Capture NX... yikes on price
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#1. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 0
jbloom Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Thu 01-Jun-06 08:07 AMIt's a good-news/bad-news situation. Yes, Capture NX looks pricey. Personally, I suspect they are pricing themselves out of the market. It seems unlikely that "U Point" technology will take world by storm, although my opinion about that should be considered uninformed since I haven't had a chance to try it. Failing that, as an image editor, PS Elements at < US$100 seems like a tough competitor to position against.
That's the bad news.
The good news is that they have separated Capture Control from the image editor. Those who don't want NX can get Control for a fairly reasonable price, and the upgrade cycles of the two products will no longer be locked together by marketing concerns. I'm surprised and pleased to see this, even though in the near term the copy of Control bundled with Capture 4.4 will suffice for me.
If user reports on Capture NX are positive (hello, bobj?) I may upgrade just to have it in my toolbox, but I suspect I wouldn't buy it new at that price.
-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports-
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#3. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 2
bobj Charter MemberThu 01-Jun-06 09:35 AMThe upgrade price is the same as the current retail price for NC 4.4. Doubling the cost sounds like a pricey upgrade to me!
Bob Johnson - Earthbound Light
Nature Photography from the Pacific Northwest and beyond
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#4. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 1
bobj Charter MemberThu 01-Jun-06 09:39 AM>If user reports on Capture NX are positive (hello, bobj?) I may
>upgrade just to have it in my toolbox, but I suspect I wouldn't buy
>it new at that price.
My first thoughts on NX, written when it was announced back in February:
http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/nikon-capture-nx.html
Now that the pricing has been announced, I'm even more confused. It you want NX plus camera control, this thing is expensive. Camera control alone is close in price to all of 4.4. Pretty gutsy of Nikon if you ask me.
Bob Johnson - Earthbound Light
Nature Photography from the Pacific Northwest and beyond-
#7. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 4
jbloom Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Thu 01-Jun-06 11:25 AM>My first thoughts on NX, written when it was announced back
>in February:
I read that, but I'm hoping to read some hands-on reactions from you and others. (Why should I be the guinea pig? )
>Now that the pricing has been announced, I'm even more
>confused. It you want NX plus camera control, this thing is
>expensive. Camera control alone is close in price to all of
>4.4. Pretty gutsy of Nikon if you ask me.
I started with the assumption that the price would go up, which is why I found it encouraging that they separated the two, even if the total price is a lot higher. I was concerned that just to get Capture Control would set you back $150+. Yes, if you want both it's a lot of dough, which is why I'm skeptical that NX will sell in large volume. I expect to see a substantial price reduction on NX by the end of the year.
-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports
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#5. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 0
At this rate, within a few years someone would be able to buy Photoshop, which is MUCH more powerful.
I forsee Capture disappearing from my computer.
Simplify
Cormorants
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#6. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 5
This is ridicioulus.
I've got the choice:
Having Capture NX and Camera Control for about 200 Euro
or going to get Capture 4.x for about 110 Euro (after having waited since March, when Nikon announced NX and not having clear information).
This is a bad deal anyway.
#9. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 0
Bibble Pro: $149
Capture One: $99 (LE), Pro $499
DXO Optics Pro: $79-$299
Raw Shooter Premium: currently on special for $59 (I think it used to be higher).
Raw Developer: $99
ACR: free if you buy PS CS2 for $700
Seems to me that Capture NX, which has some really unique features, is not overpriced at $150-- especially because it will, no doubt, continue to produce NEF conversions that are as good or superior to any of the 3rd party options. That has been my experience with Capture 4.4, at least.
Now, I do agree that it is a shame that Capture Control is extra. That is disappointing.
But at some point, it is useful to keep in mind that the cost of software will be passed on to the consumer one way or another.
Depending on how you look at it, what if Nikon had made Capture NX a $250 product because it included Control? You might say that you now have the choice to purchase as much or as little as you need. (OK, a little cheesy, but I hope you get the point).
As always, these products will have the all-important 30-day trial version, which will enable each of us, as consumers, to evaluate full working versions of these products before we buy them.
-Jason
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
www.luminescentphoto.com
Listen to The Image Doctors
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author: “Bird Photography with the Nikon Z9”
Co-Host "The Image Doctors" Photography Podcast
www.luminescentphoto.com
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#10. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 9
Bibble pro includes a tethered shooting capability. Capture One has tethered shooting for Canon cameras (wonder if that's related to Canon's willingness to provide communication specs?).
The superiority of Nikon Capture conversions isn't universally agreed upon.
I agree that doing the trial is the best way to go. Unless I'm very surprised by the performance of NX, I doubt I'll pony up the upgrade money.
A critical comparision you failed to mention: Fuji and Canon include their pro raw convertors and camera control software in the box with their DSLRs (I'm not sure if Canon does this for the lower line models, but it does with the 30D). That's my idea of how a DSLR should be packaged - at least for the mid to upper range. You really don't get the full performance of a DSLR without a robust raw converter. Nikon has some brass making you buy a wifi module and a separate software package to actually make it useful.
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#11. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 9
bobj Charter MemberThu 01-Jun-06 03:36 PMPS/CS2 also includes far more than ACR.
Are U-points really worth *THAT* much more? It strains credulity to think they could.
There are also other free converters out there that you don't list, DCRaw, for one.
Bob Johnson - Earthbound Light
Nature Photography from the Pacific Northwest and beyond-
#12. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 11
DrJay32 Nikonian since 11th Mar 2003Thu 01-Jun-06 04:14 PMI suppose we could debate what something is *worth* ad nauseum.
What I can say is that since I have been using Capture NX now since March, I think it will turn out to be a very nice software package. I can do things with U-points in one or two clicks that I have a much more challenging time doing in Photoshop.
Obviously, Capture (or any RAW converter for that matter) does not negate the usefulness of Photoshop. But I really only use PS now as the "final step" when preparing an image for output (web, print, whatever). I really don't need to make the kind of adjustments in PS that I used to when I scanned slides.
I too, wish it were "free", but of course there are costs associated with developing software. While Canon does give their converter away for free, I haven't really heard much about it other than complaints.
I think tethered shooting is nice, but for me it is not a deal breaker. I've only used Capture Control just for kicks. But then, I don't run a studio, either.
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
www.luminescentphoto.com
Listen to The Image Doctors
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author: “Bird Photography with the Nikon Z9”
Co-Host "The Image Doctors" Photography Podcast
www.luminescentphoto.com-
#14. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 12
bobj Charter MemberThu 01-Jun-06 06:17 PMThanks Jason.
For me, the jury is still out on NX, but I just wanted to add that I appreciate the info you and Rick are passing on here based on your beta testing.
Bob Johnson - Earthbound Light
Nature Photography from the Pacific Northwest and beyond -
#18. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 12
Jason:
What is the tethered shooting functinality referenced in the thread above? I am not familiar with this.
Thanks.
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#20. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 18
bobj Charter MemberFri 02-Jun-06 09:14 AMNikon Capture currently has a camera remote control feature that allows you to controls most shooting settings, and allows you to upload images directly to your computer via the USB cable as they are shot. This is an extra price add-on for NX rather than part of the product itself as it has been till now.
Bob Johnson - Earthbound Light
Nature Photography from the Pacific Northwest and beyond
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#22. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 12
The complaints about Canon's software closely parallel those for Nikon Capture. We Capture users had years of buggy versions, annoying installs that override Photoshop import filters, slow conversions, primitive batch processing and color management controls, a clumsy browser...the list does go on.
So it's not as if Nikon's track record suggests that a new application is necessarily going to be worth the asking price. Perhaps the Nik partnership will produce an application that will make up for the past sins of Capture and Nikon's other mediocre (at best) applications. I'll certainly give NX a try. But, for me at least, Nikon hasn't earned the benefit of a doubt when it comes to software.
And Nik's reputation is for offering decent Photoshop add-ons at irrationally high prices considering the price and performance of many competing tools. The seem to rely on the notion that if you charge a lot some folks will assume the product is better and buy it.
Put the two company profiles together and I suppose we should be happy NX isn't priced at $600.
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#40. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 22
"Put the two company profiles together and I suppose we should be happy NX isn't priced at $600."
Still chuckling over that one. Wickedly correct post BJ - from end to end.
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#27. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 9
Not once have I been able to get better results out of NC than I get with RawShooter and I used to try NC every time I thought just maybe I might get better results with a shot in question.
Noise reduction? Give me a break, it should be relabeled "detail reduction"
Sharpening? Not even in the same league as RawShooter (the free essentials or low priced premium). This was the item that sold me on RawShooter despite RawShooter lacking several features found in RAW converters other than NC.
Getting the perfect white balance? Nope, I can nail it INSTANTLY with RawShooter (essentials or premium).
Shadows, highlights? RawShooter (essentials or premium) automatically gets these in the ball park (some might say perfect) most of the time and with a little tweaking (and more things available to tweak than NC) RawShooter gets you the prefect settings.
Highlight Recovery? Not better than RawShooter BUT better than some of the other RAW converters.
Combined with NC Control, RawShooter premium provides a better tethered option than NC - RawShooter premium can display the image FULL SCREEN as soon as it hits your hard drive and provide RGB readings or a zoom box for any area you point to while in full screen mode.
I've only scratched the surface and when you factor in speed, NC doesn't hold a candle to anything and speed is absolutely critical to anyone who processes a lot of images.
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#28. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 27
briantilley Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 03-Jun-06 05:16 AMAs has been pointed out many times, the choice of RAW converter is very much a personal one. Just because you prefer the results from RawShooter does not mean that everyone else will.
Brian
Welsh Nikonian -
#29. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 27
robb Basic MemberSat 03-Jun-06 04:31 PMOK I am trying to see why you are raving about RawShooter so much..
So I jump over to Pixmantec website and download the link for rawshooter premium trial.. it says it is version 1.0.3 for windows.. my system more than meets their minimum requirements and installs fine, but every time I run it from the desktop shortcut it CRASHES!!
I have downloaded about every other raw converter tool and own ACR and Capture.. nothing has crashed out of the box like this. I am still eager to try it but this leaves a bad taste.
What version are you using?
Best Regards,
Rob
http://www.robbohningphotography.com
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. -- Psalm 19:1
Visit my Nikonians gallery.-
#32. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 29
>>every time I run it from the desktop shortcut it CRASHES!!<<
Really strange. That would turn me off big time! Hopefully it is a bug that somehow was overlooked in the update and the author will correct it ASAP. I'm running version 1.0.2 build 73 and saw no reason to upgrade.
Have you tried RawShooter essentials or many of the other 3rd party RAW converters?
And to anyone thinking I'm pushing RawShooter, well, no I'm not - it is the RAW converter I'm currently using so it is the one I compared NC to but I fell most 3rd party RAW converters will beat NC in just about everything NC does.
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#33. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 32
I just checked the RS forum and found the processor must have the SSE instruction set and that some video drivers can be problematic. If you lack SSE (old processor) you are out of luck, if it is video drivers a newer or older driver should do the trick.
This is the price paid to make it a fast program and it is very fast.
Not many reported crashes so it would APPEAR RS is plenty stable.
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#34. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 33
robb Basic MemberSat 03-Jun-06 09:34 PMI sent an email in to their support to see if they can help diagnose what is wrong...
About other raw converters, I have tried ACR, DXO, NCapture, and LightZone. I have found that NC for me does the best job and is the most predictable. Alot of it is due to Capture honoring the in-camera settings which gets me close upon opening the file itself. It is slow though, and so it will be interesting to see if NX addresses that in any way. If not, I probably wont buy it. ACR is OK but even after calibrating, I cant reliably get the starting points I can for differing picture environments that I can with Capture. (But I use PS for everything other than the base raw adjustments)
DXO, to me, has a very clumsy interface and the deal breaker there for me was the lack of full zoom -- in that it cant show actual pixels except for a rectangular preview pane that you must move around and wait while it processes each area. That was enough for me to stop the evaluation.
I havent tried the RawShooters essential, but hopefully they can get me sorted out on the crashing on the premium trial version.
Best Regards,
Rob
http://www.robbohningphotography.com
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. -- Psalm 19:1
Visit my Nikonians gallery. -
#39. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 33
robb Basic MemberMon 05-Jun-06 11:56 PMYou are right... in fairness to Pixmantec, I wanted to follow-up my post from the other day.. my CPU was not SSE able... it is an older Athlon. I apologize to them for my mistake on reading the requirements...
On another note, later that night I downloaded the trial of RSP to my laptop that had a PentiumIII with the SSE set and I was able to run that version. What I saw was impressive in terms of speed, GUI arrangement, and overall feel of the software. Now I need to decide whether to go out and spend the 50 bucks for an Athlon XP CPU so I can try it on a fully color managed desktop....
Best Regards,
Rob
http://www.robbohningphotography.com
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. -- Psalm 19:1
Visit my Nikonians gallery.-
#47. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 39
A good software would check the CPU for SSE and give a correct error message instead of just crashing.
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#49. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 47
robb Basic MemberFri 16-Jun-06 11:25 AMI agree with you on that point 100%...
Just to offer an opinion on the Rawshooter Premium software...
I like its GUI and workflow better than any other raw converter out there, it is fast and simple... The raw conversion quality was very close to that of Nikon Capture for most landscape images. But for portraits and for getting accurate skin tones, especially for baby pictures, nothing so far IMHO has been as good as Capture. I may buy RSP for the $59 they are asking, I think its worth it, especially for quickly converting lots of images from vacations, trips, and the like... But I probably will look at NX to see if their workflow has improved in terms of speed and file management because so far Capture has delivered the best raw conversion qquality as a whole (in my case).
Best Regards,
Rob
http://www.robbohningphotography.com
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. -- Psalm 19:1
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
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#31. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 30
DrJay32 Nikonian since 11th Mar 2003Sat 03-Jun-06 08:37 PMWhoops. I stand corrected, Eric.
Thanks for pointing that out.
-Jason
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
www.luminescentphoto.com
Listen to The Image Doctors
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author: “Bird Photography with the Nikon Z9”
Co-Host "The Image Doctors" Photography Podcast
www.luminescentphoto.com
#13. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 0
The lack of REASONABLE upgrade pricing, especially considering the recent complete lack of upgrade path, plus the lack of what (to me) are serious holes, make it difficult for me to justify spending the money on the upgrade. I can afford the upgrade. It's just that, for that price, I see no real reason to do so.
The cost of the upgrade to Capture NX ($89), without camera control, is virtually the same price ($99) as Capture.
Having said that, I'm more proficient with Photoshop, and as I become more so, the lure of Capture, even for tricky WB situations, becomes less and less compelling. Those who are more proficient with Capture may well hold the opposing view.
When Capture NX actually hits the shelves, and both experienced and new users begin to use it, we'll have a better idea of whether or not it's worth the cost of upgrading.
Simplify
Cormorants
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#15. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 13
jbloom Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Thu 01-Jun-06 09:52 PM>When Capture NX actually hits the shelves, and both
>experienced and new users begin to use it, we'll have a
>better idea of whether or not it's worth the cost of
>upgrading.
I agree. This is one time I have no desire to be on the bleeding edge.
In my case, the value is also diminished by my switch to an Aperture workflow. Aperture doesn't play very well with external RAW processors -- it wants to use its own -- so I use NC (or ACR) only when I have a compelling reason to, which is seldom.
-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports -
#16. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 13
DrJay32 Nikonian since 11th Mar 2003Thu 01-Jun-06 11:44 PMFunny, I'm the reverse. While I was never a total Photoshop geek, I was fairly proficient at using it (I started somewhere with a copy of PS 2.5, I think).
The more I use Capture (and now testing Capture NX), the LESS I find myself using PS. Not because I don't want to, but because I don't need to.
PS has become the step in my workflow where I do the final touches on an image, like sharpening etc, for printing, soft-proofing, and the like.
I also find PS invaluable for resizing images for web use, adding text, and doing really creative things like borders and such.
But for my "bread and butter" processing, which involves fixing exposure, white balance, saturation and tone curves, I do almost all of that in Capture now. A year ago I never would have even thought that would have been the case.
The wonderful thing about this world is the choices we have as consumers, and as photographers.
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
www.luminescentphoto.com
Listen to The Image Doctors
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author: “Bird Photography with the Nikon Z9”
Co-Host "The Image Doctors" Photography Podcast
www.luminescentphoto.com-
#17. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 16
bobj Charter MemberThu 01-Jun-06 11:54 PM>But for my "bread and butter" processing, which involves
>fixing exposure, white balance, saturation and tone curves,
>I do almost all of that in Capture now.
But wouldn't you do this in whatever raw converter you were using? All of these sound like common raw settings that ACR or anything else would do (well, anything other than the old Nikon Photoshop plugin which, by the way, is it finally gone?). Clearly NX can do more than just this, but the examples you give aren't really emphasising those added capabilities.
Bob Johnson - Earthbound Light
Nature Photography from the Pacific Northwest and beyond-
#19. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 17
"All of these sound like common raw settings that ACR or anything else would do"
True, but I am probably in the same boat as Jason in that I prefer the results that I get with NC/NX? to other convertors.
That's not to say that other convertors can't match or beat the Nikon offerings but down to personal tastes and/or workflow preferences.
It must be good that we have options, and the number of options are growing - eventually
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"RE: Capture NX... yikes on price"
DrJay32 Nikonian since 11th Mar 2003Wed 16-Jan-08 10:11 AMI get some really hideous conversion artifacts when using ACR that I don't see in NC.
Here's an example.
Full image shot as NEF, converted in NC.
100% crops showing detail from NC and ACR.
Don't worry about the color differences-- I didn't spend any time with ACR adjusting the color curves.
-Jason
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
www.luminescentphoto.com
Listen to The Image Doctors
Attachment#1 (jpg file)
Attachment#2 (jpg file)
Attachment#3 (jpg file)
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author: “Bird Photography with the Nikon Z9”
Co-Host "The Image Doctors" Photography Podcast
www.luminescentphoto.com-
#21. "Que?" | In response to Reply # 0
Uh, what am I looking at? If the top crop is from NC, it looks like noise reduction is turned on and you've lost considerable detail at the high noise reduction setting. Vice versa if the converter sequence is reversed.
I don't see conversion artifacts, I see unequal noise reduction processing.
And real differences between ACR and NC conversions are very subtle if you bother to equalize the settings for a fair comparison. I use both, and I'm very particular about my conversions.
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#63. "RE: Que?" | In response to Reply # 21
DrJay32 Nikonian since 11th Mar 2003Wed 16-Jan-08 10:11 AMYou are looking at 100% crops.
I'll send you the NEF if you want.
I reprocessed the image:
NR turned off in NC4
A little noise, yes, but no weird blotches or moire' in the shirt itself, IMO.
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
www.luminescentphoto.com
Listen to The Image Doctors
Attachment#1 (jpg file)
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author: “Bird Photography with the Nikon Z9”
Co-Host "The Image Doctors" Photography Podcast
www.luminescentphoto.com
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#23. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 0
TiggerGTO Nikonian since 22nd Feb 2006Fri 02-Jun-06 05:34 PMThe top image looks too soft. Except for the stitching near the collar, there's no texture in the material. In the bottom you can see the weave of the material, but it looks a little overly sharpened. Is that what you're calling the "hideous conversion artifacts"?
Danny
A Nikonian in North Carolina-
#25. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 23
walkerr Registered since 05th May 2002Fri 02-Jun-06 06:50 PMI've seen what Jason is referring to in uncompressed images. ACR sometimes creates images that have randomly shaped rectangular holes in the pixel pattern. It's not an issue of texture in the shirt, it's an absence of image information in specific parts of the image. The same exact image converted with Capture won't have this problem. I've seen it occuring with a number of D2X and D200 images.
Rick Walker
My photos:
GeoVista Photography -
#26. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 23
DrJay32 Nikonian since 11th Mar 2003Fri 02-Jun-06 10:07 PMI know what you mean, but in the ACR image, I didn't apply any USM-- just a basic amount of sharpening (I think it's set at 25%) in ACR.
Neither of these images were processed further in Photoshop.
The issue isn't the weave of the shirt, although I think that is partially what is causing some moiré or other issue in the ACR image.
The two programs clearly have different processing algorithms.
Whatever NC is doing, I find I tend to prefer it.
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
www.luminescentphoto.com
Listen to The Image Doctors
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author: “Bird Photography with the Nikon Z9”
Co-Host "The Image Doctors" Photography Podcast
www.luminescentphoto.com
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#35. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 0
I've seen this before with red colors in ACR and often correcting the WB fixes it. It is a commonly reported issue with ACR.
I'm also noticing with the NC one even with NR off some detail seems to be lost though not that bad - with NR on it was unacceptable.
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#36. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 35
DrJay32 Nikonian since 11th Mar 2003Sun 04-Jun-06 05:14 PMYes, there is something about the way ACR processes "in camera" WB that seems a little bit off to me. Reds are rendered quite differently in ACR using default settings.
As for the detail loss, I wouldn't really mind at a normal print size. Mind you, these are 1:1 crop views of the original frame.
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
www.luminescentphoto.com
Listen to The Image Doctors
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author: “Bird Photography with the Nikon Z9”
Co-Host "The Image Doctors" Photography Podcast
www.luminescentphoto.com
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#24. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 0
Press Room->Latest News->Our Latest Product News
to see Camera Control Pro for £30 or Euros44.
Go to Product Finder->Software to see product details.
Retail outlets are advertising Capture NX for £120, the same as Capture 4.4.
Couldn't see any info on upgrade paths.
Wonder of US prices can be estimated from this?
I was considering downloading Capture 4.4 fro $99, about half of UK price. Will wait to see US download prices.
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#37. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 24
TXCiclista Registered since 15th May 2006Sun 04-Jun-06 08:02 PMAssuming you have NC 4.x, why would you need to buy Control with the NX package (unless you buy a D2Xs)? Couldn't you install them side-by-side and just use the Control application from 4.x? Is there some legality here that maybe I don't know of? Or is "Control NX" that much better?
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This is my Nikon. There are many like it, but this one is mine!-
#38. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 37
DrJay32 Nikonian since 11th Mar 2003Sun 04-Jun-06 08:15 PMValid point.
Not much at all is known about Capture Control Pro.
One thing I know is that it is being developed separately from Capture NX.
Given that my installation of Capture NX has not disabled my existing version of capture control, maybe the two could coexist. Of course that means you would still need to purchase Capture 4.4 before NX comes out if you haven't already.
-Jason
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
www.luminescentphoto.com
Listen to The Image Doctors
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author: “Bird Photography with the Nikon Z9”
Co-Host "The Image Doctors" Photography Podcast
www.luminescentphoto.com-
#41. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 38
TXCiclista Registered since 15th May 2006Tue 06-Jun-06 08:34 AMThat might be a good move. Capture 4 + NX would cost much less than NX + Control and you'd have two useable versions of the software + Control which could be advantageous (again, if you don't have a D2Xs). Though I guess my comment was more for those who had it already, but... "yeah"
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This is my Nikon. There are many like it, but this one is mine!-
#42. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 41
I purchased Cature 4.4 in April, well after Capture NX was announced with then I believe a release date in a may or june. I spend $99.00. Now from what I am reading, I will be allowed to upgrade for $89.00 when the software comes out next month. in 3 months I will have spent $178.00 for this software.
When I purchased the software I was under the impression that Nikon would not charge me twice. I guess I was wrong.
$99.00 for Capture 4.4 seems to be a very high price for software that will be discontinued in the next few months.
Am I missing something or did Nikone just completely rip me off?
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#43. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 42
Reading through this, I though you guys were joking about the pricing.
Let me get this straight . . . We spend a huge amount of money on our cameras, speedlights and lenses. Many of us have spent a pile o' money on our tripods and heads, bags and other gear . . . Some memory cards are well over $100 . . .
$150 is too much for the best software to get the best results from all of the above investment??
I don't understand that attitude, especially since PS CS2's cost. Besides . . . "with a show of hands" how many you Nikonians have actually purchased their software? How many of you will wait to "get it from a friend?" Hmm . . . I thought so.
I'll gladly spend $150.00 for Capture NX . . . less than 5% of what I have invested so far.
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#44. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 43
bobj Charter MemberThu 15-Jun-06 12:59 PMPurchasing your software is the law. "Getting it from a friend" is illegal and not something to be recommended on Nikonians.
On the cost issue, NX represents a significant increase in price over the current version of Capture. As such, it has become a topic of discussion. Once it ships, it will be easier for people to judge if the added cost is warranted. Right now, all that people can do is complain about inflation.
Photoshop CS2 does a lot more than even Capture NX does, so comparing price is not entirely valid. Granted though that if what CS2 does above and beyond what NX will isn't anything you need, the added cost is best saved, making NX a great choice. Many users who currently rely on Photoshop will find they still need to, although some may find they can now dispense with it. I can guarantee you that I will keep using Photoshop at least, even if I do upgrade to NX.
As for it being "the best software to get the best results," this is debatable, especially since it has not yet shipped. Stating this definitively now is merely to repeat Nikon's marketting line. Once it does ship, people can evaluate it for themselves. There are lots of raw converters out there, and not everyone prefers the same one. I do not expect this to change with the release of NX.
Bob Johnson - Earthbound Light
Nature Photography from the Pacific Northwest and beyond-
#45. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 44
I DIDN'T suggest to anyone that they should break the law.
Good point, once it's oficially released we'll be better able to judge for ourselves weather it's worth the increased price.
As you say, people are complaining about inflation. I feel that people are complaining because they can . . .
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#46. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 45
bobj Charter MemberThu 15-Jun-06 03:42 PMI'll take your word for it, but I can't see how else to interpret "Besides . . . 'with a show of hands' how many you Nikonians have actually purchased their software? How many of you will wait to 'get it from a friend?' Hmm . . . I thought so."
Bob Johnson - Earthbound Light
Nature Photography from the Pacific Northwest and beyond-
#48. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 46
hrbaan Registered since 29th Oct 2005Fri 16-Jun-06 03:21 AMBob, I didn't read the statement as a motion for breaking the law. I read it more as a statement that many people tend not to buy their software, but "borrow" it for an indefinite time. This is, however bad, a fair statement of reality.
Based on my experience with Capture to date and all reviews so far on NX, I for one will definitely buy NX, even at $150 or whatever. Just hope it hits the stores soon and that it has the same, free, update cycle as Capture itself had. Heck, every new 4.x version wasn't just a bug fix but a real improvement with added functionality, and that for free. Keep that up Nikon!
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Hayo Baan
When it's time to stop living, I will certainly make Death my number one choice!Terry Pratchett, The Last ContinentHayo Baan – Photography
e-mail: info@hayobaan.nl
web: www.hayobaan.nl
blog: blog.hayobaan.nl
500px: 500px.com/HayoBaan-
#52. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 48
bobj Charter MemberFri 16-Jun-06 01:42 PMI don't recall anything in the license agreement permitting one to borrow the software for an indefinite time. This still sounds like an attempt to avoid paying for a license. Call it what you will, but doing so is a violation of the license agreement.1.GRANT OF LICENSE
Nikon grant you a nonexclusive license ("LICENSE") which allows you to:
a) Use the SOFTWARE only on any single computer. You must obtain a supplementary license from Nikon before using the SOFTWARE in connection with systems, multiple central processing unit, computer networks, or emulations on a mainframe or mini computer
If you want to "borrow" Nikon Capture, Nikon themselves offers 30 day free trials. Beyond that period though, you would be expected to purchase a license.
Bob Johnson - Earthbound Light
Nature Photography from the Pacific Northwest and beyond-
#56. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 52
TXCiclista Registered since 15th May 2006Sun 18-Jun-06 11:22 PMBob, I don't think either of the posters is affirming that practice, merely stating that this kind of behavior is fairly common. It's safe to say that more than a few photogs will "borrow" a copy from their friend to avoid paying the $150. This is why activation schemes are becoming common. I think all of you are agreeing, just not seeing it
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This is my Nikon. There are many like it, but this one is mine!
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#59. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 46
cbeckner80 Registered since 22nd Jan 2006Fri 23-Jun-06 09:08 PMI believe you can read into it the Sarcasm.
Visit my Nikonians gallery.
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#50. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 44
DrJay32 Nikonian since 11th Mar 2003Fri 16-Jun-06 12:13 PMBob makes a good point about Photoshop. It does PLENTY of things that RAW converters just don't do. Capture NX adds some features that reduce the need for Photoshop in some areas, but depending on how you shoot, may not reduce the need for Photoshop in other areas.
To expand on Bob's point about "money saved" by not purchasing Photoshop, I think there is a corollary to that point, namely saving money by not upgrading Photoshop immediately when CS3 comes out.
I was happy with PS7, but CS was substantially better. Then I got my D2X and ACR was not even an option without getting CS2. So I upgraded-- mostly for the added convenience of using ACR with my NEFs. However, while I like many of the other features that CS2 added, they probably would not have been worth my while to run out and upgrade from CS.
I believe CS3 is still a year out. I'm sure it will be better than CS2. But I don't know if there will be the same kind of "arm twisting" need to upgrade for me-- unless I somehow purchase an Intel-based PowerMac by then (CS3 will be a Universal Binary, from what I hear).
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
www.luminescentphoto.com
Listen to The Image Doctors
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author: “Bird Photography with the Nikon Z9”
Co-Host "The Image Doctors" Photography Podcast
www.luminescentphoto.com-
#51. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 50
The reason I compared the cost of NX to the cost of CS2 is because I see a trend away from the "Frankenstein's Monster" that photoshop has become. I appreciate this trend. It seems to me that we'll have more cost-effective choices in software designed for photographers.
Yes, Photoshop does an aweful lot compared to what RAW converters can do, but for now it remains an essential and expensive part of most of our workflows. I don't need all of PS CS2's pre-press capabilities for what I do. Depsite that, I have it for what it does well for my purposes.
In terms of dollars per features that I'll use, NC-NX @$150 will very likely be a much better buy.
Perhaps Lightroom is Adobe's answer to this. Maybe a Lightroom / NC-NX combo will be the "power combo" of 2006?!
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#53. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 51
walkerr Registered since 05th May 2002Fri 16-Jun-06 03:44 PMOne other option that exists for RAW photographers on a budget is Elements 4.0. Elements has improved quite a bit since its early versions and now contains a version of the Adobe RAW converter. On a constrained budget, I'd probably consider it as well as the free Rawshooter Essentials program. You'd have the option of two RAW conversion paths (both with different attributes) as well as a reasonably robust imaging editor. No RAW converter produced to date (including NX) removes all requirements for a Photoshop-like editing program, but they're getting a lot closer. I'm pretty certain this is a trend that will continue.
Rick Walker
My photos:
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#54. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 51
Maybe Lightroom will do all most folks need and a pimped-out converter like Capture NX won't be a necessary appendage. Nikon might squeeze me for Camera Control as a separate application but not if it requires NX as a front end. And if Camera Control isn't substantially improved over the current primitive implementation, I'll spend my software budget on other tools.
As far as economics goes, when you find the first dust spec, hot pixel or blemish you want to retouch, you've exceeded the capacity of Nikon's "image editing" application.
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#60. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 54
DrJay32 Nikonian since 11th Mar 2003Fri 23-Jun-06 10:25 PM>As far as economics goes, when you find the first dust spec,
>hot pixel or blemish you want to retouch, you've exceeded
>the capacity of Nikon's "image editing" application.
Technically, that's not true-- there is a "dust removal" feature in Capture 4.4
It requires that you photograph a blank wall or piece of paper so it can use that image as a "reference". However, I agree that Photoshop is the tool of choice for that kind of editing.
When I find a dust speck, I clean my sensor.
-Jason
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
www.luminescentphoto.com
Listen to The Image Doctors
Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author: “Bird Photography with the Nikon Z9”
Co-Host "The Image Doctors" Photography Podcast
www.luminescentphoto.com
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#55. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 43
>Nikonians have actually purchased their software? How many
>of you will wait to "get it from a friend?"
Err .. yes, I bought my software.
I also bought my camera, instead of stealing it from the local store.
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#57. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 55
kbird Basic MemberMon 19-Jun-06 03:18 AMNice one Jeremy. Strangely enough I bought mine too.
Ken Bird
Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Ken Bird
Shropshire, UK-
#58. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 57
I, of course, bought mine too.
The concerns about the price in this thread gave me the impression that some of those folks may opt to obtain the software illegally.
Whatever.
We'll all just wait and see how much "bang for our bucks" we'll get with this software.
I wonder if it comes with an HDR tool?
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#61. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 58
I am a software developer so I do what I preach on licensing. Having seen what I have seen and having read posts in another photog forum (I no longer visit) where people were advised on how to avoid buying CS2 licenses, I reckon that there must be at least 10 illegal (or permanently on trial) copies to 1 legal copy of CS2 out there. This is a very sad thing indeed. Perhaps this is down to the high price of CS2. I think it is true to say that the higher the price of a piece of software, the more likely that people will copy it if they find it useful and needed it. Please note. I am NOT justifying piracy. There is NO justification for software piracy in whatever shape or form. I do not use CS2 myself because I can’t justify forking out that much money for what I want from it. I use GIMP instead but only when I need to e.g. completely change a background or do some imaging trick. I use two other pieces of software namely, Picasa2 and RawShooter Essential. Both are completely free. I found the combination of software I use to be adequate but not ideal, particularly the workflow. I have been contemplating whether I should upgrade to RawShooter Premium. Now that Capture NX is available (or soon will be), I will gladly fork out £120 for it if the U-Point technology really works. From what I have seen, there is no reason to doubt its capabilities. IMHO, Capture NX is a true photographer’s tool. If it does what it says on the tin, then the next generation of photographers’ tools has indeed arrived. I can’t wait to get my hands on it.
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#62. "RE: Capture NX... yikes on price" | In response to Reply # 0
For my needs, it practically does away with the need for Photoshop which is significantly more expensive. Now I'm not saying it's better than Photoshop as it's not by miles, *but* for my needs it does almost everything I would use Photoshop for anyway (I bet I probably only use 5% of Photoshop's features anyway). I'd use Photoshop Elements but it lacks features that you need for raw processing.
Big thing about all versions of Capture anyway is they are still the only products that will properly read NEF files including in-camera settings and those re-saved into NEFs.
All other raw converters are just that, converting from raw. Problem with that is you are starting from scratch every time you open an image. With Capture you get the curves and/or any other in-camera settings that are adjustments from raw, but with the power to go back to raw. For workflow, to me it's the least hassle. Not to mention the basic adjustment features are so much easier to use in Capture than they are in Photoshop. From what I'm reading about NX they'll be even easier.
So for me, if I can do without Photoshop, it's a significant saving (including on hardware as CS2 and beyond is getting a heavy drain on resources).
Anyway. $150... that's peanuts. Cheap and chearful photo edit packages cost not much less than that. Think yourself lucky you're not in the UK anyway, it's £120 here (works out at $216 at the current exchange rate)!! Still good value though.
As for, "it should be free". Well they could just add it to the price of the camera . On the other hand you can argue that for pro quality workflow it's worth the extra, but otherwise you can just shoot in JPEG if you want free.
G
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-7895-8361
Ouch, no Capture NX for me anytime soon... Maybe Capture 4.4 will go on discount soon though, eh?