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YN-565 or Nikon's own?

adinis

UK
216 posts

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adinis Gold Member Nikonian since 21st Jun 2012
Wed 16-Jan-13 08:00 PM

I asked this question in D3000 forum and got a bit of help but was also adviced to come to this forum for more help. I own a D3000 and my wife and just had a baby, i want to start taking pictures of our newborn but i dont like the D3000 flash to fire directly into my babies face. I also can not not use flash as i dont have the right light in my apartment. I have been looking at the YN-565ex since it is fully automatic and available flash zoom and the fact that i can direct the flash away from my babies face. For a price between $145-$178 US and good reviews it seem like a great buy. On the D3000 forum i was advices of the SB400 but it does not have a rotating head to direct flash away from my baby so i dont think it will work for what i need. I do understand that the YN-565 does not support CLS but i dont seen myself using this feature at all. Hopefully i can get a little more insight in this forum on which speedlight to go with. Thank you all for the great advice.

D7200 | Nikon 35mm f/1.8 | Nikon 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR | Tamron 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 D |
Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 Di | Tamron 150-600mm f/5.6-6.3 Di


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sl33py

Seattle, US
340 posts

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#1. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 0

sl33py Silver Member Nikonian since 23rd Apr 2008
Wed 16-Jan-13 07:28 PM | edited Fri 18-Jan-13 02:06 AM by sl33py

I personally prefer the Nikon range of speedlights. I've not used the 565ex or similar to compare, so i'm no expert.

the SB400 can work if you make a small bounce card - just need some paper and tape. it also can aim up to provide some bounce off the ceiling:


also check out Ken Rockwell's "one cent softbox":
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/sb400.htm

for your price range you can get a SB600 or maybe even a SB800 (one of my favorites) for a couple bucks more - used that is.

just having a similar discussion w/ another forum member in this part of the forum. Take a look at it - he was looking for an inexpensive flash and i think most of the recommendations and feedback could apply to you.

With your D3000, you could also try off camera flash w/ a cord! that would get it off axis and avoid firing into your newborn's face. Give you a lot of flexibility while still allowing you to use the less expensive 400 or 600!

let us know what you get and GL!

rob

adinis

UK
216 posts

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#2. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 1

adinis Gold Member Nikonian since 21st Jun 2012
Wed 16-Jan-13 07:57 PM

ahh so the flash does move, thats good. Now my choice has become a bit more dificult. Will wait for a fe more suggestions and maybe sleep on it. Thanks again.

D7200 | Nikon 35mm f/1.8 | Nikon 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR | Tamron 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 D |
Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 Di | Tamron 150-600mm f/5.6-6.3 Di


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blw

Richmond, US
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#3. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 0

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004
Thu 17-Jan-13 09:00 AM

Yonguo has a reputation for variable quality. Some models don't seem very reliable, some are fine. I don't know which are which. (Or even if they've remedied the problem.)

I can say that for far less money than Nikon SB-700, both Sigma and Nissin offer nice units, namely the Sigma EF-610 DG (not the EF-610 DG Super) and the Nissin Di-466. Both about $150 and both have both have heads that rotate in two axes. Neither can act as either remote or commander in CLS.

I have a moderate amount of experience with Sigma flashes (including one that I own) and they have been reliable and accurate at metering. Perhaps not *quite* as accurate as my Nikon flashes (of which I have six), but call it 97 vs 99.

The other alternative, also suggested above, is a used SB-600. Half of my Nikon units are SB-600's, and truthfully I use one of them significantly more often than I use my SB-900. The 900 is much bigger and despite being my only CLS commander, having more power and more flexibility, most of the time I just need some bounce flash. So I reach into the bag and out comes one of the SB-600 and I'm usually set for the day. (The Sigma that I own is an EM-140 macro unit, so it doesn't compete for most "regular" photography.)

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Chris Platt

Newburg, US
481 posts

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#4. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 3

Chris Platt Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Sep 2012
Thu 17-Jan-13 01:12 PM

I've owned two Sigma flashes and found them to work very well. They also took a lot of abuse/drops without any apparent damage. I still have them. I switched and stayed with Nikon when I ran into compatibility problems as I upgraded bodies, but Sigma seems to be doing a better job these days maintaining compatibility (with the exception of the super model and the D7000).

The SB 600 is a great suggestion, but they seem difficult to find in the Yonguo price range.

Personally, I think I'd opt for a Sigma or Nissin over the SB-400. They're more powerful and flexible for directing the flash where you want it.

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adinis

UK
216 posts

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#5. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 4

adinis Gold Member Nikonian since 21st Jun 2012
Thu 31-Jan-13 05:32 PM

Well after a long thinking process I decided get the YN-565EX, I just received it this past Tuesday and I currently tinkering with it. It is a big improvement over the $60 Walmart flash. Have taken a few pictures and still trying to get the hang of it and trying to make it work with the limited light in my apartment. I am also looking over all the links to get more information on how properly take pictures using flash.

D7200 | Nikon 35mm f/1.8 | Nikon 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR | Tamron 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 D |
Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 Di | Tamron 150-600mm f/5.6-6.3 Di


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MEMcD

US
31629 posts

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#6. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 5

MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007
Fri 01-Feb-13 03:36 AM

Hi Antonio,

Thanks for sharing your decision with us.

Please let us know how well the YN-565EX performs for you.

Good Luck and Enjoy your Nikons!

Best Regards,
Marty

adinis

UK
216 posts

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#7. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 6

adinis Gold Member Nikonian since 21st Jun 2012
Sun 03-Feb-13 02:42 PM

I have started to look over the strobist.blogspot.com but all it goes over is off-camera flash and different setups, I can't seem to find anything in regards to the flash being on the camera itself. So far my settings ISO 100, A f5.6, S 1/600 and flash on Manual at either 1/4 (+0.3/0.7) or 1/8(+0.3/0.7) and at an angle (sometimes the angle will change based on where my subject is) . These settings are based on the lack of light in my apartment even with all lights turned on. What I have noticed is that with camera settings I mentioned it shows over exposed but after taking the picture it seems to look ok. Not sure if this is normal as I am still tinkering with the flash and learning as I go.

D7200 | Nikon 35mm f/1.8 | Nikon 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR | Tamron 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 D |
Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 Di | Tamron 150-600mm f/5.6-6.3 Di


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RABaker

Sunnyvale, US
731 posts

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#8. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 7

RABaker Registered since 30th Sep 2003
Sun 03-Feb-13 05:23 PM

"ISO 100, A f5.6, S 1/600"

Shutter 1/600? ...or was it a typo and you meant 1/60?


Richard

MEMcD

US
31629 posts

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#9. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 7

MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007
Sun 03-Feb-13 10:03 PM

Hi Antonio,

First, the maximum sync speed of your D3000 is 1/200th sec. If the shutter speed is set any faster the Speedlight will fire after the second shutter curtain starts closing which will project a shadow on the image sensor.

How are you determining that the image "show over exposed" before you capture the image?

Have you considered trying TTL flash mode?
Good Luck and Enjoy your Nikons!

Best Regards,
Marty

adinis

UK
216 posts

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#10. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 8

adinis Gold Member Nikonian since 21st Jun 2012
Sun 03-Feb-13 11:51 PM

>"ISO 100, A f5.6, S 1/600"
>
>Shutter 1/600? ...or was it a typo and you meant 1/60?
>
>
>Richard

Click on image to view larger version


Attachment#1 ( file)

D7200 | Nikon 35mm f/1.8 | Nikon 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR | Tamron 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 D |
Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 Di | Tamron 150-600mm f/5.6-6.3 Di


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adinis

UK
216 posts

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#11. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 9

adinis Gold Member Nikonian since 21st Jun 2012
Mon 04-Feb-13 12:02 AM | edited Mon 04-Feb-13 12:38 AM by adinis

>Hi Antonio,
>
>First, the maximum sync speed of your D3000 is 1/200th sec.
>If the shutter speed is set any faster the Speedlight will
>fire after the second shutter curtain starts closing which
>will project a shadow on the image sensor.
>
>How are you determining that the image "show over
>exposed" before you capture the image?
>
>Have you considered trying TTL flash mode?
>Good Luck and Enjoy your Nikons!

I am sorry I meant 1/160. Correct as I am composing the picture my over/under exposure (via viewfinder) shows over exposed before I take the picture. As stated before even with those settings, I personally think the pictures come out pretty good, but I might be wrong.

Click on image to view larger version


I have tried TTL and the camera does show a dead center exposure, but I end up with a shutter speed of 4 seconds or more. That is a nightmare trying to do it handheld. I do have a tripod but all the pictures I have been taken are spontaneous so I have been using these settings. I would appreciate everyone's inputs on those pictures of my daughter and if the settings are acceptable.


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Attachment#1 (jpg file)
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Attachment#3 (jpg file)

D7200 | Nikon 35mm f/1.8 | Nikon 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR | Tamron 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 D |
Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 Di | Tamron 150-600mm f/5.6-6.3 Di


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blw

Richmond, US
28713 posts

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#12. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 11

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004
Mon 04-Feb-13 12:38 AM | edited Mon 04-Feb-13 12:41 AM by blw

> as I am composing the picture my over/under exposure (via viewfinder) shows over exposed before I take the picture

That is showing you the ambient exposure, the one that does not include the flash. In this case you appear to have gotten completely lucky, since the exposure shown in the screen snap shows at least two stops underexposure. Yes, the exposures you posted above are pretty close - they are a bit underexposed to my taste, but not much. That means that the flash gave you almost but not quite enough to compensate for the under exposure of the ambient.

Edit: I see that you were in TTL, not manual, on the flash. That's why the exposure is very close - the flash metered the scene, discovered that the ambient was two stops underexposed (or whatever it was) and it set the flash to light the scene appropriately. I think it was a little short, but not much.

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adinis

UK
216 posts

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#13. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 12

adinis Gold Member Nikonian since 21st Jun 2012
Mon 04-Feb-13 01:13 PM

>> as I am composing the picture my over/under exposure
>(via viewfinder) shows over exposed before I take the picture
>
>That is showing you the ambient exposure, the one that does
>not include the flash. In this case you appear to have gotten
>completely lucky, since the exposure shown in the screen snap
>shows at least two stops underexposure. Yes, the exposures
>you posted above are pretty close - they are a bit
>underexposed to my taste, but not much. That means that the
>flash gave you almost but not quite enough to compensate for
>the under exposure of the ambient.
>
>Edit: I see that you were in TTL, not manual, on the flash.
>That's why the exposure is very close - the flash metered the
>scene, discovered that the ambient was two stops underexposed
>(or whatever it was) and it set the flash to light the scene
>appropriately. I think it was a little short, but not much.

I was actually in manual mode on the flash, I tried to set the flash on TTL and meter the picture but I would end up with a shutter speed of 4 seconds or more. With TTL I would need to used a tripod but as I stated all of these pictures were spontaneous. Bellow you can see the histogram of both pictures and if I am reading them correctly the exposure on both were dead on center. Anyone is welcome to correct me if I am wrong.


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Attachment#1 (jpg file)
Attachment#2 (jpg file)

D7200 | Nikon 35mm f/1.8 | Nikon 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR | Tamron 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 D |
Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 Di | Tamron 150-600mm f/5.6-6.3 Di


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blw

Richmond, US
28713 posts

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#14. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 13

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004
Mon 04-Feb-13 03:17 PM

> I was actually in manual mode on the flash, I tried to set the flash on TTL and meter the picture but I would end up with a shutter speed of 4 seconds or more.

Several things here.

First, it's obvious that you have set either slow flash sync or rear sync (which implies slow sync). This is a camera setting. Otherwise, your maximum shutter speed with flash defaults to 1/60th. (This assumes that the camera can tell that flash is engaged, which seems true since I see that it knew that flash fired in the EXIF.) You've changed something - I'd set it back to default for now.

Second, you need to know that you have two entirely separate meter readings occurring with flash. One is the ambient exposure - that's what you are seeing in the viewfinder. And it's what is seeming to drive you to 4 sec exposure. It's pretty dark here: 4 sec, f/5.6, ISO 100 is EV 3, which is a couple of stops less than "night time home interiors." When you set regular flash mode (I don't know how to do it on this camera), you will see drastic underexposure. From 4 seconds to 1/60th is eight full stops. Big problem with no flash - you'd get a completely black frame. But with flash, not so much. Because the second meter reading is done after the shutter is released and the lens stops down. Once that happens, the flash fires a pre-flash metering pulse, and uses the return from that to set the TTL (or TTL-BL, but let's leave that for the moment) exposure. The TTL adjusts the power output to expose the subject "properly" - which might be quite a bit, as it would be in this case.

When you set the flash exposure mode (on the flash) to manual, it probably is just firing at full power unless you've done the rather laborious calculations of focus distance, guide number, etc and then set the manual output for correct exposure. I know how to do it, but I never do since it's such a pain in the lower posterior. So since you probably fired at full power, you were just lucky that the exposure came out nicely.

Flash is a particularly complex subject once you get past the almost trivial "pop it up and press the button" - but once you learn it, it becomes a very powerful tool for lighting a subject the way you want it to be lit, and it allows you to get what you want, not just what happens to be available. It's not a small difference: it's an active role, not a passive one.

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Scotty

Ely, Cambridgeshire, UK
5191 posts

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#15. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 11

Scotty Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Feb 2002
Tue 05-Feb-13 06:00 AM

I also notice that you have the WB set to cloudy - this could give a warm colour cast to the shots - if you haven't done this deliberately it may be worth setting to flash or Auto...

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blw

Richmond, US
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#16. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 15

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004
Tue 05-Feb-13 07:33 AM

Good catch. Setting the white balance to daylight is also a good choice, since the flashes are balanced to match daylight.

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adinis

UK
216 posts

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#17. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 15

adinis Gold Member Nikonian since 21st Jun 2012
Wed 06-Feb-13 01:15 AM

>I also notice that you have the WB set to cloudy - this could
>give a warm colour cast to the shots - if you haven't done
>this deliberately it may be worth setting to flash or Auto...

I have it set to cloudy after reading http://neilvn.com/tangents/flash-photography-essentials/. I thought it made sense his train of thought as to why he does so.

Also I did realized that the ambient exposure on the shot I provided was underexposed and not overexposed, I thought anything on the right of - 0- was overexposed. I have also just realized I can compensate for the over/under exposure (silly beginners mistake). I have had this camera for over a year now but I am just recently starting to use it and tinkering with the different settings due to the birth of my baby girl, where as before I would just take pictures outdoors and in full Auto. I guess this is how I will actually learn how to properly use my camera. . Also getting help for the great members here, but yeah using flash will require a great deal of practice.

D7200 | Nikon 35mm f/1.8 | Nikon 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR | Tamron 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 D |
Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 Di | Tamron 150-600mm f/5.6-6.3 Di


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blw

Richmond, US
28713 posts

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#18. "RE: YN-565 or Nikon's own?" | In response to Reply # 17

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004
Wed 06-Feb-13 06:14 AM

> cloudy

I'm a big fan of Neil van Neikirk's - in fact I would say that I learned flash from his writing - but I don't remember reading this particular item and I didn't see it on the page to which you linked. At any rate, if it provides the results you want, great. I think it was pointed out because it's an unusual setting and later could be the source of some unusual results if you're not aware of it.

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