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Off camera wireless trigger with TTL-BL functioning?

Cerulean

La Paz, BO
287 posts

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Cerulean Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Oct 2009
Fri 09-Nov-12 05:00 PM

Is there a wireless off camera trigger (non-cable) that gives TTL-BL for the Nikon D600, D4 ?


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wkilburg

Yorkville, US
93 posts

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#1. "RE: Off camera wireless trigger with TTL-BL functioning?" | In response to Reply # 0

wkilburg Registered since 03rd Apr 2011
Fri 09-Nov-12 04:59 PM

Pocket wizard CTL triggers do. TT5 specifically. Need another TT5 or TT1 to mount on the camera and trigger it.

-----------------
Wally

gpoole

Farmington Hills, US
4124 posts

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#2. "RE: Off camera wireless trigger with TTL-BL functioning?" | In response to Reply # 0

gpoole Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Awarded for his very generous support to the Fundrasing Campaing 2014 Writer Ribbon awarded for his article contributions for the Articles library and the eZine Nikonian since 14th Feb 2004
Fri 09-Nov-12 05:08 PM

I'm assuming you are talking of triggering the camera not the flash with a wireless remote. Any remote trigger should fire the camera, If you are using flash, the camera will in turn trigger the flash. When using a remote release, the camera should behave exactly the same as if you pushed the shutter release button.

Anytime you use a remote release you should make sure the viewfinder eyepiece is covered. This prevents stray light from affecting exposure and possibly showing up in your image. On the D4 you can use the eyepiece shutter to do this. I suspect the D600 will have a cover to slide over the eyepiece, but a hat or piece of dark cloth will work just as well,

Gary in SE Michigan, USA.
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Cerulean

La Paz, BO
287 posts

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#3. "RE: Off camera wireless trigger with TTL-BL functioning?" | In response to Reply # 2

Cerulean Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Oct 2009
Fri 09-Nov-12 05:28 PM | edited Fri 09-Nov-12 05:29 PM by Cerulean

Hi Gary, thanks again for answering my many questions. No, I was thinking of holding my camera in one hand and the flash in the other and triggering the flash but getting TTL-BL

I have some Radiopoppers and also lots of the Pocketwizard 2's

Since none of these triggers have the many contacts as on top of the Nikon cameras I am assuming that much camera-flash information is not exchanged. (Is there information that makes a difference if it makes it or not?)

What solutions do you know about?

Thanks again

Migs


“ Your first 10000 photographs are your worst." – Henri Cartier-Bresson

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gkaiseril

Chicago, US
6739 posts

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#4. "RE: Off camera wireless trigger with TTL-BL functioning?" | In response to Reply # 3

gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005
Fri 09-Nov-12 07:17 PM | edited Fri 09-Nov-12 07:24 PM by gkaiseril

I am mot sure if you can can true TTL-BL when in the Commander/Master mode. But you could simulate it.

The Remotes do not have a TTL-BL mode available.

Your camera would need to be in the matrix or center weighted metering mode to get the TTL-BL to be active.

I see not mention of TTL-BL when a unit is in a Master or Remote mode, so it might not be possible. Remember for the TTL-BL to be computed the rear lighting of the subject from behind is measured and the pre-flash is used to compute the fill flash requirement. In the Master mode there is no pre-flash of the master while the remotes are pre-flashing for exposure. The pre-flash of the master is before the exposure flash of the remotes. This would mean there is no way for the Master to compute the needed fill flash if any remote unit were behind the subject.

As to the contacts. RadioPopper does not directly connect to any Nikon or Canon Speedlight. RadioPoppers use an induction coil to detect the flash charges on the Master and use an IR led to transmit the signal to the remotes. PW with their line of MiniTT1 and FlexTT5 do have all the contacts that the Nikon camera has. I see no mention of TTL-BL with the FlexTT5 so PW might not have programmed this into their product.

George
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gpoole

Farmington Hills, US
4124 posts

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#5. "RE: Off camera wireless trigger with TTL-BL functioning?" | In response to Reply # 3

gpoole Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Awarded for his very generous support to the Fundrasing Campaing 2014 Writer Ribbon awarded for his article contributions for the Articles library and the eZine Nikonian since 14th Feb 2004
Fri 09-Nov-12 07:25 PM

I don't think any wireless flash control will do TTL-BL, I think it would be just TTL. With careful picking of aperture, shutter speed, and ISO you could probably get the balance you need.

Because your flash is only a short distance from your camera you could use a corded connection instead. Nikon sells the SC-28 and SC-29 hot shoe extension cords. There is also the out of production SC-17. All these cords allow the flash to function as if it were in the hot shoe.

Gary in SE Michigan, USA.
Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera.
D4, D810, D300 (720nm IR conversion), D90, F6, FM3a (black), FM2n (chrome)
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Cerulean

La Paz, BO
287 posts

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#6. "RE: Off camera wireless trigger with TTL-BL functioning?" | In response to Reply # 4

Cerulean Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Oct 2009
Fri 09-Nov-12 07:28 PM

I have never considered using the Master/Commander units and settings. This for the following reasons:

I don't like IR connections since some object might block them.

I have been to several workshops and I have never seen someone sacrifice Pocketwizards for the Nikon or Canon flash sync systems.

I also think Radiopopper is radio based, since different units are made for US and Euro markets due to band constraints.

Having a radio based connection allows a much farther distance between trigger and receiver.

That said I thank you for the idea of the MiniTT1 and FlexTT5. I will try them.


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Arkayem

Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
6109 posts

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#7. "RE: Off camera wireless trigger with TTL-BL functioning?" | In response to Reply # 0

Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter Member
Fri 09-Nov-12 11:52 PM

>Is there a wireless off camera trigger (non-cable) that gives
>TTL-BL for the Nikon D600, D4 ?

No, there is no way to use the TTL-BL mode with the flash controlled wirelessly.

The reason for this can only be understood once you understand the way TTL-BL works. TTL-BL uses the internal camera light meter to measure the brightness of entire frame (or most of the frame when using Center Weighted metering), and sets the flash power based on the distance to the subject as reported by the lens, to make the subject brightness equal to the overall frame brightness.

If the flash is off-camera, there is no way for the system to know how far it is positioned from the subject. Also, the system has no way to know which way the flash is pointed. Therefore, the system has no way to determine how much flash power is needed to balance the subject to the background.

Consequently, only regular TTL is available when using speedlights off-camera - except - when using a flash cable. TTL-BL is available when using a flash cable, because the flash thinks it is still mounted in the hot shoe. However, to get proper exposures you have to be very careful to keep the flash at the same distance to the subject as the camera, and keep the flash pointed generally in the same direction as the camera. If either of these two things is neglected, the flash power is usually set too high, overexposing the subject.

This also explains why TTL-BL doesn't work well when bouncing the flash or using a bounce card. When the flash is not pointed directly at the subject, the distance to the subject is not used. Instead, the monitor preflash is used, and that is very unreliable in bright ambient conditions.

Russ
Retired Professional Photographer
Nikonian Moderator
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

Cerulean

La Paz, BO
287 posts

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#8. "RE: Off camera wireless trigger with TTL-BL functioning?" | In response to Reply # 7

Cerulean Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Oct 2009
Sat 10-Nov-12 12:14 AM

Hi Russ

Many details that I had no idea about. Especially about the unknown flash to subject distance. I guess the bright side is that TTL is already great.

So I guess the PocketWizard FLEXTT5 for Nikon is not much more than a trigger?

Migs


“ Your first 10000 photographs are your worst." – Henri Cartier-Bresson

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Arkayem

Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
6109 posts

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#9. "RE: Off camera wireless trigger with TTL-BL functioning?" | In response to Reply # 8

Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter Member
Sat 10-Nov-12 12:29 AM

>Hi Russ
>
>Many details that I had no idea about. Especially about the
>unknown flash to subject distance. I guess the bright side is
>that TTL is already great.
>
>So I guess the PocketWizard FLEXTT5 for Nikon is not much more
>than a trigger?
>
>Migs

I have never used the PW FlEXTT5, so I don't know, but I don't see any way it can work properly if the flash is in TTL-BL mode, since the power calculations are done in the camera, and the system assumes the flash and camera are at the same distance to the subject and pointed in the same direction. Also, if the flash is not in the hot shoe of the camera, something has to trick it into thinking it IS in the hot shoe in order for TTL-BL to be selected.

Russ
Retired Professional Photographer
Nikonian Moderator
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

hujiie

US
582 posts

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#10. "RE: Off camera wireless trigger with TTL-BL functioning?" | In response to Reply # 9

hujiie Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Apr 2009
Sun 11-Nov-12 01:09 PM

Russ:

I always enjoy your explanations. Your assumption is right and Flex TT5 system can not work with TTL-BL. Only regular TTL.

www.hitoshiujiie.com/photography.html

Arkayem

Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
6109 posts

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#11. "RE: Off camera wireless trigger with TTL-BL functioning?" | In response to Reply # 10

Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter Member
Sun 11-Nov-12 01:21 PM

>Russ:
>
>I always enjoy your explanations. Your assumption is right
>and Flex TT5 system can not work with TTL-BL. Only regular
>TTL.

Thanks for the confirmation on that!

And for the kind feedback!

Russ
Retired Professional Photographer
Nikonian Moderator
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

G