Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor
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#3. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 2
Sat 20-Feb-21 02:52 PM | edited Sat 20-Feb-21 02:54 PM by cugNo, what you describe is how the D850 works. Mirrorless cameras are always in "live view" since this is how they present you with what your pointing the camera at.
A DSLR has the phase detect system on a separate optical path, the sensor is generally off while you're looking and focusing and will only be turned on, when you either take the shot or switch into live view. But then you're taking out the separate optical path to the focusing sensor, so it's contrast detect only.
That's why mirrorless has vastly superior focusing for video and when using it with the rear display for shooting.
But that's also why there is a potential of seeing a pattern of phase detect pixels under certain circumstances (extreme exposure pushing in post for example). I have not seen this to be a problem with the Z series cameras though, but it is theoretically possible.-
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#5. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 4
Sun 21-Feb-21 01:01 PMVery likely not, but that's the engineer in me speaking. For all intents and purposes, they are of the same descent, but not the same sensor. So you'll get very similar qualities, with the Z sensors having the added phase detection pixels and very likely a whole bunch of optimizations like faster read-out, energy efficiency, etc. that come with a newer generation of the same sensor family.
But in the end, nobody other than the involved companies (Sony & Nikon) knows for sure what the differences are.-
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#7. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 6
Tue 23-Feb-21 11:43 AMHi Muhammad
In general, you're seeing a gradual shift toward mirrorless from DSLR cameras. Much of the new technology starts in whatever new camera is released whether it's a DSLR or Z camera. So the sensor of the D850 has the same dimensions and is a BSI sensor, but is not being used in exactly the same way in the Z cameras. In addition, you have focus modes. There are I think 4-5 new AF area modes in the Z7II. You also have differences in how specific modes work. The big difference is the Z cameras focus on the sensor, and the D850 focuses with a translucent mirror using a separate sensor on the bottom of the mirror box. The Z cameras have a different method of focusing - using a hybrid phase detect and contrast detect steps to blend speed and accuracy - and this largely eliminates AF Fine tuning.
When it comes to a camera, there are pros and cons based on what and how you shoot. The last two Nikonians webinars featured speakers that chose a D850 for some or all of their work. But two of the three speakers we have had so far are using mirrorless cameras - and one sold her D850 in favor of a Z7II. I just got a Z7II and will likely be selling my D850 - but I previously bought a Z6 that I am keeping so this is nearly 3 years into a direction and I have the lenses.
I think it's more a matter of direction. Both cameras work well and can do whatever you want. Given that there is a direction to mirrorless, you might consider moving in that direction with your next purchase. But it means you will also be adding some lenses at least one initially and more over time. If you want to stick with a DSLR system, you have no need to buy any lenses if your current ones are doing the job. The Z cameras can use all but your 35mm f/2 lens (which would mount but be manual focus).
I would not base the decision on the sensor or sharpness. They are close enough where you'd be unlikely to see any real difference.Eric Bowles
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#8. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 7
muhammad Registered since 14th Nov 2017Wed 24-Feb-21 11:39 AMThanks Eric for highlighting the differences between the two sensors. The review made me curious as to what is the main difference between the two sensors.
My main concern was the image quality and color output by the sensor. Most of the members are satisfied with their Z7 experience and so am I thinking about Z7ii and Z 24-70 2.8.-
#9. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 8
Wed 24-Feb-21 11:52 AMI've got the Z7II and Z 24-70 f/2.8 - and they are terrific. Probably the question you'll need to answer is whether you need f/2.8 and the build of the f/2.8 lens, or whether the 24-70 f/4 is good enough and you want to supplement it with some primes or an ultrawide. If you are shooting them at landscape apertures of f/8 to f/11, the f/4 versions are probably going to be fine. The f/4 versions are also smaller and lighter if that matters.Eric Bowles
Director - Nikonians Academy
Nikonians Team Moderator
My Gallery
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#13. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 9
Wed 24-Feb-21 05:48 PMEric,
Regarding the f/4 vs. f/2.8 versions of the 24-70...
Do you (or anyone else) have any more thoughts on this conundrum / tradeoff?
I have the f/4 lens. I’ve been happy with it. It’s very light and fairly small.
The Z 6/7/6II/7II form factor with the f/4 lens is completely portable and subtle in terms of nervous subjects.
Still, the allure of f/2.8 beckons...
The question is, for those who have been there, is there a compelling reason to upgrade?
Is there a reason to own both?
Is the f/2.8 sharper?
Many thanks for your insight!
- Ford-
#14. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 13
Wed 24-Feb-21 06:03 PMThere is a pretty good comparison between the two on Youtube:
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#17. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 14
Thu 25-Feb-21 10:04 AMThanks Guido!
Very interesting comparison.
It does seem like the f/2.8 is a sharper lens - but the f/4 is still very good.
So I guess my question is what folks think - in a practical sense - about whether the added cost and size/weight are worth it.
Thanks for sharing the video.
- Ford-
#18. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 17
Thu 25-Feb-21 10:48 AMNot for me, but everybody is different.
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#21. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 9
muhammad Registered since 14th Nov 2017Thu 25-Feb-21 02:21 PM | edited Thu 25-Feb-21 02:21 PM by muhammadAbsolutely in agreement as far as weight and size is concerned, but my concern was edge and corner sharpness also at landscape apertures as many reviews show that 24-70 2.8 has better sharpness across the frame i.e. better edge and corner sharpness.
How is your experience with both?-
#22. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 21
Thu 25-Feb-21 02:40 PMI've got both. No question, the f/2.8 version is a little better. One other wrinkle - it's good enough that it does not require much if any correction in Lightroom. Correction can be turned on if needed, but it's up to you. The f/4 version is corrected by default and you don't have the option to not correct it by turning off Lens Correction.Eric Bowles
Director - Nikonians Academy
Nikonians Team Moderator
My Gallery
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#23. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 22
Thu 25-Feb-21 03:15 PMThanks Eric - I’m leaning towards both as well.
The f/4 seems like it is a great (lightweight, portable, quite sharp) travel / walking around lens.
Then the f/2.8 is the pro grade razor sharp “work” lens.
I got the f/4 as a “kit” lens two years ago. It almost seems as though the residual value is so low, it makes sense to keep it - even if I do get the f/2.8 version.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
- Ford-
#24. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 23
Thu 25-Feb-21 03:36 PMHi Ford
That's the approach I'm taking - keeping the f/4 lenses for when I need something light.
The market rate for the 24-70 f/4 is around $400-475 - not bad considering the kit price that was actually paid.Eric Bowles
Director - Nikonians Academy
Nikonians Team Moderator
My Gallery
Workshops and Private Instruction
Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera
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#10. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 7
Wed 24-Feb-21 12:39 PM | edited Wed 24-Feb-21 12:42 PM by esantos
Eric,
I have a Z50 that is my wife's primary camera and it is quite amazing the times I have used it. I would be interested in getting a Z7II to either augment my aging D810/D4 combo or to replace the D4, but before I do that I want to see what Nikon is going to introduce as the next iteration of the D8xx part of the line. I will probably never update my D4 at this time unless Nikon releases something really spectacular in their flagship product segment. The main issue for me is contemplating acquiring a new set of lens for a Z camera when I am already so heavily invested in standard Nikkors (I own 14 lenses at present). What do you think about my logic here? Should I wait for the next D8xx or should I jump in the Z pool and get a Z 7II and start building a mirrorless collection of glass?
I have a Z50 that is my wife's primary camera and it is quite amazing the times I have used it. I would be interested in getting a Z7II to either augment my aging D810/D4 combo or to replace the D4, but before I do that I want to see what Nikon is going to introduce as the next iteration of the D8xx part of the line. I will probably never update my D4 at this time unless Nikon releases something really spectacular in their flagship product segment. The main issue for me is contemplating acquiring a new set of lens for a Z camera when I am already so heavily invested in standard Nikkors (I own 14 lenses at present). What do you think about my logic here? Should I wait for the next D8xx or should I jump in the Z pool and get a Z 7II and start building a mirrorless collection of glass?
Ernesto Santos
esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography
Get my new e-Book "Churches of Texas"
See my portfolio.
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#11. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 10
Wed 24-Feb-21 01:47 PM | edited Wed 24-Feb-21 01:49 PM by ericbowlesHi Ernesto
I think it depends on your time horizon. I think lenses have a practical life in my bag of 10-15 years. I generally skip a generation on camera bodies and lenses. So if you have older lenses - especially if there is an F-mount replacement that you have not purchased, your lenses are candidates for replacement within a few years. If that's the case, there is a lot lower penalty of moving to Z-lenses now.
As I looked at my bag, I had the prior version of the 16-35 f/4, 24-70 f/2.8, and 70-200 f/2.8, as well as a couple of AF-D 50mm lenses. Of these, none are optically great although they were functional. So while these represent 5 lenses, all were candidates for replacement. Moving to the Z system, there is an expense of upgrading lenses over a couple of years, but now I'm pretty well set for the next 7-10 years. Optically, the Z lenses are all clearly better - especially for landscapes because of corner performance.
I started with the Z6 to give mirrorless a try - and it exceeded my expectations. At this point the Z6II and Z7II are well established to be very capable cameras. My approach was to start selling some of my F-mount cameras and lenses that had low utilization before I jumped in fully. It was more a matter of pruning out marginal gear.
The D850 is a very good camera, but in most respects the Z7II is more advanced. BUT - if there is a D850 replacement, it will have almost everything you have in a Z7II. Outside the EVF, almost everything translates to a DSLR.
Knowing what and how you shoot, I think the Z7II is a great choice. There is nothing you shoot that would give the edge to the D850 or a successor. Of course, there are always going to be new features or enhancements with the latest camera. The FTZ is fine and allows you to be patient with a transition.Eric Bowles
Director - Nikonians Academy
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My Gallery
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#12. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 11
Wed 24-Feb-21 02:01 PM>The D850 is a very good camera, but in most respects the Z7II
>is more advanced. BUT - if there is a D850 replacement, it
>will have almost everything you have in a Z7II. Outside the
>EVF, almost everything translates to a DSLR.
Just some thoughts from my end: DSLRs are at the end of their era. Nowadays, as cameras like the Sony A9 II and the Canon R6/R5 show, the remaining domain of fast focus and reliable use with long lenses has caught up.
The one thing that DSLRs are and always will be better at is battery life. And I'm happy to change a battery once in a while to work with a smaller camera that has significant real life advantages:
- Even through the viewfinder you can gauge exposure
- There is no chance of focus shift between focus sensor and image sensor. The only remaining problem there is focus shift due to aperture changes, which Nikon addresses mostly by focusing closed down to working aperture under conditions allowing for it.
- Size and weight might not be a problem for you, but when you have lived with a smaller system for a while, it's hard to go back. I have a hard time with the Nikon 1.8 lenses since I'm used to Fujifilm 1.4 and 1.2 lenses being 1/2 to 2/3 of the size.
- New development will go into the most promising future products, and that is definitely not DSLRs. The market has spoken towards mirrorless and with Sony, Canon having incredible systems out there, Nikon will do well to put some more effort into their own offerings. Even the gen II cameras are already falling behind and the shrinking market will make it hard to develop large systems in a short time, something that is desperately needed from Nikon since they are severely lagging behind in lens delivery (not quality, but the selection is still rather limited).
So, personally, I'd not buy another DSLR, no matter how many lenses I had. You can use probably all, definitely most of them via the FTZ adapter and slowly switch to Z mount. There is no actual NEED to go all in, but it might be better while there is still a market for the lenses. No one can predict the future here, I have old cameras that are worth more than I paid for them, but that is very, very rare. -
#19. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 11
Thu 25-Feb-21 01:41 PMHi Eric,
Thanks so much for the insights. A lot to digest and I will continue to study the upgrade situation. Thankfully, I have time on my side.
Ernesto Santos
esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography
Get my new e-Book "Churches of Texas"See my portfolio.
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#15. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 10
Thu 25-Feb-21 09:14 AM
Ernesto,
I had similar questions, minus the D4. What made me pull the trigger was the consensus that going mirrorless is not as simple a transition as upgrading to the latest DSLR. To use the mirrorless cameras well, one needs to relearn and understand the focusing system and its modes well. Then there is the viewfinder blackout, which presents some challenges for birds in flight and sports.
Personally, I chose to purchase a Z6ii to learn on with the intention of probable upgrading to a future, more perfected, mirrorless.
I tried to like the Z6ii, but I really missed the image quality/resolution of the D810. The Z6ii would be great for many people, but after a week, I traded it for the Z7ii. I’m thrilled with the image quality/resolution of the Z7ii.
For someone like me who photographs diverse subjects, people, dogs, landscapes, birds in flight, sports & theater (when allowed), knowing the focusing modes and other functions is crucial for good results. I thought this would be a great time to ‘learn’ the camera.
Regarding your question “Should I wait for the next D8xx or should I jump in the Z pool and get a Z 7II and start building a mirrorless collection of glass?” my suggestion is give serious consideration to getting a Z so you can learn it. If you are like me, you’ll wish for some improvements, you’ll have some frustrations with the change, but you’ll love it.
For reference, I did not purchase any of the Z mount lenses. I’m convinced they’re great, but all of my F mount glass has produced very good results. Somewhat surprising to me is how long it is taking me to get used to the Z body and know it well. However, in the six weeks I’ve had it I haven’t used the D810 once.
Good luck in your decision.
Dan Poiree
I had similar questions, minus the D4. What made me pull the trigger was the consensus that going mirrorless is not as simple a transition as upgrading to the latest DSLR. To use the mirrorless cameras well, one needs to relearn and understand the focusing system and its modes well. Then there is the viewfinder blackout, which presents some challenges for birds in flight and sports.
Personally, I chose to purchase a Z6ii to learn on with the intention of probable upgrading to a future, more perfected, mirrorless.
I tried to like the Z6ii, but I really missed the image quality/resolution of the D810. The Z6ii would be great for many people, but after a week, I traded it for the Z7ii. I’m thrilled with the image quality/resolution of the Z7ii.
For someone like me who photographs diverse subjects, people, dogs, landscapes, birds in flight, sports & theater (when allowed), knowing the focusing modes and other functions is crucial for good results. I thought this would be a great time to ‘learn’ the camera.
Regarding your question “Should I wait for the next D8xx or should I jump in the Z pool and get a Z 7II and start building a mirrorless collection of glass?” my suggestion is give serious consideration to getting a Z so you can learn it. If you are like me, you’ll wish for some improvements, you’ll have some frustrations with the change, but you’ll love it.
For reference, I did not purchase any of the Z mount lenses. I’m convinced they’re great, but all of my F mount glass has produced very good results. Somewhat surprising to me is how long it is taking me to get used to the Z body and know it well. However, in the six weeks I’ve had it I haven’t used the D810 once.
Good luck in your decision.
Dan Poiree
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#16. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 15
Thu 25-Feb-21 09:52 AMJust a note on Focus modes.
Every new camera has some sort of change. Focus modes tend to move forward with each subsequent camera. The D800 had one set of AF Area Modes, the D810 made a small change, the D5/D500 had a major change, the D850 had minimal changes from the D5/D500, the Z6/7 made some major changes, The D780 had minimal changes from the Z6/7, and the Z6II/Z7II had moderate changes. These changes have included how an Area mode works, added or dropped Area modes, limited some modes to AF-C or AF-S, and added control over selecting which modes you want to see in your display. In addition, firmware updates have refined how AF modes work including how they are combined with AF speed and accuracy.
So yes - there is a learning curve for the cameras, but it's common to any camera upgrade. When Dynamic Area AF changed from the D810 to the D500, there were hundreds of complaints - and then people stopped griping and learned how to use the new modes. I have not heard a complaint about that issue in years.
I do agree that any new camera today has a bit more learning curve than normal. There are a lot more choices for camera setup, iMenu, function buttons, and User settings. To get the most out of your camera - and really to have the best photographer's experience - you probably need to customize settings and use those settings for the things you photograph and your personal style.
Microsoft has updates Word and Excel for years. There are lots of new features and capabilities - such as tables, outlines, contents, pivot tables, formulas, and data tools. Most people use less than 10% of the capability of those programs - probably less than 10% of the program as it was 10 years ago. Cameras are moving in a similar direction with tremendous capabilities, but many people continue to shoot on Auto or Program with a default setup.Eric Bowles
Director - Nikonians Academy
Nikonians Team Moderator
My Gallery
Workshops and Private Instruction
Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera -
#20. "RE: Nikon Z7ii sensor vs D850 sensor" | In response to Reply # 15
Thu 25-Feb-21 01:42 PMHi Dan,
Another great post with excellent advice. I appreciate the time you took to help me out here. Thank you!Ernesto Santos
esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography
Get my new e-Book "Churches of Texas"See my portfolio.
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https://camerajabber.com/reviews/nikon-z7ii/
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