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Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?

dhmiller

US
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dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Sun 29-Jul-12 01:58 AM

Can someone tell me the expected behavior of Auto-ISO while in manual mode giving specific settings and specific effect?
I am getting no change whatsoever in the ISO while changing aperture or shutter in Manual mode - not at all what happens with the same settings on my D800.
The ISO just never changes from the initial setting, no matter what else I change.
Thanks for any input.
Dennis

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gpoole

Farmington Hills, US
4124 posts

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#1. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 0

gpoole Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Awarded for his very generous support to the Fundrasing Campaing 2014 Writer Ribbon awarded for his article contributions for the Articles library and the eZine Nikonian since 14th Feb 2004
Sun 29-Jul-12 12:28 AM | edited Sun 29-Jul-12 12:33 AM by gpoole

A D700 in Manual mode and Auto ISO should behave the same as a D800 does. My D300 also changes ISO in Manual when I change the aperture or the shutter speed.

Edited: Oops, this paragraph is for the D800, I don't know where you find the info for a D700. Make sure you have the Maximum sensitivity set so that the ISO has room to change (pages 111-113 in the English manual). Of course verify that Auto ISO is on, you can see this above the frames remaining in the top LCD (page 113).

Gary in SE Michigan, USA.
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dhmiller

US
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#2. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 1

dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Sun 29-Jul-12 01:27 AM

Thanks Gary. All the settings are in order and enabled but when I am in Manual mode and move the shutter below the minimum speed the ISO doesn;t change at all. t does on the D800. I think I may have a problem but wanted to get some settings from someone to test (try This:...)
In any case, the D800 operates differently under the same conditions/settings, so must be something up with the 700.

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gpoole

Farmington Hills, US
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#3. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 2

gpoole Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Awarded for his very generous support to the Fundrasing Campaing 2014 Writer Ribbon awarded for his article contributions for the Articles library and the eZine Nikonian since 14th Feb 2004
Sun 29-Jul-12 02:46 AM | edited Sun 29-Jul-12 02:48 AM by gpoole

Dennis

I don't have a D700, but I believe my D300 should behave similarly. Also my D800 is at Nikon for repair, so I have no way to make a comparison.

I just verified the behavior of my D300 in Manual and Auto ISO. I just pointed the camera a lamp in my family room and started turning the dials.


  • If I decrease exposure, the ISO increases until it hits the limit. If I continue to decrease exposure the meter indicates under exposure. It doesn't matter whether I change the exposure with the aperture or shutter speed.

  • If I increase exposure the ISO decreases until it reaches the base ISO. The ISO will go below the ISO I have set, but Auto ISO will not select a Lo ISO setting. It doesn't matter whether I change the exposure with the aperture or shutter speed. If I use a small aperture I can set the shutter speed to times longer the the minimum Auto ISO setting and still see the ISO change as expected. I believe the minimum speed only applies to A and P modes.
This is how I remember it working in real shooting situations.

In Thom Hogan's D800 eBook, he says in A or P mode the camera will go below the minimum shutter speed when in hits the max ISO. In the same section he says previous cameras would just underexpose instead. He doesn't say that the manual auto ISO behavior of the D800 is different from the previous models.

If your camera exposes properly in other situations, I can't believe you have a camera problem. The operation of Auto ISO is in the firmware and uses the same sensor and camera switch settings as the non Auto ISO modes. If you have a problem only with Auto ISO in Manual mode, then I think it must somehow be a problem with your settings or a fallacy in your experiment.

I don't know the history of D700 firmware updates, but I'd strongly recommend updating to the latest version if you aren't already there. Possibly Nikon had a firmware bug that could cause improper auto ISO operation. As a retired computer programmer I cannot believe that you can have a firmware error that would only effect Auto ISO. If your firmware somehow became corrupted, then you would have a whole slew of problems.

Gary in SE Michigan, USA.
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briantilley

Paignton, UK
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#4. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 3

briantilley Gold Member Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003
Sun 29-Jul-12 06:24 AM

>This is how I remember it
>working in real shooting situations.

Yes, that's how I remember it working with the D700 I owned (and how it works now with my D300).

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

dhmiller

US
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#5. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 3

dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Sun 29-Jul-12 08:39 PM

So I upgraded to the newest firmware. Put the D700 in manual mode, set the ISO at 200, said it could go up to 3200 if needed and set the minimum shutter to 1/320. Started to move the shutter speed up and down and no change - still read 200 in the VF. Found an exposure combo that worked while pointing out a window (f/4 and 1/30) then pointed the camera towards a dark area and no change. Moved the focal point back until that combo worked again and adjusted the aperture up and down - no change.
Basically, nothing I can do in Manual mode seems to alter the ISO in any way.
Worse still, when I change the ISO to say, 1600 in the Auto ISO menu, the reading in the VF still says 200.
Something is definitely up.
Now do I send my D800 in for service (focus issues) first or the D700 for a checkup?
In either case, both will have to wait until I get back from a three-week photo trip starting next weekend.
D.

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gpoole

Farmington Hills, US
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#6. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 5

gpoole Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Awarded for his very generous support to the Fundrasing Campaing 2014 Writer Ribbon awarded for his article contributions for the Articles library and the eZine Nikonian since 14th Feb 2004
Sun 29-Jul-12 10:21 PM

One additional thought, maybe the camera is changing the ISO but not showing the change in the viewfinder. What does the simulated exposure meter show as you change the exposure? Does it continue to show proper exposure or does it indicate an improper exposure in the amount that you have changed the aperture or shutter speed?

If you take a series of images in Manual with Auto ISO, do the histograms look similar or do they indicate changing exposures? What about the resulting images, do they look about the same, or do the show changing exposures?

What ISO is shown in the meta data of the image? You should be able to view this in the optional image playback displays in the camera and with most post processing programs.

Gary in SE Michigan, USA.
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dhmiller

US
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#7. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 6

dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Sun 29-Jul-12 10:33 PM

I'll check the images themselves - didn;t actually take any. But on the D800, the ISO shown in the VF under the exact conditions jumps as expected when I change the settings or when I point the camera to a different light source. D700 doesn;t show any change at all.
Thanks for the suggestion.
D.

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espeto68

Oeiras, PT
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#8. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 7

espeto68 Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Aug 2010
Mon 30-Jul-12 08:21 AM

Just finished reading the Thom Hogan D90 book (for the 3rd time) and i think the Auto ISO only work in A and S mode, in M doesn´t change the ISO. MAybe the D700 works the same way, i'll have to check mine D700.

José

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briantilley

Paignton, UK
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#9. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 8

briantilley Gold Member Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003
Mon 30-Jul-12 08:32 AM

I don't know about the D90, but on the D700 and other current cameras Auto ISO is (or should be) usable in any exposure mode.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

dhmiller

US
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#10. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 9

dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Mon 30-Jul-12 09:15 AM

There certainly is a difference between my D700 and my D800 in this regard - the 800 does exactly what it should in Manual and the D700 does nothing.

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Patrick28

Port Jervis, US
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#11. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 9

Patrick28 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Apr 2010
Mon 30-Jul-12 12:53 PM

Check the ISO SENSITIVITY SETTINGS in the Camera Menu.
When set to OFF, the ISO remains at your preset value regardless of the light conditions. It ignores the conditions you set in its submenu.

When set to ON, it follows the limits you set in that submenu.

For Esample:
In M-Mode, I just set ISO SENSITIVITY SETTINGS to OFF,, fixed ISO 800, shot out the back door, then in the darkened entrance way. ISO remained fixed at 800. Good!

NOW! If I want the ISO to vary in manual mode, I go the the CAMERA menu and set the ISO SENSITIVITY SETTINGS to ON. Then I set the limits I want it to observe in its submenu. Now the ISO varies according to the lighting conditions, subject to the limits I set for it.

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espeto68

Oeiras, PT
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#12. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 9

espeto68 Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Aug 2010
Mon 30-Jul-12 02:27 PM

As usually, you're right Brian.
It´s supposed to work in any exposure mode.

José

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dhmiller

US
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#13. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 11

dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Mon 30-Jul-12 02:39 PM

Thanks, Patrick. This works as expected on my D800 in Manual mode but not on my D700 - I am clear on the procedure but not getting the expected results.

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dhrphoto

Laurel, US
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#14. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 0

dhrphoto Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Sep 2007
Tue 31-Jul-12 02:23 AM

Hello,
I just checked my PDF D700 Users Mannual,
here is a quote from page 108,
"In exposure modes P and A, sensitivity will only be adjusted if
underexposure would result at the shutter speed selected for
Minimum shutter speed. Slower shutter speeds may be used if
optimum exposure can not be achieved at the ISO sensitivity value
selected for Maximum sensitivity."
I hope this helps, Sincerely David.

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Full Of Beautiful Images
D.H.R.

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dhmiller

US
899 posts

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#15. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 14

dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Tue 31-Jul-12 05:18 PM

Thanks so much. I guess the lack of mention of Manual mode pretty much seals the deal, but that is not the case for the D800 (and I will check my wife's D7000), so still not entirely confident all is working well.
Dennis

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briantilley

Paignton, UK
30235 posts

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#16. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 14

briantilley Gold Member Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003
Tue 31-Jul-12 06:04 PM | edited Tue 31-Jul-12 06:05 PM by briantilley

I'm sorry, but that is NOT the answer to this puzzle.

Page 108 is just telling us what happens in P and A modes - i.e. that as it gets darker the camera will lower the shutter speed until it reaches the minimum that you have set up in the Auto ISO menu, and only then will it start to raise the ISO setting. If the ISO reaches your pre-set maximum, the shutter speed will then be reduced below the minimum.

In S and M modes, that doesn't apply.

In S, the camera will first widen the aperture, then when it reaches the lens' maximum, it will start raising the ISO. In M, the camera will (or should) start raising the ISO immediately, because it can't change the aperture or shutter speed.

Just one more thought, Dennis - I don't suppose you had the built-in flash raised or a Speedlight attached...? If so, I believe Auto ISO does not work in quite the same way.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

head4heights

Woking, UK
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#17. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 11

head4heights Silver Member Nikonian since 13th May 2012
Tue 31-Jul-12 06:16 PM

Yup.. exactly what I experienced with my D700. I needed a fixed high shutter speed and a fixed aperture (for a decent DoF) and then let the Auto ISO speed adjust within specified limits to do the rest.

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dhmiller

US
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#18. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 16

dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Tue 31-Jul-12 08:36 PM

Hi Brian. I did not use the internal flash nor a Speedlight. There is another intermittent problem in that sometimes when I change the base ISO while in the Auto-ISO menu, that change is not reflected when I go back out and look at the ISO rating in VF. So I still believe there is some sort of problem.
Will have it checked out when I get back late August.
Thanks for your input.

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dhrphoto

Laurel, US
159 posts

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#19. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 16

dhrphoto Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Sep 2007
Tue 31-Jul-12 11:09 PM

>I'm sorry, but that is NOT the answer to this puzzle.
>
>Page 108 is just telling us what happens in P and A modes -
>i.e. that as it gets darker the camera will lower the shutter
>speed until it reaches the minimum that you have set up in the
>Auto ISO menu, and only then will it start to raise the ISO
>setting. If the ISO reaches your pre-set maximum, the shutter
>speed will then be reduced below the minimum.
>
>In S and M modes, that doesn't apply.

You are certainly right Brian, Sorry Dennis, I guess I thought by ommission that it wouldn't change the ISO in manual mode. So I just got out my D700 set it to manual mode, shutter speed 160, aperture f2.8, auto ISO on, minimum shutter speed 1/30 second,( I don't think it matters on shutter speed in manual mode just telling you my settings), maximum sensitivity 3200. I pointed my camera at the kitchen light, at those settings it gave me a neutral reading, as I moved the camera away the sensitivity whent up to keep the exposure correct untial it reached the maximum. Hope This helps.

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Full Of Beautiful Images
D.H.R.

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hillsidekim

Hillside, US
549 posts

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#20. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 0

hillsidekim Silver Member Nikonian since 31st Jan 2008
Wed 01-Aug-12 02:40 PM | edited Wed 01-Aug-12 02:51 PM by hillsidekim

I just pulled my camera out and set it to manual mode. ISO auto setting on. Aiming from well lit target to darker target caused the ISO to increase up to my set 6400 at which point the exposure bar in the view finder started showing the level of underexposure. Changing either aperture of shutter speed also causes ISO to change and when it reaches 6400 again shows the amount of over or under exposure on the exposure bar in the VF. The automatically chosen ISO also shows in the view finder and you can watch it changing as you change settings or lighting conditions.
This is also how my D300 reacts.
Kim
Western burbs of Chicago

dhmiller

US
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#21. "RE: Auto-ISO in Manual mode not working?" | In response to Reply # 20

dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Wed 01-Aug-12 03:57 PM

Interesting.
Exactly what I get in A and S...
But not in Manual... nada...
Dennis

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G