I had owned a D800 for about 2 weeks and returned it when I discovered the focusing problem, and mine also had a metering problem.

I find it unbelievable that so many Nikonians are pining over not getting their D800s when so many other Nikonians have reported focus problems and are sending them back in droves to Nikon to have the defect corrected. It is even more incomprehensible to me that anyone would want to buy a $3,000.00 camera knowing that they may have to send it into Nikon for immediate service before using it without knowing whether or not the camera can be fixed in the near future.

I know that there are many of us who have, or think that they have, received flawless copies, but why would anyone risk $3,000.00 on this camera until Nikon gives us some answers?

Or to analogize, would you stand in line to eat at a restaurant when you knew that there was a 10% chance that you would leave with an acute case of Salmonella?

Maybe I'm missing something (and my wife assures me that I am).

Respectfully yours,


P.T. Barnum

There could be a quality issue with you D800. Many of us have the camera and are amazed at its capabilities.

http://galleries.gorji.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

First of all, a D800 won't kill you or even make you sick. So let's dispense with than analogy.

The D800 is a significant advance over other cameras, no question. That is has bugs and isn't perfect is unfortunate, but not completely unheard of.

Nikon will fix the bugs, and the people who have a D800 now will likely have a repaired, fully functioning camera before those that are still waiting. As for whether this is a problem with all of the units and people are sending them back in "droves" or is is less frequent, I have not seen the statistics that make a case one way or another.

I think this has more to do with your lack of patience and expectations, than it does with a serious problem or stupidity on other peoples' part.

As for me, I've decide to get a D800e and am patiently waiting for one of the vendors to fill my order.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

>First of all, a D800 won't kill you or even make you sick. So let's dispense with than analogy.

Agreed!

>The D800 is a significant advance over other cameras, no question. That is has bugs and isn't perfect is unfortunate, but not completely unheard of.

Agreed!

>Nikon will fix the bugs, and the people who have a D800 now will likely have a repaired, fully functioning camera before those that are still waiting. As for whether this is a problem with all of the units and people are sending them back in "droves" or is is less frequent, I have not seen the statistics that make a case one way or another.

I'm not so sure that you're right, but that was really my point.

>As for me, I've decide to get a D800e and am patiently waiting for one of the vendors to fill my order.

That was, again, the reason for my post, to warn the unknowing.

"Beware, there is a sucker born every minute."

P.T Barnum

I tend to agree with your analysis. I think it's part of the upgrade mania.

Cheers ...

http://salfic.squarespace.com/

I have not upgraded from any other Nikon camera. I bought the d800e along with the lenses I felt to need, because it plays in a different league. I like sharp, large prints, and this camera gives me by and large the same as a camera for 10- or 20000§ or €.

I have used this camera for a few weeks now, made a superficial focus test with my two autofocus lenses (which they appeared to pass, have to redo it more carefully), but have not at all tested all the camera's focus and other programs yet (I very much doubt I will ever need them all, my tendency being rather to get well used to one or two which suit my way of taking pictures).

The results I get are, by and large, amazing: the dynamic range, the shadows I can really dig into, and first and foremost, the details, the sharpness, the details, and, of course, the details.

I am normally quite critical about the craze for the newest and the idea that the best pictures come from the most expensive equipment, having made some of my best pictures with self-made pinhole cameras, and this one was the most expensive camera I ever bought, but it was, as far as I can tell now, worth every penny.

Lukas

Trying to be a keeper of the light

I am also disappointed with Nikon's quality control this time. Having seen an AF issue in 3 bodies, and looking at the poll in the other thread, it looks to me this issue is not a rare occurrence. As to your question why so many Nikonian's are still clamoring for this camera: Either they are skeptical of reports that many cameras have a flaw, or they hope they will get "lucky". Both are perfectly normal human reactions. I didn't believe it either. After the first body with the issue, I still though this must be an outlier.

Tom
Bay Area Nikonian

http://www.tkphoto.me/

Tom

I totally agree with you.

jP

>I had owned a D800 for about 2 weeks and returned it when I
>discovered the focusing problem, and mine also had a metering
>problem.

There's a focus problem? I've been so busy putting frames through mine, and shooting the best work of my life, that I hadn't noticed.

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Perrone

Good for you! I'm happy for you, and I'm sure that those of us that have had focus problems with ours are also happy for you!

Why wouldn't we be?

>There's a focus problem?

I thought that I read a post about this, but it must have been my imagination

jP

Attachment #1, ( file)

>There's a focus problem? I've been so busy putting frames
>through mine, and shooting the best work of my life, that I
>hadn't noticed.

Seconded! I checked mine, no issues, and the D800e is so sharp, its scary

Visit My Website Nikon Fanboy.

Just got mine a couple of days ago. No problems with the camera. The only problems I'm having is with my handholding technique. Couldn't be happier with the camera.

>I had owned a D800 for about 2 weeks and returned it when I
>discovered the focusing problem, and mine also had a metering
>problem.
>
>I find it unbelievable that so many Nikonians are pining over
>not getting their D800s when so many other Nikonians have
>reported focus problems and are sending them back in droves
>to Nikon to have the defect corrected. It is even more
>incomprehensible to me that anyone would want to buy a
>$3,000.00 camera knowing that they may have to send it into
>Nikon for immediate service before using it without knowing
>whether or not the camera can be fixed in the near future.
>
>I know that there are many of us who have, or think that they
>have, received flawless copies, but why would anyone risk
>$3,000.00 on this camera until Nikon gives us some answers?
>
>Or to analogize, would you stand in line to eat at a
>restaurant when you knew that there was a 10% chance that you
>would leave with an acute case of Salmonella?
>
>Maybe I'm missing something (and my wife assures me that I
>am).
>
>Respectfully yours,
>
>
>P.T. Barnum
>
>
>
>
>
>
Despite a touch of soft focus on the L sided AF points, I couldn't be happier with my D800E. I can't seem to put the thing down even when I'm not out getting images. No other camera has had this effect on me in a long time. For the sheer pleasure of photography that this camera brings to me, is why I would buy the D800E again.

Actually,

The Salmonella analogy is quite suiting and probably correct. Food-borne Salmonellosis is most likely caused by Salmonella Enterica or more specifically -- Salmonella non-typhoidal subspecies.

It causes gastroenteritis with typical symptoms like:
(1) nausea
(2) vomiting
(3) non-bloody diarrhea
(4) most people get over it without any need for medication within 2 to 7 days.

Mick, I don't know why you think it's not comparable. If I knew I just paid $3K cold hard cash for a stub, I would have reacted the same way.

superfly

The AF problem reported by some is apparently corrected by a revised calibration procedure, not a design flaw or defect. Since many are fine, including mine as best as I can tell having had it for just a couple hours, the problem is likely to have been traced to one particular test calibration station at the end of assembly which might have been either used improperly or was out of tolerance itself. The reason for that assumption is the ease with which re-calibration has resolved the problem on the left side in the few service centers that are aware of the issue and new procedures.
The temp work around until someone can send their D800 in for calibration at a qualified service center is to simply not select further most left focal points.
The alternative is to do without the performance of the rest of the camera that is churning out spectacular images altogether and return it.
Those with a little patience, are being rewarded handsomely.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

I responded in the poll that I had no left AF problem, but after some more careful testing, I would say that I do. It only makes itself readily apparent when I'm using a wide lens on its most open aperture at longer distances. Okay, I understand why I didn't notice before - I never do that under normal conditions. My camera's calibration problem appears to be less pronounced than most reports. I think it's possible that this affects more cameras than is apparent and that some are closer to true than others.

I'll wait to get mine adjusted. The big shoot that I want to use the D800 for is in June and it's mostly telephoto work. I don't anticipate any need for bizarre mid distance wide shots with no depth of field in the meantime, and if by chance I need such a shot, I'll use live view CDAF.

Don't visit my Nikonians gallery yet. It's empty.

>The AF problem reported by some is apparently corrected by a revised calibration procedure, not a design flaw or defect. Since many are fine, including mine as best as I can tell having had it for just a couple hours, the problem is likely to have been traced to one particular test calibration station at the end of assembly which might have been either used improperly or was out of tolerance itself. The reason for that assumption is the ease with which re-calibration has resolved the problem on the left side in the few service centers that are aware of the issue and new procedures.
The temp work around until someone can send their D800 in for calibration at a qualified service center is to simply not select further most left focal points.
The alternative is to do without the performance of the rest of the camera that is churning out spectacular images altogether and return it.
Those with a little patience, are being rewarded handsomely.

Thanks Stan. If I still owned a defective D800, this would make me feel a lot better.

jP

I shot over 3,000 frames with my new D800 last week in AZ. I took many HDR shots on tripod, but I also took a number of people shots while hand holding the camera.

You can see some of the hand-held people shots at (the last half of the album):
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3327152250539.141942.1020396151&type=3&l=0ce297ebd0

I never had a metering problem nor an AF problem. In fact, I shot hand held from 1/30 up with a 24-70mm f2.8 with total success. I also shot with ISO from 100 to 3200 while hand holding. No problems. Also VERY low noise.

My only focus problem occurred when I shot to slow for the people movement in the slot canyons where it was pretty dark.

There may be some bad ones coming off the line, but that happens with many products when they are first released.

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

WOW! Excellent images, thank you for sharing.

Monument Valley and Slot Canyons (Page Arizona with Winston C Hall). right?

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy

Yes, Winston Hall was our Nikonions trek leader. He has a D800 and a D4 and knows them inside and out...even though he has only had the D800 a short time. He is also an expert at HDR and teaches it well while in trek.

Winston is the first mentor or trek leader that I have traveled with who knows HDR. It was refreshing to have such an expert with us.

He also knows Arizona inside and out. He took us to places I have never seen, and I have been traveling to AZ every time I can for 30 years.

It was, hands down, the best trek I have been on because of the HDR work. Of course, the weather was fabulous which always helps.

If you go, go out early and visit the Gouldings Lodge near the entrance to the Monument Valley Tribal Park and have some of their great Indian food. Also visit Mexican Hat in Utah.

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

The thing I dislike the most about my D800 is when I do editing in LR4 and I do skin retouching and when zooming in on a face I can see every pimple on the persons face :{

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit Windsor wedding photographer.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Use the Nik Color Efex Pro plug-in. It has a preset to fix too much details in a face. Women love the outcome!

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

cool, thanks, what is the preset called ?

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit Windsor wedding photographer.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

The preset is in the Portrait folder and is called Dynamic Skin Softener. The Topaz Adjust plug-in has a similar filter selection...I forget its name, but you will recognize it in the preset list.

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

To get back to the original forum thread title, I found these images on a very rare visit to dpreview I would like to share. What I liked was the broad variety of wildlife examples with a landscape too. I was suitably impressed.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=41516616

Richard

Visit my Nikonians gallery

>The thing I dislike the most about my D800 is when I do
>editing in LR4 and I do skin retouching and when zooming in on
>a face I can see every pimple on the persons face :{

every pore, in crazy detail!

Visit My Website Nikon Fanboy.

Great imagery. Some of the images do look a tad soft and I am assuming this is due to slow shutter speeds. But I'd be curious to be able to see the exif information for these photos to see how fast you need to shoot to handhold the camera with razor sharp images. (Yes I realize that everyone's technique is also a huge factor, but this information would give me a starting point.)

Send me your e-mail address and I will give you access to the people images and data.

larry.jordan.pe@gmail.com

I actually never did much processing on the ones you see on FB. I now have a set that I spent some time processing in CS6 and ACR 7.1. The ISO range was 100 to 3200.

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

Like some of the other writers, I have had my D800E for about two weeks now. Maybe I was lucky, but I have experienced no problems of any kind.

To get back to the original question, people buy the camera in the hope of getting the quality of images that are normally only available on medium format.

I mostly shoot landscapes and am simply blown away by the resolution and quality obtained. The camera certainly tests lenses and hand holding practice like no other. Place it on a tripod and use a good lens and you'll be over the moon as well.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

I use the left focal points while making movies.
Perhaps the lower resolution mask any adverse effects?

I have also checked in my VeiwFinder and still photos and see no problems when using the left side focus points.

If my wife wanted to upgrade her D7000, I would not hesitate to order a 2nd D800 or a D800e.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

I have a D800, and I still have a D800E on pre-order from Adorama since 2/7. I intend to have/shoot both. This machine is just incredible!

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

Read the thread. and umm...OK then.

Gear woes, sometimes occur, happens in broadcast and recording business as well as imagery.

Stan's response was the most appropriate, and is touched upon in other threads, bad mojo calibration on one machine.

When I pick mine up, if it has issues, I will simply drive the 20 minutes to Nikon's service shop and have it calibrated.

That is well covered around the boards.

What was the purpose of this thread?

RM

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

>Gear woes, sometimes occur,...

Yes they do, but this isn't just one isolated incident.

>... bad mojo calibration on one machine.

Do you know that for a fact and do you know if the problem has been corrected yet?

>When I pick mine up, if it has issues, I will simply drive the 20 minutes to Nikon's service shop and have it calibrated.

You are obviously in a better position to have problems handled than the likely majority of owners who would instead have to insure and ship their cameras to have them repaired. Personally, I didn't want my brand new $3,000.00 camera shipped off for repairs before I even had a chance to get to know it well. I read one thread here where the owner insured it and sent it in at least twice and Nikon wasn't able to fix it so they sent him a new one. It's a story with a happy ending but an expensive and frustating beginning and middle.


>What was the purpose of this thread?

That was it. For you there is no purpose since you have planned your every move in the event that disaster strikes. Hopefully, they won't have to keep your new camera for more than a few days if worse comes to worse.

jP


EDIT: And, if you do have to run it over for service right away then let's just hope that it's the calibration issue and not the alignment issue.

I just finished doing the AF Fine Tuning procedure for all of my Nikor lens with my D800. None required a calibration except the 200-400mm f4. I had to make it a -1 instead of zero.

Not bad. Good job Nikon!

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

Just finished AF Fine tuning my lenses too, with same result. No fine tuning needed except 50mm f/1.4 at -5 - But this lens doesn't really shine on this camera anyway, going to have to change it!

Chris

When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence.
- Ansel Adams

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Being an electro-mechanical system, occasionally the electronics and mechanics are going to need alignment. That is the same with any complex system from cars to radar systems. It is a fact of life and physics and once accepted The need becomes less of the personal issue of a company trying to undermine you, personally. The greater the precision the great the expectation of alignment and calibration periodically. My D7000, after 10s of thousands great shots, suddenly the wide angle lenses did not focus well wide open. Brought it to a service center which cleaned it up and calibrated it.....as good or better than new. I did not think it was a defect but a normal maintenance situation. If no tolerance is allowed for complex systems to need attention no one would own cars. The industry average for new delivered defects is 85.
Am I too easily satisfied? No, being an engineer, I am being realistic and not letting minor calibration issues taint my appreciation for a truly ground breaking marvel of technology and art.
I am happy that mines does not need adjustment. But I would also be happy if it did take 30 minutes on the test bed and calibration software.

Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Stan,

I am not disputing the revolutionary features of the D800, nor am I disputing the fact that new and revolutionary products often have flaws. I really liked my D800 and think that it produced some of the best images that I have ever seen. I just didn't want to be stuck with a camera that was literally "defective." I didn't want to keep that camera and have to send it in for repairs since it was brand new. I have other cameras, good ones, so I didn't need that kind of aggravation. The title of my post is "Why on earth would anyone buy a D800?" When we are assured that we won't have to immediately send our mega thousand dollar cameras in for repairs the day after we purchase them, then we can dip our toes into the water. Until that time I think that anyone who buys a potentially defective camera has a few screws loose. But then, what do I know, I'm not an engineer. In fact, I have never even driven a train. I did, however, eat a lot of Good & Plenty as a kid.

jP

I can really understand the frustration of getting a new camera .. an expensive one at that only to find it does not work. Still .. why not just send it back for another unit and move on with life. It's hard to believe they all don't work right ?

Cheers ...

http://salfic.squarespace.com/

It does beg the question of intent. I have had issues with a few cameras over the years. Nikon always did the repair either under warranty or for a reasonable cost. I never had a related issue with any of them.

I kinda think of my Nikons like I do about my wife. Sometimes they just need a little tuning to set them straight. (Glad none you know my wife!)

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

:D

Cheers ...

http://salfic.squarespace.com/

Many of them do work right.

There is a shortage of D800s so it's not a matter of just sending it or taking it back to your seller. They don't have replacements.

Good thought though.

jP

Quote>You are obviously in a better position to have problems
>handled than the likely majority of owners who would instead
>have to insure and ship their cameras to have them repaired.
>jP<Quote<<<

Last time I sent a lens to Nikon, I had it insured.
It needed some internal adjustments but arrived with the front element and filter broken.

USPS refused to pay up, saying it must have already been broken or I would not have sent it in.
Believe me, I do not send anyone broken glass, I would have removed the pieces first.
Anyway, I either ship thru someone else or don't pay for worthless insurance anymore.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

>***USPS*** refused to pay up

And there it is...

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

You need to pack it so it can withstand dropping from a plane. Count on the insurance only to cover if they loose the package altogether.

Tom
Bay Area Nikonian

http://www.tkphoto.me/

Quote>You need to pack it so it can withstand dropping from a plane. <Quote<<<

That reminds me of the first time I went to Hawaii.
We went as a group to spend a week bicycling the Hana Highway.
When we got there I could not find my bike in the luggage turntable.
I looked out the window and my bike was on the runway with the box unwrapped around it.
It looked like it had "dropped from the plane".

I went out and put it together, then took off towards Hana Bay, Maui.
At the top of the first hill, I stopped to catch my breath.
I looked up to see a a ripe fruit hanging from a tree over my head.
I grabbed it, took a bite, then pressed down on the pedal.
The pedal fell off. I thought, must have been the "forbidden fruit".
Lucky for me it threaded back on the crank and held from that day on.

If you get a "bad" Nikon, don't give up. Get it fixed or replaced and keep on peddling photos.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

I feel schizophrenic! I want my D800 ASAP but I'm kinda glad that mine is not here yet. Maybe the kinks will get ironed out before mine is made & delivered!

>I feel schizophrenic! I want my D800 ASAP but I'm kinda glad
>that mine is not here yet. Maybe the kinks will get ironed
>out before mine is made & delivered!

Umm, that's not "schizophrenic", for your own sake.

Sorry being obsessive-compulsive about medical terms, but just so you know. Schizophrenic means you have:

(1) Delusions;
(2) Hallucinations;
(3) Disorganized speech;
(4) Disorganized or catatonic behavior;
(5) "Negative symptoms" -- flat expression, social withdrawal, a "dummy" in short.

What you described fit into the psychological term "Dissociation" which means:

(1) temporary (sometimes dramatic) change in personality to avoid emotional stress, and
(2) extreme forms can result in dissociative identity disorder (more commonly referred to as: multiple personality disorder).



Just to make sure we are indeed in a scientifically correct forum.

superfly

Oh,

If you are curious, feel free to ask me what's the difference between

(1) delusion; and
(2) hallucination

That's a fun one.

Superfly

Schizophenic was used loosely, I'm a family doctor!!!! Obsessive-Compulsive, or Bipolar may have been more appropiate. The real question: Are the recent issues of left sided focal points, metering issues, and lock-up a big problem, a small problem or simply a delusion?

There is so much rubbish on the internet it is hard to decipher fact from fiction. The number of reported focus issues seemed to have plagued the D3/D300, D7000, and now the D800. Yet all said and done most were user error. And Nikon in trying to ensure something similar did not happen released the D800 Technical Guide - of which many grossly lacked comprehension of the material and then stating D800 users would have to use a tripod, always use live view or must use mirror lockup, and that using lenses other than those suggested for enhanced sharpness would not provide a decent image.

The latter told me a lot about the former.

Those that want the cutting edge of technology may occasionally get cut, but can but significantly reduce the odds of being cut if they understand how to harness that technology.

For those not willing to take the risk, I'd suggest staying off the cutting edge! It would seem in the case of the D800 there were tens of thousands of us willing to take the risk.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

May I make a few points, because what I am reading is slightly worrying me. Almost 2 years ago the D7000 was launched and the forums were full of posts about focus problems, including mine. My problems only manifested themselves when using long lenses, for all other applications the camera was fine. I don’t know how many hours I spent during the 2010-11 winter setting up test targets, reporting results back here and getting thoroughly frustrated.

Interestingly, I’d never had any problems I was aware of, before buying the D7000 and joining Nikonians! I certainly had never heard of AF fine tune. In the end I gave up on the posts as everyone was so helpful, but I was getting nowhere. Now, here’s the main point and that is that during the whole torturous period I would suddenly get a sharp in focus shot amongst many slightly out of focus shots. It was at that point that I had a “eureka” moment and I realised the problem was probably me I am not suggesting for a moment that there are not problems with some cameras.

When I had the D80, D300 and with my current D700 I never had any issue, but it was the genre of the photography that changed. I took up wildlife, which means long lenses, high shutter speeds, action and tight crops and that’s where I noticed things were going wrong. All my landscape/portrait images were pin sharp as if taken with a quality compact camera. Any user error with birds and especially birds in flight, feather details etc. is highlighted profoundly.

I find it difficult to think that Nikon production have produced any but the rarest camera with a definite defect and certainly to the point where AF fine tuning is required. I spent 38 years as an instrumentation and control engineering manager and was responsible for the measurement of natural gas using instrumentation to an allowable measure of uncertainty (error) of +- 0.1% and consequences of error were sleepless nights due to punishing penalties imposed for wrong billing. In all my time I had one failure of the delicate electro mechanical devices (bit like a camera).

What I’m trying to say is that could it not be in a few cases with the D800 that this may be about a steep learning curve, and acceptance that there may be times where human error creeps in and leads the user to think it’s the camera.

I repeat I am not suggesting for one minute that the reports of problems are other than the camera, however it could just be that some may be looking too closely. I am beginning to wonder also if the ability of a user to access the AF fine tune facility is only worthwhile when stringent rules of setup and capture are applied. Or, is it a facility which can confuse and blur the true problem. It did with me.

Finally, I really hope the majority of problems are human rather than the camera, otherwise there will be amongst the delighted D800 owners some very disappointed recipients.

Richard

Visit my Nikonians gallery

Richard, you are a thoughtful and gracious guy.

I also spent many years in high tech industries working in nuclear power design and construction as well as the largest computer company in the world. I did see some failures, but the failures were far outnumbered by amazing technical successes.

In both of those industries, I saw people (users) cause major technical problems by not using gear as it was designed to be used. Gear designers do an incredible job of designing these gadgets for us, but they cannot cover every single type of user error and produce a device that can be built and that you could afford to buy. There are things the designers must leave out.

When I see someone complain about the D800 and after using it for three weeks, I can only shake my head. I knew the specs for the camera before I bought it, but I am still amazed by what it can do.

Frankly, I am really happy Nikon did leave a few things out so they could sell the camera for $3K. I hate to consider what the price tag would be if it covered every user contingency.

I also look at these complaints as opportunities for you and I to really explore the plusses of the camera. If we only heard the good things, we would probably stop and wonder if Nikon employees were writing these entries.

There is another aspect to consider also. There are no qualifications required to be a Nikonians member just as there are no qualifications required for you to write a product review on Amazon. Some folks who have no technical qualifications will write bad reviews here just to see people respond. Those people could also be die hard Canon owners. I am not saying that being a Canon owner is a bad thing. I am also not saying that comments here were made by Canon owners. I am just saying that it could happen.

By the way, I have two Canon cameras...but they may never leave the bag again now that I have this D800.

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

You make many valid points. There are "bad" cameras out there and I am sure of that. However, it's certainly not in Nikon's interest to take short cuts in production and QA. I just feel that there is a balance between user learning and camera malfunction. My guess would rate that at 90 to 10% respectively. I can say this because although my first copy of my Nikon D7000 was admitted by the dealer to be faulty and replaced, my lack of understanding gave way to a requirement to learn how to use it and caused me no end of grief.

Richard

Visit my Nikonians gallery

>When I see someone complain about the D800 and after using it for three weeks, I can only shake my head.

Actually, since you are probably talking about me, I had only owned my D800 for two weeks, not three weeks. It didn't take me that long to discover the problems. Most of us have been able to diagnose the problem within a day or two, at most. I also found that it underexposed by a stop with the viewfinder but was perfect in live-view.

>Some folks who have no technical qualifications will write bad reviews here just to see people respond. Those people could also be die hard Canon owners.

Paranoia sets in with some people. I cross my heart and hope to die, I have never, ever, owned or ever touched a Canon SLR or DSLR, but admit to owning various Canon point and shoots, including a G11.

>By the way, I have two Canon cameras.

I think that you have sunk to a new low on this issue no matter how fast you can shake your head at me. Why don't you just read the posts and suggest ways that those who have these problems can obtain relief instead of blasting me for a post that is very accurate and appropriate. I know that there are many us, including me, who can afford a three thousand dollar camera that may not work correctly. But, there a lot of folks here who are buying these cameras and hoping that they will be perfect because it is the camera of their dreams and that they can't afford to make a huge mistake. I am sternly suggesting that they wait until things are fixed. But, you and a few others are suggesting that they buy a mistake because Nikon will eventually make it good, and I do not doubt that they will, eventually.


jP


EDIT: BTW, has anyone with a new D800 tested to see if their meter reading through the viewfinder was the same when using live view? With my D3s it's the same, but with the D800 and a contrasty subject it's off by one stop. With a gray card it's only off by 1/3 of a stop.

Sorry you are offended JP.

I read lots of Nikonians posts. I also suggest ways to improve the use of the D800.

If you got your money back for the returned camera, I am not sure why you have an issue in view of all the positive things said about the D800 here in these forums.

Some pioneers in the old west got arrows in their backs. Others survived despite the ills. All of us who have purchased the first run of D800 cameras are pioneers. Some of us will survive...and thrive...and reap the benefits.

I am currently reaping the benefits.

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

Yes, I got my money back because I got a piece of junk, and yes I have other good cameras.

Why are you telling young persons with little money to spend that they take a chance with a camera that is questionable. Why don't you do what I am doing and warn them against spending their hard earned money on a camera that is questionable. Tell them to wait until the problems are resolved instead of making a "merry fest' out of my warnings. Or, as you have have suggested, do you think that they should be pioneers in the old west and get arrows in their backs.

Yours is probably the most stupid post that I have ever read.

Cordially,

jP


Edit: Larry, I apologize. You are a well meaning and respected member here. Just read the posts that keep coming in about the problems with the D800.

>Yes, I got my money back because I got a piece of junk, and
>yes I have other good cameras.
>
>Why are you telling young persons with little money to spend
>that they take a chance with a camera that is questionable.
>Why don't you do what I am doing and warn them against
>spending their hard earned money on a camera that is
>questionable. Tell them to wait until the problems are
>resolved instead of making a "merry fest' out of my
>warnings. Or, as you have have suggested, do you think that
>they should be pioneers in the old west and get arrows in
>their backs.
>
>Yours is probably the most stupid post that I have ever read.
>
>Cordially,
>
>jP
>

It's time to stop, please.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

Download from our library of Image Doctor podcasts here

Agreed.

Done.

>Yes, I got my money back because I got a piece of junk, and
>yes I have other good cameras.
>
>Why are you telling young persons with little money to spend
>that they take a chance with a camera that is questionable.
>Why don't you do what I am doing and warn them against
>spending their hard earned money on a camera that is
>questionable. Tell them to wait until the problems are
>resolved instead of making a "merry fest' out of my
>warnings. Or, as you have have suggested, do you think that
>they should be pioneers in the old west and get arrows in
>their backs.
>
>Yours is probably the most stupid post that I have ever read.
>
>Cordially,
>
>jP
>
>
>Edit: Larry, I apologize. You are a well meaning and
>respected member here. Just read the posts that keep coming
>in about the problems with the D800.
>
>
>
Look thats what these forums are for..to share experiences. I have the D800
and have no issues. People with good findings should share an recommend
their opinions and results just as those who have had negative experiences.
This camera is a game changer for most...just read the reviews.
Sorry you had a bad one or it didn't work for you....Dont sour this forum with animosity
and anger....opinions and as$%^oles...we all got em bro. Be constructive...

.

"Technical aspects MUST be innate"



Visit my website: phxsports.net

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Regarding your comment about the meter reading through the viewfinder being different than that displayed in LV, I noticed that too. Nikon addresses that on pg 55 of the manual:
"Depending on the scene, exposure may differ from that which would be
obtained when live view is not used. Metering in live view is adjusted to suit the live view display, producing photographs with exposure close to what is seen in the monitor."
Dave Jolley

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

And the manual continues on page 56 -
Shooting in Live View Mode
To prevent light entering via the viewfinder from interfering with
exposure, close the viewfinder eyepiece shutter (0106).

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

The viewfinder eyepiece has been closed when I noticed these differences. It happens frequently enough that I don't rely on the live view meter reading as a result. I use the top LCD meter readout and have turned off the LV meter; less clutter anyway.
I haven't checked to see if the LV histogram is correct, just the analog meter.
Dave Jolley

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Dave

I did a number of tests, and with the D3s live view and the view finder were always the same. With the D800, the viewfinder was one stop less than live view with a contrasty subject, but only about 1/3 of a stop less with a gray card.

jP

Richard, During my 26 years in the Air Force we had a saying that always applied when you encountered something new: "RTFI" (Read the instructions.) From what I see on this and other equipment fora, nowadays everybody expects a camera to be point-and-shoot, even if it costs three grand or more. A couple hours with the manual always is in order.

Russ Lewis
www.FineArtSnaps.com

Redo the thread title to say
'8 reasons not to buy the D800 right now'
and 100's of us would have jumped in here to say we like the D800 and here are 63 more reasons why you should buy it now.

I brought mine a new pillow so it can sleep next to me and the wife gets the spare room. j/k I am single but I did get it a new camera bag. Anyways, you get the drift, we are saying we like the D800 and we are sorry you got a bad copy.

Colin

"We don’t see things as they are, we see things as we are" - Anaïs Nin

Please visit My Nikonians gallery

I understand why those who got a "bad" D800 are so vehement.
5 years ago when my D300 came it had so many defects that I would not trust one today.
Must be a natural reaction, because I could not seem to help myself from rebutting all those happy users that were fooling themselves.
Two weeks later my D3 arrived. It exceeded all my expectations.
I returned the D300 and got a second D3.
Now I have a "near perfect" D800 which has also exceeded my expectations.

Since 1999, one bad camera out of a dozen or more first run bodies is not bad, especially when I can return them for full refund.
So, get over it and move on.....

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Same here, my first D7000 was a let down and due to its inability to focus properly was replaced without argument. However, I've never got on with the camera after that and to me it never quite performed as well as others tell it does on here. It's an "adequate" camera in my view, ergonomically poor and lacks many pro spec features such as those found on the D300s(apart from U1/2 settings which are great).

I've thought about a D800 replacing my D700, but I can't see really what the D800 would give if I judge its gains against the loss of my D700. I really want a DX replacement for my D7000, an upgraded D300s. I like having two cameras FX for landscape, DX for wildlife.

All that said, this forum is fantastic for helping me decide. As with the D800 any possible candidates that arrive I shall look, discuss, wait, discuss some more and read all the posts. Then about 6 months after all the talk is over, maybe buy

Richard

Visit my Nikonians gallery

Richard,

>I like having two cameras FX for landscape, DX for wildlife.<

Why do you want more than one (FX) camera for landscape?

Rob
www.robbuckle.co.uk

<<Why do you want more than one (FX) camera for landscape?>>

No Rob I don't, 2 cameras a D700 and one other which is to be DX.

Richard

Visit my Nikonians gallery

Why not just use a 1.4X teleconverter on the D700 or D800 in lieu of a DX body? Or is it a FPS issue?

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

Because that would only give me less than the x1.5 of a DX camera and I then use my x1.4 TC on DX anyway to give me yet more reach. That's what most wildlife DX shooters do mostly.

Richard

Visit my Nikonians gallery

Richard,

Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part.

Rob
www.robbuckle.co.uk

I live into a future I create for myself.

Sounds like you talked yourself into the D7000 being less good. And then continued to listen to that little voice in your head drone on and on and on how bad your D7000 was. And kept finding evidence to support your point of view.

Stuff happens. Its how we deal with it that makes us happy (or sad).

Colin

"We don’t see things as they are, we see things as we are" - Anaïs Nin

Please visit My Nikonians gallery

No, it's not really that simple. I have had some excellent results, really top drawer according to some on here. Have a look at the Red Kites on my web site www.pixels4u.co.uk. As I've said before it's not a pro body although not far off, lacks many pro attributes like total weather sealing, 51 focus points and the body feels small and less ergonomic than either the D300/s and D700 which just feel so right on a long days wildlife shoot. In fact for me the more sturdy and the more solidly built the better, even if that means heavier.

Richard

Visit my Nikonians gallery

I am actually waiting until it stays in stock for a while. That will probably be the end of the year or early 2013. I believe any bugs will be fixed by then. I also will get more use out of my D200 meaning the bang for the buck will get even better.

Shoot nature with respect and don't trample it or startle its inhabitants.

I ordered one this week and can't wait. If I am one of the unlucky ones with the left-side-focus defect, I'll deal with it. Most other issues, as with previous bodies, can be dealt with by firmware updates.

Jon Kandel
A New York City Nikonian and Team Member
Please visit my website and critique the images!

I sincerely apologize for anything that I have said in this thread that has insulted anyone. It was not my intention to insult or criticize anyone. I was hoping to be of help, but obviously that was not the result.

jP

The direction of the thread started in a defensive path because the original premise was that the camera had design flaws which was not the case in the vast majority of user's minds. I am sure there is some defect in design that 60,000 current users have not found but it would be safe to say that it would be a flaw of little or no consequence if only discovered now. The camera had been in the hands of 25,000 people before one shooter in Asia found a particular combination of rare settings found a difference in AF. The first people to look for it after it was described in detail how to reproduce it had problems finding it. In fact few people even had the lenses it occurred with, 24 1.4 shot wide open. A 24 at 2.8 could not see it. Also a few people discovered that the far left focal point could be less sharply focused on a 14-24 at 2.8 when using 14mm. That is the origin of the "defect". If Ming had not discovered it with studio testing, and never mentioned it, quite likely it would still be undiscovered since it is a rare set if settings and lenses that revealed it.
But after some delay of a few weeks, Nikon came up with a revised calibration procedure that took care of it. It is not nor has it ever been a defeat in the design of the camera. A calibration change for the impacted cameras, most likely based on one of the several final calibration points in the final assembly since the majority of cameras do not have this variability which is why so many of us were firmly convinced that the flaw was not a intrinsic defect but a variation in setup. I for one, never would have found it myself, I shoot my 24 wide open a lot but on wide angle I doubt I ever would use the far left focal point.
I would not support the common suggestion to replace a camera that is otherwise fine with a complete unknown camera. Having a "great" camera sent in for calibration to make it a known "perfect" camera would be a better route. Almost any camera will perform better after individual calibration periodically. That is not a defect but the nature of precision equipment. There is a range of tolerance that is acceptable in production gear that can often be exceeded by careful recalibration as was found out by many who sent in their D7000's for repairs of some sort and found their camera worked better than expected after it was re-calibrated when reassembled. I have a part time repair shop in my home, mostly for hobby and to keep my diagnostic chops finely tuned.. It is for pro audio but the principles of diagnostics are the same in all fields. There is no factory fresh unit that crosses my lab bench that by careful adjustment, does not work a bit better than factory spec or tolerance. For one, diagnostic test instruments used by an experienced tech or engineer are better than assembly line workers who are needing only to fit the results in a band of tolerances. No assembly line would have the precision test instruments I have, it is not needed for published specs. So I have no problem with suggesting that sending a camera back for calibration if there is a specific repeatable error, will result in better than new results.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

I was finally able to purchase a D-800 and received it last weekend.

After fully charging the battery, I figured I could take photos without reading the manual that came with the camera. After taking photos of anything around me, you know, like the couch, the dog, a lamp, the stereo, my friend's face, I found my photos sucked! I went to bed thinking I had made a major mistake, and was kicking myself for selling my D-300.

Well, the next morning after some caffeine, I decided to read the manual. Things began to improve. I found it was operator error and not any flaws in the camera that were causing terrible photos. By the end of the weekend, my photos were just awesome, at least in my "eyes".

For me, there is going to be a huge learning curve on how to use this camera. This is by far, the best camera I have ever owned. I cannot wait to take the next photo.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Stan, nails it yet again.

I shot some CD cover stills with the focus point cranked left, because this was the best framing for the two subjects at their collaborative effort.

Things seem smooth enough, given I used a high ISO setting, then went back to the D3S for the rest of the takes. The set from the D800, are remarkably clear even so.

On Sunday, just video of a high school jazz ensemble and smaller combo, harsh sidelight, but the video controls are all live with the exception of switching from FX to DX and remarkably, the overblown highlights usual to the D7K, did not factor into the D800 footage.

So far, the machine does not seem to have any of the conditional issues which led this thread from the OP.

Given your engineering background edification, it's a good bet I'll drag it down to El Segundo anyway in a week or so, because why not?

Thanks Stan!

Rob

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

>Stan, nails it yet again.

>I'll drag it down to El Segundo anyway in a week or so,
>because why not?

>Rob
>Quote<<<<

Have you ever heard the "If it ain't broke don't fix it"?

Hopefully El Segundo service has improved from years ago.
I had a D1 with many shots and a stubborn dust bunny on the Sensor.
It was almost one year old and the "free" cleaning was about to expire.
I told my self "why not" and sent it in.

Even though it worked perfect and the dust was in the very corner,
they told me it had "impact damage" and charged me $800 to clean it.
It came back with twice as much dirt spots and no longer even worked.
I sent it to Melville where they replaced the shutter and some other parts for free.
It was returned better than new but I was out several month of use and $800.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.