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dhmiller

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dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Tue 02-Aug-11 03:45 AM

Just got two Marumi IR filters - 700 and 820 - and wonder if anyone has had much luck with IR and their D700. Love to hear any tips/tricks. Getting some hot spots with my 24-70, and shot some green grass, which I used for a PRE WB, but that didn;t seem to help much.
Any thoughts?
Best,
DM

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Leonard62

Pa, US
4419 posts

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#1. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 0

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Tue 02-Aug-11 03:11 PM | edited Tue 02-Aug-11 03:40 PM by Leonard62

Hello Dennis,

The D700 is really not a good choice for IR but it will work. Besides the lens issue you have with your 24-70 lens, the problem will be noise because of the high ISO required to overcome the strong IR filter on the sensor. Here is a photo taken with the D700 and a Nikkor AI 35mm f2 lens and the Hoya R72 filter. I had to shoot at ISO 6400 at f2.0 and 1/60 sec in bright sunlight. It was shot just 20 min ago.

Click on image to view larger version


I had to use noise reduction in post processing for this photo.

My choice for IR photography is a D1X converted for IR use. I generally use Nikon mf prime lenses for my photos.

Edit. I just computed the light loss using this D700 and the R72 as 11 f stops. Also I didn't add this lens in the non-CPU list so the exif data will show a 24mm rather then the 35mm lens I used.

Len


Attachment#1 (jpg file)

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dhmiller

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#2. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 1

dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Tue 02-Aug-11 04:07 PM

Thanks very much, Len. I took some shots at dusk yesterday with the Marumi 700 and also 830 mm using ISO 200 and f11 and the exposure was about 4 minutes. But it was a landscape shot and that was not an issue.
My biggest problem is WB - I took a shot of all green grass and used it in the PRE setting to no avail - the pix were very red. I also tried to adjust the temp manually and again, all red.
I am also having trouble swapping the red and blue channels, as most tutorials recommend. I set the Red for 0 red and 100% blue, and I set the blue for 0 % blue and red to 100%, and the image simply swaps and becomes overly blue. Is there another step I am missing, or is that the expected result?
Also, I had heard that you could use LV to preview a shot even with the filter on - does that make any sense? Doesn;t work for me.
GUess I need a step down filter adapter so I can try the 77mm Marumis on some other lens (50mm f1.8, for exxample)

Thanks again for your note.
Best,
DM,

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Leonard62

Pa, US
4419 posts

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#3. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 2

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Wed 03-Aug-11 09:23 AM

Dennis, I have read the same tutorials you have, probably, and have never had good luck. I can set the Pre WB in my converted D1X and get the same same, none red, photo as the videos but that's as far as I get. I've been using the life Pixel tutorials but they use custom filters installed in their cameras. So I stopped trying a couple years ago and now only do a straight desaturation and level adjustment for all my IR photos. I'm very pleased with that.

The only IR photos I can get in color with nice blue sky and white foliage is if I use my Leica M8 with a deep red filter. The M8 has a very weak IR cut filter on the sensor. However this causes problems with normal photos so a hot mirror filter must be used at all times.

Len

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dhmiller

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#4. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 3

dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Wed 03-Aug-11 11:09 AM | edited Wed 03-Aug-11 11:11 AM by dhmiller

Thanks, Len. I don;t think the Marumis at 77mm are going to do much good on the 24-70, and my only other 77mm lens is an 80-400, which doesn;t seem like a good IR lens (haven;t tried it though). So I am going to return those and start over.
I can pick up a used D70 with a 28-70 f/3.5 zoom (52 mm) for not a lot of money, then maybe buy the Hoya 72 and 90... their 52mm filters are the cheapest they make.
I could then have the extra body for possible conversion.
Or I could just buy a used 28-70 f/3.5 zoom and try the Hoyas... Just want to be sure that I get a good lens for IR. A newer version of the 28-70 is well regarded for IR, but I haven;t seen anything about the 3.5 version on any of the IR lens lists.
And my only issue with conversion is deciding which filter to get - I like the 820 for sharpest B&W but would like to have the ability to get some of false color shots.

What would you recommend given the options above? What len(es) do you use most?
Thanks again for the advice.
Best,
Dennis

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Leonard62

Pa, US
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#5. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 4

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Wed 03-Aug-11 11:58 AM

I have never used a zoom lens for IR. Since my IR camera is a DX format D1X and all my photos are landscape or scenics, I normally use a manual focus AI 28mm lens but I have used a 50mm, 35mm and 20mm, all manual focus. I started that way because of setting the focus to the IR mark before I got my D1X which has had the focus adjusted for IR. Also most of my manual focus Nikkors take a 52mm filter for my other bodies. . The nice thing about using a converted body is you don't need to use a viewfinder blackening filter. That's also a big benefit when using a rangefinder camera like the Leica.

Since I have never had good luck with color IR what I do is use a non-converted body and mount two polarizing filters on the lens. One of them has to be the old linear type. You adjust both filters for minimum light through the viewfinder. I follow Bjorn's technique here.

http://www.naturfotograf.com/false_IR_D1.html

I also take UV photos and use a D1H and enlarging lenses on a bellows for that purpose. Mostly flowers using a black light for the light source.

I do have the AFS 28-70mm f2.8 which I'll try on my IR body and post my results in this thread. Unfortunately no sun at the moment, maybe later or tomorrow.

Len



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Leonard62

Pa, US
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#6. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 5

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Wed 03-Aug-11 02:39 PM | edited Thu 04-Aug-11 01:03 PM by Leonard62

I just took a couple IR photos with the AFS 28-70mm f2.8 and my IR modified D1X. ISO 125, 1/250, f5.6 at 28mm. The 2nd photo at 1/160 and f8.0

The 1st photo is a standard B&W IR photo just desaturating and optimizing the levels. WB is set to Auto.

Click on image to view larger version


The 2nd photo was also shot with the 28-70mm but was shot with Pre WB, Red and blue channel reversals (like tutorial) and then levels and saturation optimized. This is the best I can do with this process and the installed filter.
Click on image to view larger version


Len



Attachment#1 (jpg file)
Attachment#2 (jpg file)

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dhmiller

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#7. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 6

dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Wed 03-Aug-11 02:56 PM

Hi Len. I like the look of both, in fact. My big decision now is whether to buy a used D70 and use it as it or have it converted. If as is, then I can get the 28-70 and a couple of filters. Or I can get it converted, but then I have to pick only the one filter type - maybe the Hoya 72 equivalent, assuming I can make sharp B and W prints in addition to the false color stuff.
OR, I can just buy a different lens for my D700 and pick up the same filters. My 24-70 is useless, so maybe that 28-70...
You seem to be well into these techniques:
What would you do? Take money out of the equation - I want to explore IR and add its creative potential to my arsenal.
Thanks again for your help,
Best.
d

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Leonard62

Pa, US
4419 posts

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#8. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 7

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Wed 03-Aug-11 03:25 PM

Dennis,

If you get a converted body then you don't need any filters for your lenses. The filter is built in. I just used the AFS 14-24 on my converted body and it's fine.

Get the converted body and never worry about external filters again. Another big advantage is the exposures with the converted body are the same as my other bodies. And you can see through the viewfinder.

Len

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dhmiller

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#9. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 8

dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Wed 03-Aug-11 03:38 PM

Good thinking Len, and do you think the Hoya equivalent from Lens Pixel is the best all around choice?
best,
dennis

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Leonard62

Pa, US
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#10. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 9

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Wed 03-Aug-11 04:27 PM

>Good thinking Len, and do you think the Hoya equivalent from
>Lens Pixel is the best all around choice?
>best,
>dennis

I don't really know. I only have the Hoya R72 filter (89B equivalent) in a 52mm size for my prime lenses. I don't know what's in my D1X since I bought the body from KEH already converted.

Len

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dhmiller

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#11. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 10

dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Wed 03-Aug-11 04:43 PM

Okay. thanks again. Will let you know how things work out.
BEst.
d

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Cavy2

Newtown, US
6114 posts

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#12. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 11

Cavy2 Silver Member Awarded for her continuing willingness to keep on learning and to share her knowledge with others in the Nikonians spirit Nikonian since 02nd Aug 2006
Thu 04-Aug-11 12:09 AM

Hi Dennis,
I didn't have much luck with the Hoya IR72. I was frustrated with having to compose the shot, then attaching the filter. After many discussions with Lifepixel, I found a slightly used D200 and had that converted. Lifepixel said my D300's sensor blocked out too many of the infrared's rays, needing a very long exposure.
I've had good results, and found Litepixel to be very helpful/responsive.
I chose the super color filter. I like color images, and I can also convert to B&W for a more traditional result.
I've attached two examples.


Click on image to view larger version



Click on image to view larger version


http://kathycavallaro.smugmug.com/


Attachment#1 (jpg file)
Attachment#2 (jpg file)

dhmiller

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#13. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 12

dhmiller Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 19th May 2009
Thu 04-Aug-11 12:39 AM

Wow - those are great shots - I may come back with questions about your processing techniques, if you don;t mind.
I just bought a converted D70, not from LifePixel but from a guy who has done over 100 conversion, and chose a 665 filter, which I think is the equivalent of your super color.
I also happened on a Marumi RM90 filter, which I could also use if I wanted to keep out all color. Will be fun to experiment.
What lens do you have on your 200? The 200 was going to cost me a few hundred more so I went for the 70 (also have a 700 and 7000 - enough already! . BUt I need to get a lens (52 mm filter size) for it...
Anyway, great shots. If you have a sec and want to describe your processing workflow, I'd love to hear about it.
Best,
Dennis

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Leonard62

Pa, US
4419 posts

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#14. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 12

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Thu 04-Aug-11 12:57 PM

Very fine Cathy. If you like color you made the right choice. Your photos also show your creative and artistic side. Nice job.

Len

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Cavy2

Newtown, US
6114 posts

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#15. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 13

Cavy2 Silver Member Awarded for her continuing willingness to keep on learning and to share her knowledge with others in the Nikonians spirit Nikonian since 02nd Aug 2006
Thu 04-Aug-11 01:33 PM

Hi Dennis,
Thanks for your kind comments! I was told by Lifepixel that the D70 would be a good choice. I was luccky with my D200 find. I use my 18-200 VR lens most of the time. The camera was calibrated for the 18-55 lens, but I seem to get better results with the 18-200.

I took an on line course from Deb Sandidge. Lots of valuable feedback. I highly recommend her book Digital Infrared Photography Photo Workshop. There's lots of processing techniques as well as creative options to shoot.

I found setting a custom WB on green grass makes a big difference. I process RAW files in NX2 save as a TIFF file, then pull into photoshop for channel swapping. I made an action of my channel swap.

It's been so much fun to play with this. Deb also had us try IR on portraits. Very interesting results. Check out the eyelashes on this example of my daughter and cat.

Have fun!

http://kathycavallaro.smugmug.com/

Click on image to view larger version


Attachment#1 (jpg file)

Cavy2

Newtown, US
6114 posts

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#16. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 14

Cavy2 Silver Member Awarded for her continuing willingness to keep on learning and to share her knowledge with others in the Nikonians spirit Nikonian since 02nd Aug 2006
Thu 04-Aug-11 01:34 PM | edited Thu 04-Aug-11 01:35 PM by Cavy2

Hi Len,
I appreciate your encouraging comments!
Beautiful shots in your gallery. I see you're from PA. I'm originally from Bucks County. Miss that beautiful area!!


http://kathycavallaro.smugmug.com/

Leonard62

Pa, US
4419 posts

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#17. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 16

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009
Thu 04-Aug-11 02:41 PM

Kathy, the portrait of your daughter is glamourous. It's stunning. I would not have thought of shooting an IR portrait. And those eyelashes. Wow.

I love taking flower photos and am a member at Longwood Gardens. I live in Montgomery County just one mile from Warminster. Yes it's a beautiful area. I've been here since 1984. I'm originally from Massachusetts.

Len

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Dark Messiah

Wymondham, UK
94 posts

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#18. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 17

Dark Messiah Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Feb 2009
Sat 06-Aug-11 09:20 AM

Beautiful photo Cathy.

What a clever use of IR.

Thanks for sharing.

Kind regards

G

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Cavy2

Newtown, US
6114 posts

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#19. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 17

Cavy2 Silver Member Awarded for her continuing willingness to keep on learning and to share her knowledge with others in the Nikonians spirit Nikonian since 02nd Aug 2006
Sat 06-Aug-11 10:44 PM

HI Len,
Thanks so much for your comment.
I know Warminster will, my sister lives in Warrington. I need to visit Longwood Gardens one of my trips back. Also, on my list is the Eastern State Penitentiary. I've seen some amazing shots from there.


http://kathycavallaro.smugmug.com/

Cavy2

Newtown, US
6114 posts

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#20. "RE: D700 for IR" | In response to Reply # 19

Cavy2 Silver Member Awarded for her continuing willingness to keep on learning and to share her knowledge with others in the Nikonians spirit Nikonian since 02nd Aug 2006
Sat 06-Aug-11 10:47 PM

Hi Gareth,
Thanks for having a look and your comment.
Had a look at your gallery. Beautiful shots, especially love the sleeping baby raccoon.


http://kathycavallaro.smugmug.com/

G