSDN document:

Section II Composition and Ingredient Information
Chemical Identity : 100% Methanol - CAS # 67-56-1

Not that this affects your reasoning. It's still alcohol.
John

km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
3559 posts

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#12. "RE: Pec Pads?" | In response to Reply # 11

km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009
Sun 17-Feb-13 11:59 AM

That might be right, however I was going by a quote by the owner of the company which made sense since Methanol, although is a good solvent, it is also more dangerous, and 15 times more toxic than Isopropanol. Isopropanol is also more effective as a solvent for non-polar materials so it made sense that it was used.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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ctdrummer

Southern CT, US
240 posts

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#13. "RE: Pec Pads?" | In response to Reply # 10

ctdrummer Registered since 09th Feb 2012
Mon 18-Feb-13 11:30 AM

Hi Tom,

It's just regular eclipse. It was part of a kit. Thanks!


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ctdrummer

Southern CT, US
240 posts

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#14. "RE: Pec Pads?" | In response to Reply # 0

ctdrummer Registered since 09th Feb 2012
Mon 18-Feb-13 11:32 AM




Thanks for the great information and help everyone. I have more sensor wipes on order. I will apply more pressure this time to get the spots and streaks off.


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G