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Vibration Control Mode: Need to turn OFF prior to turning camera body off?

vincentnyc

New York, US
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vincentnyc Registered since 24th Mar 2009
Fri 27-Mar-09 02:31 AM

based on a highly knowledgeable source, i was informed by him that i should turn off the VC mode on my Tamron 28-300VC PRIOR to turning off the camera.

When turning on the camera, one ought to turn on the camera body, and then turn on the VC mode on the lens when desired.

Summary:

Turning everything off: Lens VC mode turn off first, then camera body turn off.

Starting everything up: Camera body turn on first, then turn VC mode on lens on.

May I ask if anyone has heard this desired sequence? I was told that this would place the internal workings of the lens in "rest" or "neutral" mode - which is supposed to be better.

thanks in advance.

hwdx347

Maumelle, US
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#1. "RE: Vibration Control Mode: Need to turn OFF prior to turning camera body off?" | In response to Reply # 0

hwdx347 Basic Member
Fri 27-Mar-09 10:52 AM

No idea about the Tamron but Nikon VR lens go into neutral when the shutter release isn't pressed.

Hedley
Originally from Merthyr Tydfil, Wales -- now in Arkansas

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blw

Richmond, US
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#2. "RE: Vibration Control Mode: Need to turn OFF prior to turning camera body off?" | In response to Reply # 0

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004
Fri 27-Mar-09 10:57 AM

I really have no idea about Tamron's VC, but I can say that I don't ever think about Nikon's VR. I just treat it as a lens. I turn the camera on and off and don't think about the VR.

I can also say that if VC must be operated as you describe, I'll never have a VC lens.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

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gkaiseril

Chicago, US
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#3. "RE: Vibration Control Mode: Need to turn OFF prior to turning camera body off?" | In response to Reply # 0

gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005
Fri 27-Mar-09 11:49 AM | edited Fri 27-Mar-09 11:50 AM by gkaiseril

You can check the instruction sheet.

Turning the lens's VR setting off moves the lens's elements to a locked position and locks the elements to minimize damage to the VR moving elements while the lens is not in use. Nikon's lenses lock on camera power off, but if one removes the lens fast enough during the power off cycle the VR elements will not lock just as the VR elements will not lock if the lens is removed while the camera is powered on.

As a good practice, it is a good practice to power the VR circuits off prior to changing lenses as. Just as it is a good practice to include powering down the camera during lens changes.

I have noticed that if the lens has VR on and the camera is on while mounting a Nikon VR lens, the VR circuits do not work as expected until the camera is powered down and back up, resetting the electric circuits.

George
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KQW

MU
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#4. "RE: Vibration Control Mode: Need to turn OFF prior to turning camera body off?" | In response to Reply # 3

KQW Registered since 24th Jul 2008
Fri 27-Mar-09 12:21 PM

It takes a few seconds for VR to dis-engage or shut off whenever you have pressed the shutter button.

Turn the camera off and remove the lens.

rhyder

Palatine, IL, US
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#5. "RE: Vibration Control Mode: Need to turn OFF prior to turning camera body off?" | In response to Reply # 0

rhyder Basic Member
Fri 27-Mar-09 04:06 PM

I'm not familiar with the Tamron, but Nikon tells you (in the documentation that comes with the lens) to shut off VR before unmounting the lens and to turn it on after mounting.

mikeacollins

Kalispell, US
289 posts

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#6. "RE: Vibration Control Mode: Need to turn OFF prior to turning camera body off?" | In response to Reply # 5

mikeacollins Basic Member
Fri 27-Mar-09 05:31 PM

The lens manual for Nikon VR lens says

• Do not turn the camera power OFF or remove the lens from the camera while the vibration reduction mode is in operation. (Otherwise, the lens may emit a chattering noise if the camera is shaken. This is not a malfunction. Turn the camera power ON again to correct this.)

This has been discussed here and in other forums. It has been taken to mean not to turn the camera off or remove the lens while the VR is actually operating. VR is activated when you 1/2 push the shutter button and de-activates several seconds after you release the shutter button. On most VR lenses you can hear it make a click then it does so. I have never turned my VR off when changing lenses.


Mike

------------------------------
Mysteries lie all around us, even in the most familiar things, waiting only to be perceived.
Wynn Bullock

vincentnyc

New York, US
62 posts

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#7. "RE: Vibration Control Mode: Need to turn OFF prior to turning camera body off?" | In response to Reply # 6

vincentnyc Registered since 24th Mar 2009
Fri 27-Mar-09 06:46 PM

>The lens manual for Nikon VR lens says
>
>• Do not turn the camera power OFF or remove the lens from the
>camera while the vibration reduction mode is in operation.
>(Otherwise, the lens may emit a chattering noise if the camera
>is shaken. This is not a malfunction. Turn the camera power ON
>again to correct this.)
>
>This has been discussed here and in other forums. It has been
>taken to mean not to turn the camera off or remove the lens
>while the VR is actually operating. VR is activated when you
>1/2 push the shutter button and de-activates several seconds
>after you release the shutter button. On most VR lenses you
>can hear it make a click then it does so. I have never turned
>my VR off when changing lenses.
>
>
>Mike
>

Thanks, Mike, et al for your comments, advice.

I think this might be the best summary of the facts. I was less concerned with the actual changing of the lenses as I would always turn off the camera body prior to changing a lens. My thought being that current cameras are basically computerized, as are the lenses, hence to abruptly cut off power or interrupt the power in a disorderly fashion cannot be good for either the lens' "chip" or the camera's processor.

My original question, which I had probably not made sufficiently clear, was to do with merely turning the camera body on and off in the ordinary course of taking pictures. Say if you took a 2-hour walk and took some pictures - it would be likely that you'd turn off the camera in-between taking pictures rather than keeping the body's power switch on for the entire 2 hours.

In this scenario, the knowledgeable person told me that one must turn off the VC on the Tamron first, and then turn off the D700's body's power switch. The reason, he said, was that by turning off the VC's switch, the VC mechanism goes to a "parking-like" position, which is "good for it". I think what he's really trying to say is that during the 2 seconds are you release the "half press" of the shutter or after taking a pictures (full press), the 2-second time needed for the VC mechanism to shut off. It is during THESE 2 seconds that one ought not turn off the D700's body power switch.

Hence, Mike's summary is spot on.

Did I fully comprehend it now?

Thanks, guys!

mikeacollins

Kalispell, US
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#8. "RE: Vibration Control Mode: Need to turn OFF prior to turning camera body off?" | In response to Reply # 7

mikeacollins Basic Member
Fri 27-Mar-09 08:18 PM | edited Fri 27-Mar-09 08:22 PM by mikeacollins

Hi Vince,

I was responding to rhyder comments about turning VR on Nikon lenses off before changing them.

While I own several Nikon VR lenses and one Sigma OS lens I don't have the Tamron. You do not have to turn off the VR on either the Nikon or Sigma before turning off the camera so it would seem strange to have to turn it off on the Tamron but you never know. Both the Nikons and the Sigma park the VR/OS a few seconds after the shutter button is released. I tried to find a Tamron 28-300 VC manual but they don't list it on Tamron's site so I can't say for sure.

Also, All of Nikon's current DLSR's go into a power saving mode after a set amount of time. There is little benefit to turning the camera off between pictures. I have left the switch on my D300 by accident and it seems not to drain the battery any faster than when it is turned off.


Mike

------------------------------
Mysteries lie all around us, even in the most familiar things, waiting only to be perceived.
Wynn Bullock

vincentnyc

New York, US
62 posts

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#9. "RE: Vibration Control Mode: Need to turn OFF prior to turning camera body off?" | In response to Reply # 8

vincentnyc Registered since 24th Mar 2009
Fri 27-Mar-09 08:36 PM

>Hi Vince,
>
>I was responding to rhyder comments about turning VR on Nikon
>lenses off before changing them.
>
>While I own several Nikon VR lenses and one Sigma OS lens I
>don't have the Tamron. You do not have to turn off the VR on
>either the Nikon or Sigma before turning off the camera so it
>would seem strange to have to turn it off on the Tamron but
>you never know. Both the Nikons and the Sigma park the VR/OS
>a few seconds after the shutter button is released. I tried
>to find a Tamron 28-300 VC manual but they don't list it on
>Tamron's site so I can't say for sure.
>
>Also, All of Nikon's current DLSR's go into a power saving
>mode after a set amount of time. There is little benefit to
>turning the camera off between pictures. I have left the
>switch on my D300 by accident and it seems not to drain the
>battery any faster than when it is turned off.
>
>Mike
>
Excellent information, once again, Mike.

It does make sense that if for the Nikon VR and Signa OS lenses, one doesn't have to turn the VR/OS off first, prior to turning off the camera body's power, then one ought to be able to extrapolate to Tamron's "VC" system as well.

Btw, I've read the little leaflet for the Tamron (I bought the lens yesterday) twice and did not see anything about this. I doubt that I missed it twice.

Your comment about the D700's auto "power save" mode is excellent news. As the Tamron's VC system shuts off around 2 seconds after the picture is taken, I think that it enters into a "parked and safe" position before it shuts off, therefore there's little point in turning off the power switch, as you said. Hey, it is less hassle to just leave it on, plus, less wear and tear on the on/off switch to boot!

Thanks again.

Len Shepherd

Yorkshire, UK
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#10. "RE:Clarifications" | In response to Reply # 0

Len Shepherd Gold Member Nikonian since 09th Mar 2003
Sat 28-Mar-09 10:38 AM

There seem to be some misunderstandings.
When Nikon VR is operating the VR element group is not locked firmly in place for transit etc.
When a picture has been taken or first pressure has been taken off the shutter VR stops running, ending with a click sound.
This click sound is the important bit - it is the VR element group lock locking everything firmly in place for transit.
Digressing it does help to switch the camera off and back on when changing lenses as the lens information signaled to the camera body is less likely to be interrupted if the signal is read after the lens is fully bayoneted home. Being honest - I do not always remember to do this
The guidelines are it is best to switch the camera off and off when changing lenses, but with Nikon there is no need to slide the VR switch to off PROVIDED VR has stopped running and the click has confirmed the VR element group is locked in place.
I do not know about Tamron, so it might be essential to use the switch if there is no automatic VC lock.

Photography is a bit like archery. A technically better camera, lens or arrow may not hit the target as often as it could if the photographer or archer does not practice enough.

Len Shepherd

knud

Copenhagen, DK
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#11. "RE: Vibration Control Mode: Need to turn OFF prior to turning camera body off?" | In response to Reply # 8

knud Registered since 16th Nov 2004
Sun 29-Mar-09 11:32 AM | edited Sun 29-Mar-09 11:45 AM by knud

Further more when you turn off power when VR is active, the camera body will not power down before VR is inactive, I just did a test on my D700 with the 70-200VR, turning off the power with the release button half depressed. VR disengages with the normal "click", and the the camera powers down. I have had the same experience with the D70 and the D2x.

The same happens if there are images in the buffer, the camera will not power down before all images have been written to the CF card.

On the other hand I have had occasions where the D2x and the 70-200VR lost contact with each other. This results in a pretty loud "clunck" and a free floating VR element. When this happens wickling the lens in the mount and pressing the release button usually solves the problem.

Best regards,
Knud

http://kiekan.mono.net

agitater

Toronto, CA
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#12. "RE:Clarifications" | In response to Reply # 10

agitater Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007
Sun 29-Mar-09 02:04 PM

I think that the very best way to avoid accidentally activating a stabilization mechanism during lens changes (whether the camera is turned off, or, accidentally left on) or when shutting off the camera (people sometimes accidentally press the shutter button on D-series cameras when working the on/off ring, or accidentally press the shutter on a vertical grip when the camera is left on during a lens change), is to turn off the stabilization mechanism first. A stabilization mechanism that doesn't get a chance to park itself can inadvertently be shaken sufficiently to cause damage.

Obviously however, the bodies and the lens stabilization systems are designed to handle all sorts of non-recommended use - they're all good-to-excellent quality products.

At the Henry's Annual Photographic & Digital Imaging Show, October 2008 in Toronto, I asked reps from Nikon, Canon, Sigma and Tamron about startup and shutdown sequences in light of the fact that more and more electronically switched devices (stabilized lenses, GPS units, Pocket Wizards, flashguns, etc.) are being bolted to our cameras. Every rep stated that leaving a lens stabilization switch in the on position was unlikely to hurt anything, but they nonetheless all recommended that the lens stabilization switch be turned off (then the camera turned off) before detaching and stowing a lens. All reps stated that it is possible to damage the stabilization actuation circuit in the lens when a live/active lens is detached from the camera. None of the reps thought that any damage could occur to the camera in such a situation, but they also stated that using a non-switched method of disconnecting a live circuit (e.g., detaching a live VR lens from a live camera) is probably a dopey thing to do. A senior Nikon service technician told me simply, "Don't work with active circuits. Switch VR off. Then switch off the camera. Stow the camera or change the lens. What's so hard about that!?" I didn't have an answer.

Some Nikkor VR lens manuals also state that the VR switch should be turned off before switching off the camera prior to a lens change. Whether or not that (and the Nikon senior tech's advice) is a holdover from somewhat less sophisticated first-gen VR designs is anyone's guess.

All of the Show reps (from Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Olympus and Sony) stated that it was probably a good idea to switch off the camera body when the camera is stowed during travel, or when moving from location to location, but that idling circuit levels draw so little battery power that the camera body is all but shut down anyway once it goes into power-saving mode after a few minutes. All of the Show reps also stated that one of the battery drain issues they frequently hear about are the result of people using vertical grips that are constantly switched on. They walk around with the camera on their shoulder, thinking it's in power saving mode, when it's actually constantly being activated every few steps as the shutter button on the grip bumps against a piece of clothing, a camera bag or something else. In those situations, stabilization can also be activated which is a further drain on the camera battery.

The Nikon, Canon and Sigma lens reps all stated that their stabilization designs are meant to be left on, if desired, any time the camera is switched on. The stabilization mechanisms are all designed to park automatically when they go inactive a few seconds after the shutter is released. Most stabilization mechanisms are also designed to go inactive and park automatically when the shutter is half-pressed and held continuously for more than 10 seconds (the length of time varies evidently, depending on how much the photographer is physically moving while the shutter is half-pressed). All this means is that all of the stabilization designs have live parking mechanisms fully capable of dealing with most of the bumps, bangs, and other motions and impacts which occur when we're wandering, walking, working an event or location, etc.,

I obviously also had the chance to ask the reps at the Photographic & Digital Imaging Show if their lens stabilization switches activated a safety interlock of some sort, in addition to merely switching off stabilization and parking the mechanism, but forgot to ask the question. There's another huge Photographic & Digital Imaging Show coming up at the end of May in Toronto and I'm going to ask that question.

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vincentnyc

New York, US
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#13. "RE:Clarifications" | In response to Reply # 12

vincentnyc Registered since 24th Mar 2009
Sun 29-Mar-09 03:42 PM

Hello Howard "agitater":

Thank you for a most complete summary of this "issue" or query.

As a very careful user of all of my equipment, I wanted to "start off correctly" as this is my first modern Nikon! Being excited about my D700, I want to have as complete an understanding as possible of everything related to what I use. (btw, my first "Nikon" was in high school, when I took all my Christmas money and bought a Nikkormat! Could not afford anything else, other than a tele-extender. Telephoto lenses were out of the question because they were out of my budget)

Thank you for such an excellent, thorough explanation.

I recall that when I inspected it (fresh out of the box) at B&H (my copy of the lens when it came up from inventory), it rattled rather loudly, especially when held in the vertical position: rear element towards the ceiling, front element towards the floor). The floor sample copy of the identical lens rattled too, but differently. Strange.

Thanks again, Howard!

agitater

Toronto, CA
4551 posts

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#14. "RE:Clarifications" | In response to Reply # 13

agitater Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007
Sun 29-Mar-09 05:21 PM

>I recall that when I inspected it (fresh out of the box) at
>B&H (my copy of the lens when it came up from inventory),
>it rattled rather loudly, especially when held in the vertical
>position: rear element towards the ceiling, front element
>towards the floor). The floor sample copy of the identical
>lens rattled too, but differently. Strange.

All of the Tamron 28-300 VC lenses rattle when gently shaken. I don't know the reason for the rattle, but it sounds as though some legitimate tolerance in an internal focus gear or internal plastic retaining ring is making the noise. According to Tamron, which was not specific about exactly which part causes the faint rattle, the lens is working and handling as designed. Personally, I think the rattle is made by a movement limiter - a slightly damped internal ring which prevents the VC mechanism from being over-deflected and damaged by sudden photographer movements while the VC is engaged and active. Such a limiter ring or damper might have been designed to simply sit loosely within a barrel limiter stop when the lens is inactive. If so, it accounts for a noticeable but inconsequential rattle. I'm guessing at this, but I'm basing the guess on the fact that Tamron's VC operates in three axes and automatically detects panning. My limited knowledge of engineering suggests to me that Tamron may have used a cost saving measure which employs the use of mechanical VC mechanism limit damping rather than more expensive damping which maintains closer tolerances and more direct physical contact with the active VC assembly. This is all complete guesswork.

Alternatively, the rattle could merely be too much tolerance in the disengaged focus motor helical gear (doubtful). Another alternative explanation is that the rear focusing cam (in Tamron's quad-cam system - the cam which helps control the lens element that enables Tamron's relatively short minimum object distance?) might be deliberately loose in its position when disengaged. More guesswork.

In normal handling (auto or manual focusing, VC engaging/disengaging, composing and framing shots, zooming, walking around with the camera/lens slung) there's no audible rattle that I can detect.

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Howard Carson

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