I've tried several times to explain to Nikon the error in their logic but no one seems to care. Here's what happened - a large number of the first units to ship went to the same 5 people. Those 5 people then began price gouging the (falsely) limited supply on dBay. Once the precedent was set that you could make 1-2K per unit everybody and his brother went out and ordered 'a few extra' thinking they'd make enough money selling a couple to pay for theirs. Unfortunately what is going to happen is a combination of a few things; the same 5 guys who bought up the first batch have bought up the next round as well and will continue to play eBay keep away, the third shipment will go to jerks who think they're smart and ordered several extras with the intention of making a few bucks and/or (what I did) hedge your bet and pre-order from 6 different places. I only need one and after the first one ships I'm canceling the other 5 orders - but on paper right now there are six cameras 'sold' when it's really only one. In the end, Nikon is going to realize what they should have done was had a one per customer policy until the pre-orders were filled (this would have stopped the scalping and the excessive pre-ordering) and/or they should have sold the first few batches themselves (or through their dealers) on eBay. I don't mind paying a premium for it if that's what the market demands but under no circumstances am I going to reward the scummy behavior of creating a false shortage to jack the price.

So to sum up - there were enough cameras in the first round to cover the demand but the middleman scum have created a false shortage. The morons who rewarded the behavior are responsible for those same dbags pre-ordering all of the second batch to resell as well. DP's like me who just need one to actually use are forced to place many orders to get one camera exacerbating the problem. At the end of the day, Nikon is going to massively overproduce the D800 to meet demand for a market that doesn't really exist. In three months they're going to end up with a bunch of expensive product languishing on shelves when the self-imposed dealers return the cameras they couldn't sell at a profit - and after guys like me cancel the extra orders we never should have had to place to begin with.

Nikon's sales/marketing team is truly perplexing. The level to which they've mismanaged who got the first cameras is also unbelievable. For instance - why is there some wedding photographer in Nebraska with 3 D800's who is basically a glorified hobbyist and scalper selling them for 5K each on craigslist (I'm talking to you Brad) when there are several DP's in LA/NY who shoot broadcast television, features and music videos all going into production this month who will be forced to shoot on the 5D (read; me) because B&H sold 25 D800's to one person? It takes time and a touch of pioneering before an industry will accept a new camera. You get your product in the hands of the guy/girl who's gonna shoot a feature or an episode of House with it and make it an industry staple - not have it languishing on eBay so some fat ass in Kansas can make his rent holding your product hostage.

No I do not have a problem with capitalism and no I do not think I'm better than anyone else - but I DO think that a company like Nikon should be looking out for their best interests rather than let bottom feeders destroy their bottom line by modifying reality for money.

Looks like I was right. There are already a glut of new cameras for sale on eBay being sold by the same dbags responsible for the last glut of overpriced D800's for sale on eBay. There are also several US sellers with multiple cameras for sale again. This almost makes me mad enough to swear off Nikon for life.

I see your point.
What would happen if no one bought the cameras on ebay? Are folks buying off ebay? No warranty and 25-30% over MSRP.

I certainly did not and will not and am still waiting. Its like paying pirates the ransom they want; it will perpetuate the problem.


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>Looks like I was right. There are already a glut of new
>cameras for sale on eBay being sold by the same dbags
>responsible for the last glut of overpriced D800's for sale on
>eBay. There are also several US sellers with multiple cameras
>for sale again. This almost makes me mad enough to swear off
>Nikon for life.

I don't see how it is Nikon's problem.

The cameras for sale on eBay are probably gray market coming into the US without Nikon's knowledge or approval. Incidentally, watch out. These guys have been known to ship a counterfeit US Waranty card with gray market cameras.

Nikon did limit the sale of multiple cameras from a single distributer to a single individual or company. Even NPS members were limited.

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

Some of the rental companies have them in stock so one only needs to shoot with a 5d if they want to.
The only change I see is the emphasis on small locally owned stores getting stock before the massive internet sales sites. That is a good thing and distributes the cameras more fairly around each region.
The problem that IS Nikon's fault is producing a camera at a reasonable price that hits so many hot buttons of so many types of shooters that their 30,000/month production capacity is dwarfed by demand. People who would not normally be Nikon pro body buyers are joining the fray, even dominating it so unless Nikon scraps the plan to use a valuable production line that is scheduled to build one last run of D700's, the distribution channel will be permanently back-ordered with a million people scrambling for the 360,000 they can build in the next 12 months.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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There has got to be something wrong with you if you go and buy a $3300 camera for $5000 on ebay .... who on earth needs a D800 that desperately that they can afford an extra $1700 on a camera ?????

The only reason why these guys are able to make a killing on the D800 is because there is morons out there with TOO MUCH money in their pockets that apparently will die if they dont get their hands on a D800 right away and cant wait the 4 weeks once they order one.

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Nikon send a limited supply to each Nikon dealerships over the world, those dealerships sold those cameras either to NPS members or sold on a first come first serve basis ! .... looks to me like the majority of dealerships had a list of pre orders and it was giving to who ever was first on the list.

I do not see how this is Nikons fault, its up to the distributor who he was selling the D800's to, Nikon did not have a say in who gets it first and who dont.

I had my name on the pre order list the moment my local dealer opened his doors the morning after the D800 was announced, I was the first one on the list.
When the dealership received their first order of D800's they only received ONE D800, I was first on the list so I got it, the rest had to wait till the next order came in.

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Got word that mine will ship today so the backorder may be falling. I'm not NPS and placed this order a few weeks ago with Murphy's KY.

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Congrats Stephanie. You might be getting the only camera that shipped this week and didn't go immediately on eBay.

I'd rent one for the shoots I have coming up but after I got done paying rental costs it'd be cheaper just to pay one of the dbags on eBay the ransom they're demanding. Seriously Nikon, what are you doing? I'm shooting a proof of concept for a network next week. I ordered cameras from 6 different dealers over a month ago - I'm empty handed but there's one guy on eBay with 15 of them. Looks like Canon is about to have another feather placed in their cap.

One just sold on ebay for 5100 from Bromfield Camera in Boston.
Bromfield has been in business since forever, even they cant resist
making a huge profit.
So it's not just the "average" guy who is trying to make a buck.
Established dealers are scalping these too.

Bob

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Dealers selling stock on eBay is just wrong. These dealers must have preorders. If my dealer was selling on eBay while I waited I don't think they would be my dealer any longer. Very short term approach by those dealers.

Did you specify the hardware you were going to use in the contract? Wasn't is a bit risky to put all the emphasis on a camera that was not in stock yet, although in much higher levels of availability than many prior higher end cameras? Why not use the gear that you used on prior productions which probably was the basis on which the network decided to contract with you?
I am just at a loss as to why it is Nikon's fault, when they have 10s of thousands of them out there and most NPS members have had their for a while. People who had an established need for new models, NPS members, have had little problem getting D800's. When the D3 came out it was a lot more scarce than the D800, and Nikon even required usage information of end users to plan distribution. The only differences between this release and those in the past is that 10s of thousand have been put into the field quickly plus the unprecedented demand for a pro level camera.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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What a mess...just for spite, I'd never pay the gougers on eBay.

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>I'm shooting a proof of concept for
>a network next week. I ordered cameras from 6 different
>dealers over a month ago - I'm empty handed but there's one
>guy on eBay with 15 of them. Looks like Canon is about to have
>another feather placed in their cap.
Nikon sold all of their first production run before it even shipped, and they are selling their next run faster than they can build it. That sounds like a feather in Nikon's cap to me.
I went to look at your profile to see what experience you have and what equipment you are using, but your entire profile is blank.
You are obviously not an NPS member or you would have your camera already. Why are you not an NPS member?
Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

I ordered cameras from 6 different
>dealers over a month ago - I'm empty handed but there's one
>guy on eBay with 15 of them. Looks like Canon is about to have
>another feather placed in their cap.


I'm just about as anxious as anyone to get either the D4 or the D800 I ordered but I've only ordered what I intend to buy. With you ordering 6 cameras from 6 different dealers that suggests that you will likely purchase the first one and cancel the other 5 you committed to buy. I think that the sellers on ebay did at least honor the committment they made to Nikon or their retailer to purchase what they ordered.
Maybe you are within your rights to cancel the extra 5 cameras you ordered without intending to purchase but I don't think you should pass judgement on the ebay sellers. Or maybe I've got it figured wrong and you told the retailers that you would take their camera if they were the first ones to deliver it to you.

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Not when dealers sell on eBay ... I know for a fact there are at least three legitimate Nikon dealers that put equipment on EBay.
___________________________________________________________

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. - A. Einstein

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I don't see how this is Nikon's fault or why all the rage. I'm shooting a concert next week. Haven't received my D800 yet either. So I'll just use the same camera that's been serving me well the last few years. It hasn't magically started crapping out because a new body is shipping. To be honest, even if my D800 came in today, I doubt very seriously that I would use it next week since I would not have a lot of experience with it by the time of that shoot.

There are a lot of things going on in the world to suffer stress from. Not getting my hands on a new camera body when I already have tools in hand is not one of them.

I gotta be honest, I have no idea where you guys got contracts, rage or magically failing cameras from. I also don't know why you wouldn't use it immediately. It's a camera. You've used one before right? People rent cameras they've never used before to shoot things every day.

All I'm saying is I could use the D800 for high profile projects right now in lieu of my Canon gear helping Nikon sell cameras down the line. Here's how it works; nobody wants to use anything new in this town until a hundred other people have done it first, and done it well. I'm not afraid of new technology, the delivery requirements only state sensor size and I'm willing to try something new. I get asked at least once a week 'what did you shoot that on?'. Guess what I'm not saying next month? Right now Nikon is losing hundreds of hours of content and a delay in potential industry converts who fear change. It's often not even the DP who decides, it's the production company - and the guy who makes that decision usually only does so because somebody else can say 'look what they did with it on House, or the X-Men, or Iron Man, or this indie feature, or this music video' etc.

The only people gaining anything out of this right now are the scalpers and Nikon is the one who is going to end up with a warehouse full of bodies they can't sell when the crazy is over (yes, it sounds unrealistic now but the production numbers they're aiming for are completely false). I'm not even suggesting they show favoritism, just enforce a one per policy to shake out the con men and get their cameras in the hands of the people who actually want to use them.

I have been keeping an eye on the number of D800's for sale on ebay for a few weeks now, there used to be around 4-6 D800's, but looking today there are over 20. So it looks like people are getting more and just throwing them up on ebay, assuming these are not gray market cameras. This means they will not be getting 4500 to 5000 for a D800.

I am hoping that these dealers that have decided to sell on ebay will change their mind when they can't get a $1000 upcharge.

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This is nobody's fault but the morons paying an absurd premium to get an in-demand camera a month earlier.
>I have been keeping an eye on the number of D800's for sale
>on ebay for a few weeks now, there used to be around 4-6
>D800's, but looking today there are over 20.

Hopefully a supply glut on ebay will very quickly reduce the incentive to flip these.


Larry - a Bay Area Nikonian
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Anyone who buys a camera or any desirable item, on eBay probably deserves to be taken. eBay is probably the least secure way to sell anything and I avoid it.
I still fail to see how the video project, a proof of concept that no one will see will generate more sales when 100% of those built are already spoken for. Feathers in caps right now sure do not go to Canon, their 5DIII suffers from the same artifacts and banding that the prior models did. The heavy NR ruins high ISO image detail, and worst of all, it can't be turned off. None of my Canon shooting friends with 5DII's are very impressed with the new model and will not be upgrading but they are as anxious for me to bring back a D800 as I am. I am in London now, and will be back in California tomorrow night to start a search.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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I haven't yet decided whether to get the D800 or the D4. I would rather wait for others to use for a few months while the backlog dwindle down and to report any problems related to firmware or hardware. I read how Canon's new Mark 3 has a serious problem with light leakage from the LCD that affects the metering system. Canon has supposedly suspended production until a solution can be found.

I'm in no rush and will continue to use my D700 while I wait.

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This morning, there are 42 D800 on ebay for sale. Look luck with jacking up the price, DB's!!!

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Wow this is the best one yet !!!

This is what a guy wrote on his ebay ad were he is trying to sell a D800 for $5200 US plus $98 for shipping.

Attention!

It takes approximately two months until I order this camera and can send it out because Nikon D800 is very popular item.


.......... So this guy is selling a D800 that he has not even received yet !!

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>This morning, there are 42 D800 on ebay for sale. Look luck
>with jacking up the price, DB's!!!

There's more than that. Several of those guys have listing stating they 'have 3 more if you're interested' and there are a few multiple listings. One authorized dealer has 3 800's and 2 800E's listed. I wonder if the people waiting patiently in his pre-order queue know.

PS, I told you so

Excuse me, but who really thinks that someone who puts an ad on eBay REALLY has the product? I have this really nice bridge for sale. Does that mean that I can deliver? I'm skeptical about all this conspiracy theory about false shortages. Does anyone really think that Nikon would be shorting its biggest vendors, like B&H, so that they could supply a bunch of pirates? Reality check time, friends.

Creating images the new-fashioned way!

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>Excuse me, but who really thinks that someone who puts an ad
>on eBay REALLY has the product? I have this really nice bridge
>for sale. Does that mean that I can deliver?

Yes. That's how the website works. If you don't get what you paid for, they give you your money back. Also, you can't deliver a bridge.

>I'm skeptical
>about all this conspiracy theory about false shortages. Does
>anyone really think that Nikon would be shorting its biggest
>vendors, like B&H, so that they could supply a bunch of
>pirates?

I would be skeptical too about something nobody said.

>Reality check time, friends.

Who says this?

wfmcgrath3, you and the guy from St. Petersburg could benefit from some reading and comprehension practice. It's clear you never read more than the title of the thread before you responded with outrage. Your responses are perplexing. It's like we're all having a different conversation and one of you just randomly decides to yell out 'waffles!' - yet somehow you manage to make it come across as arrogant, nasty and condescending.

I too wait for the D800 , with only one order at B&H . The last email from them seemed like a fog the mirror check . Customer service review ? I never called or emailed them since the order . Maybe a check to see if I would reply .


No hurry for my delivery ....... I just feel stupid I strayed from my buying used camera gear routine . I will never buy a pre-order anything ever again .

As far as ebay ,,,, whatever the market will bear . You can't worry about things you can't change .

Hans K.

My Gallery

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There are 53 of them for sale on eBay now. Most with no bids. I hate to say I told you so.

>There are 53 of them for sale on eBay now. Most with no bids.

I´m sure it remains in such a way

Gerold - Nikonian in East Frisia
Eala Freya Fresena

Read the thread OK, a few notes.

MK3 Canon as noted by the guy from SPB Russia, does not clean clock on the D800, the DR is better with the new Nikon and video also is sharper, so 36MP's brings something to the table.

The D800 has a bit more noise in low light details which will be addressed quite well (as in removed) with the new AE plug-in from Dark Energy.

I have had both on order with deposit, at a local chain. I never buy squat on E-bay, why? If a store has what I need, the resources are tactile, and can be returned if not up to snuff, so personally, who cares what e-bay is doing?

They await, a D4 and the D800, my sales guy and the manager are cool while I finish with my bank for the additional expense for each. I was not first in line, but was in the first few, both bodies showed up around the beginning and second week of the month.

My DP pal who returned from a month's shoot using an Epic, is not impressed with the AJA 2.5K body, and is after me to get his hands on my D800 before his next EU stint on the RED. (The staff photographer on that tour has the MK3, DP is not impressed)

His take, and no implied snide or snark is that Nikon because of the 4.2.2 out, has leap frogged Canon for the dual content shooter (HDslr stills/video).

I ran a crew for a concert two weeks ago, 2-D7K's, 1-MK2, 1T2i and an HDV Canon.

First impressions on Cineform transfers, the DR on the D7K is better than the MK2, although the 21MP's does make a difference in "look" but flesh tones on the Nikon are more natural.

3rd party Canon online test drives, 2-VS-3 and D800 for video, show the MK2 as sufficient and close enough to the MK3 to stay with the 2. In that thread, the D800 has better sharpness and DR in normal ranges.

I think jumping in with both feet here in the forums is great, hopefully, to everyone's benefit and BTW, the guy in Russia, is one of the more astute and sometimes cryptic contributors. His name is Stan.

Good luck with your craft, and jumping ship, or staying on board.

Hardly Nikon's fault, if I can get one of each in Los Angeles by showing up in February/March and putting down a deposit.

Thanks,

Rob

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Looking at ebay this morning - there are a bunch for sale at "buy now" prices which are more than $4,000. The ones that are open for bid are not outrageously high. Most bids are in the $3,500 range which is about right for a hot camera that you can't find. Of course, it's impossible to say whether the "buy now" ones are even selling. Just because you post an outrageous price doesn't mean someone is going to pay it.

I seriously doubt that there is a serious "scumbag middleman" problem. Nikon doesn't sell to them and there aren't enough D800s floating around free to make much of an impact in the middleman business.

Jim

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hey everybody, is TheRedMenance still around? I tried to check his/her profile and it is disabled etc. Oh, well it did start some more traffic
on our site.

Virge

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>hey everybody, is TheRedMenance still around? I tried to
>check his/her profile and it is disabled etc. Oh, well it did
>start some more traffic
>on our site.


hahaha...another troll bites the dust.

Keith
North Carolina
www.greatbigshots.com

Here: http://jgriffinricker.com/

He's in the Hollywood cadre.

Seems this site is parked, not unlike many in town who have a business card aspect on the web, while being too busy to maintain content based presence. That's a legitimate older school ethos.

He likely has not the patience to dabble with forums, perhaps, we shall never know now will we?

I expect to see his name in HD Video Pro now, exclaiming his distaste or passion for for (brand) and how it's kept his career from mushrooming, and or how it's made him once again a household name, and that he's the next Shane Hurlbut...

Shane just tweeted that Red Menace taught him everything he knows about HD enabled DSLR's.

RM

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