Have you been on Amazon.com lately and read the reviews about the D800E?

Eight out of 16 reviewers give it less than a five star rating and 1/4 of them rate it less than a three stars.

What gives?

The D800 reviews are a little better, but not stellar.

Are we too busy drinking our own bath water here on Nikonians while others are suffering with the D800 and D800E?

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

Larry,

As I look at the ratings, the D800E averages 4.5 stars out of five. Eight of 16 give it five stars. I think the D800E buyers are VERY discriminating and critical buyers, as one would expect.

The D800 getting an average of 4 stars, 76 out of 114 giving it a five star rating. Again, I think the focus issues have certainly created some cause for doubt. I don't think the ratings are unrealistic. But, if you have a good copy, it is definitely a five star rating!

Larry Miller, Annapolis, MD
D700/D800
http://www.pbase.com/lmmiller9
http://lmmillerphotography.smugmug.com/

There is no doubt in my mind of the quality of the imaging sensor in this camera.

I'm not a pro but, I've gotten some absolutely stunning images from it, and I've seen some amazing work online as well. I made a 20x30 print the other day and I was very pleased with the results. Shadow detail is amazing. Prints actually don't do the sensor justice though because of the lower contrast ratio of a print.

That said, I used to shoot a lot of rock concert type environments with my D200 and D300. Typically you shoot this stuff at ISO 1600 and above and it's all wide open. Otherwise, you just can't stop action. I would not use my camera in it's current state for this. I would take the D300 and leave the D800 in the bag. It's unfortunate but true.

I know others have been shooting sports and action with no issues - that's great. But if I want to compose something in the left side of the frame (espeically far left), focus and recompose with the center is NOT gonna cut it wide open. The DoF is too shallow. The thing is, people say "oh you can't expect that kind of performance from the peripheral AF sensors." These sensors are not even outside of the DX frame! They worked perfectly on my D300.

Here's an overlay I created of the D300 sensors on the D800 frame. These were screen captures from the manual, I resized the D300 frame down to fit in the DX border of the D800.

--
RL

Visit my Nikonians gallery and my Flickr page.

I also think that a bunch of people jumped into buying a D800 or D800e thinking it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, without having the ability to use it properly. I suspect many of these were not all that familiar with DSLR's use.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

I would agree with this as many people that are new to DSLR's see the "36mp" and I got to have it because the more mp I have the better camera it must be.... When as many on this site know that the reason for higher mp count is for larger prints or cropping more..... I got mine for the cropping aspect and may use the ability to print large photos one day soon.

Chris

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You forgot one important thing. Very low noise because of the higher resolution. In order to see noise you have to zoom in to at least 100% and at 100% your picture is the wall size already. So no matter what while looking at wall size picture you have to stand few yards away and don't see noise. So noise is there but not really visible.
I can set my camera at 3200 or higher ISO, get higher shutter speed and never worry about it unlike with my Canon 5D2 or 7D. Especially 7D. 5D3 is no better either. There are other advantages too but not in the scope of this discussion.

Well I posted an early review on Amazon. It still reflects my perspective. I've also just posted some sample images.

Amazon is largely unregulated, so I'm sure you have plenty of trolls making posts. I saw one post that rated his previous consumer Nikon camera with 1 star.

The focus issue is valid. But in reality it affects one sensor out of 51. Still - it is valid.

Many of the responses are from people who had DX cameras. Depth of field is a big issue coming from DX and may be confused with focus.

Some of the reviews are clearly related to issues with Nikon service.

Take a look at the reviews on the D7000. It's about the same - heavy criticism from a small number of vocal posts. If someone can't take a good photo, the first thing they do is blame the camera.

Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
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>If someone can't take a good photo, the first thing they do is
>blame the camera.
>
Eric, You are destroying my dillusions about my photographic skills and my Nikon equipment

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

LOL

Sorry Mick - I just got a really good camera.

Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
My Gallery
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Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

I saw your post just after it went live. I have not looked at your update with images.

I just posted my own review. Hopefully, people who really are good candidates for the D800 and D800E will see my review in contrast with the unhappy shooters.

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

Nice review.

You are one of relatively few people that has owned and tested both a D800 and D800E. You're also one of relatively few who has gone through the repair process and seen the result.

Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
My Gallery
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Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

Notin like being a pioneer! Still trying to reach those arrows in my back. Wife is no help. She just shakes her head.

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

Larry:

It is a great review at Amazon. You have answered my question of other thread completely there.

Thanks again....

www.hitoshiujiie.com/photography.html

A picture is worth a thousand words.

The shot below was taken with one of my Es in my backyard. Dragon flies cruise over the water in a pattern that almost repeats...enough so that you can setup on a tripod and shoot them with a little panning. Every time I get a new camera I go out and repeat my dragon fly shots to see how much the technology has improved. I started with a D300 three years ago...and now a D800E. I was going to try it with a D800 but I sold it before I got time to shoot the critters. Too bad. It would be a good comparison.

Anyway, this is the original shot with a 200-400mm at 400mm, f6.3, 1/4000s and ISO 800 with no processing:



And the following is my cropped final image:



and that is why I like a D800E. This can be printed up to an 8x10 inch at 300 dpi without using any special fractal printing software. Try that with any other camera body and you will not see the fine wing web details and the nose feeler.

This is what the Amazon guys who gave up on the machine missed out on. Too bad.

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

Wow - incredible detail!

That's the kind of jaw-dropping performance I've seen as well. No dragonflies - but my bird photography the first week with the camera showed amazing detail.


Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
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The guy who does my large giclee prints on canvas for gallery displays can print this image at least 20" x 24" using his General Fractals software. He has done that with several of my extreme crop images. He is selling his medium format camera to buy a D800E. Some of his medium format prints are 4 ft x 6 ft. He plans to use the D800E to do the same kind of landscape shooting.

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

Wow, indeed!

Thanks for posting that, Larry

Brian
Welsh Nikonian
Check out the Nikonians Team pages

Since the issue was raised about comparing the D800 to the D700 I was tempted to post a photo I took of my granddaughter's ballet recital, taken from way in the back of a very large auditorium and then cropped to just show her. The result is something that my D700 could not possibly achieve. But, this illustrates it even better.

Amazing photo and demonstration of the capability of this camera.

Larry Miller, Annapolis, MD
D700/D800
http://www.pbase.com/lmmiller9
http://lmmillerphotography.smugmug.com/

Wow impressive larry.... I agree they are missing out !

Interesting excerpts from a 2 star Amazon review (not mine).

"I own both d700 and d800e. I printed ... landscape photos at 20x30 (with exact same settings and controlled environment) and ... a difference (between) the d800e or d700 ... is only noticeable with prints larger than 24x36.

"I also shoot Weddings and this camera is definitely not suitable for Wedding Photographers ... Moire is definitely there and almost impossible to get rid of in post-process.

" If you are a landscape photographer and ... want to print Huge 30x40 prints ... be cautious of the Mirror slap which may affect the sharpness at slower shutter speeds of 1/250 or less.
... enlarged controlled prints taken with a tripod and show noticeable shake from the mirror at slower shutter even on a tripod!

Gator Bob Santa Fe New Mexico
D700 & SB800 * D800E as soon as Nikon gets its act together
Nikkors: *14-24 * 28-300 * PC-E 85mm *50mm 1.8
Tamron 90mm Macro

I really don't know why someone who does not own a D800 nor a D800E would copy and paste this material into a Nikonians post. I took hundreds of HDR sets with my D800 while on a Nikonians trek to AZ & Utah in May. I did them with mirror up and mirror down. I saw no difference in the results and some of my slowest shutter speeds were in seconds. The guy who wrote that Amazon review either has no tripod or he needs to spend some money and get one.

BTW Bob, Nikon has its act together with the D800E. I have two copies that meet every Nikon published spec. I think you should start considering the purchase of a different camera body that has different specs. I frankly do not believe the D800 nor D800E will change from what is shipping today.

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

I agree larry, I shoot photos for a living. As of now I have owned my D800E for two months. Out of twelve published photos I have made over 10k with my D800E. That is more then I made in four months in 2011 with my Canon. All the BS on this forum that people say the D800 or D800E cant do or photograph is a joke.
If you read this and do not own a D800 or D800E I highly Suggest you rent one first. Take some shots and process the photos in Nikon software or Light room 4 or CS6. Then make your choice. IMO and many other photographers opinion is that The D800 D800E and D4 are buy far the best DSLR cameras out as of right now. Come drink the kool-aid and have fun if you like to shoot great photos

>I really don't know why someone who does not own a D800 nor a
>D800E would copy and paste this material into a Nikonians
>post. BTW Bob, Nikon has its act together with the D800E. I have two
>copies that meet every Nikon published spec. I think you
>should start considering the purchase of a different camera
>body that has different specs. I frankly do not believe the
>D800 nor D800E will change from what is shipping today.

1. Perhaps you Nikon-uber-alles people will be satisfied if the forum imposes new rules: no posts critical of Nikon and no posts unless the poster owns the camera under discussion.
Well, maybe we first should consult the D800/E owners who are still unsuccessfully trying to get Nikon to fix or replace their flawed cameras.

2. Thank you for telling me not to buy a D800/E. I really value your thoughtful advice.

Gator Bob Santa Fe New Mexico
D700 & SB800 * D800E as soon as Nikon gets its act together
Nikkors: *14-24 * 28-300 * PC-E 85mm *50mm 1.8
Tamron 90mm Macro

No new rules are required here, Bob. We already have a well-tested set of Terms of Use, designed to enhance everyone's experience of the Community.

I'd ask that you check them out, particularly point 1.2 (about respect and friendliness) and item 6.3(i) (about repeated criticisms of a brand or product).

You've made your point - that you don't like Nikon's handling of the D800 situation and have cancelled your order - and we don't need to be reminded of that fact in multiple threads.

Thank you!

Brian
Welsh Nikonian
Check out the Nikonians Team pages

The Amazon comments that Bob shared are a good example of a very questionable post. No doubt the person who posted that review believed everything he said.

I read that review and there were too many factual inaccuracies to justify comment. While it is possible to create the issues described and quoted, it's a real stretch to base it on the camera rather than on post processing and the photographer.

We don't want to get into discussing the accuracy of a post in another forum by a third party. I think Bob showed a good example of the completely inaccurate reviews you can find on Amazon.

If you look at the D7000 posts, you get the same types of complaints about images that are not sharp. I agree that there are some cases where cameras have AF flaws. But 95% of the claims about AF issues with any camera seem to be related to poor technique and/or lack of knowledge. And it's not just Nikon - Canon get's similar complaints. But virtually every published image you see is coming from these same cameras in skilled hands.


Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
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Onlu had my 800e for a month and am continually blown away by the depth and quality. It's definitely not a point and shoot and i'm guessing that many of the negative posts are from people who expect to just pick it up and start shooting. As with any sophisticated tool, you need to take the time and effort to understand how it works and it's particular way of working. I'm still learning the autofocus and metering systems (2 key elements that can cause bad photos) biases, which work differently than my previous slr - it's not a bad thing just different.

Related to this, Nikon may want to consider resurrecting the roving camera tuneup sessions they used to hold back in the F series days. Held at local camera retailers, nikon techs would clean and calibrate your slr and check for issues. Might be a good way of handling the focusing issues and provide more value to their customers.

You make two excellent points.

Nikon did warn us right from the outset that the 800E is not for everyone. By implication, neither is the 800. Some buyers never will figure out how to use them happily.

As for roving tuneup sessions, that is a great idea ... but based on Nikon's present intransigent position on the flaws, don't hold your breath waiting.

Gator Bob Santa Fe New Mexico
D700 & SB800 * D800E as soon as Nikon gets its act together
Nikkors: *14-24 * 28-300 * PC-E 85mm *50mm 1.8
Tamron 90mm Macro

Great idea on the camera tuneup.

Perhaps some of the Nikon Authorized Service locations would adopt such a program? It does not have to come from Nikon directly, and Authorized Service can perform anything under warranty. The ability to fine tune and adjust cameras for precision beyond normal specs would be a plus. If there are warranty related issues, they could be covered at the same time. For that matter - just the peace of mind to know the camera was examined and tested would provide a lot of relief.


Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
My Gallery
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Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

I imagine you must beleive in what you posted, I happened to make a post just a little bit ago that dispells the "noticeable shake from mirror at slower shutter speeds."


You might buy a D800/E and find out for yourself how outstanding these cameras are.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Speaking of regulated, I am finding the Adorama comments are VERY regulated. I wrote a D800E review yesterday, and hit the post button. Instead of posting, the site had all kinds of questions for me. After I had answered all questions and hit the final button, the site seemed happy. However, when I went to my e-mail system there was a verification message there from Adorama. It hit the auto-reply button and the response seemed happy.

However, the review has not been posted. I guess the Adorama team was not happy with what I said in addition to my five star rating. If they never get back to me with questions and never post my review, then I will have a new calibration of Adorama equipment reviews. Time will tell.

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

Adorama did post my review. Good on 'em.

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

>Have you been on Amazon.com lately and read the reviews about
>the D800E?
>
>Eight out of 16 reviewers give it less than a five star rating
>and 1/4 of them rate it less than a three stars.
>
>What gives?
>
>The D800 reviews are a little better, but not stellar.
>
>Are we too busy drinking our own bath water here on Nikonians
>while others are suffering with the D800 and D800E?

Not in my judgment. What I do know is that I could not be more pleased with my D800E. The D800E makes me want to continue to click the shutter and look to expand opportunities to take more pictures. Why? Successful outcomes in what (subjectively) I envision as a new frontier of photography. That includes movies.

If anyone asked me of my opinion, it would have to be five stars because it exceeds my expectations. Yes, it has a unique fingerprint. But so does a DSLR DX, Leica, Hasselblad or Micro Four Thirds camera.

Interestingly, on the other side of the divide, B & H has a perfect 17 five star reviews on the D800E. Many of the reviewers on B & H are pro's and semi-pro's. One would have to place more credence in those reviews than Amazon. BTW, your dragonfly shot is utterly amazing.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.