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Forensic Photography

ctadin

St Louis, US
1369 posts

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ctadin Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2008
Sun 08-Apr-12 06:58 PM

Hi,
I was asked to shoot a Forensic Photography Job. The client may possibly want the printed 8x10 images in B&W, but I was planning on shooting them in color. If I have the camera set to "image authentication", would it matter if I shot them in color, but then printed them in B&W?
Whatever images I shoot for this client he also has to give a copy of the DVD to the opposing counsel.
Thanks for any helpful suggestions.

Cheryl

gmth

Lewisville, US
761 posts

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#1. "RE: Forensic Photography" | In response to Reply # 0

gmth Gold Member Awarded for sharing his excellent work and continued contribution to the forums, most notably at the Aviation forum. Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 10th Feb 2012
Sun 08-Apr-12 05:11 PM

Cheryl,
You could shoot RAW and JPEG with 'monochrome' picture control.
The RAW will be in color and the JPEG in B&W.

Regards,
Glenn Thompson

my Nikonians gallery.

walk43

Pennsylvania, US
719 posts

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#2. "RE: Forensic Photography" | In response to Reply # 1

walk43 Registered since 07th Feb 2012
Sun 08-Apr-12 05:45 PM

Or.....if you use PP then just take the color JPEG image or in either format and hit the BW button in PP to save it as a BW JPEG.

Dan
(Nikon D800,V2,Sony HX400V,Lumix ZS40)
"I don't read, I just look at pictures" - Andy Warhol

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yellowz

Nanzdietschweiler, DE
178 posts

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#3. "RE: Forensic Photography" | In response to Reply # 0

yellowz Registered since 05th Sep 2009
Sun 08-Apr-12 06:08 PM | edited Sun 08-Apr-12 06:08 PM by yellowz

I may be completely wrong here, but I recall reading that forensic photographic evidence cannot be PP'd at all or it is admissible in court. Therefore I would suggest shooting the Raw in color/JPG in monochrome as Glenn already suggested. I'm not even sure RAW images would be allowed in court as the medium used to display them may not read .nef files.

Again, may not be true, but I recall reading it somewhere. Good luck with the shoot.

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walk43

Pennsylvania, US
719 posts

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#4. "RE: Forensic Photography" | In response to Reply # 3

walk43 Registered since 07th Feb 2012
Sun 08-Apr-12 07:11 PM

I think you may be right about PP not being admissable in court. Didn't think of that.

Dan
(Nikon D800,V2,Sony HX400V,Lumix ZS40)
"I don't read, I just look at pictures" - Andy Warhol

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ajdooley

Waterloo, US
3377 posts

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#5. "RE: Forensic Photography" | In response to Reply # 0

ajdooley Gold Member Nikonian since 25th May 2006
Sun 08-Apr-12 08:22 PM

For forensic purposes, the Nikon authentication software is wonderful in that there is no "negative" to place on file for later reference, and this creates one. I am asking -- not poking at the client -- but why is B&W a requirement, other than the fact it was probably the way it was always done? I'd sure check with the state police, etc., wherever you are, or someone who does crime scene photography for the police and ask the wheres and whyfors. They will know in your jurisdiction. It seems to me that they don't want any PPing to prevent possibility of someone doing a "content aware" trick on them. But the law is often strange, and decades behind on things outside of its realm. Of course, there is always what we call the "golden Rule:" the man with the gold makes the rule.

Alan
Waterloo, IL, USA
www.proimagingmidamerica.com

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Dallaspilot

Mandeville, US
319 posts

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#6. "RE: Forensic Photography" | In response to Reply # 0

Dallaspilot Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 18th Oct 2010
Sun 08-Apr-12 11:32 PM

First, I agree with Alan that using Nikon authentication is a good idea. The software required to read Nikon authentication is a few hundred dollars, but that expenditure should fall to whomever challenges your work -- not you.
Now, since the .nef is what will be authenticated, be prepared to provide both the raw and the jpg versions. This will give comfort to the other side, so they can see that the autenticated .nef is not different from the jpg. In that way, they can prove the photo is real and not photoshop.
Last, I'd advise keeping your files for at least 3 and maybe 5 years. If you are licensed as a professional in any field related to foresics, investigations or photography, check the applicable ethics for any required holding periods.

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ctadin

St Louis, US
1369 posts

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#7. "RE: Forensic Photography" | In response to Reply # 6

ctadin Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2008
Tue 10-Apr-12 12:22 PM

Thanks everyone for the helpful suggestions.
I didn't know you had to pay for the software to read Nikon authentication. I thought I could just set my D700 to Image Authentication. Do you know where I can purchase this software?

I am not a licensed forensic photographer even though I have done this type of photography, but many years ago.

Cheryl

ctadin

St Louis, US
1369 posts

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#8. "RE: Forensic Photography" | In response to Reply # 5

ctadin Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2008
Tue 10-Apr-12 12:28 PM

I am asking
>-- not poking at the client -- but why is B&W a
>requirement, other than the fact it was probably the way it
>was always done?
I think you may be correct in that assumption. I also believe the client may think the images will have more of an impact in B&W then in color.

I'd sure check with the state police, etc.,
>wherever you are, or someone who does crime scene photography
>for the police and ask the wheres and whyfors. They will know
>in your jurisdiction. It seems to me that they don't want any
>PPing to prevent possibility of someone doing a "content
>aware" trick on them. But the law is often strange, and
>decades behind on things outside of its realm. Of course,
>there is always what we call the "golden Rule:" the
>man with the gold makes the rule.

Great suggestions, I will definitely check with my local and state police.

Cheryl

DrGoon

US
36 posts

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#9. "RE: Forensic Photography" | In response to Reply # 7

DrGoon Registered since 11th Mar 2009
Tue 10-Apr-12 07:14 PM

This site may be useful:

http://www.theiai.org/guidelines/swgit/index.php

You should try and get answers as to what supporting documentation you are required to provide - digital chain of custody, guides to reproducing processes used for image enhancement, etc.

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Dallaspilot

Mandeville, US
319 posts

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#10. "RE: Forensic Photography" | In response to Reply # 7

Dallaspilot Gold Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 18th Oct 2010
Wed 11-Apr-12 10:59 AM | edited Wed 11-Apr-12 11:06 AM by Dallaspilot

I looked it up a couple of years ago (I think at nikonusa.com or nikonpro.com) and remember that it was several hundred dollars. See note at http://www.nikonusa.com/Service-And-Support/Service-Advisories/gpailmpu/Image-Authentication-Software.html It is now an archived Product Product Number: 25738. This may in part to a vulnerability found that allowed false authentication to occur. You may still be able to get the product, though. I recall that the authentication attached only to the raw, or .nef file. Any jpgs did not carry the authentication itself. I shoot everything with authentication turned ON in the camera and thus I could always authenticate later if anything is ever challenged.
If you're working on the prosecution or plaintiff side, I think noting that you shot authenticated images should be enough notice to the folks on the other side of the case. The authentication seems to take very little space in terms of file size, so shooting authenticated is easy. If you go through the process of getting and installing the reader, I'd be interested in hearing about your experience.

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ctadin

St Louis, US
1369 posts

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#11. "RE: Forensic Photography" | In response to Reply # 10

ctadin Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2008
Wed 11-Apr-12 12:55 PM


>If you're working on the prosecution or plaintiff side, I
>think noting that you shot authenticated images should be
>enough notice to the folks on the other side of the case. The
>authentication seems to take very little space in terms of
>file size, so shooting authenticated is easy. If you go
>through the process of getting and installing the reader, I'd
>be interested in hearing about your experience.
>
I'm working for the plaintiff. I'll definitely let you know about my experience. Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

Cheryl

jhpani

Cancun, MX
413 posts

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#12. "RE: Forensic Photography" | In response to Reply # 11

jhpani Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Feb 2007
Thu 12-Apr-12 10:10 PM

Cheryl

can you shoot a whole series in color and a completely different series en b&w and get both series authenticated?

now you have all the options in color and b&w and both are accepted in court?

Humberto┬┤s, proud nikonian in Cancun, Mexico

"The important thing is never to stop questioning."~Albert Einstein

"Do, or do not. There is no 'try'."~Yoda

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Clint S

Chula Vista, US
460 posts

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#13. "RE: Forensic Photography" | In response to Reply # 12

Clint S Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Jan 2011
Fri 13-Apr-12 01:47 AM

You only need one set of original images , raw or tif. However the original images, from inception to use should have a chain of custody and control well documented.

Make duplicate copies and alter anyway necessary for the court. But what has been changed might need to be documented step - by step.

Other proceedings allow cropping, adjusting exposure, brightness,
contrast, color as normal photography functions.

Consult with the attorney for exactly what is needed.

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G