I've had my D800 for a number of months now, shooting mainly on tripod using live view. Early on, I did some testing and found that I had the left focus issue. I sent it off to Melville, it came back a little better but not fixed.

I decided to continue to shoot on tripod using live view.

I have been keeping a close eye on this forum to see how others have dealt with the problem. With the new fix identified overseas, has anyone had a successful repair out of Melville, or should I continue to wait?


Paul

"life is a lesson, you learn it when you're through" f. durst

That news is disappointing to me.
I thought Melville was supposed to have been the first to get it right.
I have had nothing but good repairs from them.
Only issue was a back ordered part.
Sure glad my D800 has no issues.

What was your turn around time?

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

I am curious about this myself. I have been holding off sending mine in since May. I was planning to send it in next month, but not until I hear some positive reports. I'd also like to know if they are requiring test photos and pre-approval before sending it in. The last reports I heard a few weeks ago, they were telling people to hold off sending them in for the left AF issue pending guidance from Japan.
Dave Jolley

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

I sent mine in back in July. It came back and wasn't totally fixed. I contacted Nikon again after I did enough testing to completely document the problem. They asked me to provide sample photos which I did. Then the info was sent to Japan and several weeks later they asked me to return the camera. I was out of town at that point, so I finally sent it in last Wednesday.

My status is B2 (major parts) and it says "In shop" right now. I'll probably have it back in a few days and I'll let you know what the verdict is.

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

Thanks, please keep us all posted


Paul

"life is a lesson, you learn it when you're through" f. durst

Thom indicated new calibrated bodies went out to Nikon repair shops for use in the "fix". They use the calibrated bodies to calibrate the ones that come in for repairs. A lot of the earlier repairs came back global +10 (or some such figure) because the
calibrated bodies they were initially using were off. Supposedly this is fixed now.

Very interested to hear your report.


Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
My Nikonians gallery
My Nikonians Blog

I can't know for certain, but I think it was not *just* the fact that previous calibrated bodies were +10.

The reason I say this is that the first repair attempt shifted the whole thing +15 to +20 (on center points) which made the previously unreliable left hand sensors OK, but threw the previously reliable center points way off.

More succinctly, the first attempt to fix did not address the focus differences across the frame (for me). IMO it did prove that the outer AF sensors are indeed capable of rock solid focus (which, really we already knew because the right hand sensors worked pretty well to begin with).

The first attempt did slightly improve the difference in reliability between the left and center sensors. However, it did not totally solve it, and in some ways made it worse because 4 out of the 5 lenses I owned now required AF fine tune values of +10 or greater (2 of which were +20) for the center sensor. The only lens that didn't need it was my copy of the AF-S 70-300 VR f/4.5-5.6 which probably masks the issue due to it's increased DoF.

The jury is still out on the second attempt as I haven't received mine back from service yet.

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

RL,

Have you received your D800 back from Melville yet? Just checking in to see if they are capable...

If you haven't seen this article yet, Thom Hogan writes (www.bythom.com):
--------------------------
Focus on Focus
Oct 22, 2012 (news and commentary)--First things first. Potential D800 folk want to know what the status of that camera is. At this point I'm 100% certain that NikonUSA knows how to get a body to where it should be if it does have misaligned AF sensor information. The second procedure deployment seems to have corrected the problem I saw with the first (all bodies were coming out with what was effectively a center of +10 AF Fine Tune).
---------------------------
Paul

"life is a lesson, you learn it when you're through" f. durst

I got a delivery notification from UPS last night. It should be arriving today. Once I receive it and check it out, I'll report back ASAP.

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

I'm one of those people who has been lurking on Nikonians for about 5 years without posting a thing. First off, I'd like to thank everyone for tremendous amount of useful info I've picked up here.

I'm posting now to add another datapoint to the D800 AF thread. I received my D800 in late June, hoping that the left AF issues were over. No such luck. I was pretty quickly able to confirm my body had the problem. I sent it in to Melville in mid July and received it back 5 weeks later. I paid for the shipping to Melville.

My 'fix' came back exactly as described in other posts. The left focus point was pretty good. But now the center focus required between +15 and +20 AF Fine tune with all of my lenses (about 6 I tried). And once I dialed that in, the left was out. I picked up a copy of Reikan FoCAL and after that gave very consistent results, confirming what I'd seen on my own. FoCAL is recommending values of +18, typically.

I called up Nikon service on Sunday. The woman on the phone looked up my previous service, and with no argument whatsoever said they would take it in for service again. I didn't need to submit any test images. This time they sent the prepaid mailer label. I dropped the body off at UPS this morning. I will post the results of the second attempt when I get it back.

-Neil

Neil,

Thanks for the information... Great first post

I, like you, waited, bought, and realized I had the issue. Sent (ok, I drove it over to Melville) it in for repair. Most of my lenses are dialed in at around +20, with the left side still soft. I have been waiting to hear if anyone else has had good service and a place where it would be repaired, reliably! Now I find from you, all I have to do is call up and get a mailing label...


Thank you!


Paul

"life is a lesson, you learn it when you're through" f. durst

Neil,

Has your camera come back from Melville yet? Any status at this point?


Paul

"life is a lesson, you learn it when you're through" f. durst

It is not fixed.

Evidence to follow...

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

Here are the results I got as returned to me.

No fine tune applied. (Though FoCal still suggests +15 for my 50mm f/1.8)

Note: the photos are arranged left-most, center, right-most (from left to right) and then three trials of PDAF and one trial of LVAF (from top to bottom).

Full size 100%, click here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanlantzy/8120868225/sizes/o/in/photostream/

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

And here it is with the +15 applied...

Note: the photos are arranged left-most, center, right-most (from left to right) and then three trials of PDAF and one trial of LVAF (from top to bottom).

Full size 100%, click here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanlantzy/8120868317/sizes/o/in/photostream/

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

Some commentary...

Note: the photos are arranged left-most, center, right-most (from left to right) and then three trials of PDAF and one trial of LVAF (from top to bottom).

With no fine tune applied, everything looks about equal across the frame compared to one another. Sometimes it even nails it (maybe 1 out of 5 tries).

With +15 fine tune applied, the center becomes RAZOR, and I mean razor sharp. It nails focus 99 out of 100 times it seems to me and you could cut steel with the photos you take. However the left becomes very soft.

With a setting of +5 to +10 the center sharpens up from where it was at zero, and the left doesn't get too much worse - but the center is not as good as it is at +15.

So far I've only tested with the AF 50mm f/1.8 D. Taking all these shots and making sure one doesn't miss a frame or bump anything is tedious, and frankly I loathe it at this point. I will try to test with my 20mm f/2.8 and 85mm f/1.8 this weekend. That said, I'm not doubting my plastic fantastic. I stuck it on my D300 and repeated the tests and to my eye, it nails focus every time with no fine tune applied - matching the live view results. As I've said before, the D300 is really the only proper comparison because it has the same number of AF points, shares nearly the exact same AF frame coverage as the D800, and has about 85% of the vertical resolution of the D800 over the same physical area.

The D800 does still produce some of the most amazing shots I've ever seen. The dynamic range is nothing short of amazing. Maybe I'm just asking too much of this camera. But for $3000, I think it should be able to match or better my D300.

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

Just a question, is your 85 a non-D lens? Can you try an AF-S lens?

I am not sure why D vs. G would make a difference, just thinking out loud.

I am very disappointed for you... it might need to go back again.

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
My Nikonians gallery
My Nikonians Blog

>Just a question, is your 85 a non-D lens? Can you try an
>AF-S lens?

My 85mm is actually borrowed - but it is a D lens. The only AF-S lens I own is a 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR. It never exhibits the problem due to the increased depth of field.

I also own a Tokina 28-70mm f/2.8 (which is a non-D, non-AF-S lens) that works quite well, i.e. no need to fine tune and no left side softness (or at least very very little. However, wide open that lens is soft all over so...

>
>I am not sure why D vs. G would make a difference, just
>thinking out loud.
>
>I am very disappointed for you... it might need to go back
>again.

Bah... very frustrating. I'm beginning to think they didn't even adjust anything because the results are nearly exactly the same.

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

Very disappointing... For all of us.

Sorry


Paul

"life is a lesson, you learn it when you're through" f. durst

Thom Hogan yesterday reported that finally, all Nikon repair centers know how to properly fix the D800/800E out-of-focus problem. He suggested that folks who previously got a make-do repair should now send their cameras back for a proper repair.

Gator Bob Santa Fe New Mexico
*D800E *D700 *SB800 *RRS TVC-24L
Nikkors: *14-24 *70-200 VRII *T-20E III *50 f/1.8 *PC-E 85 *28-300
Tamron: * 90mm Macro *

Seeing as mine was returned on the 23rd, I don't think that is the case, at least for Melville.

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

How awful! I just sent this thread to Thom Hogan.

Gator Bob Santa Fe New Mexico
*D800E *D700 *SB800 *RRS TVC-24L
Nikkors: *14-24 *70-200 VRII *T-20E III *50 f/1.8 *PC-E 85 *28-300
Tamron: * 90mm Macro *

I have a theory as to why they can't fix it with simple adjustments and calibration. See the following image.



Supposedly there is some internal calibration of all of the individual AF points. If the warping of the AF module is too extreme such that it can not be adjusted electronically, then replacement might be the only option.

Or it could be very difficult/costly to reprogram the module's calibration table. The table may be stored inside the AF module itself and hard to get at without complete dis-assembly of the camera, or burned into some kind of ROM at the factory. It could be that the AF module is calibrated to itself outside of the camera before it's installed in the camera. I don't have sufficient knowledge of the camera's internal parts to know one way or the other.

These are suppositions on my part, but since Nikon won't comment and I haven't personally seen a resolution to the issue, what else can I do?

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

:-(






Art is the only way to run away without leaving home.



www.TinkersRealm.com

Re-reading your diagram, and I am not an expert on the issue, but my understanding of Thom's and others writing on this matter is that the fix corrects the problem shown on your "Bent/Warped AF sensor" line.

I am not sure what causes your camera's specific issues started with and why the fix did not take for your unit, in which case perhaps back again for repair or this time around replacement? In the fullness of all avenues approach, it would be ideal to try it with a friends AF-S lens (as opposed to your D lenses), but that may be a futile effort, very hard to say without taking the time to do it. I don't believe I've read any comment on D lenses this entire time, it's just a pattern I noticed in your specific situation. Please keep us posted.

Would still like to hear the other gentleman's (in this thread) experience when he gets his back.

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
My Nikonians gallery
My Nikonians Blog

No one knows for certain what Nikon does during the repair - or if they always do it. They may analyze the fault first and then the technician decides a course of action. If the technician decides to simply move the mirror or AF module forward or backward, and NOT re-calibrate the individual points then problems may persist.

Additionally, there is no first hand proof that they even have the ability to do this. Sure, we have several bloggers repeating what Nikon representatives have told them in private, but no official statement from the company.

The other possibility is that the AF module, mirrors, or assemblies are bent to an extreme that they simply cannot be adjusted for in any calibration, i.e. the calibration values are maxed out.

Let's say for the sake of argument that each focus point has an internal adjustment of +/- 10 and each step is a 1 thousandth of an inch. Now, lets say that all values are typically at or near 0. Maybe the AF modules are deflect by 0.015 of an inch, so all of the internal focus points on the left side have been maxed out at +10. This would be insufficient to correct it. However, if the technician were adept enough to set all of the other points to -5, and then offset the mirror mechanically by +5, this would yield a better result over all.

This is all speculation, it's just a theory of mine.

As for the use of AF-S lenses... You may be right, maybe an AF-S lens would work. I think you are implying that AF-S lenses are more accurate than screw-type focus lenses. I think this is completely bunk, and the reason is, the focus drive mechanism is just the output of the AF system and the CDAF (live view) system is fully capable of controlling screw-type focus lenses into perfect focus every time. It also doesn't help that my D300 can focus this lens using the PDAF system with no trouble at all.

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

From time to time, there has been talk, about what the proprietary PDAF functioning actually does. Does it hammer home to "close" and then perform a corrective fine adjustment? I don't know, but if so could AF-S lenses have an ability for the corrective cycle that screwdriver do not? Anyhow, I'm not asking for a serious answer, just thinking out loud about changing one variable (screwdriver for AF-S) to see if a difference could be measured in your unit.

Another stupid question on my part but what if you try AF-C - does it make any difference? I am biased enough that I do all my photography with AF-C not AF-single (but that is not a majority view as I believe all advice is tune while using AF-single).

Regardless your sad saga here may be approaching the "argue with them to get a replacement" stage as you've been through enough perhaps.

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
My Nikonians gallery
My Nikonians Blog

Ryan - I was speaking to Nikon Service on Saturday and this is what I was told:

She categorically repeated several times:-

"Our technicians in Japan are still working on a fix for the D800 focus problem, but they haven't resolved it yet - some people have sent in their cameras for recalibration and some people have reported that it has worked for them, but some also said that recalibration has not fixed the problem" !

That's a pretty definitive statement and doesn't much sound like the "official" Nikon party line.

She then asked me to send in images etc (as usual) so that "...our technicians in Japan can see what's going on and try to come up with a fix".

That's a bit worrying!

Chris

When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence.
- Ansel Adams

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Ming Thein in his latest blog said he continues to intermittently experience unpredictable auto focus problems with his D800E but it remains his camera of choice for the most demanding professsional assignments. He recommends using the 800E on a tripod. He says even his experienced pro handholding technique frequently fails to produce sharp images.

Gator Bob Santa Fe New Mexico
*D800E *D700 *SB800 *RRS TVC-24L
Nikkors: *14-24 *70-200 VRII *T-20E III *50 f/1.8 *PC-E 85 *28-300
Tamron: * 90mm Macro *

Yes - probably more a comment on the reliability or consistency/repeatability of the AF System rather than on its correct calibration or alignment. Under those circumstances the (left hand) focus points will always be off.

Chris

When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence.
- Ansel Adams

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Very disappointing to hear, I've been waiting 6 months now for a repair.
I guess if they stall long enough some us may be out of the warranty period.
Dave Jolley

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

I would like to perform your exact same test with a D800 that appears to be perfect like mine.
Unfortunately you live no where near me.
Is it possible that you can get a hold on such a camera to compare?

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Well, mine is going back again.

Nikon contacted me yesterday, after about a week of waiting for them to respond to my request. I'm not upset about that at all, I knew with the hurricane it would be hectic up there for awhile, but I'm just mentioning it. The Melville facility was off-line for about a week due to the hurricane - Thom H. reported on this today on his blog.

Anyway, they want me to send it back along with my 50mm lens that I tested with. They've provided a shipping label again, as they did for the 2nd repair attempt (this is my 3rd return for those who haven't been following along).

Wish me luck.

I did nab these shots with the D800 while in DC over the weekend.

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

You got those great eight-pointed stars on the lights.

What lens did you use? What aperture?

Or was that done in post?

AviSys

>You got those great eight-pointed stars on the lights.
>
>What lens did you use? What aperture?
>
>Or was that done in post?

They were taken with a Tokina AT-X 270AF 28-70mm f/2.8, pictured below. The photo was shot at f/8 or f/11 I can't remember. The lens is probably 20 years old or so, and I picked it up for $90 used on Craigslist.

I did do a little work in post to adjust color/contrast/saturation and cropped them of course. However, the stars are all natural.

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

Good luck with your 3rd attempt. I just sent mine in for a second round, but I'm not holding my breath. Actually focusing got worse after the first round of adjustments. I am really interested in how your story develops.

Alex
http://www.yermakov.net

I received my D800 body back last week from repair attempt #2. Melville turned it around very quickly, during Sandy no less, but...

Executive summary: Still not fixed.

I tested my 24-70 mm F/2.8 and 50 mm F/1.4. They both exhibit the problem still. I used FoCAL to look at the AF fine-tune. There's been some change to the center focus values. Now FoCAL is recommending values around +10, whereas before it recommended around +18 or so. So they did something.

However when I compared the left and right focus points, they aren't consistent with the center. The left focus point is very close to AF value of 0. So it really looks like they just set it up so that would work.

I'll spend more time testing more lenses, but it seems clear to me that Nikon hasn't figured out how to fix this problem for some of our D800 bodies. At this point, I plan to use it with the center focus point for the next couple of months and see if they've gotten their act together.

-Neil

Disappointing to say the least. Is it possible to petition Nikon to send you a new camera or a refund in light of the fact that it should be under warranty and you have given them more than enough time & opportunity to correct this issue?




Art is the only way to run away without leaving home.



www.TinkersRealm.com

Neil

What did you tell them was wrong when you sent it in? Did you tell them "left focus issue"? or did you communicate that the focus was inconsistent across the spectrum of the focus points?


Paul

"life is a lesson, you learn it when you're through" f. durst

I told them that after repair #1, the left focus point was accurate, but that the center focus point was now out. I think the title of my ticket was something like "center focus inaccurate" or something like that. I went on a bit in the description to make it clear that the inconsistency between the focus points was my complaint.

BTW - I'm not in the camp of wanting to ditch my D800. I mainly shoot handheld, and the shots I took ever after repair attempt #1, with very high AF values dialed in, were quite nice. The resolution and dynamic range of the camera is incredible. I'm annoyed about the asymmetrical focus thing and still hope to get it fixed, but it's still a very usable camera.

-Neil

An update.

My camera arrived at Nikon's facility in Melville on Friday (the 9th) for the 3rd time. Shortly after lunch I got a voice mail (and email) from a Nikon customer service manager (CSM). Someone seemingly pretty high up based on their title, but I'm not naming names.

The voice mail said basically that during a quick test (similar to mine) he could not reproduce the problem. He submitted some sample shots and I quickly examined them in ViewNX 2. I called him back and conceded that his examples were better than my testing, and we talked briefly about the situation. We noted that the only real difference in our tests was that I was under tungsten lights and he was under fluorescent lights. I also noted that the images were taken at 1/80 while mine were taken at 1/1600 or so, guaranteeing that any vibration wouldn't likely affect my images. The CSM said he would ship my camera back promptly and that was it. There was not much to say really, and at this point I sort of felt like an idiot.

During the weekend, I took a closer look at the images he shared and I noted a few discrepancies. First, at no time was the AF fine tune used (as was used in my samples). Second, some samples were of a test chart (much like mine) taped on an office whiteboard. In the sample for the center focus point, I noticed some red/purple CA on the blackest parts of the test chart (indicating less than perfect focus). Third, at no point was the actual center focus point used. In one set of images, a lens align tool was used. The leftmost and rightmost focus points were used, but one just to the left of center was used for the "center focus point" example. In another set of images, the row of focus points above the middle row was used (so, leftmost, center, and rightmost on the row just above the middle row).

After gathering this information, I replied to the email (through the MyNikon service portal). I received no reply yesterday, but my camera and lens were checked into Nikon service and I got an email stating that fact. Today, I got a another reply through MyNikon from the CSM stating that while he did use a different sent of focus points, he did so because there was no acceptable detail to focus on when he set up the test under the focus points I used. So rather than raising or lowering the camera (or moving targets) he just used other focus points. He stated that there would be no difference in the performance of the auto focus system due to this.

In my previous reply I also noted the difference in the type of lighting used and I wondered if that might factor in. The response to that was basically that while different color light has different characteristics, Nikon does not publish any specifications for their auto focus systems related to this fact.

If you are interested, here are the sample shots supplied by Nikon:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/orik0t7bdi1quhn/bucavFzsna/From%20Nikon

Here are the sample shots I suppled to Nikon:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/orik0t7bdi1quhn/gLRvmLNgWl/For%20Nikon

P.S. I got an email saying my camera is going to be delivered tomorrow by UPS. So I guess it's on it's way back already.

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

Ryan - interesting, however one of the things I note from the Nikon samples is that he hasn't aligned the LensAlign target correctly!

Chris

When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence.
- Ansel Adams

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Ryan,

Sorry to hear about your experience. I'm in a same sort of boat with my camera - I've sent it in for the second time, provided them with sample images and they replied to me that "it's within Nikon standards".

I think I will explore every way I can find and complain to every Nikon office I can reach as well as post as much details on this everywhere I can.

I believe that Nikon proves itself as a horrible customer service company and that they should suffer the consequences. This is not acceptable for a $3000 unit which does not operate properly.

I will follow your story as I would really want to see how it's taken care of in the US. I live in Canada.

Good luck to you.

Alex
http://www.yermakov.net

>I think I will explore every way I can find and complain to
>every Nikon office I can reach as well as post as much details
>on this everywhere I can.

Your frustration is understandable, but before you post your criticisms in any more threads here, may I just remind you about section 6.3(i) of our Terms of Use, where you agreed to make any negative comments about a company just once.

Many thanks!

Brian
Welsh Nikonian
Check out the Nikonians Team pages

Just thought I'd add myself to the list of those with the D800/D800E left-side autofocus problem. I've been posting my own saga on my blog, here and here. And today I've just posted a review of Focus Tune.

My D800E is now back from Nikon for the second time and still unchanged. (Once to El Segundo and once to Melville.) Not sure what I'm going to do yet. As for some others, I tend to use mine on a tripod with manual/LiveView focus, so the a/f problem doesn't affect me all that much. For handheld work I'm more likely using my D3s or now a D600.

Me: portfolio, blog

Love your photographs. Amazing.

I'll make sure to follow the progress of your camera work on your blog. Good luck with it!

Alex
http://www.yermakov.net

I am hopeful that if enough people request replacements w/Nikon Directly-they will honor the request-ITA that this is beyond what is to be expected from a Reputable company or from a legimate buyer w/a Valid Complaint!!!


Art is the only way to run away without leaving home.



www.TinkersRealm.com

Thank God I don't have this problem.

But for those that do, I wonder if the "lemon law" would apply.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

I'm wondering if it might pay for some of you to band together and go through all the D800 posts and collect the names/emails of those who have unresolved focus issue problems after faulty repair(s). I suspect the number could be meaningful. Then decide if all of you want to hire the same lawyer on a contingency basis or possibly as part of a class action suit.

If you want help collecting some of this information, let me know. I really feel badly for those of you who have been so utterly frustrated trying to get your cameras repaired.

I'm not an attorney and don't know if this is a viable approach. However, unless corporate customer service replaces your defective camera with new ones, you may have no other recourse. I hold out little hope that Nikon repair service will resolve this issue and some of you may be coming to the end of your warranty period soon. A letter from an attorney will get attention very quickly.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

I'm not sure if this is the right approach - adversarial legal action with a company such as Nikon, on issues such as these, is unlikely to result in the outcome for which you are hoping - although I am not sure what that is! Normally it is only the attorneys that benefit to any significant degree.

Working with Nikon, one to one, at the appropriate point of contact, is problably likely to be more fruitful.

I, for one, have done that, and so far I am satisfied at the outcome. Patience is the virtue in matters such as this.

Most people won't be coming to the end of their warranty period for another 4-6 months or so. Patience!

Chris

When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence.
- Ansel Adams

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

May I ask you about the outcome of your situation?

I can see patience to be easier to have when you actually are working with another party on a resolution of an issue. But it seems that in a lot of cases there is no resolution and another party makes a lot of effort to avoid a resolution.

But I do agree - in this real world patience now is the only way to deal with the company such as Nikon on this matter.

Alex
http://www.yermakov.net

Not quite sure what you mean by "another party", but I dealt directly with Nikon customer service, met with the techs at the new service center in LA, Wilshire Blvd, and they "adjusted" my D800, so that, at least for now, without extensive re-focus evaluation, things seem fine. I'm kinda tired of shooting test targets to test edge focusing issues and am more concerned with real-life performance. I also gave them my 24-70 to "mate". Both came back within 8 days (UPS next day) apparently fine - as I say, I havn't done more Focal and FocusTune testing, but it seems to me, from field shooting, focus performance is acceptable and wide open, with f/2.8 lenses, I don't see any issues.

One can test to death and find fault with anything - but so far things appear to be better.

Chris

When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence.
- Ansel Adams

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Chris,

By 'other party' I meant Nikon. Unfortunately in my experience there was no real 'working together to fix the issue'. It was more of 'we did something, now it's all good and we don't really want to discuss this further or provide a proof of our results to you' situation. But as I said - the patience is the only way to deal with this now.

As for being tired of shooting the targets. I understand you. However if one has to have a proof of camera either working or not, one has to spend time on targets. It's good to hear that your camera seems to be working good (even if I understood you correctly, you didn't retest the camera yet). Hopefully there are many more cases like yours.

Alex
http://www.yermakov.net

Chris,

The outcome you are asking about (post #49) is a brand new camera body or a repaired one that works. I should have mentioned in my previous post (#48) that assuming tech support and dealing with customer service results in non-satisfaction (a camera that works), then what other recourse is there but a legal one?

Judging from other posts in this forum, you seem to be the exception rather than the rule when it comes to fixing/repairing the D800/E focus issue. And I'm glad you are happy with your camera.

Just out of curiousty, what tests did you do to reach satisfaction with the repairs made?

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

Initially I shot a few test photos from about 6 feet of my dog's muzzle, obliquely - focus and DOF was spot on to my eye - this with my Sigma 50mm and Nikkor 24-70. It's a good target because of the hair and fur patterns. So I was quite happy.

I have since repeated the same tests using Focal which I had done prior to service. Though not perfect (what test ever is, and what camera ever is!!), there is a noticeable improvement - take a look at the Focal report summary. What it shows to me is that the overall focus performance is pretty even across all the focus points - clearly the centre groupings have a slightly higher QOF as would be expected, but the variation left to right, top to bottom etc, is really quite small. So, that's the improvement I noticed. Though clearly, as has been repeated here by me and others, test conditions have a huge impact on results - lighting, distance to target, focal length etc., so the results should never be taken as gospel - but it seems to me that my D800 has headed in the right direction!

Only some prolonged actually shooting in field conditions will finally reveal if the AF system works as it should - or at least acceptlably for me.

So, that's basis for my remarks following the adjustment by Nikon, LA.

Chris

When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence.
- Ansel Adams

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

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Well, these results (both FoCal and your own test shots of your dog) clearly show that in this case Nikon has managed to fix the issue.

I don't think many people would expect ideal operation since we live in a real world, but having less than average performance is definitely disturbing.

However you mentioned that Nikon has adjusted your 24-70 to work with the camera. While this is good, I wonder if other lenses perform relatively well with the camera now. Did you try any other lens to see how focusing works after the adjustments? In my case even 70-200 @2.8 shows the softness of one sensor group (in my case center sensor is very soft after the adjustments).

I would find it alarming if each and all lenses need to be "mated" to a particular camera using Nikon's service as oppose user-driven AF fine tune operations.

Alex
http://www.yermakov.net

if/when the camera is properly configured, I would expect all your lens to work well.
Mine do.
Over the years, I have only had three bad Nikkors and one camera body.
The D300 was returned as defective, the 18-200, 24-85, and 70-200 lens were fixed.
None of the lens need AF fine tuning.
The 70-200 was back focusing and the other two came apart at the barrel.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Roger, thank you for sharing.

That's what I would expect from lenses and bodies. One would expect quality control at the manufacturer to ensure that multi-thousand dollar instruments are within some range of precision.

But it seems that for Chris the magic happened when Nikon worked on both the body and the lens. Or maybe it was just a coincidence?

Alex
http://www.yermakov.net

"Mated" may have been the wrong word, as I asked Nikon to check the lens on the camera once they had adjusted the D800, and to clean the lens - I believe they do their testing on a 50mm lens (which by the way was the focal length I chose with my 24-70mm for my FoCal tests).

No, I haven't run FoCal on the 50mm yet, as to my eye, the results were fine (once I had dialled in +7 after my "dog" testing) - so I am not concerned that Nikon may have "set-up" the camera for one lens. My understanding is that if the camera is aligned correctly, with its AF system working within spec, than any anomalies would primarily relate to the lens, hence the ability to fine tune.

But therein also lies the catch - fine-tuning zoom lenses can be counterproductive, as different focal lengths may yield different AF tune numbers. Some advise tuning the lens for the focal length you normally use - but that kinda defeats the point of a zoom lens in my view - if I tended always to use a given FL then I would be using a Prime!! So, it's a bit of a Catch 22. My rule of thumb is to try and nail the exposure to get my required DOF - if I don't get it consistently then I would re-examine my AF-Fine tune settings for those conditions, and/or check the lens.

I will eventually put all my lenses through FoCal (or FocusTune), but right now I'd like to focus on photographing life again!

Chris

When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence.
- Ansel Adams

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Where did everybody go???


What? No posts in over three weeks!!! Does that mean all of the folks out there have had their D800 focus problems resolved? Even worse, have all of you given up? Well, I hope it is the former. I sent my D800 to Melville two weeks ago and they are working on it. Based upon these posts, I have no confidence that it will come back fixed. I do hope that the lack of posts recently is an indication that Nikon has finally fixed these cameras. Has anyone successfully gotten Nikon to replace their camera? If mine comes back without a proper repair, I plan to demand a new camera and dispense with all of the shenanigans and multiple returns to Melville that so many of you have endured.

Let me know if you are now happy campers.

BTW, this is my first post as a new member.

Mark

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

I just gave up & could not waste anymore time thinking about it. I am still following the issue and wish you a happy ending!


Art is the only way to run away without leaving home.



www.TinkersRealm.com

If Nikon, say, gave you a "new" camera, I wonder what the chances are the one they gave you would not be a refurbed one, adjusted by them in the same way as they adjust those sent in for repair. That, of couerse, may, or may not, be just fine if they have the problem solved from a repar point of view!

Chris

When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence.
- Ansel Adams

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Good Point & that makes the most sense!


Art is the only way to run away without leaving home.



www.TinkersRealm.com

I sent in a camera (not a D800) that they could not fix
(probably parts backorder) and they sent me a replacement camera.
It was not "new" but did work perfectly.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

I sent in a lens for warranty repair two years ago and the lens that came back had a different serial number than the one I sent in. When I called Nikon about the change, they said that happens sometimes because they have to change the part that contains the serial number. I am still not sure I believe that story, but the lens worked great....it just no longer matched my purchase documentation.

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 70-200, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

I finally decided to send my D800 back into Melville for service. I used the attached FoCal report to show the issue.

I sent the body in about 2 weeks ago and service site shows that it is currently "In Shop". Hopefully the second time will be the charm.... I will send it back in, if, it does not come back close to your repair!


Paul

"life is a lesson, you learn it when you're through" f. durst

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

I just received my D800 back from Melville... Ill put it through a round of FoCal testing before the weekend and post the results here.


Paul

"life is a lesson, you learn it when you're through" f. durst

Good luck with it, Paul. You've been through a lot of aggravation and disappointment. It should not be that way with a $3000 camera. I hope this is the fix you've been waiting for and deserve.

Nick (Roxbury, Connecticut Nikonian)

I did some quick testing last night... I am calling Nikon this morning to have it sent back... Here are the results, not much better than when I sent it in the last time (you can check one of my posts above for FoCal test of two weeks ago).



Paul

"life is a lesson, you learn it when you're through" f. durst

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

just for the record - I had a left & right focus issue, took the camera to Nikon, Toronto, and received it back through the mail, so poorly packaged that I took pictures and complained (loose in a box with only one layer of plastic (popped bubble wrap) around it and 3 sheets of fish & chips wrapping paper. The box had a small dent too. Worse, when I tested the focus, it was un-usable - apart from the far left, which was mediocre, 49 of the focus points were out of focus and the centre one was the worst. I took it back to them, demanding a replacement. Within a few hours, they replaced my camera. FANtastic.
I must say, apart from the fact that they replaced the camera with a brand new one, the service was terrible. They deliberately avoid communication, are obviously unable to fix this problem and its a disgrace that they don't replace ALL the faulty cameras. It obvious, once they fail to repair a camera, that that camera has a factory defect that cannot be repaired. Good luck to everyone with the problem, persist and demand a functioning replacement. Stand together if needed.