New Z7 & LR
Mon 29-Oct-18 01:23 PM
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#1. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 0
Mon 29-Oct-18 04:01 PMClick the Info button below where it says, "Built-in Lens Profile applied." It explains what is happening.
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#3. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 0
Mon 29-Oct-18 04:12 PM | edited Mon 29-Oct-18 04:13 PM by JonK
Interesting. I shot this weekend with the 24-70 S and I had not noticed that before now — ands it’s a bug.
You can click to the right of “Built-in” (arrows) and select “Nikon”. But then things get wack. When I select ”Nikon”, Lightroom populates Model and Profile with the 105mm f/1.4 Nikkor, obviously wrong. And not that it matters, but there is no way back to “Built-in”, not that I think that would be correct.
More interesting is that only the 24-70 S lens is misread. My 24-70mm f/4 and my 300mm f/4 PF lenses read correctly — though you do have to change “Built-in” to “Nikon”. So a second bug is that “Make” does not self-populate when you check “Enable Profile Corrections”.
So two misses for Adobe…
Jon Kandel
An Alexandria, VA Nikonian and Team Member
Please visit my website and critique the images!
You can click to the right of “Built-in” (arrows) and select “Nikon”. But then things get wack. When I select ”Nikon”, Lightroom populates Model and Profile with the 105mm f/1.4 Nikkor, obviously wrong. And not that it matters, but there is no way back to “Built-in”, not that I think that would be correct.
More interesting is that only the 24-70 S lens is misread. My 24-70mm f/4 and my 300mm f/4 PF lenses read correctly — though you do have to change “Built-in” to “Nikon”. So a second bug is that “Make” does not self-populate when you check “Enable Profile Corrections”.
So two misses for Adobe…
Jon Kandel
An Alexandria, VA Nikonian and Team Member
Please visit my website and critique the images!
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#4. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 3
Mon 29-Oct-18 04:15 PM>Interesting. I shot this weekend with the 24-70 S and I had
>not noticed that before now — ands it’s a bug.
>
>You can click to the right of “Built-in” (arrows) and
>select “Nikon”. But then things get wack. When I select
>”Nikon”, Lightroom populates Model and Profile with the
>105mm f/1.4 Nikkor, obviously wrong. And not that it matters,
>but there is no way back to “Built-in”, not that I think
>that would be correct.
>
>More interesting is that only the 24-70 S lens is misread. My
>24-70mm f/4 and my 300mm f/4 PF lenses read correctly —
>though you do have to change “Built-in” to “Nikon”. So
>a second bug is that “Make” does not self-populate when
>you check “Enable Profile Corrections”.
>
>So two misses for Adobe…
Yeah you don't want to do that manually. Once you choose Nikon you can't get back to the correct built-in profile that is supplied by the lens.
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#6. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 4
Mon 29-Oct-18 04:19 PMMy next question is whether there is a built-in profile and is it being supplied? I see no change on the image — though I could almost believe that the S lens needs little or no correction…
Jon Kandel
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#8. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 6
Mon 29-Oct-18 04:23 PMWhen you import a Z7 file, LR tells you the profile is automatically applied. Why would you disbelieve that it is?
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#9. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 8
Mon 29-Oct-18 04:25 PMOnly because LR used to populate the three slots. I’m not familiar with built-in profiles.
But it is quite possible that LR is behaving properly.
Jon Kandel
An Alexandria, VA Nikonian and Team Member
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#10. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 9
Mon 29-Oct-18 04:33 PM | edited Mon 29-Oct-18 04:34 PM by benttopMy interpretation is that the profile is automatically applied for S lenses. Ticking the checkbox does nothing because the profile is already automatically applied on import. That's why you don't see a change when you click that box. If you make the mistake (as I did) of trying to populate those drop-down boxes, all bets are off. I couldn't find any way to get back to the automatically applied profile. There may be a way, but offhand, I don't see it.
Although I think LR is probably working correctly, the way this works is not obvious and should be fixed by Adobe. We can't be the only ones stumbling over this. Like maybe disable those other fields if the automatically applied profile is present.
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#11. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 10
Mon 29-Oct-18 04:35 PMAgree, Steve, on all counts.
Jon Kandel
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#16. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 10
Mon 29-Oct-18 11:38 PMReplying to myself here - this is the popup you get when you push the i button:
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#17. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 16
Mon 29-Oct-18 11:43 PMBingo! Thanks, Steve!
Jon Kandel
An Alexandria, VA Nikonian and Team Member
Please visit my website and critique the images!
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#13. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 0
Mon 29-Oct-18 08:36 PM
Apologies in advance but can ask one of you if you if you are able to open Raw files in LR and if so, how? It's only recognizing .jpgs from my Z7.
Thanks,
Kent in VA
Thanks,
Kent in VA
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"A poor worker always blames his tools" Anonymous
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#15. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 13
Mon 29-Oct-18 10:09 PMThere was an update, rolled out about the first two weeks of October. From within Lightroom go to Help > Updates. That should command the Adobe Creative Cloud Desktop to launch and allow you to command the update.
Jon Kandel
An Alexandria, VA Nikonian and Team Member
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#21. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 15
Tue 30-Oct-18 10:10 AMJon and Bob, thanks. I'll take a look at LR again and the help function; I've only been shooting .jpgs so eager to get back into Raw files.
Kent in VAVisit my Nikonians gallery.
"A poor worker always blames his tools" Anonymous
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#18. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 13
Tue 30-Oct-18 03:49 AM
Got my Z7 only a fee days ago and no problem opening Raw, only problem has been this present query. My LR was updated Classic CC so maybe that is why things went smoothly?
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#19. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 0
Tue 30-Oct-18 08:58 AM
Well now this is interesting. I wanted to post the message LR provides when you push that i button, which I did. But in the course of doing that, I discovered that the built in profile does not always automatically arrive in LR. See the images - this is from a pic I snapped last night, and as you can see, the message is missing.
If I click the Enable Profile Corrections checkbox, LR will let me choose, but there are no lenses that match. And notice LR is now complaining that it did not automatically get the matching profile. Thus, there is no solution at this point.
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- Steve Cavanaugh -
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If I click the Enable Profile Corrections checkbox, LR will let me choose, but there are no lenses that match. And notice LR is now complaining that it did not automatically get the matching profile. Thus, there is no solution at this point.
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Attachment#1 (jpg file)
Attachment#2 (jpg file)
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#20. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 19
Tue 30-Oct-18 09:27 AMInteresting. I may have spoken too soon. After 15-20 minutes doing something else, I came back to LR and the automatic profile is now there! <sigh>....
So, never mind. I guess. Weird though!
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#22. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 20
Tue 30-Oct-18 02:08 PM | edited Wed 31-Oct-18 07:39 PM by JonKHmmm. So when Lightroom takes a lunch break, it stops reading the built-in profile…
I have to say that, now that I understand how the built-in interface works, I can live with it ‚— though I’d still prefer they change the display just for consistency between lenses.
Jon Kandel
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#23. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 22
Tue 30-Oct-18 02:36 PMYeah I can live with it too. But you need to pay attention - if you start an export before those profiles are present you could conceivably have an issue, although probably minor.
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#24. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 23
Wed 31-Oct-18 07:36 PMOh by the way, I solved the question of what to do if you happen to click the dropdown and can't get back. Push the Reset button. Of course you lose any edits doing that, but you do get back to the correct profile.
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#25. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 24
Wed 31-Oct-18 07:38 PMAh!
Jon Kandel
An Alexandria, VA Nikonian and Team Member
Please visit my website and critique the images!
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#26. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 0
Wed 31-Oct-18 08:30 PM
Question! Does Lightroom apply the corrections or are they already applied by the Z 7? If they are already imbedded in the image you can leave the Profile Correction unchecked.
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#27. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 26
Wed 31-Oct-18 08:35 PM | edited Wed 31-Oct-18 08:36 PM by benttopI don't think it matters whether you check that Profile Correction box or not. I discovered all of this stuff because I have created a number of presets in the Develop module, and they all have it checked. I happened to look down there after applying a preset and noticed there was no lens or camera where I am used to seeing them, which caused me to investigate.
I could fix all of those presets, but then they would be wrong for my D850 images. I decided since it does not appear to matter as long as I don't try to set the camera and lens, I'm going to let my presets tick that checkbox so that I have common presets across the suite of cameras I use.
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#28. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 0
Thu 01-Nov-18 07:09 AM
Just a comment about the use of corrections.
Normally it's fine to use the lens profile correction to correct distortion and vignetting. I would not automatically correct CA. The way the correction works is it addresses blue and purple colors in the image. In addition to the desired correction, the CA correction can impact areas without CA but simply blue and purple color. I'd limit the use of the correction to situations tht need it.
Also be aware that the distortion correction can crop out edges and might clip something that matters. While it works well most of the time, it's not something you set and forget.
Normally it's fine to use the lens profile correction to correct distortion and vignetting. I would not automatically correct CA. The way the correction works is it addresses blue and purple colors in the image. In addition to the desired correction, the CA correction can impact areas without CA but simply blue and purple color. I'd limit the use of the correction to situations tht need it.
Also be aware that the distortion correction can crop out edges and might clip something that matters. While it works well most of the time, it's not something you set and forget.
Eric Bowles
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#29. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 28
Thu 01-Nov-18 08:06 AM>Also be aware that the distortion correction can crop out
>edges and might clip something that matters. While it works
>well most of the time, it's not something you set and forget.
Unfortunately, with the Z7 Adobe (or Nikon?) have not given us a way to "unset" the correction, as it is automatically applied whether the checkbox is ticked or not. I guess I'm not aware of any way to see the image without the correction.
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#30. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 29
Thu 01-Nov-18 08:47 AM | edited Thu 01-Nov-18 08:48 AM by ericbowlesGood point Steve. That's new - as pointed out above in your post about corrections. Hopefully we can see the correction in the viewfinder since it applies camera settings, and frame accordingly. It's a new world.
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#31. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 30
Sat 03-Nov-18 05:57 AM"Its a New World' said Eric, as the original poster I have or may have another anomaly under the same heading 'New Z7 & LR'
I will not create a new post because hopefully you will all tell me I am talking rubbish!
Whilst looking into the aforementioned LR profiles I notice that my Z7 'seems' to be exporting RAW NEF (I never use jpeg) with some settings already applied or is LR applying on import?
Attached first screenshot shows my D5 with basic presets set long ago to Rick Walkers Article, suit me never changed them.
Second screenshot shows my first batch of Z7 NEF imports with nothing touched the Sharpen and Noise settings have increased. Has the camera / LR added its own presets or have they added them in addition to my original. Pressing rest in LR Develop Module does not alter these settings.
Sorry if this is stupid but I do not know where to start from.
I have camera set only for initial tests AF release ISO etc, have not changed any default picture settings and use only RAW with SD or Neutral.
The question is this New World or nothing in it?
(As another diversion there is a video on the net where the (obviously switched on) poster believes his Z7 is not importing basic RAW files but rather a file in the style of a jpeg.)
Attachment#1 (png file)
Attachment#2 (png file)
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#32. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 31
Sat 03-Nov-18 08:54 AMFascinating. I hadn't really noticed this because I always use a preset in post, which resets sharpening and noise reduction to my preferences. Looking at NEFs from my D850, I see they come in with similar sharpening, but zero noise reduction. All I can think to say at this point is, "I wonder what this means?"
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#33. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 32
Sat 03-Nov-18 09:02 AMI also do that. Thinking of removing my normal preset which was the same for D800/810/D5 to check what's there and then starting again. As you say I wonder what this means.Visit my Nikonians gallery.
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#34. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 0
Sat 03-Nov-18 09:33 AM
From Thom Hogan ( https://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/camera-database/nikon-z-mirrorless-cameras/nikon-z6z7-blog/ ):
"The question that is unanswered is how much of this is Nikon and how much is Adobe? My best guess is that Nikon asked Adobe how to specify new default information for NEF files and Adobe said "include these XMP values in the file." That's what it looks like to me. Which means that Nikon is delivering the values here; they're not from Adobe testing.
The good news is that the Z7 NEFs look, at defaults, more like the embedded JPEG than they used to. And Nikon hasn't chosen terrible defaults, though I don't tend to use them."
"The question that is unanswered is how much of this is Nikon and how much is Adobe? My best guess is that Nikon asked Adobe how to specify new default information for NEF files and Adobe said "include these XMP values in the file." That's what it looks like to me. Which means that Nikon is delivering the values here; they're not from Adobe testing.
The good news is that the Z7 NEFs look, at defaults, more like the embedded JPEG than they used to. And Nikon hasn't chosen terrible defaults, though I don't tend to use them."
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#35. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 34
Sat 03-Nov-18 10:07 AMThanks for that, it certainly seems to answer my query. Only had my Z a few days so just started to follow the topics.
How new Nikon buyers manage to find all this stuff unless they are Nikonians or subscribed to other non Nikon owned forums goodness knows.
As a matter of interest I wonder how this in particular effects non Adobe users with their different editing programs if it is the file in camera itself that is being manipulated.Visit my Nikonians gallery.
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#36. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 35
Sat 03-Nov-18 06:37 PMI think there are two parts to this. The first is Nikon Picture Control and other camera settings. Those are likely read by Adobe and applied. If true, they can probly be either not applied through a preset or backed out.
The second is lens correction. It seems like those are already applied to the image by the Z 7.
We need a full explaination from Adobe.-
#37. "RE: New Z7 & LR" | In response to Reply # 36
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Took my first Z7 test shots today (happy), The images attached show -
Picture 1 is What I normally see with my D5 when importing & that applies automatically for all imported images. (Have a preset set but can't remember yet how I did that but it works for each import)
Picture 2 is what I see on my first Z7 import ie enable not set with three grey Profile boxes
Picture 3 is what I see when I select Enable Profile Correction box. ie click Enable and 'Make' highlights to 'Build In' Model & Profile remain grey (gray) Library Module shows Z7 and 24-70 correctly. This has to be completed for each Z7 image.
If anyone can fathom out what I am trying to say I would be obliged for any help as to wether this is correct and
should in future imports this happen automatically now one image has been set/
Many thanks for any advice.