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wapiti

austin, US
137 posts

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wapiti Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 21st Dec 2002
Tue 03-Feb-09 01:41 PM

Is the high ISO performance of the D700 comparable to that of the D3?

Bill in Austin, TX
"When you come to the fork in the road, take it."
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LMMiller9

Potomac, US
1168 posts

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#1. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 0

LMMiller9 Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2005
Tue 03-Feb-09 04:23 PM

Yes. It should be identical.

Larry Miller, Potomac, MD
DF/D810
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bclaff

Vancouver (WA USA not BC Canad, US
9691 posts

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#2. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 0

bclaff Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Registered since 25th Oct 2004
Tue 03-Feb-09 08:38 PM

Bill,

According to me measurements the D3 is slightly better than the D700; not enough to be a deciding factor.
See Photographic Dynamic Range at my site (URL in signature) under "Investigations".
A recent copy of this graph is also in this post: Photographic Dynamic Range


Bill

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Don Olson

Eugene, US
245 posts

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#3. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 0

Don Olson Registered since 05th Nov 2006
Tue 03-Feb-09 11:33 PM

Actually, FWIW, the latest tests between all the current 35mm size censor bodies shows that the D700 is the ISO champ if one wishes to pick numbers.

bclaff

Vancouver (WA USA not BC Canad, US
9691 posts

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#4. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 3

bclaff Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Registered since 25th Oct 2004
Tue 03-Feb-09 11:53 PM

Don,

That's not in line with my results or DxOMark.


Bill

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BassOverflow

US
419 posts

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#5. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 0

BassOverflow Registered since 07th Apr 2007
Wed 04-Feb-09 12:07 AM

Yes, very close.

~Joe in Western NC

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LMMiller9

Potomac, US
1168 posts

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#6. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 4

LMMiller9 Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2005
Wed 04-Feb-09 01:02 AM

Why would there be any difference? All of the relevant components are identical. I would suggest that the variance in testing is exactly that; variance in testing. Which is normal.

Larry Miller, Potomac, MD
DF/D810
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bclaff

Vancouver (WA USA not BC Canad, US
9691 posts

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#7. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 6

bclaff Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Registered since 25th Oct 2004
Wed 04-Feb-09 01:28 AM

Larry,

I'm willing to believe it's "sample variation" but I challenge the idea that "All the relevant components are identical".
I very much doubt it. I think the amplification circuit is different.
They may readout at a different rate. This would affect the read noise. (And the frames per second, which are clearly different.)

But as I said in my original post; not enough difference to be a deciding factor.


Bill

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Don Olson

Eugene, US
245 posts

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#8. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 4

Don Olson Registered since 05th Nov 2006
Wed 04-Feb-09 03:49 PM

>Don,
>
>That's not in line with my results or DxOMark.
>
>
>Bill
>
Bill, here are the Low Light ISO readings from DxOMark top to bottom

D700=2303, D3=2290, 5DII=1815, 1DsIII=1663, A900=1431

Now in real world usability is there a difference? Not so one could tell but you made a statement of reality not based in fact. Going by the holy numbers of DxOMark the D700 is the low light king.

Not wanting to belittle but you mention your figures. If you are off the DxO figures where a simple 2 minute check shows what their readings are, where else are your facts flawed? If the theory doesn't support the facts, maybe it's time to change the theory?

Don

bclaff

Vancouver (WA USA not BC Canad, US
9691 posts

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#9. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 8

bclaff Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Registered since 25th Oct 2004
Wed 04-Feb-09 07:16 PM

Don,

I don't put any stock into the "Low ISO" numbers from DxO; they are flawed.
I have much more faith in the Dynamic Range values, although their scale is off.


Bill

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Don Olson

Eugene, US
245 posts

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#10. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 9

Don Olson Registered since 05th Nov 2006
Thu 05-Feb-09 06:40 PM

>Don,
>
>I don't put any stock into the "Low ISO" numbers
>from DxO; they are flawed.
>I have much more faith in the Dynamic Range values, although
>their scale is off.
>
>
>Bill
>

Sorry Bill, you are waffling around. You are the one that made the statement to the OP's question on hi ISO giving DxO as a reference stating that the D3 Hi ISO was better than the D700. That was not a true statement that a quick and easy check confirmed.

Now you are saying that their testing is flawed and bring something else into the equation.
So, on one hand you state that you have made a finding and that DxO backs up your finding.
Then on the other hand you say that DxO's testing is flawed as are their results which of course makes your testing and results flawed.

The reality of the situation is that the overall difference in quality of images between a D3 or D700 for any given situation is so negligible as to be ridiculous because no one on earth can shoot to a 1/10th. in difference. One is not better than the other, they just have different applications.

bclaff

Vancouver (WA USA not BC Canad, US
9691 posts

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#11. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 10

bclaff Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Registered since 25th Oct 2004
Thu 05-Feb-09 07:24 PM

In post#2 I refer to "Photographic Dynamic Range" which is roughly equivalent to DxOs Dynamic Range; so I fail to see my negative comment about their Low ISO numbers, which you quote, as "waffling".

Mel Blackmon

US
34 posts

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#12. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 0

Mel Blackmon Registered since 30th Nov 2008
Wed 11-Feb-09 04:57 AM

Yes. If you are considering one over the other and high Iso performance is your most important criteria then the D700 is it. Because If there is a difference it's not a $2,400 difference.

Mel

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patr

US
15 posts

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#13. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 12

patr Registered since 22nd Jan 2009
Wed 11-Feb-09 08:03 PM

Here is an article that might be worth reading
http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?kbid=912610&article=012609&op=academy_new

Rohinton_Mehta

Mumbai, IN
530 posts

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#14. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 6

Rohinton_Mehta Silver Member Nikonian since 16th Feb 2002
Wed 11-Feb-09 11:26 PM

I had a chance to test both-the D3 and the D700. When the images (same subject, shot at the same time, using tripod) were brought on to the computer, I could see that the D3 was superior (by a very small margin) in noise control. As pointed out earlier, though the sensors may be the same, there seems to be some difference in the algorithms used in both the machines. In practical terms, one could say that the noise control on both these bodies are similar. If, for example, one gives 8/10 to the D3, then for the D700, it could be 7.5/10. So much for the difference!

Rohinton

Lindy

Northern California, US
1540 posts

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#15. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 0

Lindy Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Jan 2008
Fri 13-Feb-09 01:30 AM

Hi Bill,

I have had my D3 longer than my D700, but I would say that the D3 is better at handling high ISOs than the D700. However, I'm sure there have been some articles (like the one mentioned above), which will clarify this information for you.

~Lindy
a Nikonian in Northern California

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Dave V

US
68 posts

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#16. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 0

Dave V Registered since 04th Jan 2007
Sun 22-Feb-09 02:44 AM

If you look at the comparison database on the DXO website, it would appear that the D700 is slightly better than the D3. I own both cameras, and I have to tell you, that I really cannot tell the difference between the two and high ISO settings. They are both incredible cameras that are identical in their output to my pretty critical eye.

MichaelAlan

Lancaster, US
355 posts

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#17. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 16

MichaelAlan Registered since 25th Sep 2008
Mon 23-Feb-09 04:49 PM

I wrote something for my inLIGHTin Workshop about better High ISO files no matter what camera that may be worth a look-see.

http://www.inlightinworkshop.com/better-iso-files/

Comment there and let me know what you think.

-----------------------------------
Photography Workshops: www.inlightinworkshop.com

My Photography: www.ParamourPhoto.com
My Blog: www.ParamourPhoto.net

Dave V

US
68 posts

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#18. "RE: D700 High ISO" | In response to Reply # 0

Dave V Registered since 04th Jan 2007
Thu 26-Feb-09 12:47 AM

I own both cameras, and I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the results are identical under the same conditions.

I shot them both on a tripod with the same lens (24-70G AF-S) and settings, and the pictures were indistinguishable. While this does not qualify as some scientific lab test, I know what I saw, and there is no difference in ISO performance between the two. I am so confident in that fact, that I sold my D3 (I deliver it to its new owner tomorrow). I will keep my D700, and put the money that I get from the D3 towards either a D3X, or whatever smaller version Nikon makes if the 24MP sensor (D700X?).

I have also read some BS on DPReview that the D3 focuses faster than the D700. That is also absolutely false. They both have an identical AF engine and processor.

Much of this misinformation from internet "experts" is a way of inflating their ego, or just envy that Nikon delivered a camera with nearly the same features for half the price just 8 months later.

I didn't need the dual card slots, or the voice memo. The 300,000 shutter acutations vs. 150,000 is also of no concern to me, as I typically upgrade the camera whenever the newer model comes out, and rarely exceed 50,000 shots.

The pop up flash with an on board commander mode, sensor cleaner, and lighter weight was what sold me on the D700 and made the D3 expendable for me. The modular layout of the grip when I need higher speed makes the D700 a much more flexible rig.

The D3 is a great camera for a different purpose, and had the D700 been available when I bought the D3, I would have gone with the D700 straight away.

Just buy the D700, and be happy that you got a great value in a full frame camera that IMO, is superior to all the other brands!

Good Luck with whatever you decide.

Dave

G