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StickBreitling

AU
19 posts

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StickBreitling Registered since 15th May 2007
Mon 08-Dec-08 09:56 AM

I usually shoot raw+fine jpeg with my D700. The jpeg results are extremely good, but recently I've run into some more challenging conditions.

One involved a bright cloudy sky at a beach. Exposing correctly for the beach resulted in loss of some of the sky definition. Conventional wisdom calls for an ND grad (or even HDR with a tripod) - I had neither on me. I processed the raw file and was amazed at how much detail I was able to pull back in from the highlights. It certainly saved the shot.

The second example was photographing Christmas lights outside houses at night. The jpeg had the lights exposed correctly. However, the house itself would be almost black. Bringing in the fill light from the raw file resulted in a lot of detail being extracted.

Have to say that the D700 jpegs are impressive, but the raw is amazing. I use ACR to process. I've always shot raw alongside jpegs in case the white balance needed tweaking, but have now opened my eyes to the extra dynamic range it holds.

walkerr

Colorado Springs, US
16976 posts

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#1. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 0

walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Master Ribbon awarded as a member who has gone beyond technical knowledge to show mastery of the art and science of photography   Donor Ribbon awarded for his most generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 05th May 2002
Mon 08-Dec-08 11:49 AM

Your example is why many people advocate shooting in raw mode. It's simple if you use the right tools and good shooting practices, and it can really make the difference in a number of situations. I've shot jpegs only a handful of times with my DSLRs and P&S's, and I've regretted it every time.

Rick Walker

My photos:

GeoVista Photography

morsere

US
58 posts

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#2. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 0

morsere Registered since 30th Jan 2008
Mon 08-Dec-08 02:52 PM

Here's a question for you - Using ACR to process raw files, does Active D-lighting show up in the final result (that is, does ACR recognize that you selected ADL in-camera and does the result of ADL show up in the final converted data file)? I have all sorts of problems with colors and brightness changing when I shoot raw and process in lightroom and that made me curious about ADL. It seems that it is an in-camera editing option and my guess is that ACR would not recognize it, but I wanted to be sure. I am considering a body upgrade in the future and was curious if the ADL would affect my results or if it would just be ignored by ACR, thereby making it a moot point for feature comparison between cameras.
Thanks,
Ryan

robsb

San Jose, US
14989 posts

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#3. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 2

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006
Tue 09-Dec-08 02:42 AM

ACR does not recognise anything but WB, Aperture,Shutter speed and flash settings and then it applies its own estimation of how the file should look. It does not recognize picture controls or ADL. But ADL will lower your exposure even in RAW and it also modifies highlights and shadows. So there is no way to back it off easily with ACR. With Capture NX you read ALL camera settings including picture control and ADL. You can change ADL in Capture NX but this is one case where a camera setting makes a permanent change to a RAW file. So even if you turn ADL OFF in NX2 you still have to make an exposure compensation. If you leave ADL off in the camera you cannot turn it ON in NX2. Nikon recommends only using ADL for high contrast situations as in high ISO conditions it increases noise.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!
Old age is a special gift that very few receive. Be thankful if you get it.

walkerr

Colorado Springs, US
16976 posts

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#4. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 2

walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Master Ribbon awarded as a member who has gone beyond technical knowledge to show mastery of the art and science of photography   Donor Ribbon awarded for his most generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 05th May 2002
Tue 09-Dec-08 03:11 AM

Active D-Lighting does a few things: it alters the exposure (usually reducing it to preserve highlight detail) and then applies some exposure changes to the lower mid-tones to bring out detail either in the camera (for jpegs) or in NX2 (for raw). If you want to replicate the same thing in ACR, place the camera in Active D-Lighting mode so that it alters the exposure, and then use the fill light control in ACR to add detail to the shadows. It more or less does the same thing. Frankly, I'd give the same advice to NX2 users: take control yourself, turn off ADL and use the equivalent control. It's more precise and very easy to do. Personally, I just try to make sure I get a good exposure (no clipping of highlights) and then use the controls in either ACR or LR to get the look I want. It's pretty easy.

I think ADL is of more benefit to jpeg shooters than it is to raw shooters since there's less margin for error or adjustment with a jpeg.

Rick Walker

My photos:

GeoVista Photography

robsb

San Jose, US
14989 posts

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#5. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 4

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006
Tue 09-Dec-08 07:29 AM

Rick I agree with you that ADL is more benefit to jpeg shooters,and that you can use fill light in ACR to add shadow detail or use a curve. I also think your comments on RAW shooters using NX2 are on target. i don't use ADl as a general rule.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!
Old age is a special gift that very few receive. Be thankful if you get it.

morsere

US
58 posts

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#6. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 4

morsere Registered since 30th Jan 2008
Tue 09-Dec-08 02:09 PM

Thanks for clarifying that. I sort of figured that it wouldn't be recognized by anything other than Nikon software. I agree, it is better to nail the exposure the first time than to lean on software to 'fix' it later. The 'FIPS' (fix it in photoshop) mentality can get you into trouble really quick, especially when shooting JPEG.

osfield

Glenrowan, AU
82 posts

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#7. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 6

osfield Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Sep 2008
Wed 10-Dec-08 08:41 PM

You guys know so much. I am relatively new to digital and the D700 and still cannot fully understand the advantages of shooting RAW. I have been doing so lately but I seem to end up spending so long fiddling with each image in Photoshop CS3 & am not sure I am not wasting my time. Maybe I don't know how to use the software well enough. I have the trial version of Capture NX but have found it hard to work with.
Is the main advantage of RAW that you can change exposure etcetera after shooting. As for giving more colours - I have found virtually no difference in the processing of my jpegs to my RAW images.

I am sure I am just dumb. Your help please?

P.S. If you have a totally burnt out area in a photo - no detail (due to hot theatre lights on a face) is there any way you fix it? Is a RAW file

robsb

San Jose, US
14989 posts

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#8. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 7

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006
Wed 10-Dec-08 09:05 PM

Asking questions does not make you dumb, to the contrary it will make you wise. One analogy that helps if you ever shot film is that a JPEG is like slide film in that what you shoot is generally what you get, although you can make some changes in a digital world. RAW is like shooting print film in that you have an entire darkroom to make adjustments to your image as you output the print. But in the digital world there are many reasons to shoot RAw in your D700. When you get a JPEG out of your camera it has been processed internally from a RAW image based upon the settings in your camera at the time. But it is now an 8 bit image, which has to do with the range of colors you can produce and their graduation in greyscale. When you shoot RAW, the camera collects everything that hit the sensor and also imbeds that same JPEG inside the RAW file. It also keeps a list of the setrtings you made and applies that to the RAW file in an nondistructive way so it can show you a representation of the image when you open it. If you open a RAW image in any oter RAw processor except NX2 you will not see the best possible image. Now what about processing either in NX2 or Photshop? Your RAW file has the complete range captured so you can make major non distructive canges to your image without affecting the quality of the image because you are working with more bits. If you try to do the same with a JPEG file you have already thrown away a lot of data and every time you open and close a JPEG file you throw away a bit more. Secondly any large changes you make will look worse and also there are some things you just can't do to a JPEG that you can easily do to a RAW file. As an example your blown out area is forever lost in a JPEG, but open the RAW file in NX2 and you can adjust the exposure by + or -2EV and in many cases can recover the detail in the blown area. Also all changes you make are non distructive. You can open that file any time revisit your change, make an adjustment and save the file again. You can do this over and over and your file will never degrade. The more you can stay in the RAW space the better your image will be. So my advice to you is try NX2 again. There are many free tutorials on line that will help you understand how to use it. You can easily do things in NX2 that would require masks and other advanced skills to doo the same in photoshop.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!
Old age is a special gift that very few receive. Be thankful if you get it.

amyrhalstead


2 posts

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#9. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 0

amyrhalstead Registered since 14th May 2007
Thu 11-Dec-08 12:14 PM

i am sorry to hijack this thread, but I need some help with my d700 raw files. I can't open them in cs3. Is this happening to anyone else? What can I do?

b2martin_a

US
475 posts

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#10. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 9

b2martin_a Registered since 10th Jan 2007
Thu 11-Dec-08 01:10 PM

Update Photoshop CS3 RAW converter to ACR 4.6, which supports D700.

amyrhalstead


2 posts

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#11. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 10

amyrhalstead Registered since 14th May 2007
Thu 11-Dec-08 02:12 PM

thank you!

osfield

Glenrowan, AU
82 posts

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#12. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 8

osfield Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Sep 2008
Thu 11-Dec-08 08:12 PM

HI Bob - thanks so much for your reply. I really appreciate your very clear response which absolutely makes sense to me - the best explanation I have had. Excellent analogy, So thanks for taking the time to help someone over the other side of the world (I'm guessing you are in USA or Canada? I am in Australia). You have really helped.
Regards Jan

osfield

Glenrowan, AU
82 posts

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#13. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 8

osfield Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Sep 2008
Thu 11-Dec-08 09:27 PM

Hi again - can you direct me to some free tutorials on NX2? Thanks.
Jan

robsb

San Jose, US
14989 posts

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#14. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 13

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006
Fri 12-Dec-08 06:21 AM

Jan:

http://www.capturenx.com/en/lessons/lessons/index.html

The above link takes you to Nikons site and their NX2 tutorials. Also if you type NX2 tutorials into Google you will find more. Also if you decide to buy Nx2 also order Jason O'dells eBook on NX2. He is a Nikonian also and you can find him in the digital processing forum.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!
Old age is a special gift that very few receive. Be thankful if you get it.

jlittle

US
57 posts

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#15. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 8

jlittle Registered since 29th Mar 2004
Tue 23-Dec-08 11:34 AM

Informative thread, thanks all!

I'm thinking about purchasing a D700 (upgrading from a D200). I shoot in RAW format about 98% of the time. My current workflow on Mac OS X (10.4) is:

1) import from CF card via Nikon View 6,
2) review, tag, and edit in Lightroom 1.0, and
3) if necessary, edit further in Photoshop CS2.

This workflow suits me just fine, and in fact, I could probably cut out step #1 entirely and import using Lightroom directly. I plan on upgrading to LR 2 and PS CS4. Is it true ACR is now supporting D700 RAW files? Has anyone here used LR2, ACR, and PS CS4 successfully with their D700 RAW files? I'm just trying to anticipate any issues before making the switch.

Thanks!

The Smokester

US
64 posts

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#16. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 15

The Smokester Registered since 19th Dec 2008
Tue 23-Dec-08 01:46 PM

>...Is it true ACR is now supporting D700 RAW files? Has anyone here used LR2, ACR, and PS CS4 successfully with their D700 RAW files? I'm > just trying to anticipate any issues before making the switch...
>
>Thanks!

Yes. The latest versions of LR2, ACR and PS CS4 (the latter includes a copy of Bridge) support the D700. (ACR 5.2 is the glue that holds them together since it supports the import and conversion of D700 RAW files.)

timberline12k

Kansas City, US
490 posts

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#17. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 16

timberline12k Registered since 10th Sep 2008
Tue 23-Dec-08 04:38 PM | edited Tue 23-Dec-08 04:50 PM by timberline12k

I returned to photography last May after having been absent for 15 years. I purchased Lightroom at the same time I traded in my film equipment for a digital camera. I upgraded from Lightroom 1 to Lightroom 2 last August at about the same time I upgraded from a D300 to D700.

LR2 has been pretty easy to learn but I am probably just using a small part of its capabilities. I like the two screen setup of LR2. I purchased Lightroom in a package with CS3, but I have not taken the time to learn how to use it. LR2 seems to provide most of the functions I am looking for - crop, exposure adjustment, etc. Plus the file management should help me get a handle on cataloging even though I really haven’t given it much thought yet. I always shoot in RAW and Fine. It doubles the number of pictures, but I have enough storage space. I am new enough to the whole process that I like to have the capability to recover a messed up shot.

I just subscribed to Photoshopuser.com (NAPP) to try to start the process of learning how to use Photoshop. That should help me decide if I should upgrade to CS4 before I learn how to use CS3. That is if I find a need for Photoshop.

I just ordered a MAGICA tripod which should allow me to take a series of photos and later stitch them together using LR2 or CS3. I assume one or both have that capability.

Bottom line, I would purchase LR2 again if I were just starting in digital photography.

David
D700 | 21/2.8 ZF.2 | 50/2 ZF.2 | 85/1.4 G | 100/2 ZF.2 | 200/2 G | 24-120/4 G

robsb

San Jose, US
14989 posts

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#18. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 15

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006
Tue 23-Dec-08 11:51 PM

Yes but it still will not read all the D700's settings like NX2 will, so when you open your RAW file in ACR you will get an approximation of what the image really is. From that point you can apply all your RAw processing steps. In NX2 the file opens with all of the camera settings applied to the RAW file. All of the work is saved as list steps, and the entire effort is stored within the NEF file, not in side cars like ACR. You can actually stay in RAW longer in NX2 than you can in ACR. I have NX2 and CS4 Extended, and I do all of my RAW processing in NX2 because it is easier and faster to do so. IF you want to do batch processing, Photoshop is still faster, but for processing RAW NEF nothing beats NX2.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!
Old age is a special gift that very few receive. Be thankful if you get it.

edtsui1946

Chappaqua, US
41 posts

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#19. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 11

edtsui1946 Registered since 24th Jan 2007
Wed 24-Dec-08 10:44 AM

I just ordered a d700 and really look forward to using it. Can someone advise whether the Capture NX will open raw files from the d700? I have a copy of NX from my d300 purchase.

robsb

San Jose, US
14989 posts

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#20. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 19

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006
Wed 24-Dec-08 10:53 PM

Check the Nikon site for the latest update for NX, and it will tell you whether it supports D700. I think you would be happier if you just upgrade to NX2. Nikon will give you an upgrade discount if you already have NX, and the new features are far more powerful than NX.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!
Old age is a special gift that very few receive. Be thankful if you get it.

GregMatty

US
25 posts

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#21. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 8

GregMatty Basic Member
Fri 26-Dec-08 08:33 PM | edited Fri 26-Dec-08 08:34 PM by GregMatty

Bob,

Can you recommend a book on getting the most from Capture NX? I have one on Adobe Capture Raw but have yet to even try NX. Many swear it is better than Photoshop so I might as well take the plunge and get cracking with it.

I just saw your link to the Capture NX tutorials. I'll start there.

Greg


>Asking questions does not make you dumb, to the contrary it
>will make you wise. One analogy that helps if you ever shot
>film is that a JPEG is like slide film in that what you shoot
>is generally what you get, although you can make some changes
>in a digital world. RAW is like shooting print film in that
>you have an entire darkroom to make adjustments to your image
>as you output the print. But in the digital world there are
>many reasons to shoot RAw in your D700. When you get a JPEG
>out of your camera it has been processed internally from a RAW
>image based upon the settings in your camera at the time. But
>it is now an 8 bit image, which has to do with the range of
>colors you can produce and their graduation in greyscale. When
>you shoot RAW, the camera collects everything that hit the
>sensor and also imbeds that same JPEG inside the RAW file. It
>also keeps a list of the setrtings you made and applies that
>to the RAW file in an nondistructive way so it can show you a
>representation of the image when you open it. If you open a
>RAW image in any oter RAw processor except NX2 you will not
>see the best possible image. Now what about processing either
>in NX2 or Photshop? Your RAW file has the complete range
>captured so you can make major non distructive canges to your
>image without affecting the quality of the image because you
>are working with more bits. If you try to do the same with a
>JPEG file you have already thrown away a lot of data and every
>time you open and close a JPEG file you throw away a bit more.
>Secondly any large changes you make will look worse and also
>there are some things you just can't do to a JPEG that you can
>easily do to a RAW file. As an example your blown out area is
>forever lost in a JPEG, but open the RAW file in NX2 and you
>can adjust the exposure by + or -2EV and in many cases can
>recover the detail in the blown area. Also all changes you
>make are non distructive. You can open that file any time
>revisit your change, make an adjustment and save the file
>again. You can do this over and over and your file will never
>degrade. The more you can stay in the RAW space the better
>your image will be. So my advice to you is try NX2 again.
>There are many free tutorials on line that will help you
>understand how to use it. You can easily do things in NX2 that
>would require masks and other advanced skills to doo the same
>in photoshop.

SWLD

UK
86 posts

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#22. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 19

SWLD Registered since 05th Mar 2008
Fri 26-Dec-08 09:44 PM | edited Fri 26-Dec-08 09:44 PM by SWLD


NX2 will read D700 files, NX1 won't.

Simon

robsb

San Jose, US
14989 posts

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#23. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 21

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006
Sat 27-Dec-08 03:29 AM

Jason ODell a Nikonian has an eBook on NX2. Go to the Digital Processing forum and i think you can find the link there. it is the one i used to get up to speed. NX2 is primarily for RAw processing though you can now work on JPEGs and TIFFs in NX2. My files never go tp Photoshop until I have done all I can in NX2 first then I move 1 16 bit Tiff to PS if I need to do anytjing else. You will be amazed at how easy it is to use and the results you will get.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!
Old age is a special gift that very few receive. Be thankful if you get it.

robsb

San Jose, US
14989 posts

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#24. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 22

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006
Sat 27-Dec-08 03:32 AM

Simon thanks for reminding me as i could not remember. NX2 is better than NX1 anyway.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!
Old age is a special gift that very few receive. Be thankful if you get it.

Tom Deacon

CA
9 posts

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#25. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 0

Tom Deacon Registered since 24th Dec 2008
Sat 27-Dec-08 01:09 PM

Since you mention shooting shooting in RAW + jpeg here's a question about that: I've just started using Aperture and in response to a question elsewhere on this forum I've been told that when importing this combo directly to Aperture the jpeg file will always be ignored and only the RAW version imported. This seems like a surprising and disappointing lack of functionality on Aperture's part. Is this really the case?
Tom

robsb

San Jose, US
14989 posts

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#26. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 25

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006
Sun 28-Dec-08 12:42 AM

I have no idea, but I used to shoot RAW +JPEG on my D200 and realized it was just a waste of memory. You can extract a JPEG any time from a RAW file because it is already embedded inside the RAW, so why shoot JPEG at all?

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!
Old age is a special gift that very few receive. Be thankful if you get it.

anzere03

Nashville, US
9 posts

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#27. "Very disappointed with Photoshop CS4 raw processing of the D700 images" | In response to Reply # 10

anzere03 Registered since 04th Dec 2007
Sun 28-Dec-08 11:00 PM

My conclusion is similar to a lot of users in this thread

I was using Nikon Capture NX2 to convert my Nikon RAW files and then transferred them in TIFF 16 bits to Photoshop CS2.

I thought about getting Photoshop CS4 and skipping my NX2 raw conversion because CS4 supports D700 raw files.

The results in terms of image quality and colors are so much worse in CS4 than Capture NX2. One example is how the software deals with chromatic aberrations, Capture NX2 gets rid of them automatically. Using Photoshop CS4, even moving the Chromatic aberrations sliders, I can't get a result as clean as Capture NX2. I tried to tweak the image as much as I can with CS4 raw processor, I can't get it as nice looking as the default output in NX2.

I'm also trying a software form Phase One (Capture One) that gives really nice results.

As of now, Photoshop has the worst raw converter for D700 I've tried.

Just give it a try, Nikon Capture NX2 and Capture One from Phase One have trial versions. There is no need to pixel peep, the difference is really obvious.

This is of course i terms of pure image quality, not in terms of batch processing or speed where CS4 is faster.

Jean

timberline12k

Kansas City, US
490 posts

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#28. "RE: Very disappointed with Photoshop CS4 raw processing of the D700 images" | In response to Reply # 27

timberline12k Registered since 10th Sep 2008
Mon 29-Dec-08 03:23 AM

Can someone explain if Nikon Capture NX2, Lightroom 2 and Photoshop CS4 can work together?

I have only been using LR2 with my D700 and have not jumped into CS3/CS4 or NX2.

What are the strengths and weaknesses of each? Should all three be used together or should you just use one or two?

I shoot RAW and fine. My daughter sometimes wants to download JPEGs from the camera and I download only the RAW images into LR2.

David
D700 | 21/2.8 ZF.2 | 50/2 ZF.2 | 85/1.4 G | 100/2 ZF.2 | 200/2 G | 24-120/4 G

greyface

Acushnet, US
1613 posts

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#29. "RE: Very disappointed with Photoshop CS4 raw processing of the D700 images" | In response to Reply # 28

greyface Gold Member Nikonian since 30th Jul 2008
Mon 29-Dec-08 03:39 AM

I believe you lose some Metadata and tag data going from NX2 to LR2.
Both will work with PS7, CS4 I am not sure. NX2 has all the raw data available.
-------------------

"On no account allow a Vogon to read poetry at you." - The Hitchhikers Guide

robsb

San Jose, US
14989 posts

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#30. "RE: Very disappointed with Photoshop CS4 raw processing of the D700 images" | In response to Reply # 27

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006
Mon 29-Dec-08 06:01 AM | edited Wed 31-Dec-08 12:22 AM by robsb

All you have to do is look in the D700 manual and you will see why you don't want to use 3rd party RAW processors :

"Third-party software does not display
effects of Picture Controls, active Dlighting,
or vignette control."

Also when you use 3rd party SW you can't use the Dust Off function of the camera, as they can't process the file. NX2 saves all your steps in the NEF file, and not in risky side cars. NX2 allows you to do more adjustments while you stay in RAW. You start out with the file looking just like you set it, and you can adjust the camera settings after the fact with a simple click. Every other RAW processing tool will only give you an approximation of the taken image and then makes you jump through hoops just to get where you start out in NX2. I am an advanced Photoshop user who is very much at ease with masks, curves, LAB space, Apply Image, and many other advanced tools, yet when NX2 came out I realized I could do just about everything I was doing in PS in about half the time with better results. I still use Photoshop for special stuff-in fact did just that today to improve an image in a way I could not do in NX2 without NIK filters. So if you want the very best images with the least amount of work process RAW in NX2 and then if you want to do special effects that you can only do in PS or other 3rd party Sw then move a 16 bit TIFF there.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!
Old age is a special gift that very few receive. Be thankful if you get it.

robsb

San Jose, US
14989 posts

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#31. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 17

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006
Mon 29-Dec-08 06:03 AM

NAPP is an excellent source for learning Photoshop. I have been a member for years.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!
Old age is a special gift that very few receive. Be thankful if you get it.

robsb

San Jose, US
14989 posts

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#32. "RE: Very disappointed with Photoshop CS4 raw processing of the D700 images" | In response to Reply # 28

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006
Mon 29-Dec-08 06:09 AM

Any changes you make to a RAW file in NX2 will not be recognized by Photoshop or LR. So if you want to use them all together, do ALL of your RAW processing in NX2 then move a 16 bit TIFF to Photoshop or lightroom. NX@ keeps all of its edit steps inside the NEF file, but ACR uses sidecar files. I only use Phtoshop for special situations like working with pano's, doing sepecial effects like combining multiple images or building composites. Otherwise I pretty much do all of my processing in NX2 because it gives better results that I can revisit at any time; allows me to store multiple versions in the same file, and in general is quicker.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!
Old age is a special gift that very few receive. Be thankful if you get it.

mmolde

Eagan, US
2 posts

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#33. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 8

mmolde Registered since 09th Apr 2004
Tue 30-Dec-08 07:42 PM

Bob:
I too have just received my D700, upgrading from the D200. I have an older version of PS2, and LR2.
In your excellent explanation of RAW file conversion what suggestions do you have for opening/converting RAW files: Should I be using the Nikon software rather than the two mentioned above for better results?

Mark

Mark G. Molde

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timberline12k

Kansas City, US
490 posts

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#34. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 26

timberline12k Registered since 10th Sep 2008
Tue 30-Dec-08 11:34 PM

Bob,

You convinced me I should give Nikon Capture NX2 a try. I ordered a copy and also enrolled to attend the Nikon School when they visit KC in June. I also thought it would be helpful to obtain a working knowledge of NX2 prior to attending the Nikon courses.

Which leads me to a question: Over the past year I have imported several thousand pictures into Lightroom 2. Is it possible or desirable to transfer raw photos from LR2 to NX2?

I will keep my LR2 and CS3 Extended as I try to find what software or combination works best for me.

David
D700 | 21/2.8 ZF.2 | 50/2 ZF.2 | 85/1.4 G | 100/2 ZF.2 | 200/2 G | 24-120/4 G

robsb

San Jose, US
14989 posts

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#35. "RE: D700 RAW files" | In response to Reply # 34

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2015 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006
Wed 31-Dec-08 12:18 AM

David I only tried Light Room when it first came out in beta form and I did not like it, as at the time I was already very familiar with CS2 and CS3 and I saw no need to own it. So I am not familiar with it. As I recall LR did non distructive editing of RAW, but as is the case with NX to LR or LR to NX none of the edits to a RAW file will be read by the other program. If you transfer the original NEF over to NX then you are OK. But I would think that you should just leave what you have already done alone unless you have some particular images you want to reprocess in NX2, as you would lose all of those edits. You could move them as JPEG or TIFF and from that point save any new changes in an NEF, but I don't see much point in that either. My work flow is Nikon Transfer to View NX, though the View NX step is really no longer needed now that NX2 can do ratings and edit Meta Data. It used to be that all NX could do was process the RAW file, but now you can pretty much do all of your editing work in RAW within NX2, you can even work on non-Nikon images and JPEGs and TIFFs but all of the RAW tools are not available for those kinds of edits. You can also save any work you do on a JPEG or TIFF as a NEF, so you can thus do non distructive editing of those kinds of files. For batch processing NX2 is still slow, but in a recent Nikoinians POD cast the Nik program manager said they would fix that in a future release. The main reason to use NX2 is for the U point technology. It is fast and powerful, and I just bought Color Efex Pro 3.0 Complete from NIK for NX2 and it really is integrated very well into the program because NX2 already supports U point natively where PS does not, so their implementation is not as smooth. Because NX2 is so unlike Photoshop or LR, it will take some getting used to, but once you realize how visual it is, you will find it to be very powerful. I have read at least a dozen books on Photoshop and especially focused on advanced techniques using masks, blends, etc. Yet I can do in a few seconds in NX2 what could easily take me many minutes to do in photoshop and when I am done my whole file is still in RAW, where in Photoshop at some point I would have had to leave RAW and use adjustment layers and masks to get the same results. So before your Sw arrives, look at all the on line tutorials both on NIK, Nikon and UTube sites to see how the program works and you will then be ready to work with it as soon as you install it. I know you will be happy with the results. Good luck and have fun with your purchase.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!
Old age is a special gift that very few receive. Be thankful if you get it.

G