AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?
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#1. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 0
Sun 24-Jan-21 10:03 AMThe camera does provide AF at 14 fps. That's not the issue.
Is this a subject you successfully track with earlier cameras? We see a lot of comments about tracking something that was difficult to track with prior cameras - it's just hard.
There are two types of "tracking" - helping you follow and pick up a subject or focusing on a subject and having it move across the frame. Being able to pick up a subject is normally where I see struggles. You have to use a mode where the AF sensor is on the subject or has enough contrast to find the subject. Use the smallest AF area you can maintain on the subject. If a subject is hard to follow, it may still be difficult with Area mode. I prefer the wide modes for challenging subjects - Small or Large depending on difficulty. I stay away from Area mode if I can't follow a subject - I use Area when I can keep the subject in the frame and it is a clear subject vs. everything else in the frame.Eric Bowles
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#2. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 1
Sun 24-Jan-21 12:28 PMThank you
What I am doing is some tests when I acquire the subject and then approaching it while shooting continuously. Or asking my children to run toward the camera.
With my D750 and dynamic AF 51, almost all of the images were sharp.
Not so with Z6-2 (and I tried all of the AF modes including all Area AF, Subject tracking AF, Dynamic), used Z24-70/F4S and Z70-200/2.8S.
Maybe the problem was a lack of significant contrast or not enough light.
I'll try again on a sunny day.
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#3. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 2
Sun 24-Jan-21 12:53 PMWhat was the miss? Or did it just hunt?
I'd typically start with AF-C and Wide Small. I would not be using Dynamic. I might also try Area with Eye/Face Detect. I'd expect a pretty high success rate - 90% or more.Eric Bowles
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#4. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 3
Sun 24-Jan-21 01:23 PM | edited Sun 24-Jan-21 01:26 PM by MeprstIn the viewfinder, the AF point (all kinds of points - square, eye yellow square) is on target. Viewing the image after shot - focus point is on target, but the image itself not in focus.
In movie mode everything sharp (so the problem is not the camera or camera/lens interface)Visit my Nikonians gallery.
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#5. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 4
Sun 24-Jan-21 02:20 PMThat sounds like the camera is correctly focusing.
Are you using AF-C? AF-S requires a static subject.
Are you using 12 bit mode? How about with 14 bit and a slower frame rate? Do you have the same problem?
Can you post an image here - both full size with the AF points used being shown and a 100% crop. If you use View NXi or Capture NXD you can make a screen shot of the AF points being used.Eric Bowles
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#6. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 5
Sun 24-Jan-21 03:12 PMI am using AF-C
I shooting jpeg.
From your question (lowering the frame rate) I understand that there is a possibility that the AF system has a problem refocusing from frame to frame using 14 FPS. I'll try to see if there is a difference using different frame rates.
I'll try to take some images tomorrow using your suggestions, and if the problem is still there, I'll try to attach the image.
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#7. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 6
Mon 25-Jan-21 12:46 PMI made today some tests. The outcome - not so great -
The tests include my children running or walking toward the camera - in afternoon shadow, with sun elsewhere.
Settings - 1/1000 f4, Auto ISO, Manual Exposure, AF-C, 14 FPS.
Lens - Z 24-70 f4 (kit lens).
The best result achieved - Wide L AF - Focal length 34.5mm - 92%.
Worst result - Area AF people - Focal length 70mm - 20%
Following results at Focal length 70mm -
Wide L - 40% (Background sharp)
Area AF Subject tracking - First burst - 43%, Second burst - 72% (Background sharp)
Dynamic AF - First burst - 27%, Second - 60% (Background sharp)
Walking to the camera -
Area AF Tracking - Focal length 58mm - 67%
Area AF (people) - Focal length 70mm - 65%
I think the reason for that is maybe (emphasis on maybe) less the camera and more scenery/light condition and me... Even though I expect much much more from the camera - 20%, 27%, 43%, and even 60%/70% hit rate is not acceptable.
I'll continue testing in the following days, more carefully documenting, and with a different combination of scenery/light/composition.
BTW there is no focus point at all in Capture NX-D or ViewNX-i (Show focus point in settings ON)Visit my Nikonians gallery.
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#8. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 7
Mon 25-Jan-21 02:24 PMNormally if Capture and View don't show the AF point, it means AF was not achieved. It may have been achieved on the prior frame if you use BBF.
What do you mean by "Background"?
Are you taking a few test frames before they start moving? What's the hit rate for those shots? It should be near 100%.
How far away are the subjects? How large in the frame. Eye AF does not kick in until the subject is pretty close - inside 10 feet at the focal lengths you are using. But Area and Wide should pick up anyway.
If we get some better weather I'll do some testing as well.Eric Bowles
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#9. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 8
Mon 25-Jan-21 03:04 PM | edited Mon 25-Jan-21 03:13 PM by MeprstI tried Capture and View ib AF-C and AF-S with razor-sharp pictures - JPEG or RAW. I'll try again.
Static Pictures (before moving) are 100% sharp.
Background - look at the image - at trees behind my son (100% crop)
Attachment#1 (jpg file)
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#10. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 9
Mon 25-Jan-21 03:39 PMI wonder if the mask is the issue?
The other high contrast portion of the scene would be the trees in the background. I'd look for a closer subject, but that still should be adequate.Eric Bowles
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#11. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 10
Mon 25-Jan-21 04:54 PMMask is not an issue
I'll continue testing in the following days.
BTW, I found (I think) why there is no focus point in View and Capture - my versions are outdated - Nikon added support for 6ii and 7ii in the newer versions, but they run on Win10 only and I am still using Win7...Visit my Nikonians gallery.
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#12. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 11
Mon 25-Jan-21 08:36 PMIf I missed the answers to my questions, please point me to them.
I noted your settings:
Settings - 1/1000 f4, Auto ISO, Manual Exposure, AF-C, 14 FPS.
Lens - Z 24-70 f4 (kit lens).
What is the auto ISO maximum? What is the minimum shutter speed setting?
What is the recorded ISO and shutter speeds in your actual pictures?
F4 has a fairly low DOF. Did you also try F8?-
#13. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 12
Tue 26-Jan-21 04:28 AMHello
Sorry, But your questions missing here for some reasons.
To answer your questions -
ISO - minimum 1/30, maximum - maximum of the camera (51200)
Recorded ISO in the image attached 560. Generally, ISO varies with pictures - 500, 72, 900, 2500,5000...
The shutter speed is 1/1000 unchanged - Manual (manual exposure).
I didn't use F8 because I wanted the shallow DOF.
I'll continue testingVisit my Nikonians gallery.
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#14. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 13
Tue 26-Jan-21 07:51 AM | edited Tue 26-Jan-21 08:42 AM by pixuresOK... Just wanted to rule out that auto iso settings for the hi ISO limit and minimum shutter speed were high enough to maintain the desired shutter speed for the resulting shots.
Perhaps there is something in this video that may help: . There is an example starting at around 7 minutes that is similar to what you are trying to do.
Ricci Talks on YouTube also has a video that contains segments of him moving briskly forward and side to side while the camera tracks his face.-
#18. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 14
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#19. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 14
Tue 26-Jan-21 09:42 AM>OK... Just wanted to rule out that auto iso settings for the
>hi ISO limit and minimum shutter speed were high enough to
>maintain the desired shutter speed for the resulting shots.
>
>Perhaps there is something in this video that may help:
>. There is an
>example starting at around 7 minutes that is similar to what
>you are trying to do.
>
>Ricci Talks on YouTube also has a video that contains segments
>of him moving briskly forward and side to side while the
>camera tracks his face.
>
Thank you
Saw the first clip - Model is mostly static or moving very slowly toward the camera or moving (including erratically) on the same focal plane (90 degrees to the camera) - at those situations, my hit rate is around 100% (96).
The problem begins when the subject is moving fast toward the camera (most challenging for all cameras).
Ricci is Nikon sponsored and there is no problem doing that for brief moments - no examples of continuous 14 FPS burst of 5-10 seconds.
I am still testing.
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#16. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 10
Tue 26-Jan-21 08:38 AMJust a bit of my experience, recently I was photographing some folks casually moving on a playground to experiment a bit with eye autofocus. I discovered masks DID make it more challenging for the camera to achieve focus when the subjects were wearing masks. When masks were removed, I was able to achieve focus much easier on their faces/eyes.Visit my Nikonians gallery.
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#20. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 16
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#15. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 7
When I press focus, the focus point run all over the frame.
I press 'OK' button, the focus point will return to the center of the frame. I used AF-ON button to focus (BBAF).
I focus again and the focus point will turn 'Green' which mean the subject is in focus and lock-on for tracking. Don't release the focus button till you finished your 14FPS. Hope it help.
Choong
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#17. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 15
Tue 26-Jan-21 09:19 AMThank you
Can you elaborate more about your settings because the focus point turns green only at AF-S, not at AF-C?
At AF-S it locks without changing, and at AF-S it at focus priority (a2) (do you change it to release priority?).
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#21. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 17
Wed 27-Jan-21 01:55 AM"the focus point turns green only at AF-S, not at AF-C"
You are right, my mistake.
My setting is at AF-C, Single point AF, a1 set to release priority.
Hope it help
You can have a look at Streve Perry ebook :Secrets to The Nikon Autofocus system:
https://bcgwebstore.com/product/secrets-to-the-nikon-autofocus-system-mirrorless-edition/
ChoongVisit my Nikonians gallery.
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#22. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 21
Wed 27-Jan-21 03:38 AM | edited Wed 27-Jan-21 03:39 AM by MeprstThank you for the elaboration
My settings are almost the same - except Dynamic AF, but I am "playing" with other settings especially to understand how the camera works in the most challenging situation when the subject closing fast toward the camera and 14 FPS.
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#23. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 22
Mon 01-Feb-21 09:39 AMHi again
After several days of bad weather, the sun is shining today, so I used it to test the camera again.
Settings -
Lens - 24-70 f4 (kit lens) - on 70mm
AF-C
Dynamic Area - 640/f6.3-7.1 (on P by mistake)
All other modes - Manual Exposure - 1000/7.1
14 FPS
Between 58-72 Shots Per Mode
The test - My sons running fast toward the camera (straight line)
Results (Hit Rate)-
Overall - Much better than previous
Dynamic - 80%
Wide Area Small - 91%
Wide Area Large People - 92%
Full Area People - 80% (Focus squares jumped around the subject until close distance)
Full Area People Tracking (Yellow Square) - 83% (Lost the subject several times)
It proves that Nikon AF performs much better in good light conditions - Is it enough? Can we expect for improvement?
The results - are they good? - Seems so, but not perfect.
In comparison to Canon/Sony - Don't know.
Is it enough for me - Yes - I saw some reviews saying that the outcome is very good considering the price tag.
Your opinions appreciated as usual.
Thank youVisit my Nikonians gallery.
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#24. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 23
Mon 01-Feb-21 10:21 AMThat's a pretty solid result. Anything at 90% is quite good.
Did you happen to notice any patterns with your misses?
Were you following the subject trying to keep your sons positioned in the same place in the frame, or letting the camera choose? Obviously for Wide Small and Dynamic you would need to follow them, but Wide Area allows you to keep them in a general area of the frame, and Area could allow you to let them move anywhere in the frame.
I don't think you'll have a problem with lower light conditions if the subject has good contrast. It may not pick up the face, but should pick up a bright shirt or bold contrast. You might try that in a future test with your sons. Have one wear a shirt or jacket with high contrast and bright colors, and another wear muted colors that are similar to the background or lack contrastEric Bowles
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#25. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 24
Mon 01-Feb-21 11:14 AMThe run was straight toward the camera.
In full area mode, I saw the focus squares jumping to surround buildings, traffic lights, other people. Except maybe 5-10 pictures (overall, out of 318) was totally out of focus - all others, something was in focus.
I was surprised that tracking (yellow square) lost the main subject several times even when the main subject was big and bright in the frame.
I'll try your suggestion.
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#26. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 25
Mon 01-Feb-21 01:01 PMThat's the down side of Area mode. It looks for strong contrast toward the middle of the frame. It does poorly when there are near, mid, and far potential subjects, or when the subject lacks contrast or definition.
As you change to Wide AF modes, you limit the area and have more control. It also can help with off center placement of your subject.Eric Bowles
Director - Nikonians Academy
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#27. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 26
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#28. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 27
Mon 01-Feb-21 04:31 PM | edited Mon 01-Feb-21 07:36 PM by rwbates53Here is a short video on the subject of auto focus tracking for the Z6ii.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzCOv1q-wio&fbclid=IwAR09qcIj2utHcSZNet9ovfcKt-Z5ixZFGLslyCQE-UzmogdZelt2KW-mHgY
RickVisit my Nikonians gallery.
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#29. "RE: AF and/or exposure tracking during 14 FPS ?" | In response to Reply # 27
Mon 08-Feb-21 03:52 PMHere I another video on AF tracking on Z6 (not even Z6 II). Something like 86% very sharp with BIF.
Looks like a well done test.Visit my Nikonians gallery.
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G
Do you think that there is no AF tracking at 14 FPS (between frames)?
BTW video mode is perfect - razor sharp.
Thank you all