Z mount adapter
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
|
-
-
#2. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 0
benveniste Nikonian since 25th Nov 2002Fri 24-Aug-18 11:38 AMSo If you put an FX lens On a Z body, using the adapter, are you going to lose corners or something else?
Optically, you shouldn't lose corners or anything else. The lenses don't care if the light travels through the air inside the adapter or the air inside a mirror box. The only real potential for an issue is with tolerances or play in the additional mechanical connection. However, the FTZ adapter doesn't include an autofocus motor, so autofocus operation is only supported for lenses with their own built-in motor (AF-I, AF-S, AF-P, etc).
Nikon claimed that the extra lenses were compatible on FX bodies but in reality they really aren’t, as we all know.
Um, which extra lenses? I'm afraid we don't all know. Nikon's made many lenses which aren't compatible on FX bodies.- Lenses not designed for 35mm film cameras, such as large format, industrial Nikkors and eye glass lenses.
- Unconverted Pre AI lenses (except for the Nikon Df)
- Old wide angles which required mirror lockup
- Lenses for the F3AF
- IX-Nikkors for the Pronea APS cameras
"There is no real magic in photography, just the sloppy intersection of physics and art." — Kirk Tuck-
#11. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 2
Strada_Facendo Nikonian since 06th Jun 2017Sun 02-Sep-18 06:21 AM>
>Nikon's made many lenses which aren't compatible on FX
>bodies. <...>
>Old wide angles which required mirror
>lockup
But they will be compatible with the Z cameras. Nikon does not say so, but the FT1 could mount pre-AI lenses so the FTZ should as well."Sharpness is a bourgeois concept"; Henri Cartier-Bresson
-
#12. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 11
ericbowles Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Sun 02-Sep-18 07:25 AMThat's correct. The FTZ adapter has contacts but not physical connections for aperture and AF. So you will have to manually set Aperture and it won't be communicated to the camera, but the camera should be able to correctly expose the image using shutter speed and ISO as variables. There is likely to be some impact on metering - particularly matrix metering which considers aperture - so it's very possible you will need to use the histogram or a light meter to correct exposure. But unlike most cameras, the FTZ does not have an aperture lever that can get hung up on pre-Ai lenses.
AF will be manual - but that's the only option on older lenses anyway. With focus peaking, manual focus will be easier.Eric Bowles
Director - Nikonians Academy
Nikonians Team Moderator
My Gallery
Workshops and Private Instruction
Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera -
#15. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 11
benveniste Nikonian since 25th Nov 2002Mon 03-Sep-18 04:55 PMBut they will be compatible with the Z cameras. Nikon does not say so, but the FT1 could mount pre-AI lenses so the FTZ should as well.
In fact, Nikon explicitly states that non-AI lenses cannot be used with the Mount Adapter FTZ. But Nikon tends to be conservative on such things, so it may well work in practice. With the FT-1, they gave a laundry list of compatible and incompatible lenses but were silent on non-AI lenses.
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/accessory/camera/ftz/spec.htm
https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/acil/lenses/mount_adapter_ft1/compatibility.htm
"There is no real magic in photography, just the sloppy intersection of physics and art." — Kirk Tuck-
#20. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 15
Strada_Facendo Nikonian since 06th Jun 2017Tue 04-Sep-18 03:33 AMYes, they say the FTZ can't use non-AI lenses, but the Df can, and the F5 and F6 can be modified so they can, and the only change is so the aperture-sensing tab can be folded out of the way, and the FTZ does not have an aperture-sensing tab.
It would not be the first time Nikon has provided incorrect information about what its products can and cannot do."Sharpness is a bourgeois concept"; Henri Cartier-Bresson
-
-
#3. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 0
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
#4. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 0
Maybe that's purely a camera question, but a related question relates to angles and PD AF -- old DSLR bodies are intended to focus at less than F8, newer ones up to F8, none higher. Does the on-sensor PD focus work at F16, or does it open and stop down as each focus event occurs (and what happens in burst)?
Linwood
Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://www.captivephotons.com
-
#5. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 4
robwig Nikonian since 25th Nov 2007Sat 25-Aug-18 02:22 PMPer DP Review, the Z7 will focus at the selected aperture up to f/5.6
After f/5.6, the aperture doesn't stop down until shutter release is pressed.
See the following video at approximately 6:45
The review was based on a pre-production camera, so it could change.
Bob-
#6. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 5
ericbowles Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Fri 31-Aug-18 08:00 AM | edited Fri 31-Aug-18 08:01 AM by ericbowlesI heard the same thing - The Z6/7 will focus using actual aperture selected up to f/5.6, and beyond that point focus at f/5.6 or with the lens wide open if higher.
I suspect with ultrafast lenses AF could hunt or vary with small movements, so avoiding focus using f/0.95 might be more practical if you are shooting at f/4 anyway. If you have a fast lens in dim light conditions, you still might focus first wide open or nearly so and then change the aperture for improved accuracy.Eric Bowles
Director - Nikonians Academy
Nikonians Team Moderator
My Gallery
Workshops and Private Instruction
Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera
-
#7. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 0
Having just typed this a question pops up. Can the Z bodies be fine tuned to specific lenses?
I would think so but have not examined the fine print as I'm not in the market until it has been in the market for many months to see what issues may pop up....Mike
Because Attitude is Everything
......LiveSTRONG....Mike
Visit: http://msohio.smugmug.com
-
#8. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 7
ericbowles Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Fri 31-Aug-18 10:26 AMGood question.
In theory, Contrast Detect AF used in LiveView does not need fine tuning. But if you are using a hybrid system using Phase Detect for speed - such as with the Nikon and Sony cameras - it might need fine tuning. On the other hand, if it blends the two systems - PD for initial focus and CD for final focus - there is no need for fine tuning.Eric Bowles
Director - Nikonians Academy
Nikonians Team Moderator
My Gallery
Workshops and Private Instruction
Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera-
#9. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 8
Ferguson Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004Fri 31-Aug-18 11:40 AM>In theory, Contrast Detect AF used in LiveView does not need
>fine tuning. But if you are using a hybrid system using Phase
>Detect for speed - such as with the Nikon and Sony cameras -
>it might need fine tuning. On the other hand, if it blends
>the two systems - PD for initial focus and CD for final focus
>- there is no need for fine tuning.
How does PF work without a mirror, where are the sensors, or is it somehow using the imaging sensor for PD also?
Linwood
Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://www.captivephotons.com-
#10. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 9
ericbowles Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Fri 31-Aug-18 11:57 AMI suspect Nikon is using the sensor for phase detect AF, because there is no room for a translucent mirror. That would eliminate the sensor on the bottom of the mirror box. Using PF on the sensor, some of the sensors are designated for focus.
From the Nikon USA site:
"The Z 7 and Z 6 are equipped with a new backside illumination Nikon FX-format CMOS sensor with built-in focal-plane phase-detection AF pixels, and the latest image-processing engine, EXPEED 6."Eric Bowles
Director - Nikonians Academy
Nikonians Team Moderator
My Gallery
Workshops and Private Instruction
Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera-
#13. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 10
Ferguson Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004Sun 02-Sep-18 09:47 AM>"The Z 7 and Z 6 are equipped with a new backside
>illumination Nikon FX-format CMOS sensor with built-in
>focal-plane phase-detection AF pixels, and the latest
>image-processing engine, EXPEED 6."
If the PD/CD combination actually works, and resides on the imaging sensor, all calibration becomes unneeded, both in the factory and fine tune after the fact. All you need is to make sure the sensor and focal plane are parallel. The only focus error induced by mechanics (of a sort) becomes aperture based focus shift, if it focuses at F2.8 and exposes as F8 (say) and that's much less of an issue.
I'm really curious to see if people start finding focus better with these in practice.
Of course there's a lot more to focus than accuracy and precision, like tracking.
Linwood
Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://www.captivephotons.com -
#18. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 10
Hektor Nikonian since 08th Jan 2008Tue 04-Sep-18 01:38 AMEric:
Will the FTZ converter be fully functional with F-Mount Non-Nikkor lenses like Sigma and Tamron? All my lenses have built-in focusing motors. Therefore that is not my concern. I do not have AF-D lenses, for example. they are all AF-S or newer including the Sigma and Tamron lenses.
HektorMy Blog: Hektors Blog
My Photo Album: Hektors Photos
My Nikonians Album: My Galleries
Nikonians is our Safe Port and Home in the World Wide Web - Participate as a Full Family Member.
Nikon Z7 - Leica Q - Nikon Z50
Member since 2007 - Previous User Name: Ramesses (2035 posts) A combined total of 3163+ posts and counting.
"Photography is like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're gonna get." Forrest Gump.-
#19. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 18
Strada_Facendo Nikonian since 06th Jun 2017Tue 04-Sep-18 02:50 AMNikon and Canon - I don't know about the others - do not and never have guaranteed backwards compatibility with third party lenses. Most reported function losses caused by camera firmware changes in new models or updates have been relatively minor AF issues, and I have never heard of a problem with metering functions in manual focus lenses. The change to Z mount may be a bigger shift than usual, however, so who knows?
This is the risk you ran when you bought third party lenses."Sharpness is a bourgeois concept"; Henri Cartier-Bresson
-
-
-
-
#16. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 8
#14. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 0
- Because the FTZ does not have an AI aperture sensing mechanism exposure metering must be done with the lens stopped down to the picture taking aperture.
- Do the Z6 and Z7 open the lens up for focusing or is it also done at picture taking athperture? How would small aperture and therefore lower light level images effect the ability to focus MF lenses using the EFV or rear LCD?
I suppose similar questions could be asked when using AFS lenses. Do the Z6 and Z7 also meter and focus them at picture taking aperture of does the lens open up for those parts of the picture taking sequence?
Gary in West Michigan, USA.
Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera.
Z8, D810, Z50, D300 (720nm IR conversion), D90, F6, FM3a (black), FM2n (chrome)
YashicaMat 124, Graflex Speed Graphic 4x5
My Nikonians Portfolio
My OneDrive Portfolio
-
#17. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 14
benveniste Nikonian since 25th Nov 2002Mon 03-Sep-18 08:24 PM | edited Mon 03-Sep-18 08:25 PM by benvenisteSome detail here -- for non-CPU lenses as with many current Nikon dSLR's, the Z6 and Z7 allow you to enter the maximum aperture and focal length. If only stopped down metering was supported, there'd be no need to enter these values.
From what I've read elsewhere, apparently the Z6 and Z7 will focus at either the requested aperture or f/5.6, whichever is wider. My V2/FT-1 combination appears to open up initially to allow the phase-detect sensors to work, then stops back down to do the final focus tweak via contrast detection.
"There is no real magic in photography, just the sloppy intersection of physics and art." — Kirk Tuck-
#21. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 17
gpoole Nikonian since 13th Feb 2004Tue 04-Sep-18 10:11 AMEven if you enter the maximum aperture into a table, the FTZ has no way to sense the position of the aperture ring, so the camera can't know what picture taking aperture is selected. To me that says the Z6/7 has no way to compute the exposure needed at picture taking aperture for a non=CPU lens if exposure metering is done wide open. This leads me to the conclusion that exposure must be measured with the lens stopped down.
For non-CPU lenses I expect that only Manual and Aperture priority exposure control are supported. This would be the same as with the DSLRs. For Aperture priority it's easy to see how leaving the lens wide open until just before exposure and then metering just before exposure to set the shutter speed. This does mean that you would not know the shutter speed until you push the shutter release button. For Manual exposure you would have to half push the shutter release button to get a valid reading on the meter to aid adjusting the aperture. These scenarios seem clumsy to me and help lead me to believe that a non-CPU lens stays stopped down during the exposure setting part of the picture taking operation.
For focusing, the lens could be left wide open and then stopped down for taking the picture. However this would lead to the clumsy exposure metering operation described in the previous paragraph.Gary in West Michigan, USA.
Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera.
Z8, D810, Z50, D300 (720nm IR conversion), D90, F6, FM3a (black), FM2n (chrome)
YashicaMat 124, Graflex Speed Graphic 4x5
My Nikonians Portfolio
My OneDrive Portfolio-
#22. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 21
benveniste Nikonian since 25th Nov 2002Tue 04-Sep-18 11:52 AM | edited Tue 04-Sep-18 11:53 AM by benvenisteIf you take a look here on page 37, you'll see that the instructions read "Points Common to all F Mount NIKKOR Lenses -- If the lens is equipped with an aperture ring, select minimum aperture (the highest f-number) before attaching the lens to the mount adapter."
So it doesn't try to sense the position of the aperture ring, and instead relies on positioning of the aperture control lever to select the aperture via a control dial. This is not the same as with the DSLRs.
"There is no real magic in photography, just the sloppy intersection of physics and art." — Kirk Tuck-
#23. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 22
gpoole Nikonian since 13th Feb 2004Tue 04-Sep-18 04:26 PMThanks for the link to the brochure. It gives me confidence that that the FTZ will work fine with non-CPU lenses, but it doesn't answer my questions about how it works.
I have a distant memory of reading that the aperture control lever position is not linear with the aperture selection on earlier lenses. Also I doubt that the range of motion of the lever is proportional to the difference between the minimum and maximum apertures. If either of those statements is true, the camera body cannot compute the picture taking aperture to use when setting exposure. Thus I still feel that exposure metering is done with the lens stopped down to picture taking aperture.
I'm sure that Nikon has developed a reasonable procedure for focusing and metering non-CPU lenses. My engineering background leads me to want to understand how it works. I guess I'll just have to wait for a camera manual to be posted online for some user reviews. It's just curiosity, I'm not in the financial situation to invest in the Z series for a while anyway.Gary in West Michigan, USA.
Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera.
Z8, D810, Z50, D300 (720nm IR conversion), D90, F6, FM3a (black), FM2n (chrome)
YashicaMat 124, Graflex Speed Graphic 4x5
My Nikonians Portfolio
My OneDrive Portfolio-
#24. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 23
benveniste Nikonian since 25th Nov 2002Tue 04-Sep-18 06:01 PMI have a distant memory of reading that the aperture control lever position is not linear with the aperture selection on earlier lenses. Also I doubt that the range of motion of the lever is proportional to the difference between the minimum >and maximum apertures. If either of those statements is true,
The response is linear across the range for AI-s lenses. For AI lenses, there would need to be built in compensation. The Nikon FA had such compensation built in -- it would be even easier to do so with a 21st century mirrorless camera.
I have 2 AI (non-AIs) lenses -- a 50mm f/1.8 and a 43-86mm f/3.5. I'm not terribly worried about compatibility with either one .
"There is no real magic in photography, just the sloppy intersection of physics and art." — Kirk Tuck-
#25. "RE: Z mount adapter" | In response to Reply # 24
gpoole Nikonian since 13th Feb 2004Tue 04-Sep-18 07:01 PM | edited Tue 04-Sep-18 07:02 PM by gpoole"The response is linear across the range for AI-s lenses. For AI lenses, there would need to be built in compensation."
That fits what I remember reading some time ago.
"I have 2 AI (non-AIs) lenses -- a 50mm f/1.8 and a 43-86mm f/3.5. I'm not terribly worried about compatibility with either one."
I have 3 AIed and 3 AI lenses in my arsenal. After reading the brochure, I'm not worried either. At this point it's just my engineer's training making me try to understand how the FTZ and Z6/7 work with the with non-CPU lenses. After 54 years as a Nikon SLR and DSLR user I have enough confidence in Nikon's engineering skills to accept that it will work well. One my reasons for sticking with Nikon all these years is their continued support of legacy lenses. It looks like the Zx non-CPU lens capability will exceed the DSLR capability.
Thanks for your patience in this dialog.Gary in West Michigan, USA.
Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera.
Z8, D810, Z50, D300 (720nm IR conversion), D90, F6, FM3a (black), FM2n (chrome)
YashicaMat 124, Graflex Speed Graphic 4x5
My Nikonians Portfolio
My OneDrive Portfolio
-
-
-
-
-
G